Flyzone layer in mainland

[simonastick666]

Hi, i`d like to know if there is a safe flyzone layer (for example between 2000 meters and 2500 meters) in mainland in which is possible to fly without enter in a protected or forbidden  space. I`d like to fly in mainland  but every time i'm ejected from any orbiter i meet in my traceroute. Could be a good idea to put in SL role to forbid orbiter at a determinate high layer

[Quistess Alpha]

Only in Belisaria (the continents with all the mostly identical houses). For the rest of mainland, it's anything goes.

[Claireschen Hesten]

There's no safe guaranteed fly zone on mainland it doesn't matter if you are at ground level or 100k metres up if someone has a security device that will get rid of you faster than you can get off their property it will get rid of you at any height 

[animats]

Shergood Aviation has an online map of known hostile security orbs for flight planning. It's not complete, though. Orange circles with an exclamation point indicate threats. Red circles with an exclamation point indicate high threats. If you mouse over an marker on the map, you get something like this:

Orb ID: #4687
Orb Name: LazyGuy - Security Orb 5.56
Position: (18, 170)
Height: 963m
Radius: 96m
Time: 3s
Threat: high
First Recorded: 2022-12-24 16:00:02
Last Update: 2022-12-24 16:00:05
Recorded by: CENSORED

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by animats

[diamond Marchant]

One method I use to avoid orbs and banlines is to fly over protected water when that is available. As stated above, anything goes on mainland. You can fly over general banlines (I suggest 100m above ground level) but you can't beat individual banlines or some security orbs  Also, you cannot pass a region that is at it's avatar limit. In the Skyward Flying Club, we typically make charts that give you a path that is known to be safe (but not guaranteed).

It is not a coincidence that most of our airports are adjacent to protected water.

In Bellisseria, assuming everyone follows covenant, in theory you should be safe from all hazards between 400m and 2000m, except for individual  banlines and avatar-full regions. In practice, you might encounter illegal orbs, which should be reported (AR). Personally, I fly at lower altitudes so I usually stay over water, even in Bellisseria. If you do hit a legal orb, you have 15 seconds to pass over the parcel which is no problem unless you are in a really really slow moving balloon.

It is not likely that mainland policies will change in Second Life as we know it. Our best option is to lobby for increased protected water connectivity so that residents may travel about freely in vehicles without having a really bad day.

Edited February 5, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Setsuki Takeda]

You could try to educate people on orb zones, I tell everyone who kicks me out while flying nowhere near their actual builds that they can set a zone for an orb, mine does not eject people unless they are *in* my loft or on a specific blacklist. So far there are only 38 people in SL that get an instant trip home when entering my land, and all of them have earned it.

The problem is that only decent orbs can seem to manage zones, they're not really the free option for the less inclined to spend L$, or the "I put this up a decade ago, left SL, but still blast people across the continent regularly even in my absence." types who have grandfathered land chock full of hideous prim castles nobody would even notice if it weren't for their orbs. Some of the cheap ones can do range, though, which usually allows flyers to be safe. It's not going to only cover the inside of your home like my CasperSafe orb does, but it won't slap someone out of their helicopter 750m away from your house.

This can backfire, though...

Some of them don't know that there are better ways, or don't know that *most* people have no interest in your parcel and only even take note of it when *you* force an interaction. Those are often more than willing to chat with you, talk about parcel security, and either adjust their timer or upgrade to a better system...

The rest of the orbs are put up by incompotent, lazy, paranoid, extremely cheap people, though. Telling them in the nicest way possible that they can maintain their privacy without being a problem for everyone around them has even got a few to start spamming me with thier alts.

[animats]

I'd like to see the Bellessaria rules on ban lines, orbs, and sky builds applied to mainland. But  many people object to that.

Maybe try it on a smaller continent, such as Corsica or Zindra?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 hours ago, animats said:

I'd like to see the Bellessaria rules on ban lines, orbs, and sky builds applied to mainland. But  many people object to that.

Maybe try it on a smaller continent, such as Corsica or Zindra?

Maybe don't try it at all, since the idea is widely hated by people who actually live where you want to test your ideas.

 

I'd like to see the "Bellicosian Anti-Privacy Zone" surrounded by a 5 km high electrified razor wire fence, but we don't always get what we want.

 

Please STOP your repeated attempts to victimise mainland residential parcel owners who choose NOT to live at ground level, and who choose NOT to allow random vehicle users to crash fighter jets into our homes, and then scream abuse at us..

Some of us still recal Attempt 1, demanding that all skybox dwellers be exiled from SL to Sansar, Attempt 2, a suggested covenant that would only allow parcel security above 4000 m altitude and only allow building below 250 m altitude, and Attempt 3, where you wanted to turn the whole mainland into a copy of the Bellicosian Anti-Privacy Zone, a place most mainlanders DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN.

 

[Teresa Firelight]

Personally I dont use ban lines or orbs on my mainland or Bellisseria homes... and people can fly over them, boat though my water ways, etc. But that is MY choice.

If another mainland land owner chooses to close their property to others that is THEIR choice.

