Let them stand up: Fixing vehicle auto-return

[Zalificent Corvinus]

8 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

It's a fair concern, one solution might be to simply not count it towards LI if it's a non-abandoned vehicle that's just not currently sat on. Basically treat it the same as a vehicle that is sat on.

Another "bloody stupid suggestion".

That nonsense basically means that people who don't drive everywhere would turn their 500 prim mansions into "parked vehicles" so they don't use any of their parcels LI allowance.

 

Epic Fail.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

36 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

you are channeling Crusher Collins now !! (google new zealand politician) Ms Collins is total ruthless when it comes to hooligan car drivers :😲

When people start demanding that the whole grid should be a vast griefer friendly 1 hour auto-return sandbox, with special snowflake status for fanatical vehicle ab-users, because "immersion", I feel it's only fair to point out that the sacred and holy "immersion" cut both ways, cars are no copy items, and leave one where you shouldn't and it gets wheel-clamped, towed to the pound, and if you don't pay the parking fines and impound charges, CRUSHED.

I mean the over-entitled fanatical vehicle ab-users want more "immersion" right?

 

[Extrude Ragu]

SecondLife is one big griefing potential. If someone really wants to grief you now, they have plenty of toys to do so.

And yet I haven't seen an actual griefer in like 10 years. Most of SecondLife's audience is pretty mature now.

I'm not saying they don't exist, but keep things down to earth.

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

With that said, I think that vehicles do count towards LI? I seem to remember hitting a parcel border in the past and being told I can't enter because the region is full.

Worth a thought! If multiple users park their vehicles to go shopping and it impacts the available LI, then chaos can ensue (intentional or not).

[Extrude Ragu]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Worth a thought! If multiple users park their vehicles to go shopping and it impacts the available LI, then chaos can ensue (intentional or not).

One option would be that in addition to abandonment radius, if the parcel is low on prims, then subject vehicles to regular auto-return regardless if the user who drove the vehicle is near or not.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

26 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

If someone really wants to grief you now, they have plenty of toys to do so.

Which is why there is NO justification for giving them MORE tools with which to grief, such ass the ability to ab-use vehicular special snowflake status to bypass "no object entry, and leave griefer scripted prim litter on parcels, for as long as they want if they park their disposable griefer alt account NEXT to the griefer crap.

Which is why turning every place on the grid not owned by people like ME, into a vast griefer approved sandbox.

This nonsense of driving cars to stores.

I haven't seen anyone do this, in 8 years, vehicles in SL are a bloody awful way to shop, it takes too long to go from one shop to another, and some cannot be reached by vehicle at all. SANE people TELEPORT.

 

As for "immersion", I have no sympathy for that crap either.

I had no sympathy for the vehicular fool who demanded that Zindra be bulldozed because it was "just smut" and the regions reused to build Floridian Style "Chapa-kill-a-Kennedy-quick" road bridges between the "nice continents" because having to get out of his prim-car at the coast "broke his immersion".

I had no sympathy for the vehicular fool who demanded that vehicle users should be allowed to IGNORE being banned by name from a parcel if sat on a vehicle, because not being allowed into places he was banned from "broke hiss immersion".

I had no sympathy for the biker gang demand that skyboxes be banned because people in skyboxes can't be subjected to gang home invasion by biker clubs, and it "broke their immersion".

I have NO sympathy for demands that vehicular fools be allowed to illegally park anywhere for an hour, and can leave their vehicles on property they don't own for as long as they want, by parking an account near it, because auto-return "breaks their immersion".

 

There's all this talk about "bona fide travellers" and their "right to explore", but here we are with people demanding the right to STOP others exploring the land they ARE allowed on by using up all the available LI for their illegally parked vehicles.

Talk about irony, fanatical vehicle ab-users worst enemies being OTHER fanatical vehicle ab-users.

Outstanding!

 

Edited January 29 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

So do you think the issue that holds us back here is the way the simulator treats personal vehicles? Eg. Because the vehicle counts towards LI, it places an unfair burden on land owners.

