Can someone tell me how to fix this issue with hair interfering with clothing

[Robotshaz]

Hey all So I got this problem with this hair or it might be the dress I don't know but I have seen this happen a few times with other hairs that I have worn with other outfits also. This has happened before with other long hairstyles too and certain outfits aswell. Can someone tell me how to fix this problem with hair having like a transparent layer around it and so it showing my skin through the dress that I am wearing? I tried looking at the hud on the magika hair hud and turning off materials which seems to make the transparency around the hair go away until I remove the hud and then this glitch comes back.

 

 

[steeljane42]

Option 1: If outfit is mod, edit it and set alpha mode (under texture tab) to alpha masking or none. The latter will only work if an outfit/dress is not meant to be transparent, and alpha masking can make it look rather odd too, but still worth a try. if it's no mod, then nothing you can do about outfit itself.

Option 2: Use short hair. Most hair these days are no mod, including magika ones you're wearing, but even if they were, then changing from blending to masking on the hair that were made with blending in mind in 9/10 cases makes them look awful no matter what mask cutoff you'd choose.

All the temporary "fixes" you see by messing with the HUD, right clicking the hair or the dress, zooming out and back are purely local and don't fix anything, but temporarily change the order your viewer renders those transparent layers.

[KT Kingsley]

Extending steeljane's option 1, above, if the hair is mod you can also try changing that to use alpha masking. If you can use alpha masking you'll probably need to play with the cutoff level to get something useable. Looking at that hair, though, the fine detail will likely suffer considerably.

[Robotshaz]

6 minutes ago, KT Kingsley said:

Extending steeljane's option 1, above, if the hair is mod you can also try changing that to use alpha masking. If you can use alpha masking you'll probably need to play with the cutoff level to get something useable. Looking at that hair, though, the fine detail will likely suffer considerably.

Yes i wouldn't want to ruin the detail of the hair as I do think magika's hair is lovely and would be a shame. The outfit isn't modifiable either so can't edit the outfit. So I think then must be something to do with the outfit and the hair not liking it. I have managed to wear the hair on other outfits before so I do wonder if it could be a texture issue with some outfits then. Also thanks both for your comments. It really helps.

[Robotshaz]

 

35 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

Option 1: If outfit is mod, edit it and set alpha mode (under texture tab) to alpha masking or none. The latter will only work if an outfit/dress is not meant to be transparent, and alpha masking can make it look rather odd too, but still worth a try. if it's no mod, then nothing you can do about outfit itself.

Sadly the outfit doesn't have modify perm on it but i'll definitely bare that in mind when buying outfits in the future. I will try different outfits with the hair again. I did have the same issue come up with another dress from a different store too. But I will keep on trying. Thanks so much for your reply.

[steeljane42]

6 minutes ago, Robotshaz said:

I do wonder if it could be a texture issue with some outfits then

Unless they are meant to be transparent/sheer, then it definitely just creator forgetting to set texture alpha mode to none. I did encounter plenty of things like that, not just clothing, but some rezzables. An easy fix if it's mod, but in cases like your outfit, you'd have to ask the creator to fix that and send the updates to those who have bought it. Some will do it and even thank you for letting them know, and some won't bother and blame anything, but themselves for that.

[Robotshaz]

I will do that thanks very much steeljane. 

[Bree Giffen]

Is there a hud to change the textures on the dress? Maybe you can select a different texture. Both the hair and the dress are using alpha and this causes the dress to become erased where the hair alpha overlaps.  Alpha is understandable with the hair but not the solid colored dress. If the dress had some lace or transparent sections then that would explain why it has alpha.  If no hud, if not modify either, then it's time to go shopping. Which is not a bad thing!

I have demo'd a few clothes that conflicted with my hair and I ended up not purchasing because of it. Luckily, SL is an endless smorgasbord of clothing options. 

[Maitimo]

Unfortunately, if the clothing is no-mod, the only thing you can do is file it away in a folder named "bad alpha" so you will remember never to wear it with long hair. Or toss it out altogether.

