Anything to limit number of avatars at one time on land?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I think so. This part of the new "Scripted Agent Policy" surprised me:

 

It's interesting how so much comprehension comes down to "RIF"!

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
If you're a 70's kid like me: "RIF" = "Reading is Fundamental". Carol Burnett was the celebrity spokesperson.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I think so. This part of the new "Scripted Agent Policy" surprised me:

 

The issue being, they've said scripted agents do not count as traffic so they need to reword it.

Using Scripted Agents to "game" or boost traffic is prohibited.  

Using unregister scripted agents to game traffic is the problem.  

[Aethelwine]

Qie describes them as heavily scripted, which is a bit curious, but doesn't the term scripted agent refer to an avatar doing automated stuff, not just standing around doing nothing.

 

[belindacarson]

On 4/4/2023 at 11:48 AM, Phil Deakins said:

LL said not to report them. Has it changed since then?

I know that some people actually enjoy reporting them

*Sticks hand up*😁

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

Qie describes them as heavily scripted, which is a bit curious, but doesn't the term scripted agent refer to an avatar doing automated stuff, not just standing around doing nothing.

A scripted agent is an agent that's not logged in by a person using a viewer, but by a programme. It doesn't matter if it's just standing around doing nothing, or running around doing stuff.

Yesterday, I came across a bunch of avatars just sitting around inside a box, and doing nothing. They were there for the traffic, of course, and they are there again today. But judging by their profiles, and a poster for Radegast on the wall inside the box where they are, they give the appearance of not being scripted agents (bots), but avatars each logged in with an instance of the thin Radegast viewer. It's a bit of a grey area there. The  avatars are not controlled by a programme, and each is operable by the RL person who logged them in just as if they were logged in with the LL viewer. It's like having a bunch of avatars logged in with the full LL viewer and leaving them where they are for the traffic. They would not be scripted agents, because they are not programmed. They are merely avatars that are logged in with a thin viewer.

[Teresa Firelight]

23 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Yesterday, I came across a bunch of avatars just sitting around inside a box, and doing nothing. They were there for the traffic, of course, and they are there again today. But judging by their profiles, and a poster for Radegast on the wall inside the box where they are, they give the appearance of not being scripted agents (bots), but avatars each logged in with an instance of the thin Radegast viewer. It's a bit of a grey area there. The  avatars are not controlled by a programme, and each is operable by the RL person who logged them in just as if they were logged in with the LL viewer. It's like having a bunch of avatars logged in with the full LL viewer and leaving them where they are for the traffic. They would not be scripted agents, because they are not programmed. They are merely avatars that are logged in with a thin viewer.

I understand your point, and it is well made. You illustrate the difference between a scripted agent and a user-logged in avatar. But I wanted to say something about the assumption of why they were there... it isn't always just for traffic. Sometimes a person can work on multiple alts at the same time.

When avatars are sitting around in a skybox and appear to be "doing nothing," it doesn't mean they are really doing nothing. Let me share a recent example: I have 3 alts and had all three alts logged on yesterday via firestorm... in my skybox. I went through inventory moving some transfer stuff around between these three. All three have a large inventory and it took a few hours to sort through the transfer items and get them moved to the desired avatar.

Even though they appeared to be "doing nothing," they were actually all actively in use as I sorted through their inventories to share objects with each other. They weren't there for traffic... I was just working on all three of them at the same time.

It is true that sometimes people put avatars out to increase traffic, but there are actually valid other reasons for having more than 1 avatar logged in at the same time.

[Phil Deakins]

@Teresa Firelight You are perfectly correct, Teresa. There are reasons to have multiple avatars logged in and apparently doing nothing, without it being for traffic. I often have several logged in for various purposes. I don't fiddle around with inventories so mine move when they are in, sometimes being ejected from the parcel time and time again lol. Testing.