What if we could control what counts towards LI? or have a budget for personal vehicles?

Imagine that we can change anything about how the underlying SL system works, what would you change to make it work better, for everybody?

Treat a "parked/anchored" vehicle as an avatar attachment. If we're making changes, increase the distance the avatar can move away from the "anchored" attachment with the tradeoff that the attachment won't be allowed to move/be moved while anchored and it can't be anchored on a parcel that doesn't allow object entry.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Treat a "parked/anchored" vehicle as an avatar attachment. If we're making changes, increase the distance the avatar can move away from the "anchored" attachment with the tradeoff that the attachment won't be allowed to move/be moved while anchored and it can't be anchored on a parcel that doesn't allow object entry.

Good point, I may have missed it in the previous posts, but allowing the "owner" to move too far away from the "parked" vehicle - into different Regions - is sticky. Some shopping "areas" are bigger than 1 Region and/or cross Regions!

The OP idea opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities like a "Find My Car" function. ("Darn it, now where did I park?!?")

 

[Extrude Ragu]

22 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Which is why turning every place on the grid not owned by people like ME, into a vast griefer approved sandbox.

So you are saying the vast majority of people are NOT like you?

🤔

[Extrude Ragu]

8 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Treat a "parked/anchored" vehicle as an avatar attachment. If we're making changes, increase the distance the avatar can move away from the "anchored" attachment with the tradeoff that the attachment won't be allowed to move/be moved while anchored and it can't be anchored on a parcel that doesn't allow object entry.

Is it actually possible to drive vehicles right now into a parcel that doesn't have object entry on? that sounds counter intuitive

[Rowan Amore]

Realistically, almost every single place I've ever shopped in SL has been either on a private estate or, if on mainland, in a skybox.  There really is very little need to implement anything that allows 'parking' of a vehicle on mainland.  The times I've gone to explore something off-road, I simply take up my vehicle, go look, come back and rerez it.  Seriously, how many people would this even affect?  

There just seems to be very little need for this whole suggestion and too many bad things to even consider it.

Edited January 29 by Rowan Amore

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Realistically, almost every single place I've ever shopped in SL has been either on a private estate or, if on mainland, in a skybox. 

Do many private estates and skyboxes allow object (vehicle) rezzing and/or entry (two separate things)?

 

[Extrude Ragu]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

[snip] every single place I've ever shopped in SL has been either on a private estate or, if on mainland, in a skybox [snip] Seriously, how many people would this even affect? 

Chicken and the egg. Why build a parking lot when there are insufficient tools to allow a customer to park without also allowing grief?

Why build a world for exploration, when the tools for exploration are insufficient?

In the big picture, exploration is one of the few things SecondLife's got going for it that other platforms don't really have. We've got whole continents to explore where other virtual worlds just have private lobbies. Strengthening SL's strengths makes it more resilient.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Do many private estates and skyboxes allow object (vehicle) rezzing and/or entry (two separate things)?

 

Most of them aren't designed with vehicle traffic in mind.  Why would they be?  Of course, I CAN wear my scooter if I want to putter around a shopping event or a shopping region.  

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Extrude Ragu said:

Chicken and the egg. Why build a parking lot when there are insufficient tools to allow a customer to park without also allowing grief?

Why build a world for exploration, when the tools for exploration are insufficient?

In the big picture, exploration is one of the few things SecondLife's got going for it that other platforms don't really have. We've got whole continents to explore where other virtual worlds just have private lobbies. Strengthening SL's strengths makes it more resilient.

Nothing is stopping exploration by not letting people park their vehicles.  As I said, I just take up my vehicle if I want to check something out along the way.  I've done a fair bit of exploring mainland over the last couple of years.  Mostly because people here in the forums were complaining about how unfriendly all the banlines, orbs, and such were making it impossible.  I just don't see it.  I just don't see the need, aside from a few edge cases, to be able to park anywhere.  If the GTFO places or gas stations allow it, that's pretty much all that's needed.  Not an overhaul of how parcel access is determined.

Bottom line, IMO?   LL has much better things to do than implement something unneeded by the VAST majority.

