Coming to Accept "Different" people in Second Life

[Hymn Celestia]

I was enjoying your "thank you" technique for a while there. 

Come to think of it, it feels like it's something you can say to anything, really.  Even to people asking annoying RL questions.  I have this wonderful mental image of Jeff Goldblum hearing questions he has no intention of answering, saying "Thank you," and just wandering off to do the next thing, and everybody in the room simply accepting it as the way things go.

[HeathcliffMontague]

Happy 58th Love.

[Rick Nightingale]

On a serious (-ish, as always) note, being autistic perhaps gives me a slightly different take on the topic. Almost everyone I've ever encountered, RL and SL, feels very different to me. Of course, it's me who's very much the different one. Figuring out what other people are actually like is difficult. I miss out on practically all the 'social interaction' part... facial expressions (obviously RL only) are a complete mystery to me, and apparently my own are frequently misinterpreted from what I'm actually thinking, or so I'm told. Verbal/written too though; the way people 'play' with each other with words... I can rarely tell if people love or hate each other. It's why I don't get involved much in the forum. You'll rarely find me being cheeky, using sarcasm, etc, in normal conversation simply because I have no clue if or when it's appropriate and if someone uses such things on me, I'm left completely guessing the intent. I've little to no clue. The few times I have tried to use such things (in a way meant to be friendly), I've mostly got it wrong judging from the reactions so I've learned not to try. Even using a nickname or shortened name for someone baffles me, even when others are using one; I never know if it's appropriate for me to.

It might be worth noting that I wasn't diagnosed with autism as a child so I never got any help to learn about it all. Instead I was regularly punished, and caned a good few times, at school for being 'different'. I wasn't badly behaved at all, I just literally had no understanding what was even going on. It's only as a much older adult that I eventually decided there was something wrong with me, after spending a lifetime trying to 'learn' how to be 'normal' and hiding the fact that I was in total confusion all the time. I got good at that last bit, at least. Talk about wearing a mask! I've lived trying to follow a set of instructions for one thing, when I'm something else. The realisation was finally triggered by trying to get a job that I was really excited about, passed all the technical skill tests for first time (which most people, even ones from relevant backgrounds, failed) but eventually failed at during a week-long field exercise on simple, people-related stuff that everyone else just took for granted. Even my inducting officer was confused. I fought with the NHS to see a specialist who easily confirmed autism, but too late for the knowledge to really be of any help to me in life.

As to accepting that people are different then, I really have little choice but I always have accepted it, even as a child long before I knew I was mostly the different one. I recall sitting in a church at about nine years old; my parents were obsessively religious and dragged me along (sometimes literally!) until I was old enough to vote with my feet. The minister was going on about 'sexual deviants' and everyone in the 'audience' was making agreeing noises. By that, he meant anyone not 100% heterosexual and presumably only interested in the missionary position. Even as a 9yo back then, brought up in such an environment and not in any way 'sexually different' myself, I thought it was a load of rubbish and that he had no right to decide how others should or shouldn't live.

So, I don't just 'accept' that people are different, I fully expect it, and enjoy it... to an extent. I say something like that in my profile; I value variety. That doesn't mean I accept (as in, will associate with) anything or anyone though. If anything, I think there is too much acceptance and tolerance of people's differences when their beliefs and behaviours have seriously detrimental effects on others (who don't deserve it), on society, and on the world as a whole. I don't accept that, and don't want anything to do with such people. The qualifier on it all, of course, is that it is all from my opinion of what is acceptable or not, detrimental or not, or deserving or not. The more I see of people though, especially with what is happening in the world right now and how a lot of people are responding (or not!) to it all, the fewer people I find I can accept. I'll never be a hypocrite.

If you live for football (English) and I hate it (I do, for 'reasons'), fine. If you get excited by being hung upside down and pleasured with a giant elephant body part, more power to you. Each to their own. If you're highly opinionated, arrogant, and think you are always right, OK. I might not agree, but that's your character and I'll probably find it more amusing to observe than offensive. But if your way to win is to insult and degrade others rather than win on your merits, that's crossing my line. If you bully others and tell them they should toughen up to take it, screw you. I'll leave the politics out, but there are some that I won't talk to (and think they should be cast into a bottomless pit, quite frankly) because I find their politics so offensive to every decent bone in my body.