In the case I mentioned, though, there are 12 of them. I've heard of Tiny Empires, but I don't know anything about it, so they could be something to do with that. I don't think so, though. They are on a parcel that sells female avatars, and they increase its traffic. Most of them are seated round a table but not playing anything. I can't be 100% certain, of course, but I think they are simply there for the traffic. I won't report them because it's what I used to do and I'm not a hypocrite

I should add that they may well be bots - operated by a programme - scripted agents. It's easy enough to programme an avatar to do things on login, such as sit on a particular chair. It's the real-looking profiles, and the poster for Radegast on the wall, that makes me think they may not be bots, even though they are being used for something that bots are used for.

Right now, I have 5 avatars logged in temporarily, 4 of which are logged in with Speedlight, and I could log many more in with it. None of them are scripted agents. They are all operated individually by me. I could have 20 of them or many more, and none would need to be registered as scripted agents, because they aren't. Each one is logged in individually by me, and none of them do anything that's automated. Thin viewers and Speedlight, which is recommended by LL, make it easy to do the job of traffic bots, and yet the avatars don't need to be registered as scripted agents.

Having said all that, I believe it is against the rules to do anything that artificially inflates the traffic count, so using thin viewers, etc. to do it is still against the rules.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Alwin Alcott]

37 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I believe it is against the rules to do anything that artificially inflates the traffic count,

don't believe it... it's simply true.  

[Phil Deakins]

I thought that was the case

 

[Alwin Alcott]

12 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I thought that was the case

 

the "traffic bots" need to be marked as scripted agents. 
All accounts that are not handled by a person can be seen as scripted agents. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

the "traffic bots" need to be marked as scripted agents. 
All accounts that are not handled by a person can be seen as scripted agents. 

Yes, that's true. What I've described here are accounts doing the jobs of traffic bots but controlled by a person and not a programme, so they don't need to be registered as scripted agents, because they are not, even though they are there to increase the traffic count.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

Yes, that's true. What I've described here are accounts doing the jobs of traffic bots but controlled by a person and not a programme, so they don't need to be registered as scripted agents, because they are not, even though they are there to increase the traffic count.

still,  gaming traffic is reportable.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

still,  gaming traffic is reportable.

Definitely!

[Qie Niangao]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:56 AM, Aethelwine said:

Qie describes them as heavily scripted, which is a bit curious, but doesn't the term scripted agent refer to an avatar doing automated stuff, not just standing around doing nothing.

Sorry I''ve lost track of the forums a bit—we've had some weather, a power outage, lumberjack shenanigans, etc.—so I didn't respond earlier. Sorry for the confusion: I wasn't referring to the fact they're scripted agents which unfortunately isn't something visible to us, but in this case it's obvious anyway. Rather, I meant the scripts worn by the avatars are "heavy": lots of them, using a lot of time. I have a little script* that displays the script time and count of avatars (and objects) I focus my cam on.

I've lost all hope of catching up with the other thread, but I saw some discussion of what a shame it is that someone can't keep their non-roaming, non-traffic-generating service bot on their Bellisseria parcel because that whole estate is deny-bot. Although this doesn't strike me as particularly tragic, it is kind of a pointless consequence of the rule. A bot that never roams from a parcel that cannot use traffic (isn't listed in Search) shouldn't be much concern to anybody unless it's doing something else naughty.

_______________
*For all I know, Firestorm may have this built-in somehow, but it's a server-side statistic, so scripts can see it, and I find it easier to just write a script from scratch than to try to navigate those menus.

[Rowan Amore]

#2 in Escort search...one girl working in the club and one customer...traffic 45K+   All LL would need to do is spend 5 minutes a day hitting the top places in any search (especially adult) and they'd see this time and again.  

 

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

#2 in Escort search...one girl working in the club and one customer...traffic 45K+   All LL would need to do is spend 5 minutes a day hitting the top places in any search (especially adult) and they'd see this time and again.  

 

Is not idle avatars, just in case of gang b!ng, plus they like to watch?

[JasonBCool]

On 4/7/2023 at 7:19 PM, Rowan Amore said:

#2 in Escort search...one girl working in the club and one customer...traffic 45K+   All LL would need to do is spend 5 minutes a day hitting the top places in any search (especially adult) and they'd see this time and again.  

