Should I put my real-life gender in my woman avatars' profiles?

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

   I don't think anyone has said that your avatar must appear to be of a similar age to your real self, just as no one has said that you can't have an avatar of the opposite gender - it becomes deceptive when you claim that it is, when it isn't. 

   Besides, since when are saggy 65-year olds not 'hot'? 

"It becomes deceptive when you claim that it is, when it isn't." This. Why is this breast-beating rocket-science, or so it appears by the rhetoric I've managed to read here (which is admittedly small because: eye bleeds). Or what Phil said a little while ago? Or as I dumbed it down, "Just don't try to be an a-hole."

She's 81, btw ↓

Edited August 24, 2023 by Seicher Rae

[Arwyn Quandry]

5 hours ago, Daphne Dench said:

I am very glad that I read this, and I am shocked about what I read here.

All that you guys have proven to me, with your posts here, is why my friendslist is this short, and why I do not connect with so many in Second Life. Why they feel to me like they are frauds. 

The answer seems to be: Because they are! 

If everyone is a fraud, and so many do not want to level with their co-citizens, how can friendships even begin to start. 

It appears to me that most of you are not adult enough to even live with themselves, let alone with others. 

And it also explains to me why so many are suspicious. One trusts others like oneself is. 

With what I read here above, it seems to me that you guys are ruining a very beautiful world, called Second Life. And not only that, you also proove to me you hold in contempt everyone you meet there.  

Daphne Dench - August 24 2023 

I'm so sorry to inform you that the dog avatar you met is, in all likelihood, not really a dog. 

But seriously. SL is about fantasy. We're not here to be perfect representations of our real life selves. We're expressing a part of ourselves that we can't in the real world, whether that's by being a different height and weight, hair color, species, or gender. If that makes someone a fraud, I'd recommend not bothering with the internet at all, because it's going to be nothing but frauds all the way down. 

[Orwar]

2 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

She's 81, btw ↓

   .. Not saggy enough! Huffs.

[Seicher Rae]

PS to @Orwar's comment about your avatar reflecting your RL age. Even if you really wanted to, it is next to impossible to create a quality "mature" female avatar, or was the last time I tried. The BOM "wrinkles" are awful. Trying to be "naturally" not "perky" is impossible without looking like a caricature. It is an easier option for guys and always has been.

But since we can be anything we want in SL, including non-human, why the huge deal about gender (unless you are trying to deceive and hurt and manipulate the RL operators behind the other monitors)? Then again, I have some interesting stories about the time I walked around in a gorgeous black female avatar pixel suit.  Oh, wait, this is more of that misanthropy-fuel, isn't it?! Never mind...

[Daphne Dench]

You all had this Second World to make something more beautiful out of it than the first one is, you all had new people from around the world to interact with, and read here above what many of you have done with these wonderful opportunities.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 hours ago, Daphne Dench said:

I am very glad that I read this, and I am shocked about what I read here.

All that you guys have proven to me, with your posts here, is why my friendslist is this short, and why I do not connect with so many in Second Life. Why they feel to me like they are frauds. 

The answer seems to be: Because they are! 

If everyone is a fraud, and so many do not want to level with their co-citizens, how can friendships even begin to start. 

It appears to me that most of you are not adult enough to even live with themselves, let alone with others. 

And it also explains to me why so many are suspicious. One trusts others like oneself is. 

With what I read here above, it seems to me that you guys are ruining a very beautiful world, called Second Life. And not only that, you also proove to me you hold in contempt everyone you meet there.  

Daphne Dench - August 24 2023 

 They don't listen when I speak up; they're not listening now. I doubt they ever will.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

 Besides, since when are saggy 65-year olds not 'hot'? 

Since gravity takes over at 60. 🤬

[Ayashe Ninetails]

At last login, I was a purple and gold fairy dragon with wings and a glow in the dark tail rocking a sparkling jumpsuit.

A few days ago, a frog in a green frog hoodie dress with green and white roller skates, a leaf umbrella with frogs chilling on it, and a kitten sitting on a wreath of flowers perched on my head.

Yeah, I *could* run around as a human with my actual age/gender/height/weight/shoe size on display but...why?

[Silent Mistwalker]

30 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   .. Not saggy enough! Huffs.

And highly shopped. Prison tends to age a person.

[Daphne Dench]

The primary post, thus the discussion, is not about how your avi looks, it is about what is in your profile about your real life gender and age.

So please, to make this conversation meaningful, stick to the questions asked.

[Seicher Rae]

13 minutes ago, Daphne Dench said:

You all had this Second World to make something more beautiful out of it than the first one is, you all had new people from around the world to interact with, and read here above what many of you have done with these wonderful opportunities.