9 hours ago, Istelathis said:

Seeing that this is likely the way it has been throughout human history, I still think a zombie outbreak is the best way to handle it all.

While I tend to feel the same, it's always the same type of people who end up coming out on top eventually so it wouldn't change a thing in the long run. The human race needs a few more millennia of evolution to get past the 'I'm the most important person on the planet, screw the rest of you', survival of the most psychopathic phase, if we make it that long.

Edited April 14 by Rick Nightingale

[Love Zhaoying]

42 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said:

On a serious (-ish, as always) note, being autistic perhaps gives me a slightly different take on the topic. Almost everyone I've ever encountered, RL and SL, feels very different to me. Of course, it's me who's very much the different one. Figuring out what other people are actually like is difficult. I miss out on practically all the 'social interaction' part... facial expressions (obviously RL only) are a complete mystery to me, and apparently my own are frequently misinterpreted from what I'm actually thinking, or so I'm told. Verbal/written too though; the way people 'play' with each other with words... I can rarely tell if people love or hate each other. It's why I don't get involved much in the forum. You'll rarely find me being cheeky, using sarcasm, etc, in normal conversation simply because I have no clue if or when it's appropriate and if someone uses such things on me, I'm left completely guessing the intent. I've little to no clue. The few times I have tried to use such things (in a way meant to be friendly), I've mostly got it wrong judging from the reactions so I've learned not to try. Even using a nickname or shortened name for someone baffles me, even when others are using one; I never know if it's appropriate for me to.

It might be worth noting that I wasn't diagnosed with autism as a child so I never got any help to learn about it all. Instead I was regularly punished, and caned a good few times, at school for being 'different'. I wasn't badly behaved at all, I just literally had no understanding what was even going on. It's only as a much older adult that I eventually decided there was something wrong with me, after spending a lifetime trying to 'learn' how to be 'normal' and hiding the fact that I was in total confusion all the time. I got good at that, at least. Talk about wearing a mask! I've lived trying to follow a set of instructions for one thing, when I'm something else. The realisation was finally triggered by trying to get a job that I was really excited about, passed all the technical skill tests for first time (which most people, even ones from relevant backgrounds, failed) but eventually failed at during a week-long field exercise on simple, people-related stuff that everyone else just took for granted. Even my inducting officer was confused. I fought with the NHS to see a specialist who easily confirmed autism, but too late for the knowledge to really be of any help to me in life.

As to accepting that people are different then, I really have little choice but I always have accepted it, even as a child long before I knew I was mostly the different one. I recall sitting in a church at about nine years old; my parents were obsessively religious and dragged me along (sometimes literally!) until I was old enough to vote with my feet. The minister was going on about 'sexual deviants' and everyone in the 'audience' was making agreeing noises. By that, he meant anyone not 100% heterosexual and presumably only interested in the missionary position. Even as a 9yo back then, brought up in such an environment and not in any way 'sexually different' myself, I thought it was a load of rubbish and that he had no right to decide how others should or shouldn't live.

So, I don't just 'accept' that people are different, I fully expect it, and enjoy it... to an extent. I say something like that in my profile; I value variety. That doesn't mean I accept (as in, will associate with) anything or anyone though. If anything, I think there is too much acceptance and tolerance of people's differences when their beliefs and behaviours have seriously detrimental effects on others (who don't deserve it), on society, and on the world as a whole. I don't accept that, and don't want anything to do with such people. The qualifier on it all, of course, is that it is all from my opinion of what is acceptable or not, detrimental or not, or deserving or not. The more I see of people though, especially with what is happening in the world right now and how a lot of people are responding (or not!) to it all, the fewer people I find I can accept. I'll never be a hypocrite.

