Unashamedly Bots

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

That's all I wanted to do, and I got a bit fed up of waiting for the topic to come up again.

That's a shame, innit? When you've got an interest and nobody else talks about it!  Good for you!

[Marigold Devin]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That's a shame, innit? When you've got an interest and nobody else talks about it!  Good for you!

I would like to see more threads about bots, with photos and examples of how useful and fun they are to use. My ex-partner/mentor used to play around with bots, and one chap many years ago allegedly used them as part of an "art installation". 

I'll wheel this one out again, as I get a mention at the beginning. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Marigold Devin

[Arielle Popstar]

5 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Where did Phil say the number of bots is increasing?

His statement where he said he was surprised how many there were. After the years he has been here, it would be surprising for him to be surprised if it is the same as it has been for those years. Surprised?

That and the amount of previous posters who have mentioned the observed uptick in visiting bots to their own places.

[Perrie Juran]

Are you on Mainland or an Estate.

I haven't taken time to check profiles but in the span of a week I have had twenty  "Avatars" visit my region. I haven't asked my Estate owner if they have banned bots from the Estate but the fact I an seeing Bonnie Bots indicates to me they haven't. This is a Sailing Estate so I am not out in the middle of nowhere.

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

His statement where he said he was surprised how many there were. After the years he has been here, it would be surprising for him to be surprised if it is the same as it has been for those years. Surprised?

To put your mind at rest, I have noticed neither an increase nor a decrease in the number of bots. I had no idea how many visited sims, so I was surprised by the number of them, that's all. There's no need to imagine things.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

To put your mind at rest, I have noticed neither an increase nor a decrease in the number of bots. I had no idea how many visited sims, so I was surprised by the number of them, that's all. There's no need to imagine things.

No need to as there been enough others reporting an uptick in bots around.

[Love Zhaoying]

Is it "unashamedly", or "unabashedly"?

@Scylla Rhiadra- paging an English expert. Lion dum.

[Ardy Lay]

8 hours ago, janetheslot said:

Is there a link to the report where current active users are shown?

Maybe:  api.secondlife.com/datafeeds/secondlife.xml

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is it "unashamedly", or "unabashedly"?

@Scylla Rhiadra- paging an English expert. Lion dum.

lol

Well, the denotative meanings of the words are very close: they can generally be used interchangeably.

However, "unashamed" tends to suggest a more passive response, where "unabashed" is more active, as though almost defiant.

Thus, if you are unashamed about something, you're more or less shrugging off any criticism it might evoke. But if you "unabashedly" doing something -- say, hold a particular opinion -- then it is more likely that you are almost daring people to criticize it.

I'd say in the context of this thread, that "unabashedly" is probably a bit closer to Phil's stance. But "unashamedly" is fine too. That's reinforced by the fact that he uses the adverbial form ("-ly"), which suggests consciously doing something. He's not just "unashamed" to be talking about bots: he is being a bit "in your face" and insistent ("unabashed") about it.

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

lol

Well, the denotative meanings of the words are very close: they can generally be used interchangeably.

However, "unashamed" tends to suggest a more passive response, where "unabashed" is more active, as though almost defiant.

Thus, if you are unashamed about something, you're more or less shrugging off any criticism it might evoke. But if you "unabashedly" doing something -- say, hold a particular opinion -- then it is more likely that you are almost daring people to criticize it.

I'd say in the context of this thread, that "unabashedly" is probably a bit closer to Phil's stance. But "unashamedly" is fine too. That's reinforced by the fact that he uses the adverbial form ("-ly"), which suggests consciously doing something. He's not just "unashamed" to be talking about bots: he is being a bit "in your face" and insistent ("unabashed") about it.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

Are you just ignoring critics? You're unashamed.

Are you flipping them the finger? You're unabashed.

Better?

[Luna Bliss]

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

/me is unabashed about her answer to Love's question, and Luna's response.

😏

[Skyler Pancake]

14 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I suspect they fall into 2 categories:

- Reputable Bot operators for grid surveys, etc.

- Companies like BB who most likely feel pressure to comply due to all the negative publicity.

Anyone else, why bother?

 

All of the BB bots were marked as Scripted Agents at the creation of the accounts. We had one of our accounts fraudulently reported as being unregistered and after much back and forth with LL we were able to get it unbanned, as it had never been registered as anything other than a Scripted Agent.

 

We've actually experimented with a number of different methods to identify if an account is a bot or not and if they're registered. I've helped a number of bot operators make sure their bots are actually registered and have reported a number of bot operators who clearly had no interest in registering their accounts. We are very much in support of people openly sharing information about their bots and the information the bots gather.. Sharing information about Second Life and how people use it is what we're all about after all.

 

As to bots being used to maintain the active user count.. Don't forget all the people who AFK. I used to stay logged in 24/7 for months at a time. There are also a LOT of accounts that aren't strictly bots but are left logged in for various reasons, including games such as Tiny Empire. I've talked with a number of people who keep multiple alt accounts logged in as well for various reasons, often times for RP. If your concurrent user count is being scrapped from the map, which is how most groups do it, then I'd suggest figuring at least 10-20k of the users online are not actual unique users.

 

The individual who I'd say has done the best to track bot accounts in SL is Lou Netizen. https://lounetizen.com Lou uses a number of methods to track and identify bot groups and has done an amazing job at cataloging them. Lou is also amazingly respectful about privacy, so if you do run one of the bot cohorts and want to clarify what your cohort does but doesn't want your name shared please do message Lou and talk with her!

