Love Zhaoying Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Istelathis said: It really is not that bad. Edited environment - not to be taken seriously. Reminds me of someone's response (I think it was on my thread): paraphrasing, "Don't you turn lights on at night at your RL home"? LOL ETA: Those eyes, tho! Edited February 29 by Love Zhaoying 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: The only things I've purchased that were PBR ready were homes from Scarlet Creative. On sale so I couldn't pass them up. She does include Non-PBR versions which is a good thing. Personally, although I find the Firestorm PBR viewer runs quite well, I see no reason to use it or the SL PBR version at this time. Ah, I meant that cute outfit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Pink is completely manly and macho now. Did you miss out? Now there is pink and pink. I have a few pink shirts in RL, but: 16 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: Thank goodness the dawn setting only lasts for a few minutes. It makes my whites look like I washed them with a new red shirt or towel. That's what I mean. Edited February 29 by Sid Nagy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, Istelathis said: It really is not that bad. Edited environment - not to be taken seriously. Stella, I think I love you. 🥰 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Stella, I think I love you. 🥰 That should inspire us all to post similar pics to a new PBR Picture thread!! Thead Title Ideas: "PBR After Dark" "Show us your BAD PBR!" 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Question to anyone who knows -- to what degree are the settings for reflection probes, especially ambient lighting, "reachable" via LSL scripting? How "doable" would it be to produce a HUD that includes a simple and intuitive way to fine-tune reflection probes, or change them according to the overall EEP? @Qie Niangao? @Henri Beauchamp? @Extrude Ragu? Anyone? So you may recall I started down this path earlier, but I eventually talked myself out of it ever being useful, for a couple reasons. One is that the only Environment a script can see into is the one currently in effect on a parcel at a specified altitude. It can get a lot of detail for that EEP, but it's just whatever it is at the moment in the day cycle. It cannot see any Environments in Inventory unless they're applied to the parcel (which makes it useless for many photography applications). A script can set the user-specifiable parameters of a Reflection Probe (ambiance, clip_distance, whether it's a box or sphere, and whether or not it's "dynamic" so avatars can be reflected within the volume). Thing is, the more I played with reflection probes, the more I settle on the view that ambiance should almost always be set to 1.0 (to defeat EEP-specified ambient color, if any) and do everything else with interior lighting. That EEP ambiance is defeated above 1.0, too, and in that range the effect is almost linear: higher numbers simply boost the overall lighting effects, up to 4, by which point everything is pretty bright already, and above 4 the local lighting effects are capped and only brightness from the sky is boosted further (all the way up to 100). Except… and here's the part that's so unintuitive I could think of no way for a HUD to make it palatable: EEP can set a floor (up to 10.0) on your reflection probe's Ambiance setting, with the Environment's "SKY_REFLECTION_PROBE_AMBIANCE" parameter. So if a builder creates a reflection probe for their prefab, say, if it uses an Ambiance setting below 10 (as they almost all will), it can be overridden by the Environment at the customer's site. A HUD could show that happening for a static Environment, but I don't know how the average user would understand and use that. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Ah, I meant that cute outfit! It was a demo just so I could see.the difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: It was a demo just so I could see.the difference. It was really, really cute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andred Darwin Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 5 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said: See this modest pull request of mine (a one liner fix in LL's code, to fix an EEP-era bug with non-scrolling clouds, and a request for LL to forward the fix to their new ”default mid-day” inventory setting), and see how it suddenly seems to become ”problematic” and how, in the mind of some devels at LL, everything in the environment should suddenly stay put, with any variation (even cloud scrolling) being an ”impairment” for creators.... See, in particular, my last post about the creator-centric streak that has suddenly been taken with PBR, causing grave damage to SL-users experience... I must confess I have been flabbergasted by the reaction ! Your pull request was actually approved! Runitai's comments approving your pull request also makes a lot of sense too, your reply to his comments on the other hand... quite harsh... ("24 grit sandpaper on polished aluminum")... does it really need to be that way? I guess we all like SL and sometimes it goes over our head, I was "flabbergasted" by your reply... hehehe... my point is, you have great feedback, ideas and also a great contributor... maybe consider tone down a bit... the way you argument them. LL's approach seems to be a very good one for that case, making way easier for creators by providing a "default" EEP that can replicate almost exactly what they see while texturing in Substance Painter (recommended software with recommended HDRI settings) allowing others to see it that way too... even if just for bit until they change back to the EEP setting