But yes, there is a flyzone you can use. It is over Bellsseria (which is a very large continent to fly around on). That is between 400 M and 2000M elevation... orbs are not allowed at that elevation range.  At other elevations, orbs must give a 15 second warning before ejecting people and a fast moving airplane should clear a 32x32 parcel in less than 15 seconds.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

7 hours ago, animats said:

I'd like to see the Bellessaria rules on ban lines, orbs, and sky builds applied to mainland. But  many people object to that.

Maybe try it on a smaller continent, such as Corsica or Zindra?

tip : go live at Belli and you'll have all you desire.

[diamond Marchant]

Tip: protected water has no banlines, orbs, or sky builds

Tip: many airports on mainland are adjacent to protected water

[Setsuki Takeda]

19 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

tip : go live at Belli and you'll have all you desire.

Except the ability to use scripted items like farms and breedables, or to put up a donation box (let alone a CasperVend system) on your build, or have a usable size parcel rather than the minscule jokes that Linden Homes are placed on...

I'd really like to see a hybrid type, give us a decent "good neighbor" covenant that keeps people from building giant towers of sky-blue boxes from ground level to the build limit for people to slam into because they look *exactly* like SL sky and poorly configured orbs everywhere not only booting people who are passing by but often spamming NCs and LMs to the entie region but still gives you freedom to build what you want and have privacy outside of the "fly zone" and raod corridors.

Sure, this can have you end up with neighbors you have to tell your guests to derender their particle bomb "clubs" that are always empty but never turned off, but I'll take that over not being able to have my vineyard up or a few breedables out.

Beli is bad, for the terrible cookie-cutter homes (seriously, LL, colab with someone who makes a decent house. Get more options, for lower LI, with texturing that doesn't make me flinch) and excessively restictive covenant on what can be added to them, but it is good for at least informing people who live there that you can have your private space without being antagonistic to everyone that passes by.

And, yes, before 76 people scream at me that "LAND OWNERS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT!" I know this, I agree with this, but maybe a few of them might consider if they *should* rather than if they *can* do something. I have *zero* interest in your stack of cereal boxes and Ruckus couch unless you "protect" it so hard that it slapps me out of a helicopter when I'm so far away your whole "build" looks like a dot.

[Teresa Firelight]

2 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

Beli is bad, for the terrible cookie-cutter homes (seriously, LL, colab with someone who makes a decent house. Get more options, for lower LI, with texturing that doesn't make me flinch) and excessively restictive covenant on what can be added to them, but it is good for at least informing people who live there that you can have your private space without being antagonistic to everyone that passes by.
 

I do not share your assessment of Bellisseria. I think that it has some incredibly scenic/beautiful neighborhoods. And yes, you are limited to the houses in the rezzer but most themes have many houses to choose from, then you can color the exterior, buy additions to customize it further, etc...

It is true that there are some neighborhoods/themes that dont appeal to me. But with 14 different themes, there is a lot to choose from, and I personally like most of them.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

Except the ability to use scripted items like farms and breedables, or to put up a donation box (let alone a CasperVend system) on your build, or have a usable size parcel rather than the minscule jokes that Linden Homes are placed on...

I'd really like to see a hybrid type, give us a decent "good neighbor" covenant that keeps people from building giant towers of sky-blue boxes from ground level to the build limit for people to slam into because they look *exactly* like SL sky and poorly configured orbs everywhere not only booting people who are passing by but often spamming NCs and LMs to the entie region but still gives you freedom to build what you want and have privacy outside of the "fly zone" and raod corridors.

Sure, this can have you end up with neighbors you have to tell your guests to derender their particle bomb "clubs" that are always empty but never turned off, but I'll take that over not being able to have my vineyard up or a few breedables out.

Beli is bad, for the terrible cookie-cutter homes (seriously, LL, colab with someone who makes a decent house. Get more options, for lower LI, with texturing that doesn't make me flinch) and excessively restictive covenant on what can be added to them, but it is good for at least informing people who live there that you can have your private space without being antagonistic to everyone that passes by.

And, yes, before 76 people scream at me that "LAND OWNERS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT!" I know this, I agree with this, but maybe a few of them might consider if they *should* rather than if they *can* do something. I have *zero* interest in your stack of cereal boxes and Ruckus couch unless you "protect" it so hard that it slapps me out of a helicopter when I'm so far away your whole "build" looks like a dot.

A lot of what you list, is how the older Premium Linden home regions worked. They still exist, if you don't like Bellisseria.  Now that you bring it up, I hope LL keeps some options for Premium home Regions with less restrictive covenants as the old Premium home regions are "retired". 

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

I'd really like to see a hybrid type, give us ...

do you know the history of Belli?
The safe zones for flying were added later..not as start.
The "comunity , well some off them with very loud voices, got thei idea implemented soon after launch.
So in short: Belli is the , more or less, dedicated area for safe traveling.

In my opinion, that's pretty large free and safe zone for the minority, of flying travelers.
Mainland is for the skilled ones who can read  the maps: and only LL protected lands are open.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[Zalificent Corvinus]

16 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

And, yes, before 76 people scream at me that "LAND OWNERS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT!" 