Edited September 23, 2023 by Skyler Pancake
Expanding on topic of the post itself. Then further edits, cause Lou is awesome and needed metion.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

lol

Well, the denotative meanings of the words are very close: they can generally be used interchangeably.

However, "unashamed" tends to suggest a more passive response, where "unabashed" is more active, as though almost defiant.

Thus, if you are unashamed about something, you're more or less shrugging off any criticism it might evoke. But if you "unabashedly" doing something -- say, hold a particular opinion -- then it is more likely that you are almost daring people to criticize it.

I'd say in the context of this thread, that "unabashedly" is probably a bit closer to Phil's stance. But "unashamedly" is fine too. That's reinforced by the fact that he uses the adverbial form ("-ly"), which suggests consciously doing something. He's not just "unashamed" to be talking about bots: he is being a bit "in your face" and insistent ("unabashed") about it.

Thank you!

To better help my understanding, one may be illustrated as when a teenage lad is caught by his mother, doing what everyone knows boys his age do, and of course by that I mean perusing one of those magazines - an illustrated "Bot-Fanciers Monthly". (Despite his mum's predictable protests of, "what would the vicar say", and perhaps "how do you expect one day to find a good woman if you've got your nose in the bots".)

While, the other may be illustrated by a pensioner caught by his wife, tinkering in the shed with a bot - again - instead of helping with the chores, like he said he would.

How do those examples sound, as examples of where the two words could be used, in the context of a man merely pursuing a natural interest in Bots?

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Skyler Pancake said:

As to bots being used to maintain the active user count.. Don't forget all the people who AFK. I used to stay logged in 24/7 for months at a time. There are also a LOT of accounts that aren't strictly bots but are left logged in for various reasons, including games such as Tiny Empire. I've talked with a number of people who keep multiple alt accounts logged in as well for various reasons, often times for RP. If your concurrent user count is being scrapped from the map, which is how most groups do it, then I'd suggest figuring at least 10-20k of the users online are not actual unique users.

 

The individual who I'd say has done the best to track bot accounts in SL is Lou Netizen. https://lounetizen.com Lou uses a number of methods to track and identify bot groups and has done an amazing job at cataloging them. Lou is also amazingly respectful about privacy, so if you do run one of the bot cohorts and want to clarify what your cohort does but doesn't want your name shared please do message Lou and talk with her!

I would like to point out for anyone else reading the thread, that while the first part of your post responds to my quote, the remainder of your post (which I quoted above) is more generally about other points in the thread and not something I took issue with. I don't have a dog in the fight over "concurrent user counts".

[Phil Deakins]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Are you just ignoring critics? You're unashamed.

Are you flipping them the finger? You're unabashed.

In that case, 'unashamedly' is more applicable to the title of this thread

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thank you!

To better help my understanding, one may be illustrated as when a teenage lad is caught by his mother, doing what everyone knows boys his age do, and of course by that I mean perusing one of those magazines - an illustrated "Bot-Fanciers Monthly". (Despite his mum's predictable protests of, "what would the vicar say", and perhaps "how do you expect one day to find a good woman if you've got your nose in the bots".)

While, the other may be illustrated by a pensioner caught by his wife, tinkering in the shed with a bot - again - instead of helping with the chores, like he said he would.

How do those examples sound, as examples of where the two words could be used, in the context of a man merely pursuing a natural interest in Bots?

 

I am not competent to comment upon either of these instances, I'm afraid!

Sure?

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Skyler Pancake said:

I've [...] reported a number of bot operators who clearly had no interest in registering their accounts.

Bots do NOT have to be registered as scripted agents. Unless the bots you reported were staying in the same place, AND the land they were on was set to show in search, you were well out of order, and wasting LL's time.

ETA
I've now learned that all bots need to be registered, regardless of where they are.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Bots do NOT have to be registered as scripted agents. Unless the bots you reported were staying in the same place, AND the land they were on was set to show in search, you were well out of order, and wasting LL's time.

Quote

If you own a Second Life account primarily operating as a Scripted Agent, you must specify this on the Scripted Agent Status page. By identifying Scripted Agents, you help us give you more accurate account statistics and in-world search results.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Scripted_Agent_Policy

Edited September 23, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Phil Deakins]

@Scylla Rhiadra Oh. Things have changed since the scripted agent thing came out. Initially, it was introduced to avoid counting bots for traffic, and bots had to be registered if they were on land that's in search. I stand corrected.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

@Scylla Rhiadra Oh. Things have changed since the scripted agent thing came out. Initially, it was introduced to avoid counting bots for traffic, and bots had to be registered if they were on land that's in search. I stand corrected.

Yeah, this was in response to the furor over BBs. I thought you were around for that?

[Phil Deakins]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, this was in response to the furor over BBs. I thought you were around for that?

The BBs got going when I was out of SL for a couple of years, so I missed the change.

Another change I missed was LL actually wanting us to AR bots. Initially, they specifically said not to report them because they'll keep tabs on things themselves. I learned about that change not long ago

Edited September 23, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

The BBs got going when I was out of SL for a couple of years, so I missed the change.

Sorry, had I realized that, I'd have been a bit less matter-of-fact and abrupt in citing the regulation. My apologies, Phil.

[Phil Deakins]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sorry, had I realized that, I'd have been a bit less matter-of-fact and abrupt in citing the regulation. My apologies, Phil.

Nooo. I perceived nothing negative in your post. Nothing at all. Just sharing a fact was the way I read it.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Phil Deakins