[Extrude Ragu]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Nothing is stopping exploration by not letting people park their vehicles.

But this is not really true is it. If you are unable to stop and get out of your vehicle without losing it, you're not going to stop to get out and look in that one shop near the road, because you will lose your vehicle and chances are not be able to find anywhere nearby to rez it.

If you're unable to stand in a boat on the virtual sea, you're unlikely to go sailing and stop to watch the sunset with your partner on the deck.

I would say that you wouldn't even bother rezzing a vehicle, because you know ahead of time of these inconveniences, and therefor opt to teleport instead of taking the scenic route.

In the end your choices on how you get around and the activities you do in SecondLife are not just arbitrary, they are the result of the world and how it is designed, what is actually enjoyable in SecondLife, and what experiences the world is designed to provide you with.

[Arielle Popstar]

7 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

In the big picture, exploration is one of the few things SecondLife's got going for it that other platforms don't really have. We've got whole continents to explore where other virtual worlds just have private lobbies. Strengthening SL's strengths makes it more resilient.

And that is exactly it. The contiguous land masses are what SL has going for it but because of the orbs, banlines and other limitations, landowners in general don't design and build for it because for the typical resident who would love to travel by land air and or sea, it is just too much of a challenge to be able to do a consistent and persistent drive through.

When I was doing the fly through testing the other day I saw a few stores I had never heard of before and thought to myself that in a way it is not surprising that so many opt to just do marketplace sales only because the lack of travellers wouldn't allow for much shopper traffic by people who just happened to travel by it. How much is the lab losing from land sales because of that?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

16 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Why build a parking lot when there are insufficient tools to allow a customer to park without also allowing grief?

Why add a "tool" to allow parking that guaranteed to see more use for griefing than parking?

Chicken and Egg, give griefers more "tools", see more griefers.

[Love Zhaoying]

I thought of a use-case:

An area to park "baby buggies" (prams) so mothers can leave the buggies outside, hopefully with their screaming brats.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

the typical resident who would love to travel by land air and or sea

Evidence needed.

Empirical evidence shows most residents would rather spend 30 seconds teleporting from store to store, than waste 5 hours driving through the mind numbing soul destroying suburban tedium of Belli, to get to a shop on another continent just to buy a pair of earring that are on weekend sale.

 

Unsubstantiated claims by privacy hating pro-trespass, pro prim-litter, pro-griefer activists, mean nothing.

Edited January 29 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Love Zhaoying]

Adding: It seems to me that shopping by "flying car" seems more "possible" in SL, than by road vehicle. (Due to lack of contiguous roads, skybox accessibility, ability to fly more easily above a certain level, etc.)

 

Edited January 29 by Love Zhaoying

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought of a use-case:

An area to park "baby buggies" (prams) so mothers can leave the buggies outside, hopefully with their screaming brats.

Oh look, more "immersion justifies prim-littering property you don't own".

 

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I would say that you wouldn't even bother rezzing a vehicle, because you know ahead of time of these inconveniences, and therefor opt to teleport instead of taking the scenic route.

What inconvenience?  I've never had an issue finding a place to rerez my car when driving around.  Never.  I used to sail years ago and not once felt the need to stand up to watch a sunset.  Do people really need to do that?  Aren't there rez zones on the NE corner of each region on the sea?   That's a lot of places to rez a boat if you need one.  

ETA...there is no scenic route to anything, such as stores, events, etc., that are NOT on mainland.  

Edited January 29 by Rowan Amore

[Extrude Ragu]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Why add a "tool" to allow parking that guaranteed to see more use for griefing than parking?

The evidence is on the contrary, given the amount of tools would-be griefers already have, and how little grief actually gets committed.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

34 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Is it actually possible to drive vehicles right now into a parcel that doesn't have object entry on? that sounds counter intuitive

Vehicles are, for some unimaginable reason, EXEMPT from "no object entry", it's one of those "standard griefer exploits" they SIT on their griefer prim, edit into the "no object entry" area, and LEAVE IT THERE.