Should Merchants Be Required To Post Clothing Comlplexity On The Marketplace?

[Perrie Juran]

Perhaps the horse has been out of the barn too long but shouldn't Merchants be required to post the complexity of the clothes and other wearables they sell on the marketplace.

All of us pay attention to the Land Impact of rezzables we buy.  Why not the impact of the clothes we buy also?

Most of us live by the mantra, "No demo, no sale." But beyond checking how good clothes actually look by demoing,  how many of us look at the complexity before we buy?

Having to list the complexity would bring more awareness to the issue and also finally embarrass some merchants into being more serious about optimizing their offerings.

It could make for a better SL for all of us.

 

[StrykerHawk]

3 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

Perhaps the horse has been out of the barn too long but shouldn't Merchants be required to post the complexity of the clothes and other wearables they sell on the marketplace.

All of us pay attention to the Land Impact of rezzables we buy.  Why not the impact of the clothes we buy also?

Most of us live by the mantra, "No demo, no sale." But beyond checking how good clothes actually look by demoing,  how many of us look at the complexity before we buy?

Having to list the complexity would bring more awareness to the issue and also finally embarrass some merchants into being more serious about optimizing their offerings.

It could make for a better SL for all of us.

 

What complexity are you talking about?  I have never paid any attention to it.

[Marigold Devin]

40 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

Perhaps the horse has been out of the barn too long but shouldn't Merchants be required to post the complexity of the clothes and other wearables they sell on the marketplace.

All of us pay attention to the Land Impact of rezzables we buy.  Why not the impact of the clothes we buy also?

Most of us live by the mantra, "No demo, no sale." But beyond checking how good clothes actually look by demoing,  how many of us look at the complexity before we buy?

Having to list the complexity would bring more awareness to the issue and also finally embarrass some merchants into being more serious about optimizing their offerings.

It could make for a better SL for all of us.

 

I don't care if they do or don't include the complexity of their clothes, because my dear Perrie, as long as my bum doesn't look big in it, I don't give a hoot what the complexity is. 😆

Edited July 20, 2023 by Marigold Devin
to add an emoji because I sounded terse when I was not meaning to, love ya Perrie

[Luna Bliss]

13 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

Perhaps the horse has been out of the barn too long but shouldn't Merchants be required to post the complexity of the clothes and other wearables they sell on the marketplace.

All of us pay attention to the Land Impact of rezzables we buy.  Why not the impact of the clothes we buy also?

Most of us live by the mantra, "No demo, no sale." But beyond checking how good clothes actually look by demoing,  how many of us look at the complexity before we buy?

Having to list the complexity would bring more awareness to the issue and also finally embarrass some merchants into being more serious about optimizing their offerings.

It could make for a better SL for all of us.

 

I'd like that, although, like you say, it is possible to check that from the Demo.

My friend couldn't even get into a wonderful performance by the Spirit Light Dance Company the other week due to having a high complexity (think it was her flexi-hair).

The thing is, when people don't pay attention to this it degrades the experience for all. 

I set my max to 200,000 and if people exceed that they are just a grey blob in my viewer.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

Because my dear Perrie, as long as my bum doesn't look big in it, I don't give a hoot what the complexity is.

It would be nice if you cared about how you affect others...and not just think of yourself.

[Marigold Devin]

12 minutes ago, StrykerHawk said:

What complexity are you talking about?  I have never paid any attention to it.

That's two of us then. 

It didn't even get mentioned for the first (I don't know how many years) of my time in Second Life. It's just another fun-sucker, if I have to watch what I wear in a virtual reality situation, when it's bad enough having to separate my rubbish in real life into various bins (peeve).

I'm a wash and go kinda gal, and don't over-complicate my life with accessories or fancy bits, so I doubt my avatar's complexity is all that high anyway. I don't tend to go to busy places, and no one has ever remarked to me that my avatar complexity is high, so I guess it's not.

[StrykerHawk]

4 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

That's two of us then. 

It didn't even get mentioned for the first (I don't know how many years) of my time in Second Life. It's just another fun-sucker, if I have to watch what I wear in a virtual reality situation, when it's bad enough having to separate my rubbish in real life into various bins (peeve).

I'm a wash and go kinda gal, and don't over-complicate my life with accessories or fancy bits, so I doubt my avatar's complexity is all that high anyway. I don't tend to go to busy places, and no one has ever remarked to me that my avatar complexity is high, so I guess it's not.

I am a plug and play sort of guy.  I don't think my complexity is high either.  

[Rowan Amore]

27 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

Perhaps the horse has been out of the barn too long but shouldn't Merchants be required to post the complexity of the clothes and other wearables they sell on the marketplace.

All of us pay attention to the Land Impact of rezzables we buy.  Why not the impact of the clothes we buy also?

Most of us live by the mantra, "No demo, no sale." But beyond checking how good clothes actually look by demoing,  how many of us look at the complexity before we buy?

Having to list the complexity would bring more awareness to the issue and also finally embarrass some merchants into being more serious about optimizing their offerings.

It could make for a better SL for all of us.

 

Personally, I always check complexity and the triangle count before purchasing anything.  I've passed up a few simple dresses that shot the triangle count up 500,000 and why I've stopped buying or using hair from one long-time popular merchant.

ETA...my complexity rarely goes above 60K and the triangle stay between 400K-600K.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

It's just another fun-sucker, if I have to watch what I wear in a virtual reality situation, when it's bad enough having to separate my rubbish in real life into various bins (peeve).

It would be a fun-sucker for those attending various events if they couldn't see the event properly...hence their requirement.