I have been begging creators for years to stop using alpha blending on no-mod clothing, but they aren't listening yet. If everyone stopped buying it, then they would listen.

  

15 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Alpha is understandable with the hair but not the solid colored dress. If the dress had some lace or transparent sections then that would explain why it has alpha.  If no hud, if not modify either, then it's time to go shopping.

They do it because they do their textures like this: 

instead of like this:  

When there's any transparency in the PNG file, even if the transparency isn't visible in the mesh itself, it will be alpha-blended by default. It can easily be corrected by switching the texture mode to Masked or None instead of Blended. Anyone can do this if the garment is Modifyable but if it's no-mod, only the creator can fix it.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Maitimo

[Caeruleiae]

Probably not much help, but when I have this problem I just take my hair off and put it back on and problem is solved. It doesn't even always happen with the same outfits every time. 

[steeljane42]

52 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

Probably not much help, but when I have this problem I just take my hair off and put it back on and problem is solved. It doesn't even always happen with the same outfits every time. 

It's not solved. Unless your definition of solved is "good enough for a moment to take a picture". How you and everyone else see you when this issue is present purely depends on how your (or their) viewer orders blended layers. So like I already wrote earlier, it's not a fix. And this is exactly why it doesn't happen on the same combination of clothes/outfits.

[Maitimo]

16 hours ago, Caeruleiae said:

Probably not much help, but when I have this problem I just take my hair off and put it back on and problem is solved. It doesn't even always happen with the same outfits every time. 

Thats a temporary effect seen only by you. Everyone else sill still be able to see your boobs through your clothes, and so will you, next time your camera angle changes.

[EliseAnne85]

19 hours ago, Maitimo said:

When there's any transparency in the PNG file, even if the transparency isn't visible in the mesh itself, it will be alpha-blended by default. It can easily be corrected by switching the texture mode to Masked or None instead of Blended. Anyone can do this if the garment is Modifyable but if it's no-mod, only the creator can fix it.

 

Just wanted to say something about mod clothing:    I doubt clothing will ever be mod, although I have made a few items for Dinkies to mod so they could tint a bit darker if they wanted to, etc.  The problem is most clothing is  *probably* not created by the creator name and there is a root prim attached to the clothing that changes the item into the root prim owner's name, and that is precisely why most clothing is no mod.  With this root prim, if clothing were mod, if the purchaser tries to re-texture the garment the root prim will also be re-textured and thus the root prim will show and ruin the piece of clothing for ever being worn again unless someone knows the tricks of re-texturing just the garment and not the clothing item and the root prim, which most in SL don't.  It would be nice if the creator said in the picture of their ad or description that the item is alpha masked.  Should SL content creator's consider this?  

Of note, it's the root prim that is set to transparency that is causing this problem.  What the root prim does is change the mesh model into the root prims owner's name and makes the root prim owner name the creator.  This is not copy-botting.  This is how it's done all the time in SL.  However, the root prim is set to transparency.  If purchaser textures it, they will texture the root prim also which will go off transparency and ruin the garment.  This is the main reason why clothing/hair in SL is no mod.  Just turn on control + alt + t and one will see invisible things flying about their avatar.  Those invisible things flying about your avatar are the transparent root prims.

Edited November 3, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Marianne Little]

31 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Just wanted to say something about mod clothing:    I doubt clothing will ever be mod, although I have made a few items for Dinkies to mod so they could tint a bit darker if they wanted to, etc.  The problem is most clothing is  *probably* not created by the creator name and there is a root prim attached to the clothing that changes the item into the root prim owner's name, and that is precisely why most clothing is no mod.  With this root prim, if clothing were mod, if the purchaser tries to re-texture the garment the root prim will also be re-textured and thus the root prim will show and ruin the piece of clothing for ever being worn again unless someone knows the tricks of re-texturing just the garment and not the clothing item and the root prim, which most in SL don't.  It would be nice if the creator said in the picture of their ad or description that the item is alpha masked.  Should SL content creator's consider this?  