 

Traffic is a source of frustration for me and i am sure for many others in sl. I own a club and have been trying to get the traffic up by all legitimate means necessary such as Voodoo Sploders and Magic Fishing etc. Now LL Claims that the traffic is calculated by accumulating the total number of seconds that all avatars are on your land for then that total is divided by 60 and then rounded to the nearest whole number.  So if 121 seconds are accumulated then dividing it by 60 would give you 2 land traffic. However, if this is the case then the traffic on your land should only increase and not decrease. Now i have managed to get my land up to over 6000 (no bots used) during a night where we have DJ Sets. The following day was a break day where no sets are held and yet it fell to 2740. So if the method they use to calculate traffic is correct then there is no reason why the traffic count should go down unless they are taking seconds off your total count if/when the sim remains empty. If this is the case then, although i am completely against the use of bots. I understand why people result to this method. Club "Exhale" is a prime example of this I went there and their Traffic count was way over 90K and when i got there. I would guess there were over 50 bots there standing on the side of the dance floor doing absolutely nothing other than increasing the traffic.. LL need to get a handle on this and sort it out because people like myself and others who refuse to use underhanded tactics such as bots, who want to gain traffic legitimately dont stand a chance.  OK Sorry rant over. 

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, JasonBCool said:

over 50 bots there standing on the side of the dance floor doing absolutely nothing other than increasing the traffic

Those are more than likely just residents who park there and chit chat in IM or on Discord with friends.  They are usually well done (think expensive) avatars to put together.  People using unregistered agents to game traffic tend to use Library avatars with freebie clothing.  

The thing these venue owners fail to realize is...traffic really means nothing to anyone who has been around even just a year or so.  After you've tped into various high ranking places to find no one actually IN the club, you realize those 60 green dots over on the edge are bots.   I never hit any place because it ranks high.  I go to places from seeing them in someone's groups or Picks.

[Alwin Alcott]

10 hours ago, JasonBCool said:

Traffic is a source of frustration for me and i am sure for many others in sl. I own a club and have been trying to get the traffic up by all legitimate means necessary such as Voodoo Sploders and Magic Fishing etc. Now LL Claims that the traffic is calculated by accumulating the total number of seconds that all avatars are on your land for then that total is divided by 60 and then rounded to the nearest whole number.  So if 121 seconds are accumulated then dividing it by 60 would give you 2 land traffic. However, if this is the case then the traffic on your land should only increase and not decrease. Now i have managed to get my land up to over 6000 (no bots used) during a night where we have DJ Sets. The following day was a break day where no sets are held and yet it fell to 2740. So if the method they use to calculate traffic is correct then there is no reason why the traffic count should go down unless they are taking seconds off your total count if/when the sim remains empty. If this is the case then, although i am completely against the use of bots. I understand why people result to this method. Club "Exhale" is a prime example of this I went there and their Traffic count was way over 90K and when i got there. I would guess there were over 50 bots there standing on the side of the dance floor doing absolutely nothing other than increasing the traffic.. LL need to get a handle on this and sort it out because people like myself and others who refuse to use underhanded tactics such as bots, who want to gain traffic legitimately dont stand a chance.  OK Sorry rant over. 

As far i know, traffic doesnt just rise, it's calculated every time new again.  The results of today won't count against the number or tomorrow. or the day after
The results also may differ from your experience because of timezone. Your busiest time for example could theoretically fall between two calculationmoments, the one part in todays calculation, the other in tomorrows.
If i haven't been on my parcel, nor my alts went inworld, my traffic is zero.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[DarksOkie]

On 4/3/2023 at 7:23 AM, Rowan Amore said:

Do you mean there's someone else running a club with 25 bots?  If so, perhaps contact the owner/manager of the estate.  I lived on an estate before where one of the tenants constantly had a dozen or more bots/avatars on their parcel.  They were playing Tiny Empires.  The rental company did make them remove most of them for over use of region resources.