they like the most... aren't their creations one of the main reasons SL passed the 20 year mark? Its not like they are blocking moving clouds.. and most won't use the default Midday anyway... for me that Midday is a big plus, matches pretty close Substance Painter (recommended software with recommended HDRI Env) and with PBR, that Midday is an easy way to show others how a reflection probe or a custom EEP setting may affect the way a specific object/scene renders, it's a standard, its great to plus to have it for full PBR scenes (either called Midday... or Standard PBR or whatever it may end up being called). Edited February 29 by Andred Darwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Midday has been and always will be the worst lighting for avatars. Just sayin'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Midday has been and always will be the worst lighting for avatars. Just sayin'. Even the "new" Midday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: your reply to his comments on the other hand... quite harsh... ("24 grit sandpaper on polished aluminum")... does it really need to be that way? 6 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: maybe consider tone down a bit... IKR? How dare somebody who doesn't guzzle the PBR Koolaid comment negatively on a program designed to appease people who can afford to RENT a copy of Substance Painter, and which will force large numbers of NON creators to have to sell a kidney to pay for a new PC to see badly made content by people who think their self styled "artist" status entitles them to tell the rest of us we shouldn't use our preferred EEP settings. </sarcasm mode> Actually I'll side with @Henri Beauchamp here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andred Darwin Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Midday has been and always will be the worst lighting for avatars. Just sayin'. No question (at least until PBR gets integrated somehow to the bake system)... But the new Midday (maybe we are not seeing the same one.. I'm not sure which viewer you are using), on a full PBR scene does a great job... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andred Darwin Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: IKR? How dare somebody who doesn't guzzle the PBR Koolaid comment negatively on a program designed to appease people who can afford to RENT a copy of Substance Painter, and which will force large numbers of NON creators to have to sell a kidney to pay for a new PC to see badly made content by people who think their self styled "artist" status entitles them to tell the rest of us we shouldn't use our preferred EEP settings. </sarcasm mode> Actually I'll side with @Henri Beauchamp here. I'm not a big fan of the fact that you would have to pay quite a few bucks for Substance... but.. its well worth depending on the amount of items you want to bring in-world either to sell or use yourself... (I regret to not have used before... Blender is great and is free... but Gee... I can do the same task with a lot more materials within much less time... in fact, now I have some extra time to maybe learn a bit more and improve on this hobby... time saved for me is more valuable... may not be the case for others ) And its not about side... and its not the first time seeing those exchanges... Did anybody said we should not use our preferred EEP settings? Edited February 29 by Andred Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: How dare somebody who doesn't guzzle the PBR Koolaid What flavor is the Kool-Aid©️? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 15 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: who can afford to RENT a copy of Substance Painter skill issue, I made many of my existing pbr trims with blender alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 5 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: I can do the same task with a lot more materials within much less time... in fact, now I have some extra time to maybe learn a bit more and improve on this hobby... So, making it easier for you to spam questionable materials presets into SL, justifies substantial loss of FPS for many non creators, and many non-creators needing a NEW PC to stay in SL. So, when you and the other Substance Painter Renters have driven a substantial percentage of your customers off the Grid, who exactly will you sell all these SP-PBR materials to? PBR seems to ONLY benefit "creators" at the expense of EVERYONE ELSE. And it doesn't even look that good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Question to anyone who knows -- to what degree are the settings for reflection probes, especially ambient lighting, "reachable" via LSL scripting? How "doable" would it be to produce a HUD that includes a simple and intuitive way to fine-tune reflection probes, or change them according to the overall EEP? @Qie Niangao? @Henri Beauchamp? @Extrude Ragu? Anyone? The properties are all exposed to LSL. See https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PRIM_REFLECTION_PROBE 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 also FWIW it's possible to purchase substance painter and own it perpetually via Steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: skill issue, I made many of my existing pbr trims with blender alone We keep being told we "must have PBR to be compliant with industry standard creation tools like Substance Painter". If it doesn't look any better, and was only done to benefit SP users, and causes problems for loads of non SP users and non creators, and is obviously no where near ready for release, maybe it should be kicked back to the alpha grid kerb for another couple or three years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: