Let them stand up: Fixing vehicle auto-return

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

But in a shop parcel with limited LI, you probably want to put a tougher limit.

Unless, following one of your much earlier suggestions, we convince LL to consider the vehicles as "still attached"..

..then, perhaps you can thereby convince LL to not count the vehicle's LI against the parcel limit.

Hey, when you're wishing, wish for the skies!

[Extrude Ragu]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Unless, following one of your much earlier suggestions, we convince LL to consider the vehicles as "still attached"..

..then, perhaps you can thereby convince LL to not count the vehicle's LI against the parcel limit.

Hey, when you're wishing, wish for the skies!

Yes, need to figure out if driven vehicles count towards LI, it would be a pretty good outcome for land owners if they had the facility to provide residents with parking without worrying about LI

[Theresa Tennyson]

50 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If it's the case that llVehicles are not LI limited, one solution would be to simply put an LI cap on the park and explore feature. Say something like 32LI, which seems to be around the top end of where mesh vehicles hover these days.

SOMEBODY's in for a surprise...

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Say something like 32LI, which seems to be around the top end of where mesh vehicles hover these days.

Still NOT listening, I have a mesh schooner that's about 150 LI, but less than 32 "prims".

And that's not a particularly large or complicated vehicle.

[Extrude Ragu]

23 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

SOMEBODY's in for a surprise...

I'm aware of very high LI vehicles, but most of those are enthusiast things with the engine modelled and everything else, more of a decoration than anything else. I think region owners will need to set some limit to stop people taking the cake.

[Eowyn Southmoor]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I'm aware of very high LI vehicles, but most of those are enthusiast things with the engine modelled and everything else, more of a decoration than anything else. I think region owners will need to set some limit to stop people taking the cake.

This is completely untrue. Most road vehicles in SL aren't using shells specifically made for SL, and so their land impact is generally quite high, well certainly higher than 32 anyway.  It's not that uncommon for the average car in SL to use at least 50 LI

Though unrelated to the idea of parking and going shopping, as mentioned by others, boats are also almost always more than 32 LI, especially sailboats, which can indeed run into several hundred LI.

These are common vehicles used by many, not vehicles that are "more of a decoration" as you've suggested.

"32" gets bandied about as a number because it is the physics limit for a vehicle before it stops working, so whilst a big sailboat might be in total 150 LI, only 32 (max) of that is actually physical. It still counts as 150 though when you "park" it.

See the building section here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits

 

[Extrude Ragu]

blablablablabla

Edited January 30 by Extrude Ragu
I was tired and grumpy because it was late and had a not very helpful rant

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Tell a Rockstar Games engineer you can't park your car and get out of it because you might grief someone or max out someones land impact and they'll look at you like WTF

That would be because a typical Rockstar game doesn't HAVE "Land Impact, and doesn't really have large amounts of "privately owned land", also, it's common in Rockstar games for unattended vehicles to VANISH, fairly quickly.

 

9 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

by and large the vehicles of higher LI are generally going to be the ones that are either very detailed or simply not optimized.

Actually, NO, for example a schooner will have that 150 ish LI, because of the physics hit box, that would allow people to walk about on the deck to "look at the sunset", and stop people walking through wheelhouse walls, or masts. As I said, you appear to know next to nothing about vehicles in SL and how they work.

 

11 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I get that it's difficult to imagine an SL that is different to what it is now.

No, it isn't, that's how I'm able to imagine how happy the griefers and squatters would be with your proposal and why they would be happy, and THAT'S why I think it's a "bloody stupid idea".

 

13 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

it really stunts SL's growth as a platform, when we are constantly limit ourselves to limitations that are completely arbitrary and could be changed by a programmer tomorrow. 

They are not arbitrary. Rezzing is limited on most abandoned land, and auto-returns are SHORT, because LL remember what you do not, griefer attacks with self-replicators, that took down dozens of regions, because the physical set griefer cubes doubled in number every 20 seconds, and tumbled along the roads till they found another object entry allowed parcel with no auto-return.