If you live for football (English) and I hate it (I do, for 'reasons'), fine. If you get excited by being hung upside down and pleasured with a giant elephant body part, more power to you. Each to their own. If you're highly opinionated, arrogant, and think you are always right, OK. I might not agree, but that's your character and I'll probably find it more amusing to observe than offensive. But if your way to win is to insult and degrade others rather than win on your merits, that's crossing my line. If you bully others and tell them they should toughen up to take it, screw you. I'll leave the politics out, but there are some that I won't talk to (and think they should be cast into a bottomless pit, quite frankly) because I find their politics so offensive to every decent bone in my body.

While I tend to feel the same, it's always the same type of people who end up coming out on top eventually so it wouldn't change a thing in the long run. The human race needs a few more millennia of evolution to get past the 'I'm the most important person on the planet, screw the rest of you', survival of the most psychopathic phase, if we make it that long.

This is awesome, thank you for sharing so very much!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I don't think I understand the question very well, but I'm just going to blame my coffee for that one. Everyone who isn't me is different, though. We're all different. So I guess I don't get that part.

As to whether or not I put up with people I don't like in SL (or anywhere, really) - nope. I'm a firm believer in "finding my people" wherever I happen to be, and that philosophy has served me well in every situation I've found myself in. Who those people are - usually the curious, the adventurous, the experimenters, the old souls, the dreamers, the educators, the oddballs, the goofballs, the explorers, the nomads, the inventors, the mad scientists, the tinkerers, the artisans, the ones with impossible ideas and the greatest intentions, the ones who aren't afraid to stand up and out.

Could I spend some of my SL hanging around with people I don't particularly mesh with (pun intended teehee) - sure. Would I - nope. I wouldn't even subject myself to that again in the real world and thankfully, since high school, I haven't had to. No way would I do it virtually.

I may be a bit of a jerk for this, but I'm pretty quick to cut toxic people off. I may or may not have told off a friend and yeeted them off my list for putting their ignorance on full display. Welp! To quote Katt Williams - "You shouldn't have been talking sh..."

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I don't think I understand the question very well, but I'm just going to blame my coffee for that one. Everyone who isn't me is different, though. We're all different. So I guess I don't get that part.

As to whether or not I put up with people I don't like in SL (or anywhere, really) - nope. I'm a firm believer in "finding my people" wherever I happen to be, and that philosophy has served me well in every situation I've found myself in. Who those people are - usually the curious, the adventurous, the experimenters, the old souls, the dreamers, the educators, the oddballs, the goofballs, the explorers, the nomads, the inventors, the mad scientists, the tinkerers, the artisans, the ones with impossible ideas and the greatest intentions, the ones who aren't afraid to stand up and out.

Could I spend some of my SL hanging around with people I don't particularly mesh with (pun intended teehee) - sure. Would I - nope. I wouldn't even subject myself to that again in the real world and thankfully, since high school, I haven't had to. No way would I do it virtually.

I may be a bit of a jerk for this, but I'm pretty quick to cut toxic people off. I may or may not have told off a friend and yeeted them off my list for putting their ignorance on full display. Welp! To quote Katt Williams - "You shouldn't have been talking sh..."

I think you touched on the unspoken, assumed origin of my question topic: sometimes we "don't like someone" and later realize it's more because they are "different", than because their behavior is particularly offensive or egregious. 

[Artorius Constantine]

As some of you may have noticed, I as well, am autistic. Diagnosed with ADHD and a string of hyper-active issues in 5th grade. Back then it was only ADD and the whole spectrum didn't exist yet. You either were or you weren't.

If you think the way I communicate here is bad you should try it in person, or even worse, on the phone.

I am probably the single most aggravating person to ever talk to on the phone.

Because I don't look different, just talk and act differently, most people just assume I'm an ahole.

Some days I can walk up to a crowd and just start babbling about stuff no one there cares about, and some days I can't leave the Yurt due to executive disfunction. I am a hermit, I live 40 miles from town and can go a month or more without ever seeing or talking to another person.

There are a couple reasons I eschew society; some people suck, some people suck really bad, some people are the worst and will spread lies and hatred about you for no reason other than they don't like the way you talk, and I really don't play well with others.

