PBR WOW!

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, arton Rotaru said:

How many times will I have to explain to you that you are claiming something I would have said when this is not the case?

I mean seriously, why are you doing it? What is your goal that you are trying to achieve with this?
 

Again, please stop making these false claims.

It's weird that she quoted you but missed that you said WITH reflection probes. Again.

[arton Rotaru]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

It's weird that she quoted you but missed that you said WITH reflection probes. Again.

Yeah, time to apply the don't feed the troll rule I guess.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If PBR is such a framerate-killer, why aren't more people complaining?  Does everyone (but me) really use FS and other non-PBR Third-Party viewers?

I'm not seeing a framerate difference.

It's almost as if people with old PC's (and notebooks with slower/older integrated graphics, etc.) want someone to blame.

Weird!

Hmmm, lets start with the basics.

1. Only about 30% of SL users use the Official Fail Viewer, and so only about 30% have been auto-updated to PBR.

2. Hardly any of those use the Forums

3. Drops in FPS are relative, Getting 300 FPS on your "leet gamerz" rig with ALM always on, dropping to 250 won't make you cry. Getting 15 on a cheap laptop with ALM off, and 7 with ALM on , switching to PBR will kill your SL DEAD.

 

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Does everyone (but me) really use FS and other non-PBR Third-Party viewers?

According to LL, apparently 70% of us are EVIL TPV using traitors, bwahahaahahaha! Deal with it.

 

[JUSTUS Palianta]

You would think with 70% on TPV Linden might up their viewer game a bit, I mean really in theory Linden should make the best viewer given that this is their rodeo.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

14 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

You wouldn't go to a racetrack and insist everyone has to drive 50 MPH because you brought a 1995 Toyota Corolla

But we didn't go to a race track at all, we just tried our usual routine of driving to the grocery store at 30 MPH, etc. BUT somebody decided to FORCE us to compete in a race against Nitro-Methane fueled blown V8 Hemi's that can hit 300+ MPH.

17 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

For once, the fault isn't on LL.

Yes it is.

Saying

"Dear customers, we understand many of you drive at 30 MPH, but as of now, if you cant compete at the Santa Pod Drag-Racing Track at 300+ MPH, over a 1/4 mile, SOD you.

PS Please keep paying your membership fee, even though you can't use the system, because we still want our salaries!

Thanks!"

 

15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's all very well to sit back smugly and say, "They should have a better computer" while we watch people abandon the platform.

Somebody once asked why NONE of their suggestions to "improve" SL got popular support on the Forum, I replied "because you keep suggesting driving off 90% of the user base and deleting 90% of the content". Guess who that somebody was.

 

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Putting aside the fact that there are lots of residents who can't afford a sleek new computer, for whatever reason . . . the simple fact that this IS going to negatively impact on a reasonably large number of residents should be of concern to LL and to us all, because it could potentially impact on the number of users.

^ THIS ^

 

[JUSTUS Palianta]

If SL doesn't go anymore I won't have to pay premium plus or mainland tier, I won't have to buy any lindens to waste ever again.  Just think of the money you will save.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It's weird that she quoted you but missed that you said WITH reflection probes. Again.

I quoted the whole post in question. Here it is again.

 

On 12/17/2023 at 7:30 PM, arton Rotaru said:

FWIW, the ambient color of the new Midday setting is black to make the ambient lighting driven only by the Image Based Lighting (IBL) of the irradiance map that is created alongside the reflection map by the reflection probes. So when there is no light source around there won't be any light.

The black ambient color and other parameters of the new Midday might be not set in stone yet.

Plain English. "So when there's no light source around there won't be any light". Seems fairly straight forward. Nowhere did he say "only if you have a probe" in that post. Just that the black ambient in the EEP means the ONLY ambient lighting is what's supplied by a probe, if one exists.

 

The implication is clear, no probe, no ambient lighting, anything not directly lit, is in the dark, If that's not correct, blame the person who said it.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

22 minutes ago, arton Rotaru said:

How many times will I have to explain to you that you are claiming something I would have said when this is not the case?

I mean seriously, why are you doing it? What is your goal that you are trying to achieve with this?
 

Again, please stop making these false claims.

