Firestorm Community Viewer Survey

[Arrehn Oberlander]

SL Users, we need your help!

A few new features have been proposed for the Firestorm community viewer for Second Life(tm). These proposed features have stirred some debate and we've decided to ask for greater feedback from the SL community.

Based on the popularity of the other community viewers we've created,  we believe these features will have an impact on your SL experience regardless of what viewer you currently use. Many of the issues are social interactions, and are not just about technology. This is why this post is in this forum, and not the technology forum.

Please fill out this survey if you have time!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ZKPT7Z8

If you want to know more about the Firestorm community viewer for Second Life, which is registered and listed with Linden Lab, you can read more here: http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.com/2011/06/firestorm-public-beta-has-arrived.html

 

[Deltango Vale]

I will gladly fill out the questionnaire, but I think I can say what is at the top of everyone's list: eliminating the sidebar completely and moving all those tabs to the bottom bar as optional buttons. This includes media controls. It has been the sidebar above all else that has crippled the adoption of V2.

I personally am eager to upgrade to Firestorm, but only when there is a clean, functional interface.

[Arrehn Oberlander]

Have you tried the Firestorm Beta? The sidebar is optional and all the tabs have been moved to the the bottom bar as optional, moveable buttons.

[Void Singer]

I'm waiting for some of the bug fixes and features present in newer versions of both Phoenix and V2, but my intention is to probably upgrade to FS when it stabilizes.

[WADE1 Jya]

The sidebar elimination is genius.... but some of the proposed features in the survey are just privacy invasions? I don't see why different TPV developers keep thinking this stuff might be cool.... I think in the long run a viewer will be much more popular (and long-lasting) if it respects all users privacy to the utmost.

Respecting all user's privacy also ensures minimal drama/infighting within the Second Life community.

There will always be a crowd that clamors loudly for the more stalkerish tools but lets not cater to them :matte-motes-grin:

[Tiffy Vella]

I'm really enjoying Firestorm, and hoping for great things in it's future. It's the friendliest V2 version I've found.....(runs off to do survey)

[Void Singer]

the "privacy invasions" are also useful tools for knowing when it's safe to send certain types of inventory to avatars,and can serve other positive purposes as well for merchants and venue owners. And they can also be done easily by script... and by easy I mean like 3 lines or less for complete noobs.

the best way to combat drama is not to get involved in it, not jump to conclusions, and drop people like hot rocks that do those things.

[Phil Deakins]

I've never looked at Firestorm and I won't look until the cam controls are very much like the V1 cam controls; i.e. translucent when not in focus, moveable, and small. Has that been done in Firestorm?

[Ossian1488303077]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I've never looked at Firestorm and I won't look until the cam controls are very much like the V1 cam controls; i.e. translucent when not in focus, moveable, and small. Has that been done in Firestorm?

---

You can determine how translucent/opaque you want the windows, when they have focus and not.

The cam controls are like the V1 controls.

There is a tutorial video that runs through some of the features: http://www.youtube.com/user/PhoenixViewerSL#p/u/0/IqpPOoi3I7c

[Ossian1488303077]

I tried Firestorm back when it was a preview, and after half an hour I realized I'd forgotten that I was just trying it out.

I didn't switch then because it didn't have the built-in AO and radar.

The beta has both those things, and they are amazingly better than Phoenix.

The Phoenix AO was easy to use, but the Firestorm is even easier and more powerful.

The Firestorm radar not only has the Phoenix features, but it also has tabs for your groups and friend lists,
and it's easier to change groups.

I've completely switched over.

It does have some V2 stuff that hopefully will be fixed, like the toasts. You CAN make IMs and msgs show in your
chat window, and you can turn off toasts, but some notifications follow the V2 style of popping up in the lower right,
which makes them easy to miss. But like I said, that's a V2 thing.  Hopefully the Firestorm team will find a better
solution for that.

[Ansariel Hiller]

---

Ossian wrote:

The Firestorm radar not only has the Phoenix features, but it also has tabs for your groups and friend lists,

and it's easier to change groups.

---

That is not  a feature but still some left-over of the completely revamped nearby people sidebar panel. It is planned to give the radar also a separate window, because resizing the window to make it fit in a screen corner as done by many people has unpleasant side-effects on the other tabs.

[Hippie Bowman]

I took the survey!  I downloaded firestorm the other day, and for first impressions, I really like it!  Great job, and bravo!

 

Peace!

[Ian Undercroft]

I switched to the Firestorm Beta last weekend, having been using Kirstens S21 for several months. I switched because Kirstens in its latest 2 versions seems to have taken a dislike to my video card.