I've made a few friends over the years, people that understand what being neurodivergent is like. People that can ignore the bad times and understand that sometimes I don't mean anything I'm saying and probably don't even realize it's a bad thing to say. My brain simply doesn't make connections the way others do so I am very accepting of others idiosyncrasies.

But I don't get along with most people because they can't understand the way I communicate, so I simply avoid most people, or avoid communicating. Ex. I've been a member of these forums for over 15 years and only posted about 300 times. I've probably deleted as many posts and replies here without posting them because I thought it would irritate people.

Let's put it this way. I joined the SL Reddit and got shadow banned in under 60 days for "Kink shaming" in a post that actually had zero to do with kink shaming. Didn't even mention anything kinky, was asking who made a certain mesh body and got shadow banned. The Moderator simply didn't like the way I communicated so tossed me out under the table for no good reason except she didn't like me. But, I'm used to being treated that way, so I hide in the desert and don't post or interact a lot.

This is actually the only forum I am a member of, I used to post on the "other" place we used to hang out to avoid LL moderation years ago. But otherwise SL and my FB page are my only outlets for human interaction. And I keep my FB friends list very small.

Edited April 14 by Artorius Constantine

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think you touched on the unspoken, assumed origin of my question topic: sometimes we "don't like someone" and later realize it's more because they are "different", than because their behavior is particularly offensive or egregious. 

Thinking back, I can't really recall any situations where this is true for me. Most instances of me actually not liking someone usually results from them being a total *insert non-PG language here*. 

If someone's very different in some way or another, we just won't have a lot in common and lack reason to hang around together. It takes more than that for me to say I don't like someone, and in every instance of that I can think of, there's always a verrrrrry good reason.

[Artorius Constantine]

2 hours ago, Rick Nightingale said:

I never got any help to learn about it all. Instead I was regularly punished, and caned a good few times, at school for being 'different'. I wasn't badly behaved at all, I just literally had no understanding what was even going on.

Dude, it sounds like we are on the same step.

Even after they discovered I had ADD the solution was little yellow pills instead of actual help. That just made me even more hyper-active and hence even more badly behaved. I've known every paddle ever held by every principal of every school I ever attended.

The only thing I learned was to hide in the corner and avoid people so I could avoid interacting and getting in trouble.

[Rick Nightingale]

2 minutes ago, Artorius Constantine said:

Dude, it sounds like we are on the same step.

I've just been thinking how to say the same thing. I could echo your post.

15 minutes ago, Artorius Constantine said:

There are a couple reasons I eschew society; some people suck, some people suck really bad, some people are the worst and will spread lies and hatred about you for no reason other than they don't like the way you talk

That's been my whole experience in life, unfortunately, right up to the present day where our next-door neighbours have run a hate campaign (no exaggeration) against me and my wife for the last 15 years. We never did anything to deserve it, to them or anyone else. Because we don't socialise, all the neighbours ever hear is their lies about us and none of them are the sort to stand up and say anything against the bullies, preferring to side with them rather than risk getting caught in the cross hairs themselves.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Artorius Constantine said:

Let's put it this way. I joined the SL Reddit and got shadow banned in under 60 days for "Kink shaming" in a post that actually had zero to do with kink shaming. Didn't even mention anything kinky, was asking who made a certain mesh body and got shadow banned. The Moderator simply didn't like the way I communicated so tossed me out under the table for no good reason except she didn't like me. But, I'm used to being treated that way, so I hide in the desert and don't post or interact a lot.

The person you are talking about is the same way on this Forum, so I hope that is some tiny comfort that's it is NOT you!

1 hour ago, Artorius Constantine said:

most people just assume I'm an ahole.

Enough random strangers in my neighborhood have called me an ahole in the past year, that I start to question myself. I feel ya there. (I don't get that from most people, just strangers!)

So in these examples, I am the one someone else judges! I wonder if that happens to me in SL a lot - and I don't even know it? (I KNOW what people on the Forum think, they ain't shy about it.)

[Rowan Amore]

First of all...

Secondly, when I first started using the forums regularly, I was confused by you and your posts.  Since then, we've spent a fair amount of time in PM and I've grown quite fond of you.  You still confuse me at times but that's ok.  I enjoyed helping you over a couple of hours when you were updating an alt.  So, YOUR differences I like.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

First of all...