We keep being told we "must have PBR to be compliant with industry standard creation tools like Substance Painter". If it doesn't look any better, and was only done to benefit SP users, and causes problems for loads of non SP users and non creators, and is obviously no where near ready for release, maybe it should be kicked back to the alpha grid kerb for another couple or three years. Blender has all the necessary tools to be industry compliant and achieve WYSIWYG with SL. There are instructions on which settings to check match up in the wiki. I haven't had issues authoring materials in Blender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: Blender has all the necessary tools to be industry compliant and achieve WYSIWYG with SL. There are instructions on which settings to check match up in the wiki. I haven't had issues authoring materials in Blender. You seem to be missing the point here, let me explain in simpler terms. "Must have PBR in SL because kiss lazy creator's butt cracks, and screw everybody else, also MIRRORS that look worse than the ones in 'Sims 2' 18 years ago under blinn-phong with Directx 9c." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andred Darwin Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: So, making it easier for you to spam questionable materials presets into SL, justifies substantial loss of FPS for many non creators, and many non-creators needing a NEW PC to stay in SL. So, when you and the other Substance Painter Renters have driven a substantial percentage of your customers off the Grid, who exactly will you sell all these SP-PBR materials to? PBR seems to ONLY benefit "creators" at the expense of EVERYONE ELSE. And it doesn't even look that good. I respect your opinion that PBR may drive users out of the grid... but I dont believe it will be the case... PBR will be the next step... same it was Mesh back in the day... some also believed it would be the end of SL... here we are... I also respect your opinion that PBR only benefits creators... and that you believe it doesn't look that good, who knows how many will think the same way... I think its awesome... and hopefully it will do the same that mesh did for the grid... I believe trying to balance how legacy items are rendered and PBR will probably be (or already is) the biggest challenge... legacy items will look at bit different (its a new rendering engine)... As of the need of a new PC... that is unfortunate, but depending on the current machine... may well be the case... (I really enjoyed using for quite a long time the machine I had before this one, for almost 7 years... things change... I dont make the rules... In my case, I thought it was worth to replace it, cause I like SL a lot, and took a while to save money for it, and until them, I just used what I had... ) Edited February 29 by Andred Darwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: PBR will be the next step... same it was Mesh back in the day You're comparing Oranges and Orangutangs there. 5 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: that you believe it doesn't look that good, who knows how many will think the same way... I think its awesome... Every single "non-PBR vs PBR comparison of the same scene shown so far on the forums, clearly shows that LL's version of PBR is bloody awful, desaturated, over contrasted, blue skies turn slate grey, etc. It's just BAD, and the way it renders LL water is nausea inducing. 7 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: I believe trying to balance how legacy items are rendered and PBR will probably be (or already is) the biggest challenge PBR "requires" ACES tone mapping, but that makes the 99.999999999% of SL content that isn't PBR look like crap. And SL tone mapping makes PBR look like crap, so they compromised with a 2/3rds ACES & 1/3rd SL kludge, that makes BOTH look like crap. 10 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: (its a new rendering engine It's a HALF finished rendering engine, forced out 2 to 3 years too early, and which only offers advantages to "creators using PBM materials generator who were too lazy or just plain stupid to RTFM on SL ALM-BP Materials, introduced 9 years ago, which most of them STILL haven't mastered or indeed made any effort to actually use. Currently somewhere between 690 and 70% of SecondLifers do NOT use a PBR viewer, nor is that likely to change in the immediate future. But the koolaid guzzlers seem intent on demanding that everyone change over to PBR only content immediately. It will be YEARS before PBR becomes common place in SL, and most of it will be substandard. 16 minutes ago, Andred Darwin said: I respect your opinion that PBR may drive users out of the grid... but I dont believe it will be the case... Mesh didn't cause massive drops in FPS for large numbers of people, as in dropping from 170 to 90, for example. Now for somebody with a powerful PC getting 170 FPS, a drop to a 'mere' 90 isn't that bad. For people with lower spec machines, who normally get 17 FPS, dropping to 9 will hurt a lot, enough to make SSL unusable for many. To this complaint, the standard "PBR Koolaid" response is "Ban everyone who has a PC older or cheaper than my multi thousand dollar leet gamerz rig". THAT will drive people off the grid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 For me it is simple, I see no reason whatsoever to start diving into PBR right now or in the near future. PBR as it stands at the moment in SL is more a pain than fun for the average user IMHO. When it ever becomes the new standard, I will then decide if I'm gonna learn it or call it a day as creator. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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