Just like mesh creators need to do their part by creating decent mesh, going the extra mile to learn it correctly so all will have a better experience, residents can do their part by paying attention too excessive complexity and reducing it when possible. 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

shot the triangle count up 500,000

Dear God, I think they've have to deliberately work at it to get it that high..lol.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Dear God, I think they've have to deliberately work at it to get it that high..lol.

I know!  It was a simple tank dress, too.  

[Perrie Juran]

36 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

I don't care if they do or don't include the complexity of their clothes, because my dear Perrie, as long as my bum doesn't look big in it, I don't give a hoot what the complexity is. 😆

Well, as the saying goes,  "The bigger the cushion, the better the pushin."   

 

[SabrinaCooke]

Should Merchants Be Required To Post Clothing Complexity On The Marketplace?

Yes.

[StrykerHawk]

4 minutes ago, Perrie Juran said:

Well, as the saying goes,  "The bigger the cushion, the better the pushin."   

 

I thought it was more cushion for the pushing 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

47 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'd like that, although, like you say, it is possible to check that from the Demo.

My friend couldn't even get into a wonderful performance by the Spirit Light Dance Company the other week due to having a high complexity (think it was her flexi-hair).

The thing is, when people don't pay attention to this it degrades the experience for all. 

I set my max to 200,000 and if people exceed that they are just a grey blob in my viewer.

I set my max to 20 k, i'm surrounded by grey jellies wherever I go. I usually see the system avi fully , but as soon as the mesh body loads, they go grey.

I selectively fully render people one at a time.

To be honest, sometimes the grey blob looks better. 😂

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Perrie Juran said:

Perhaps the horse has been out of the barn too long but shouldn't Merchants be required to post the complexity of the clothes and other wearables they sell on the marketplace.

All of us pay attention to the Land Impact of rezzables we buy.  Why not the impact of the clothes we buy also?

Most of us live by the mantra, "No demo, no sale." But beyond checking how good clothes actually look by demoing,  how many of us look at the complexity before we buy?

Having to list the complexity would bring more awareness to the issue and also finally embarrass some merchants into being more serious about optimizing their offerings.

It could make for a better SL for all of us.

 

Firestorm tells you whenever your complexity changes, its easy to put something on , then take it off again to see how complex the item is.

I strive to keep my complexity to under 150 K 😁

[Ceka Cianci]

I thought complexity was not really what we should be looking at more than triangles..Last decade it was arch or ARC or whatever that one was that we were supossed to be paying attention to, but that wasn't it we found out later.. now I hear complexity isn't but rather triangles are..

Until I know what I should be concerned with, I'm just not gonna be concerned.. hehehe

[Tarani Tempest]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Firestorm tells you whenever your complexity changes, its easy to put something on , then take it off again to see how complex the item is.

I strive to keep my complexity to under 150 K 😁

Firestorm shows each object attachment's complexity on the Appearance window; wearing tab

[ChinRey]

No!

The avatar rendering complexity number is just a joke and does not in any way reflect how heavy an avatar actually is to render. Look at this post on Beq's blog: http://beqsother.blogspot.com/2022/03/how-to-use-new-firestorm-performance.html

Scroll down to illustration no. 7 on the page. It's a list of the avatars that were in the area when Beq did the test with their ARC numbers and the actual render time they took. The most telling comparasion is perhaps between the first and 14th avatar on the list: A third of the ARC = three times as high actual render cost!

If I understand Beq right, LL has done some tweaks after that test to make the ARC figures a little bit closer to the truth but only a little bit - a drop in the ocean.

Now, if LL had adopted Beq's code for measuring actual render load or something similar to calculate ARC, I would have agreed it would be a good idea. But they haven't and they won't. As it is now, ARC is just a way to shame and block people with perfectly safe and sound low lag avatars and let the big "offenders" go free.

Edited July 21, 2023 by ChinRey

[Luna Bliss]

19 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

the big "offenders"

What would most likely create a big offender?

And do you know, do particles actually create lag for people?  I had to take off my particles at that event where they tried to optimize the experience... some cute little crescent moon particles floating out of me, and it was traumatizing.

[Arielle Popstar]

What ChinRey said. The whole complexity thing is bogus and for those lowering their complexity setting to seeing grey blobs, you are fooling yourself if you think it saves much of a load on your viewer. It makes minimal difference. Not worth worrying about. May as well set to no limit complexity.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What ChinRey said. The whole complexity thing is bogus and for those lowering their complexity setting to seeing grey blobs, you are fooling yourself if you think it saves much of a load on your viewer. It makes minimal difference. Not worth worrying about. May as well set to no limit complexity.

Hmmm...I think I'll go by what LL says, and the system they set up....who is this Beq being touted as the God of SL with all knowledge?

Edited July 21, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Hmmm...I think I'll go by what LL says, and they system they set up....who is this Beq being touted as the God ofSL with all knowledge?

LL admitted it in a couple of the TPV meetings I attended when Oz was still head of it. If I could be bothered I would look through my Meeting logs to see if I could find it but Beq's blog more then likely verifies it and is a more credible source as she explains the technical details.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Hmmm...I think I'll go by what LL says, and they system they set up....who is this Beq being touted as the God ofSL with all knowledge?

LL admitted it in a couple of the TPV meetings I attended when Oz was still head of it. If I could be bothered I would look through my Meeting logs to see if I could find it but Beq's blog more then likely verifies it and is a more credible source as she explains the technical details.

Do does this mean I bring in laggy-assed mesh and not take the trouble of optimizing it?

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Do does this mean I bring in laggy-assed mesh and not take the trouble of optimizing it?

Optimize it sure but no sense in denying yourself the view of others who might have a high complexity. If LL had really been concerned they would have allowed a resident to limit the range of avatars seen like the draw distance does with the builds.