I'm happy with Firestorm Beta. It's a nice viewer to use. However, I think some people are a little too ready to lavish praise. I notice the inbuilt AO and that the radar/nearby people function provides ages and payment info. Otherwise any differences which may exist between Firestorm and Kirstens S21 are so minor as to be lost on me. For example, Kirstens S21 had solved the troublesome sidebar issue in similar manner to Firestorm months ago.

 

[Arrehn Oberlander]

 

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I've never looked at Firestorm and I won't look until the cam controls are very much like the V1 cam controls; i.e. translucent when not in focus, moveable, and small. Has that been done in Firestorm?

---

Yes, this has been the case for a while. You should really look! Firestorm has all the features of V2 + a whole ton of improvements and options from Phoenix, plus many of its own innovations. Firestorm has the best viewer AO on the grid! Check out some fo the feature list at: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/doku.php?id=firestorm_2.5.1.16671public_beta_release_notes_6_14_2011

The public Beta release is stable. We're calling it Beta because not every Phoenix feature has been ported yet, there are still many to go. On the stability side it's currently ranked by LL second amount all third party viewers, second only to V1 Phoenix.

[Maryanne Solo]

I can't find how to turn voice dot off and I havent found the radar yet. Sound was on and full volume by default which scared the living daylights out of me I still cant find the clothes making bits or how to fly.

Maybe I should READ THE WIKI perhaps?? :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

I am thinking the privacy things mentioned in the survey might only create drama?

[Phil Deakins]

Thank you, Arrehn. The V2 does have a couple of excellent features the favourites bar and the outfits system) so, since the cam controls are dealt with, and the sidebar is also dealt with, as mentioned in this thread, I'll download it and give it a go.

[Ceka Cianci]

i have used firestorm since the first pre alpha was given to the group..it's been what i use and most stable of them all for me so far..

even more than the V1's that i was using...

things rezzed really fast and i can't remember ever crashing in it..

 

From the survey what i see in those things you have listed is when someone is wishing to have some privacy from others..

i don't believe it is good if someone decides to put themselves on hide that we shoudl be able to overried that..

 

i'm sure a lot may want this feature..but  when i decide i just want to hang out at my home or go someplace where i don't wish to disclose to anyone..it should be nobodies business but mine..

there is a lack of privacy in SL as it is..i don't think it is a good idea to add to the holes..

i don't really see anything useful  to finding someone online that has decided they wish not to be seen for awhile or maybe to certain people..

sure there may be tools on sl for this already..but if it were my product i wouldn't want to  be put in the catagory with them..just saying..

 

 

[Freya Mokusei]

---

Void Singer wrote:

the best way to combat drama is not to get involved in it, not jump to conclusions, and drop people like hot rocks that do those things.

---

I hate to pounce on this, since I'm aware of the wonderful work you do, but I do take exception to this statement. It's nothing personal, but I've seen this view expressed elsewhere and it's invalid.

Saying "get better friends" doesn't help anyone when the functionality is being pushed into peoples' view by the viewer. The viewer is a part of of SL culture (boob-physics, media privacy, Emeraldgate), and people use it to determine what is 'socially acceptable'. People will use these features regardless of how drama-avoidant people would be otherwise.

 

It's hard not to take the phrase 'X isn't friends with you anymore.' personally.

It's hard not to ask someone WHY they think they need to hide their online status from you.

 

Sure, people can use hacks and tricks to find out these things using standard LSL. People could make a list of their friends and check against it to see who's been deleting them. But how many people do that routinely? Feel free to post in contradiction if you do.

The difference is that by putting the features in the viewer, you encourage people to use them as standard (case in point, Show LookAt, since being publicised by Emerald, is now a feature many people use daily).

 

Before Emerald included the features mentioned in this survey, I'd never ONCE* heard someone complain about a hidden status or removed friendship, now it seems people complain every other day. People need a viewer that ENCOURAGES cohesion within the community, rather than one that draws your attention to negative events.

 

* I'm sure they happened, but in much smaller numbers that never made it to my ears.

[Dresden Ceriano]

I could personally care less about most of the "controversial" features, but my view is why not? As Void stated, you can easily script something to do the exact same things... you simply can't hide when you're in SL. I can see how it might cause people to start creating all kinds of immature drama but that's on them, not the viewer. Perhaps the way to go would be to have them included as options but turned off by default. Then maybe people who would have to go out of their way to activate them would be less inclined to use them.