THEY remember having to shut those regions down at the server farm, because Governance Linden's couldn't enter them in world, and the number of prims on sim reached the point where the simulators broke down and you couldn't DELETE the prim litter.

And you are proposing a system where griefers and squatter could place their prim-litter on parcels they do not own, and leave it there for upto a week, until the next rolling restarts knock the griefer/squatter parking alt offline.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Thinking in terms of what a typical game can pull off will serve us much better.

SL is not a typical game, doesn't work like a typical game, and would be prohibitively expensive to rewrite as one.

 

You want to drive cars and park them where ever you want, go play GTA 5 Online. It's designed for that from the ground up.

 

[Qie Niangao]

Practically, though, Mainland vehicles that cross region borders on Linden roads are well advised to keep the LI reasonable because there's not always a lot of spare Governor-owned land; sometimes there's just a corner road/rail/waterway (which also means two handoffs in rapid succession, so neighbors must be accustomed to accidents at those sites).

[elleevelyn]

14 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

every time land changes ownership it ought to flip on unless you 'check a box' to refuse to flip it on (you should have to opt-out of enabling it)

the reason why Auto-return is set to 0 when we transfer land is to avoid an entire build being returned when we deed the parcel to group or transfer the parcel to an alt or friend who wants to keep the build

changing it so that Autoreturn is set if we don't opt out is going to cause more problems that what is worth

tbf to the current Land Lindens who look after mainland they are pretty good at setting Auto-return on private parcels when there is a  mess of other people's stuff,. detracting the neighbours enjoyment of their own lands

 

[elleevelyn]

@Extrude Ragu

thinking about this some more. What you proposing can be done now by parcel owners using a LSL script

- timer poll for agents on parcel

     - agent not on parcel: return all objects belonging to agent

     - agent on parcel (first time detected): save key of their first object detected (typically will be the object they rode in on - when Build is Off)

     - agent on parcel (subsequent detected): return all objects belonging to agent other than first detected object

 

for LDPW right-of-way parcels, a question is would LPDW be willing to try this on a test region and gather info ? Like a ocean region for example. How many boats turn up, how many are present at the same time, how long do they stay, etc

Siren's Isle in Blake Sea be a good candidate for this test

info that would help guide Linden decision on whether to proceed with a parcel setting project

Edited January 31 by elleevelyn
more innfo

[Zalificent Corvinus]

36 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

or LDPW right-of-way parcels, a question is would LPDW be willing to try this on a test region and gather info ? Like a ocean region for example. How many boats turn up, how many are present at the same time, how long do they stay, etc

Siren's Isle in Blake Sea be a good candidate for this test

Seriously? Asking the overentitled inconsiderate multi-hundred LI mega yacht owners who commit area denial on an entire region by parking all damn day?

 

"Breaking News.

In a recent survey of over-entitled inconsiderate multi-hundred LI Mega yacht owning jerks who commit area denial on an entire region by parking all damn day, 100% of the over-entitled inconsiderate multi-hundred LI mega yacht owners who commit area denial on an entire region by parking all damn day, applauded plans to make it easier for over-entitled inconsiderate multi-hundred LI mega yacht owners to commit area denial on an entire region by parking all damn day.

No pictures at 11 as our photographer couldn't enter the region because of area denial by over-entitled inconsiderate multi-hundred LI mega yacht owners who park there all damn day."

 

Good plan.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

On the subject of Vehicle LI, and "only niche market speciality vehicles have LI over 32".

Here's a selection from an apparently popular vehicle store, that regularly appears in the weekend sales, and seems to sell a lot of vehicles as a result especially as they often come "GTFO" enabled. These are common purchases.

A GTFO cargo truck. called the "Bulkster", 115 LI.

Motor Trike called "Mirage II", 33 LI.

A pickup truck called "Xmas Bud", 63 LI.

Sporty 4 door, "Lynx", 42 LI.

 

Another store, has a small sailing boat, seats 2 maybe, LI, 39.