Well, maybe "many of you have done" isn't really "many." First off, the percentage of folks who post here versus the number actually inworld is small.

I think quite a few people (I'm making the stats up, because I can), the vast majority who use SL regularly and for quite some time, have a wonderful, beautiful, creative SL, and we've used it to create things not possible for us in our 3D RLs (and some things that are). I'm not a Pollyanna, by any means, but the negativity in this thread isn't indicative of the whole forum or the inworld population. In my experience anyways.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Daphne Dench said:

The primary post, thus the discussion, is not about how your avi looks, it is about what is in your profile about your real life gender and age.

So please, to make this conversation meaningful, stick to the questions asked.

There hasn't been several on topic conversations for the past 31 pages? How could I have missed that reading this thread every day?

[Seicher Rae]

6 minutes ago, Daphne Dench said:

The primary post, thus the discussion, is not about how your avi looks, it is about what is in your profile about your real life gender and age.

So please, to make this conversation meaningful, stick to the questions asked.

I see you have 3 posts to your name, so perhaps you don't know that this is a monitored Forum, where people paid by LL actually decide these matters. We rarely need volunteer hall monitors, but thank you for your concern.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

The OP's question about profile information was answered about 30 pages ago (and maybe a few dozen times since then - I've lost track). 😄

[Seicher Rae]

10 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

The OP's question about profile information was answered about 30 pages ago (and maybe a few dozen times since then - I've lost track). 😄

Well, that one, taken verbatim does lend itself to a fast answer or three: yes/no/maybe.
From what I can see, the discussion (that I have NOT followed for 32 pages because: sane), has flowed around very related topics, and expanded, but not bounced totally off tangent, even now, with the peed-in-cornflakes crowd.

[Persephone Emerald]

6 hours ago, Daphne Dench said:

I am very glad that I read this, and I am shocked about what I read here.

All that you guys have proven to me, with your posts here, is why my friendslist is this short, and why I do not connect with so many in Second Life. Why they feel to me like they are frauds. 

The answer seems to be: Because they are! 

If everyone is a fraud, and so many do not want to level with their co-citizens, how can friendships even begin to start. 

It appears to me that most of you are not adult enough to even live with themselves, let alone with others. 

And it also explains to me why so many are suspicious. One trusts others like oneself is. 

With what I read here above, it seems to me that you guys are ruining a very beautiful world, called Second Life. And not only that, you also proove to me you hold in contempt everyone you meet there.  

Daphne Dench - August 24 2023 

It's hard to paint a realistic picture when you're using such a wide brush.

Many people in SL don't put anything in their profiles, but those of us who do are in no way required to put in our RL information. SL is a cartton fantasy world where we can be whatever we can imagine. It is not Facebook, where users are expected to use their real name - even if they live in a dangerously repressive country. It is not an online dating site. It is not Linkedin or any other site that expects real world information about it's users. In fact, it is against the TOS to out other users RL information without their permission to do so.

Fantasy roleplay is no more deception than acting is. When you watch a movie, do you expect the actors to be their real selves? 

If one chooses to use the 1st Life page of their profile, then I think the information they put there should be true, but it certainly doesn't have to reveal anything they don't want to reveal publicly.

If they find themself getting into an emotionally close relationship with someone else in SL, then I think they should reveal those RL aspects about themself that the other person would want to know or else tell them they won't disclose these things. Lying at this point would be deceitful and unfair to someone they supposedly care about.

If we're just playing a fantasy character and not trying to misrepresent ourself in order to take advantage of someone else, then we don't owe them any of our RL information.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Seicher Rae said:

Well, that one, taken verbatim does lend itself to a fast answer or three: yes/no/maybe.
From what I can see, the discussion (that I have NOT followed for 32 pages because: sane), has flowed around very related topics, and expanded, but not bounced totally off tangent, even now, with the peed-in-cornflakes crowd.

It's all mostly been related to gender and profiles and gender relations and being honest. Somewhat. I think.

[Seicher Rae]

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If one chooses to use the 1st Life page of their profile, then I think the information they put there should be true, but it certainly doesn't have to reveal anything they don't want to reveal publicly.

 

This is one of those slightly tangential bounces from the OP, but it very much ties in:

Am I the only one who HATES seeing RL photos of people on First Life pages? I prefer to interact with the avatar, with no nefarious agenda on my part, I think my brain is just too stupid to hold two images of one person in my head simultaneously.   But I was beyond "not happy" when I first met Da5id and there he has a RL photo on his. Grrrr.. OK. I'm now over that.  (Also I think it is his Forum photo, but those are so small...)  When I have had a human photo on my 1st Life, it has been a tongue-in-cheek one of a very cheesecake Scarlett Johansson (and I'd still get the "omg! Is that YOU???" IMs... smh).(And of course I'd answer, "Yes, yes it is!" because I can't always not be an a-hole. )

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Daphne Dench said:

You all had this Second World to make something more beautiful out of it than the first one is, you all had new people from around the world to interact with, and read here above what many of you have done with these wonderful opportunities.