Of note, it's the root prim that is set to transparency that is causing this problem.  What the root prim does is change the mesh model into the root prims owner's name and makes the root prim owner name the creator.  This is not copy-botting.  This is how it's done all the time in SL.  However, the root prim is set to transparency.  If purchaser textures it, they will texture the root prim also which will go off transparency and ruin the garment.  This is the main reason why clothing/hair in SL is no mod.  Just turn on control + alt + t and one will see invisible things flying about their avatar.  Those invisible things flying about your avatar are the transparent root prims.

Can't it be solved by a tiny micro prim placed inside the avatars body? I can't see the need for prims placed outside of it.

I think you are right, it is probably a full perm garment, and the one reselling it does not understand how to avoid such alpha blending issues. It is somebody using the included texture with some different tinting... The texture in the image look cheap, flat, no shading, just a color.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Marianne Little

[EliseAnne85]

2 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Can't it be solved by a tiny micro prim placed inside the avatars body? I can't see the need for prims placed outside of it.

I think you are right, it is probably a full perm garment, and the one reselling it does not understand how to avoid such alpha blending issues. It is somebody using the included texture with some different tinting... The texture in the image look cheap, flat, no shading, just a color.

It could possibly be solved by micro root prims that go inside the avatar's body, although I think some do this now.  There is just a paranoia that someone will try to re-texture the garment which re-textures the root prim too and takes the root prim off of transparency that some maker's of full perm items are too afraid to let it go to mod because that would cause a huge hassle for everyone.

I think many people in SL are very savvy that it's a full perm item and know the score that that creator did the texturing but did not make the mesh model that there are some that could be made mod, but then comes in ego where the person who did the texturing wants it in their name.  Even many of "the greats" are using some full perm items.  But, the greats probably know how to hide the root prim better.  Some full perm items don't allow movement of the root prim though, that's another problem.  It's probably done that way in case the mesh model needs to be checked to make sure it wasn't stolen, so the root prim has to stay floating about in order for models to be checked  from time to time.  That's my take.

As for the red dress, yes it looks like a full perm item.  

 

[Maitimo]

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Just wanted to say something about mod clothing:    I doubt clothing will ever be mod, although I have made a few items for Dinkies to mod so they could tint a bit darker if they wanted to, etc.  The problem is most clothing is  *probably* not created by the creator name and there is a root prim attached to the clothing that changes the item into the root prim owner's name, and that is precisely why most clothing is no mod.  With this root prim, if clothing were mod, if the purchaser tries to re-texture the garment the root prim will also be re-textured and thus the root prim will show and ruin the piece of clothing for ever being worn again unless someone knows the tricks of re-texturing just the garment and not the clothing item and the root prim, which most in SL don't.  It would be nice if the creator said in the picture of their ad or description that the item is alpha masked.  Should SL content creator's consider this?  

Of note, it's the root prim that is set to transparency that is causing this problem.  What the root prim does is change the mesh model into the root prims owner's name and makes the root prim owner name the creator.  This is not copy-botting.  This is how it's done all the time in SL.  However, the root prim is set to transparency.  If purchaser textures it, they will texture the root prim also which will go off transparency and ruin the garment.  This is the main reason why clothing/hair in SL is no mod.  Just turn on control + alt + t and one will see invisible things flying about their avatar.  Those invisible things flying about your avatar are the transparent root prims.

I know all of this. Which applies only when creators are using a full-perm mesh template - it wont apply to original creators who are making their own mesh, where the garment itself is the root prim. In any case I am not talking about re-texturing a garment, only switching it from Blend mode to Masked mode.

There are a number of solutiions to this problem.

• Attach the item to some place other than the right hand, where the root prim is hidden inside the body. Anyone can do this just by right-clicking the clothing in inventory and selecting something like "chest" or "stomach" instead of the default Right Hand
• Re-texture the gaarment using "select face" - the root prim won't be affected
• Raise the transparency on the root prim to 100% - it will then be invisible regardless of the testure used on it.