The one thing that I believe should definitely be included is the OTR encryption, I don't see how this is controversial in the least. If I and the person I'm speaking with wish to keep our conversation private we should be able to. This hurts no one... in fact it doesn't effect anyone except the people using it and LL. And if LL had a problem with it they'd have banned it's use long ago.

Of all these "controversial" features, all of which deal with privacy issues, the OTR is really the only one that gives anyone any protection. The others can be easily worked around and therefore leaving them out could be see as giving people a false sense of security.

...Dres

[Ceka Cianci]

i would agree that those tools should be a two way street..

a way to shut it off if it is used or even maybe a way to shut those kinds of scripts from seeing us would be a good feature if it were possible..

i just think they would be sending the opposite message than they did with the media filters if it were a one way street and there was no way to shut it off..

 

it has nothing to do with drama for me..drama doesn't really phase me..they spit out their jibber and go on ignore as many times as they choose..stalkers i could care less..they won't find a victim here..

it's just sometimes i like to be alone and no distractions while building something or working on something or just hanging with some friends..

 

all that is gonna happen is if i put myself on hide and someone sneaks around the feature..i'm just gonna add them to ignore for good for being a sneaky lil rat that i don't need to be knowing anyways..

 

i just don't understand why people  want to be so nosey is all when they don't like someone being so nosey to them..

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

Just wanted to say, I completely understand people's aversion to these features (besides OTR), on the one side, they can feel like an invasion, on the other, having them at your fingertips makes them hard to resist at times. Hence my idea to have them turned off by default.

What really needs to happen is LL has to make it possible to actually be hidden online, so that these features wouldn't even work anymore. I'm really not sure if that's possible to do even if they wanted to. Perhaps someone else knows *waves at Void*.

...Dres

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

i would agree that those tools should be a two way street..

a way to shut it off if it is used or even maybe a way to shut those kinds of scripts from seeing us would be a good feature if it were possible..

i just think they would be sending the opposite message than they did with the media filters if it were a one way street and there was no way to shut it off..

 

it has nothing to do with drama for me..drama doesn't really phase me..they spit out their jibber and go on ignore as many times as they choose..stalkers i could care less..they won't find a victim here..

it's just sometimes i like to be alone and no distractions while building something or working on something or just hanging with some friends..

 

all that is gonna happen is if i put myself on hide and someone sneaks around the feature..i'm just gonna add them to ignore for good for being a sneaky lil rat that i don't need to be knowing anyways..

 

i just don't understand why people  want to be so nosey is all when they don't like someone being so nosey to them..

 

---

I agree, especially the last line. I don't care personally if these things are included or not, besides the OTR (do I really need to keep saying that... lol).

...Dres

[Ceka Cianci]

the only thing i don't like about that OTR is how long it takes to get a conversation going ..sometimes it fails and the message is never seen or takes awhile to get there..

it may have changed since i used it last..it may run better now than  before..i just remember being more frustrated with having to talk with someone in IM's because of it back when it first was used in emerald..

 

[Freya Mokusei]

Appreciate your reply (despite the minor worry everyone would miss me, being the last on the page ).

I think they're impossible to resist. I used Emerald for a week or two at some stage, and found my partner at the time had hidden two of their alts from me. This was entirely their choice, and I trusted that they'd made the correct call. I never questioned the choice or even made clear that I knew the accounts were hidden. I'm not that type. But knowing they were hidden, what was I supposed to think? In what way did that information improve my Second Life experience?

OTR, I'm also against. If you're using LL servers, what you're doing has to be auditable by LL. It's the only way for LL to ensure that they're keeping in-line with various worldwide laws on fraud monitoring and other criminal investigations. Sure it's not a crime to use, but it puts them in an awkward position that I don't think is fair. And honestly, I'm of the opinion that the only people who need to hide IMs from LL, are those who shouldn't be using SL to chat.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Freya Mokusei wrote:

OTR, I'm also against. If you're using LL servers, what you're doing has to be auditable by LL. It's the only way for LL to ensure that they're keeping in-line with various worldwide laws on fraud monitoring and other criminal investigations. Sure it's not a crime to use, but it puts them in an awkward position that I don't think is fair. And honestly, I'm of the opinion that the only people who need to hide IMs from LL, are those who shouldn't be using SL to chat.

---

If this is such an issue LL would have already banned it's use. If there was any possibility that LL would get in legal trouble over it, don't you think they'd have put a stop to it already?

If I have the possibility to keep my conversations private, I will take advantage of it, even if I'm only talking about what I'm cooking for dinner (my recipes are top secret... lol... jk).

@Ceka: From my experience, it has gotten a lot better.Though I believe it may have a lot to do with both party's internet connection.

...Dres