When dealing with expectations (whether 2nd life is or should be real life vs fantasy life), context is everything. Context in this case meaning the places within 2nd life you are visiting, and the people you are interacting with. There is no one solution that is right for everyone, and at every place.

Personally, I go back and forth between places where fantasy is more the norm and places where 1st life is more the norm.

For example, perhaps you would be more comfortable within areas of 2nd life where more 1st life is expected, like Whole Brain Health (based from the Ageless Mind Project) where many events take place to keep our brains healthy into old age. There are games, music events, classes, and previously a project to teach people from a couple other countries how to navigate virtual worlds.

https://www.agelessmindproject.org/

https://www.virtualwholebrainhealth.org/calwbh/

At Whole Brain Health there is a meeting twice a month named Death Cafe, where we discuss death. You can come as any little creature/avatar you wish, but it is expected that you'll be discussing 1st life feelings about death. Many have lost spouses or siblings in 1st life, for example, and appreciate having a supportive space to discuss this.
So you see in this example a kind of mixed fantasy/reality -- an animal avatar, but 1st life feelings are expected. However it's not required to share any 1st life info someone doesn't want to disclose (age, 1st life location, gender, etc.).

So all this is to say that it doesn't have to be all one way or the other (all 1st life vs all fantasy). It's about preferences, and negotiating with the person you're relating to and learning the expectations of the space you are encountering... when necessary.  This can only be discovered on a case-by-case basis, as it's a fluid process with no set boundaries in most cases. Again, there is no absolute truth for every person, and Gopi is deciding his own truth in this thread as he ponders the feedback he's receiving.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Daphne Dench]

I agree with: 

"In fact, it is against the TOS to out other users RL information without their permission to do so."

And even this rule is not repected by 90 procent of SL's citizens, not even by LL people. 

SL can be a fantasy world, but it does not give you the right to play games with other people's power(s) of observation. As a person you should know the borders of playing games with other people's feelings. 

[Persephone Emerald]

As Luna mentions above, there are areas or groups within SL where presenting information about one's real life is expected. Any mental health support group would be an example where the avatar doesn't have to look like a RL person, but the discussion would be about real issues and feelings. In meetings for the Circle Mental Health support group and the Lighthouse Mental Health support group, avatars frequently show up as furries, child avatars, or other fantasy avatars, but they talk about their real selves.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Persephone Emerald
Typos

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Daphne Dench said:

SL can be a fantasy world, but it does not give you the right to play games with other people's power(s) of observation. As a person you should know the borders of playing games with other people's feelings.

I get the impression you have been severely hurt by people you believe were playing with your feelings.  I suggest coming to Empowering Relationships, a group meeting @ Whole Brain Health every Wednesday @ 10am, led by a 1st life counselor, where we discuss these issues. Lots of people are there discussing all types of relationships within 2nd life...how they were hurt, and/or how to have more fulfilling experiences.  Ping me inworld and I'll send a LM.

[Love Zhaoying]

28 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Am I the only one who HATES seeing RL photos of people on First Life pages?

Especially n00ds and/or l00se pictures..like, "is that even you? How inappropriate!"

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Daphne Dench said:

I agree with: 

"In fact, it is against the TOS to out other users RL information without their permission to do so."

And even this rule is not repected by 90 procent of SL's citizens, not even by LL people. 

SL can be a fantasy world, but it does not give you the right to play games with other people's power(s) of observation. As a person you should know the borders of playing games with other people's feelings. 

We can't really know what other people observe, expect or infer in SL - or anywhere really. Some people read profiles. Some don't. Some can tell when a person is in character. Some can't. Some expect SL to be a fantasy platform. Some expect it to be a real life social platform. The best we can do is to talk with each other and try to clear up misunderstandings when we encounter them. 

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

meetings

Can you list more regions/meetings dealing with 1st life?  I pretty much stay within Whole Brain Health activities and various regions/meetings that deal with meditation and the like. I know there's a lot of art & photography groups/events and places to learn various activities in both 1st and 2nd lives (Rockcliffe University is adjacent to the Whole Brain Health sims, and Builder's Brewery has lots of classes).

Anyway, @Daphne Dench, at these types of places you'll meet people who experience 2nd life in a less fantasy-type way.