Secondly, when I first started using the forums regularly, I was confused by you and your posts.  Since then, we've spent a fair amount of time in PM and I've grown quite fond of you.  You still confuse me at times but that's ok.  I enjoyed helping you over a couple of hours when you were updating an alt.  So, YOUR differences I like.

 

Thank you for your honesty!

Being understood ain't always easy, and knowing when to "not say what you're thinking" is a lifelong struggle.

I'm glad you accept me despite my many faults!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Thinking back, I can't really recall any situations where this is true for me. Most instances of me actually not liking someone usually results from them being a total *insert non-PG language here*. 

If someone's very different in some way or another, we just won't have a lot in common and lack reason to hang around together. It takes more than that for me to say I don't like someone, and in every instance of that I can think of, there's always a verrrrrry good reason.

Yeah. I actually don't find this particularly complicated most of the time.

Different is, mostly, good. Who would want to spend all their time with people just like me?? I certainly wouldn't want to!

Difference sometimes can mean irritation, or just a lack of connection. Being irritated I can handle, although it may mean I choose not to spend a lot of time with someone: that needn't be judgmental, but rather just a form of self-care. Where the difference means that there isn't enough in common to sustain a relationship, then, well, there isn't one, and that's generally a mutual thing.

Sometimes "difference" manifests itself in ways that can seem socially awkward or even anti-social. I can think of friends who are just a bit cringy in a social situation sometimes. It's pretty rare that that's reason enough on its own for me to avoid someone.

What I cannot handle, and will not tolerate, is someone who is deliberately and consciously nasty, cruel, mean-spirited, or hateful. And usually it's pretty clear, I think, where the "nastiness" is an inadvertent result of awkwardness or or remediable ignorance, and where it is targeted, deliberate, and unrepentant.

But in those cases, it's not "difference" that's the issue: it's toxicity.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Oh! And Happy Birthday, Love!

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah. I actually don't find this particularly complicated most of the time.

Different is, mostly, good. Who would want to spend all their time with people just like me?? I certainly wouldn't want to!

Difference sometimes can mean irritation, or just a lack of connection. Being irritated I can handle, although it may mean I choose not to spend a lot of time with someone: that needn't be judgmental, but rather just a form of self-care. Where the difference means that there isn't enough in common to sustain a relationship, then, well, there isn't one, and that's generally a mutual thing.

Sometimes "difference" manifests itself in ways that can seem socially awkward or even anti-social. I can think of friends who are just a bit cringy in a social situation sometimes. It's pretty rare that that's reason enough on its own for me to avoid someone.

What I cannot handle, and will not tolerate, is someone who is deliberately and consciously nasty, cruel, mean-spirited, or hateful. And usually it's pretty clear, I think, where the "nastiness" is an inadvertent result of awkwardness or or remediable ignorance, and where it is targeted, deliberate, and unrepentant.

But in those cases, it's not "difference" that's the issue: it's toxicity.

That's a very deep and well thought out set of points!

I suppose that I often think in terms of what someone wants "from me", what they insist on discussing (even if it is firmly rooted in RL), whether they insist on "poking" me by making fun of something about me or something we disagree on, etc. 

This is easy to compare to why I may choose to block / ignore someone on the Forums.  So for examples:

If someone insists on asking me a lot of RL questions about my religion without being respectful..

Or if someone wants to poke me about my RL "politics"..

Or if someone disrespects the fact I choose to be a Neko..

Or if someone says insensitive things about the LGBT community..

I tend to assume they know better but are just selfish and entitled to behave however they want, don't care about my feelings etc. While I COULD choose to assume they actually lack empathy (or similar), which would make it "not their fault" technically..

Bringing this to my point in the topic, I suppose that it's possible to have compassion / empathy for such a person in SL, while still recognizing that "they are toxic" and there's nothing wrong with avoiding / ignoring them in SL. "They are different" sure, but I don't have to "suffer that difference" to prove anything.