There are some people whose stock of information is unchecked and not necessarily reliable. Almost as if it arrived by... I don't know, UDP or something.

[Jenna Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Plain English. "So when there's no light source around there won't be any light". Seems fairly straight forward. Nowhere did he say "only if you have a probe" in that post. Just that the black ambient in the EEP means the ONLY ambient lighting is what's supplied by a probe, if one exists.

The quoted post is somewhat incomplete - while it is not strictly false, you need to meet the following conditions for the room to be completely dark:

• A manually placed reflection probe MUST be present.
• The "Reflection Probe Ambiance" value in the EEP settings must be 1 or above.
• The room that the probe is in must not have an opening to the outside to allow light in.

If any those conditions are not met, the room will be lit in some form. It's worth noting that the ambient color doesn't directly contribute to lighting if the EEP's Reflection Probe Ambiance value is set to 1 or above. It will (indirectly) contribute to lighting by affecting other factors (sky color, fog color, fog intensity, etc.).

[LipstickAndDreams]

45 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

The source of the problem isn't a great mystery, at least.

For once, the fault isn't on LL.

You wouldn't go to a racetrack and insist everyone has to drive 50 MPH because you brought a 1995 Toyota Corolla. You wouldn't buy a PlayStation 2 and expect to play PlayStation 5 games. Why should it be different for SL?

Ok, can you give me $300-$500 then? No? I will stick with my original plan then.

[Paul Hexem]

28 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Because you would not accept to be forced to go to a racetrack with a 1995 Toyota Corolla when you do not want to go to that race track in the first place ?... 😮

Not everyone can afford buying a new computer every 5 years, you know...

 

27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Putting aside the fact that there are lots of residents who can't afford a sleek new computer, for whatever reason . . . the simple fact that this IS going to negatively impact on a reasonably large number of residents should be of concern to LL and to us all, because it could potentially impact on the number of users.

I can't afford a sailboat, so I avoid yacht cruising as a hobby, even though I'd like to do it. I can't afford an ATV, so I avoid off roading as a hobby, even though I'd like to do it. I can afford new PC parts every few years though, so SL is a pretty good hobby for me.

Pick the hobby you can afford.

And I'll say it again - there's no reason to buy whole new computers every few years. A good one will last much longer. And even longer than that if you upgrade parts over time, which can be done very cheap. 

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, LipstickAndDreams said:

Ok, can you give me $300-$500 then? No? I will stick with my original plan then.

If you'd like, I can help you find a dedicated GPU that'll solve the problem for half that. Maybe less.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

Not everyone can build a computer, and some people have laptops which are not easy to upgrade parts.

[LipstickAndDreams]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

If you'd like, I can help you find a dedicated GPU that'll solve the problem for half that. Maybe less.

Oh, any that would fit in my laptop? And will you pay for that too? Both no? Then I am sticking to my original plan to fork firestorm once the last forward-rendering version gets EOL'd. If you don't want to pay up to fix the problem, then don't tell others to. I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

If you'd like, I can help you find a dedicated GPU that'll solve the problem for half that. Maybe less.

Good luck jamming that into a laptop but in any case, the issue here is the lab's insistence to not allow one to turn off ALM which we know could be done with ease but for some asinine reason they in their so called wisdom are not allowing neither their own viewer nor that of Firestorm to do.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Hmmm, let's check shall we.

 

On 12/17/2023 at 2:30 PM, arton Rotaru said:

FWIW, the ambient color of the new Midday setting is black to make the ambient lighting driven only by the Image Based Lighting (IBL) of the irradiance map that is created alongside the reflection map by the reflection probes. So when there is no light source around there won't be any light.

The black ambient color and other parameters of the new Midday might be not set in stone yet.

You see, where you quoted Arton above, they clearly mentioned reflection probes. But you ignored it.

[Istelathis]

I think for the extreme dark at the midnight setting, you first have to set your reflective probe ambience in your personal lighting settings to 1.  This will produce incredibly dark results, especially for a new moon.  LL's viewer for me defaults to a setting of 0 for every environment setting from within my linden home,  which has no impact on the light settings indoors outside of the usual shadows.