 

Mesh unleashed the LI of vehicles, a 32 LI limit will basically make the suggested "parking" feature useless to those who want it, no LI limit makes it a tool for griefers and squatters.

Drivable houses anyone? Buy one for a disposable alt, the alt drives it onto some "under used land" and parks it and stands there till the following weeks rolling restart.

Who needs to PAY for a subscription and BUY land and PAY tier, when you can park and live for free on Gov Linden's share of the grid, right?

 

[elleevelyn]

25 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Seriously? Asking the overentitled inconsiderate multi-hundred LI mega yacht owners who commit area denial on an entire region by parking all damn day?

 

they do this now

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Just now, elleevelyn said:

they do this now

I know, that's why asking them if they would like it made even easier is a pointless exercise, with a predictable outcome.

 

Surveys show that...

100% of perma banned griefers would approve of a complete amnesty on perma banned griefers

100% of car jackers would approve of police cars being fitted with 20mph speed limiters

100% of house breakers would approve the banning of locks and burglar alarms

100% of Drug Cartel Barons would approve the closing of the DEA, the ATF, the FBI, and all border controls.

 

Asking a tiny minority of annoying jerks if they would like it made easier to be annoying jerks, doesn't "prove" that the idea is good.

 

[Gabriele Graves]

My opinion is that rather than trying to convince the LDPW to trial anything out on any of the public regions, it might be better if a land owner steps up who actually wants to provide parking spaces/moorings and gives it a whirl first.  That would seem more appropriate.

I do like the idea that most of the proposal might be satisfied by scripting though.
 

[elleevelyn]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I know, that's why asking them if they would like it made even easier is a pointless exercise, with a predictable outcome.

how is it easier ?

sail in a mega boat and remain sitting and will stay forever under the current parcel Auto-return system

with a scripted solution can also add in a finite time if agent is sitting, llUnsit, amd return boat

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

how is it easier ?

sail in a mega boat and remain sitting and will stay forever under the current parcel Auto-return system

Because your initial suggestion was a scripted version of "park your prim-litter on land you don't pay for indefinatly if you are standing near it"

Now, if they unsit, poof, mega-yacht gone. You proposed a system that would mean turning auto-return off, and using a script to return stuff, unless it's the mega yacht they rode in on.

With your ill-thought out idea, these people can sail in on a mega yacht, stand up, and go party on a friends mega yacht at the next berth, leaving their UNUSED mega yacht to burn region resources.

 

BAD IDEA.

 

[elleevelyn]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

BAD IDEA.

 

this is an opinion which I am happy for you to have

 

[Arielle Popstar]

If one can buy the stuff, one should be entitled to use it. 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

We are...?

[elleevelyn]

38 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

With your ill-thought out idea, these people can sail in on a mega yacht, stand up, and go party on a friends mega yacht at the next berth, leaving their UNUSED mega yacht to burn region resources.

i will address this one point

people do this now on the Blake Sae. Park their mega boat next to another mega boat, alts sitting. Then they go back and forth on each others boats and party up, along with every else who have come to party

 

[elleevelyn]

55 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

 it might be better if a land owner steps up who actually wants to provide parking spaces/moorings and gives it a whirl first.  That would seem more appropriate.

yes why not

a more nuanced object return system might suit some parcel owners

[Rat Luv]

3 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

people do this now on the Blake Sae. Park their mega boat next to another mega boat, alts sitting. Then they go back and forth on each others boats and party up, along with every else who have come to party

That's what I'd do if I had a SL mega yacht  And have a rave on the jetty 🍾

It's just a bit of fun  It will probably lag at some point anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that ⛵

[Gabriele Graves]

4 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

That's what I'd do if I had a SL mega yacht  And have a rave on the jetty 🍾

It's just a bit of fun  It will probably lag at some point anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that ⛵

That is what I do sometimes.  I'm unashamed of it but then again, I don't mind if my yacht gets auto-returned either.  There a few nearby spots to rez it again.