Edited April 14 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What I cannot handle, and will not tolerate, is someone who is deliberately and consciously nasty, cruel, mean-spirited, or hateful. And usually it's pretty clear, I think, where the "nastiness" is an inadvertent result of awkwardness or or remediable ignorance, and where it is targeted, deliberate, and unrepentant.

Yep! Separate from what I replied in the last post. It's like, "you know meanness when you see it".

[Chery Amore]

I can accept that people are the way they are .. absolutely. It doesn't mean I agree with them or want to give them space in my world or head.
Say someone comes and knocks at my door to give me the "good news". They are probably a basically nice person but I don't believe what they do or at least in the way they do it. I also don't agree with the way they go about spreading that news. Therefore I don't have to invite them in to sit at my table.. it's a waste of time and energy for me. Although I can usually be cordial until they get pushy about how right they are and how wrong I am. That's where I draw the line. I still accept that they are who they are though and usually can wish them best far away from me.
I can accept people, but there needs to be some common ground and often a similar outlook on life for me to let them in and appreciate them. Same holds true for second life.

Edited April 14 by Chery Amore

[Persephone Emerald]

I don't mind that people are different from me. I don't know anyone who's not different from me in some way. I try to avoid people who irritate me inworld or in RL if I can though.

On these forums it's sometimes those I'm fond of who irritate me and conversely sometimes I'm even a little fond of those who irritate me. Sometimes it's good to have a clever "villain" who's willing to say something I agree with, but wouldn't say  myself, or at least not in that way.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What I cannot handle, and will not tolerate, is someone who is deliberately and consciously nasty, cruel, mean-spirited, or hateful. And usually it's pretty clear, I think, where the "nastiness" is an inadvertent result of awkwardness or or remediable ignorance, and where it is targeted, deliberate, and unrepentant.

But in those cases, it's not "difference" that's the issue: it's toxicity.

Agree with everything you said, and this right here in particular. This is my line. I watch how people treat others and if there's even a hint of rudeness, mean-spiritedness, blatant ignorance, bigotry, hate, or unnecessary hostility and attitude, they gotta go. Oh, you don't feel like you need to tip because you're a jerk and not because you received bad service? Oh, you feel that other person is beneath you? Oh, you think jokes that punch down like that are appropriate? Out. Bye.

My closest SL friend still brings up the day I yelled at her for telling a very baaaaad joke. THAT'S NOT FUNNY HERE ARE ALL THE REASONS WHY type vibes, lol. Had I not known her for damn near two decades, I would've sent her butt into orbit over that, too. Just because we're friends doesn't mean I won't snatch that wig off your head when you act up, and I would want any good friend to do the same to me when I mess up, too.

 

29 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is easy to compare to why I may choose to block / ignore someone on the Forums.

Funny thing is I'm so used to shutting people down obnoxious people in real life, I really don't bother too often with using block online or in-world. Perhaps that comes from getting really good at ignoring bullies back in school, but it's really easy for me to just walk away from someone who crosses my line and pretend they don't even exist. I reserve in-world blocks for things like real harassing behavior, which is super rare, and spammy obnoxious objects, which is far more common!

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

spammy obnoxious objects

This is how I see annoying users!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

29 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I suppose that I often think in terms of what someone wants "from me", what they insist on discussing (even if it is firmly rooted in RL), whether they insist on "poking" me by making fun of something about me or something we disagree on, etc. 

This is easy to compare to why I may choose to block / ignore someone on the Forums.  So for examples:

If someone insists on asking me a lot of RL questions about my religion without being respectful..

Or if someone wants to poke me about my RL "politics"..

Or if someone disrespects the fact I choose to be a Neko..

Or if someone says insensitive things about the LGBT community..

I tend to assume they know better but are just selfish and entitled to behave however they want, don't care about my feelings etc. While I COULD choose to assume they actually lack empathy (or similar), which would make it "not their fault" technically..

Bringing this to my point in the topic, I suppose that it's possible to have compassion / empathy for such a person in SL, while still recognizing that "they are toxic" and there's nothing wrong with avoiding / ignoring them in SL. "They are different" sure, but I don't have to "suffer that difference" to prove anything.