 

Yes  I am so sorry I do not use bots. There is a club on the same SIM as mine that does ....I am so sorry if I led anyone to believe that I had bots. 

[Qie Niangao]

42 minutes ago, DarksOkie said:

I am so sorry if I led anyone to believe that I had bots. 

Don't worry, I think we had that clarified already after a site visit.

It seems a difficult region in which to operate, particularly with the bots at that club. The traffic on their parcel reveals that the bots aren't compliant with policy—they're contributing to traffic, so aren't declared as "scripted agents" as they must be. But kinda worse, most of them have 60 or so scripts, apparently including some pretty busy scripts. Those scripts will compete with all other scripts in the region (and I notice your parcel has its share of scripts too) so scripted actions will feel laggy. (HUD-based operations, for example, will feel weirdly delayed at times.)

Contacting the rental company might be useful. You're really not getting the level of service from your parcel as one would normally expect, so unless you're getting a really good deal, you might do better elsewhere. In your case, though, I'm not sure a homestead region would be best for your particular needs, as they only get 1/4 a normal region's processing time, so it doesn't take many scripts (or avatars) to make them lag, too, which is why they limit Land Impact to 5000 and avatars to 20. Those seem like reasonable limits, but not for script-intensive applications.

[Phil Deakins]

On 4/4/2023 at 12:32 PM, Qie Niangao said:

But 33876 / 1440 = 23.525.

(I assume the 1440 is 24 hours x 60 minutes, right?)

Oops. I appear to have used the land area for my calculation 

[Phil Deakins]

8 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

As far i know, traffic doesnt just rise, it's calculated every time new again.  The results of today won't count against the number or tomorrow. or the day after

That's correct. Yesterday's number has no effect on today's number. Traffic is counted from scratch every 24 hours.

[DarksOkie]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Don't worry, I think we had that clarified already after a site visit.

It seems a difficult region in which to operate, particularly with the bots at that club. The traffic on their parcel reveals that the bots aren't compliant with policy—they're contributing to traffic, so aren't declared as "scripted agents" as they must be. But kinda worse, most of them have 60 or so scripts, apparently including some pretty busy scripts. Those scripts will compete with all other scripts in the region (and I notice your parcel has its share of scripts too) so scripted actions will feel laggy. (HUD-based operations, for example, will feel weirdly delayed at times.)

Contacting the rental company might be useful. You're really not getting the level of service from your parcel as one would normally expect, so unless you're getting a really good deal, you might do better elsewhere. In your case, though, I'm not sure a homestead region would be best for your particular needs, as they only get 1/4 a normal region's processing time, so it doesn't take many scripts (or avatars) to make them lag, too, which is why they limit Land Impact to 5000 and avatars to 20. Those seem like reasonable limits, but not for script-intensive applications.

I am so new to this forum thing, I don't even think I am quoting correctly lol.  Thanks for the info, yes we've spoken with our rental company they have been very good to work with, i think they thought the new scripted agent would resolve issue, but I see those same names there every day.  They've gotten quite used to myself or my husband asking for a restart every few days.   We've been told for the amount of land we have we are getting a great deal, and we've paid out a few months... So I guess we'll stay where we are at

Thank you again for all the help and information

 

 

[JasonBCool]

Thank You Rowan and Alvin for your reply. Rowan i do believe that this could be a simple case of parking the avatar and chatting in IM and Discord. Alwin what you said would in fact make sense if it was reset to zero at the start of every calculation day. However as you may have read in my last posting. When i had three days of events leading to an accumulated 6000+ land traffic then the following day when no one was on my sim (I know this as i am notified when someone lands on it) then the count should have in fact gone back to zero instead it went down to 2740 which would suggest (according to SL own calculation of traffic) that 2740 minutes were accumulated on that day on my sim. This would suggest that it is not  reset to zero as it should have read zero for that day. Is there any official information about Land Traffic published by Linden Labs that details the process they use to calculate traffic other than the brief one i mentioned in my previous posting.