 

Midnight reflective probe ambience set to 0

It is completely black when set to 1

Changing the sun color to orange and changing the location created a light source, which is mostly blocked out by the walls 

[Innula Zenovka]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Good luck jamming that into a laptop but in any case, the issue here is the lab's insistence to not allow one to turn off ALM which we know could be done with ease but for some asinine reason they in their so called wisdom are not allowing neither their own viewer nor that of Firestorm to do.

Are you saying that Firestorm want to provide some sort of on/off switch for ALM, and have a way of doing this, but Linden Lab are somehow preventing them from implementing it?    But somehow Henri's viewer gets away with it?

Any Firestorm devs reading this who could maybe assist?  @Whirly Fizzle?

[Paul Hexem]

9 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

Not everyone can build a computer, and some people have laptops which are not easy to upgrade parts.

 

6 minutes ago, LipstickAndDreams said:

Oh, any that would fit in my laptop? And will you pay for that too? Both no? Then I am sticking to my original plan to fork firestorm once the last forward-rendering version gets EOL'd. If you don't want to pay up to fix the problem, then don't tell others to. I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore.

 

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Good luck jamming that into a laptop but in any case, the issue here is the lab's insistence to not allow one to turn off ALM which we know could be done with ease but for some asinine reason they in their so called wisdom are not allowing neither their own viewer nor that of Firestorm to do.

Buying a laptop instead of a desktop when you're already struggling to afford the hobby is just poor planning, no way to sugarcoat that.

You could buy a cheap desktop, which will be an experience as miserable as the laptop is now, then set a little money aside each month and slowly upgrade it to where you want to be. No need to go all in on a whole new laptop or an expensive desktop.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

I own a desktop and a laptop.   My reason for owning a computer is not only for "hobbies".  Maybe people like being portable.  Linden better get that mobile ap working faster.

Edited December 29, 2023 by JUSTUS Palianta

[Jenna Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

lab's insistence to not allow one to turn off ALM which we know could be done with ease

"with ease" is definitely not the case.

Henri's CoolVL viewer implements a dual rendering pipeline, which means to say, the (older) rendering pipeline from viewer versions 6.x, and the newer pipeline from viewer versions 7.x - Viewers with only the 7.x rendering pipe (The LL viewer and essentially all TPVs of V7 that aren't CoolVL) can't switch off ALM, because the forward renderer is no longer implemented - for many users, the new V7 pipeline should give you the same or more FPS while looking nicer; but CoolVL is the one to use if your hardware is flat out incapable of running the new viewer.

As Henri has said previously, the option to revert to the V6 rendering pipe will be implemented for a finite amount of time, so long as it continues to work without major breakage. This also means that the option likely won't be around forever.

[LipstickAndDreams]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

 

 

Buying a laptop instead of a desktop when you're already struggling to afford the hobby is just poor planning, no way to sugarcoat that.

You could buy a cheap desktop, which will be an experience as miserable as the laptop is now, then set a little money aside each month and slowly upgrade it to where you want to be. No need to go all in on a whole new laptop or an expensive desktop.

I don't think you got the message. I am not interested in your financial advice. I actually have a desktop with 4 server-grade GPUs in it already that could probably run at least 8 instances of SL at once, but would like to be able to run SL on my laptop due to portability. If this new rendering engine upgrade hinders my ability to do so, I will make workarounds. Got it?

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Are you saying that Firestorm want to provide some sort of on/off switch for ALM, and have a way of doing this, but Linden Lab are somehow preventing them from implementing it?    But somehow Henri's viewer gets away with it?

Any Firestorm devs reading this who could maybe assist?  @Whirly Fizzle?

Yay! A conspiracy!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, LipstickAndDreams said:

I don't think you got the message. I am not interested in your financial advice. I actually have a desktop with 4 server-grade GPUs in it already that could probably run at least 8 instances of SL at once, but would like to be able to run SL on my laptop due to portability. If this new rendering engine upgrade hinders my ability to do so, I will make workarounds. Got it?

Thanks, I took your complaints too seriously, as if you had a real issue.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

It seems SL is such a selfish game people only care about themselves.  If no one cares about the other people who log in SL you may as well be playing Sim On A Stick on a USB Stick all alone.  If a lot of people can't play SL any more it will affect your SL socially, it will affect the communities, it will affect businesses.  You will lose some of the friends you love and some of the places  much faster then we already do.