As you say, you don't have to "suffer" the difference if it is making you angry, upset, or whatever. There is no moral imperative that insist that we hang out with people who irritate or upset us.

Again, I think that it's usually pretty easy to judge those who "poke" or deliberately provoke us because they are nasty, and those who are doing so without intent, or just to "tease." In the latter case, a simple comment, like, "Could you please not say such things to me: I find them upsetting" is generally enough to stop the behaviour. If it doesn't stop, then that's a pretty sure fire indication that they are being deliberately (and, now, knowingly) unpleasant.

I'll use an example. There's a fairly prolific forum poster here (I'm sure he'll recognize himself if he reads this) who very deliberately posts slightly trashy misogyny -- often in response to something I've said. There is zero question that it's deliberately provocative. BUT my familiarity with him over the years here provides important context: he is "teasing" and doing so in fun. I think he probably IS what I might term a little "sexist," but not obnoxiously so, and I recognize that his provocations are actually, well, "affectionate." And I respond in kind to that, even while groaning inwardly at some of the things he says, because it's clearly not intended to be nasty, but has instead become a kind of friendly banter between us. I like him, oddly enough, in part because he says trashily sexist things that he really only half means: they are part of the way in which we "connect" here. I like him.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

16 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Agree with everything you said, and this right here in particular. This is my line. I watch how people treat others and if there's even a hint of rudeness, mean-spiritedness, blatant ignorance, bigotry, hate, or unnecessary hostility and attitude, they gotta go. Oh, you don't feel like you need to tip because you're a jerk and not because you received bad service? Oh, you feel that other person is beneath you? Oh, you think jokes that punch down like that are appropriate? Out. Bye.

My closest SL friend still brings up the day I yelled at her for telling a very baaaaad joke. THAT'S NOT FUNNY HERE ARE ALL THE REASONS WHY type vibes, lol. Had I not known her for damn near two decades, I would've sent her butt into orbit over that, too. Just because we're friends doesn't mean I won't snatch that wig off your head when you act up, and I would want any good friend to do the same to me when I mess up, too.

Yeah, all of this, especially maybe the last bit.

If I'm wandering around with the bottom of skirt accidentally tucked into my panties, and I'm flashing the street without knowing it, I'd want someone to tell me. Why wouldn't I similarly want to be told that I was upsetting or making someone uncomfortable?

(Not that that has EVER happened to my skirt. 🙃)

18 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Funny thing is I'm so used to shutting people down obnoxious people in real life, I really don't bother too often with using block online or in-world. Perhaps that comes from getting really good at ignoring bullies back in school, but it's really easy for me to just walk away from someone who crosses my line and pretend they don't even exist. I reserve in-world blocks for things like real harassing behavior, which is super rare, and spammy obnoxious objects, which is far more common!

Yeah, also this. Life would have been pretty miserable were I not able to just sort of mentally block obnoxious comments in RL, and the same applies here, mostly, and in-world.

Threatening or hateful language is, maybe, a bit different, as is harassment.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, all of this, especially maybe the last bit.

If I'm wandering around with the bottom of skirt accidentally tucked into my panties, and I'm flashing the street without knowing it, I'd want someone to tell me. Why wouldn't I similarly want to be told that I was upsetting or making someone uncomfortable?

(Not that that has EVER happened to my skirt. 🙃)

That sounds like me walking around with my zipper open all the time. 😆 My terrible memory is going to be the end of me.

But yeah, that's true - with friends, it's so easy to get carried away and accidentally offend with an iffy joke or teasing that goes too far. That's totally fine, but if I confront someone and they stand by some bonkers, ignorant position, then they can go.

Actually, I lied about never using block online - I DO use it very liberally on Twitter. 👀 To be fair, that's a LOT different. It's not like anyone argues in good faith over there and there's so much spam.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Actually, I lied about never using block online - I DO use it very liberally on Twitter. 👀 To be fair, that's a LOT different. It's not like anyone argues in good faith over there and there's so much spam.

I was SO proud of myself last week when I apparently provoked Brianna Wu to block me on Twitter!

Achievement unlocked!!! Woot me!