And, before 6 or 7 vehicle users scream at me that "Vehicle Users can invade where ever they want!"

16 hours ago, Setsuki Takeda said:

but maybe a few of them might consider if they *should* rather than if they *can* do something. I have *zero* interest in your stack of cereal boxes and Ruckus couch unless you "protect" it so hard that it slapps me out of a helicopter when I'm so far away your whole "build" looks like a dot.

The last vehicle using, privacy hating home invader I had any interaction with, trespassed on my parcel, got caught by the orb, and punt kicked back where they came from, and added to the ban list. Then they TP'd back to a spot just outside my parcel on the abandoned land that makes up about 75% of the region, and...

 

Me: Over-entitled Vehicle Vagrant IM Harassment spam in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Them: Hi, I'm a snotty cow with too much money, and I was just punted from your land, so I wanted to talk to you about that.

Me: Yes, I noticed, and?

Them: I have two large, luxurious and expensive homes in Atlantean Nautilus, and Bay City, and I regularly commute once a week between them by air, using an auto pilot hud with 160 landmarks. Also

1. I was flying in the Official Safe Fly Zone, at 2500m

2. Regularly commuting through your parcel makes me an Official Bone Fide Traveller and therefore 

3. I have a Right to demand that you

3a. Unban me immediately

3b. Add me to your orb's guest list and 

3c. Invite me to your non-public family land group, so i can enjoy full rezzing rights to use your 500 spare LI allowance to build my own emergerncy mini air field  on your land

Me: 😮

Them: Thank you for your co-operation

Me: First of all you are a bloody liar, as if you commuted through my parcel every week, you'd have been punted and banned more than two months ago, Also

1. There is no such thing as an official mainland safe fly zone, and even in Bellicosia, 2500 m is not in it

2. There is no such thing as an official bone fide traveller, and

3. it confers no rights whatsoever thereforte my answer to your demands is

3a. No!

3b: Hell NO!

3c. Fork off and dye, I and my SL family don't pay tier so you can use our land as a third home

 

They seemed a little surprised when I gave them my response. Go figure, and they were one of the LESS toxic Abuse Reportable harassment IM spammers.

I didn't used to have an orb, I installed one 20 odd pages into a 30 odd page Vehicle user Rant Thread, after one particularly annoying vehicle user/explorer repeatedly posted this (translated from Vehicle Vagrant into plain English)

 

"The owners of any mainland parcel that wasn't specifically built for use by ME ME ME ME ME, should be sentenced to life imprisonment in a cloud based spin-up-on-demand solitary confinement instance, as part of an off-the-main-grid anti residential mainlander gulag, for which they should pay double, once to cover the cost of their confinement, and once to recompense LL, for the lost tier caused by demolishing their build and clearing the land for enjoyment by ME ME ME ME ME!

I consider this a fair and reasonable compromise!"

 

I found this often repeated "fair and reasonable compromise" unfair, and unreasonable, so I installed an orb. In deference to the usual vehicle user strawman arguments, I set it to ignore anyone entering the parcel between the top of the 50m high banlines, and 100m, so people can ban line trampoline, or "admire the ground level builds, I set it to ignore anyone who intruded less than 2m into the property in case they "accidentally set a toe on somebodies land due to lag or not displaying parcel lines", it doesn't send any message unless it actually detects you in the no-entry zone. My dislike of repeat offender vehicular home invaders is LEARNED, you brought it on your selves

 

The same loudmouthed bodily orifice also claimed they had never heard a justification for zero second orbs, here's mine.

Amount of time you spend considering NOT invading my home with intent to harass, ZERO seconds.

Amount of time my orb spends considering not punting and banning you, ZERO seconds

 

I'm sick and tired of the Vehicle Vagrant  "What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too" attitude.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Istelathis]

As the viewer is updated, it would be nice if they extended the maximum altitude and declare anything extended beyond 6,000 meters as traversable by anyone, with no security orbs or ban lines present, in addition give land owners the ability to remain invisible to to anyone above that altitude.  Dip below it, and you must obey the property owners rules, zero second security orbs, ban lines, the full works.  

Even in real life, I don't own the air above my private property, despite paying taxes and having paid for the land I live on.  It is not unusual to see helicopters flying above me, or even airplanes.. I can just imagine shaking my fists at them, and telling the government that I pay for this property, and no one is allowed to fly above it because they could be spying on me, or just an annoyance - plus there is the possibility that one day one of them might crash into my house.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Istelathis
6,000 meters not 5,000

[animats]

 

6 hours ago, Istelathis said:

anything extended beyond 6,000 meters

At high altitudes, positions start to be slightly off, because the data representation is a 32-bit floating point number with only 24 bits of significance. 4000 meters is really too much already. Try building up there.

[diamond Marchant]

This topic as described in the OP has been fully addressed. LL as it exists today has no reason to change anything. Frequent vehicle users simply avoid hazards to navigation. It’s part of our game. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by diamond Marchant
added map showing banline location

[VenKellie]

some people i know just stick to public land. If you open your mini map, right click and show parcel lines,  its usually thin strips of land that are public access.