And no, this root prim thing is not the main reason that clothing is no mod, otherwise you'd find creators with original mesh releasing their clothing as Modify. The main reason is they want you to pay for multiple colours instead of just buyng a white one and tinting it.

[Caeruleiae]

6 hours ago, Maitimo said:

Thats a temporary effect seen only by you. Everyone else sill still be able to see your boobs through your clothes, and so will you, next time your camera angle changes.

Except that's not the case, I have had others check it, checked it myself, even from different angles and it does solve the problem. It does the same thing if I don't take the hair off and instead just log out and back in. Half the time when I see it others around me can't see it at all and it looks fine to them. When I first started I thought that just meant it was an issue on my end alone, so a graphics problem. But then others did see it too and I realized it wasn't. Maybe it's just a temporary fix, but I know it works, I've tried it, I see it working and so do people around me.

I don't know the actual solution, I don't think anyone else here does either since everyone keeps saying to mod the clothes even after reading they are no mod. Clearly no one else knows how to fix the problem any better than I do, but a temporary fix is better than nothing at all, I think, especially for new people or those with limited means of finding nice things free or really low cost without a group joining fee to get. A lot of that stuff even if only newly offered to people, is older stuff and that's usually where the problems start. 

 

[EliseAnne85]

8 hours ago, Maitimo said:

• Attach the item to some place other than the right hand, where the root prim is hidden inside the body. Anyone can do this just by right-clicking the clothing in inventory and selecting something like "chest" or "stomach" instead of the default Right Hand
• Re-texture the gaarment using "select face" - the root prim won't be affected
• Raise the transparency on the root prim to 100% - it will then be invisible regardless of the testure used on it.

And no, this root prim thing is not the main reason that clothing is no mod, otherwise you'd find creators with original mesh releasing their clothing as Modify. The main reason is they want you to pay for multiple colours instead of just buyng a white one and tinting it.

1 and 2, most people in SL don't know how to do that if clothing became mostly mod in SL.  And, most full perm people are such novices, they don't know much.  It takes a long time to learn stuff here.   And, there are some steps you left out above like checking EDIT LINKED + SELECT FACE and then clicking on the garment before retexturing a linked root prim item, especially if the root prim isn't inside the body.  I've been in SL and with control + alt + t had things (root prims) flying all around me for many, many, many years.    

As far as 3, a person could only change the transparency to 100% if they know how to use the EDIT LINKED feature and clicked only on the root prim and then put a transparency on it.  But, most likely there already is a transparency on the root prim or should be.  

I think that the root prim problems are the main reason that's why the texture area is not accessible for most items in SL.  Modify is accessible via scripts only.  Even some full perm item sold by the greats in SL attach a hud for some furniture and a resizer area to work the texture area of a rezzable item.  However, many huds, the person can work tint, glow, full bright from the hud.  So, why cannot they add change to alpha masking or none via a script on the hud also?  

As far as price, I think that's the second biggest reason why.   But, all in all, it's both.  

Edited November 4, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Blaise Glendevon]

11 hours ago, Maitimo said:

The main reason is they want you to pay for multiple colours instead of just buyng a white one and tinting it.

The main reason is that they don't want noobs slapping tacky textures and applying flat tinted colors, so that items with their brand names on it look like garbage. 

[EliseAnne85]

9 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

The main reason is that they don't want noobs slapping tacky textures and applying flat tinted colors, so that items with their brand names on it look like garbage. 

Most furniture in SL is mostly fully mod and I've seen non-noobs slap ugly textures on those and the creator's name is much more prominent on rezzed items.   So why furniture mod when it could be resized via a resizer and the mod capabilities turned off?  

I'll never forget the first time I hit control + alt + t and saw all these objects whizzing around me.  There was even a root prim coming from my bracelet.  I was shopping at main popular creators of the day the first time I saw all those root prims. 

Also, with all the full perm items and resellers since they didn't create it, why not allow modify?  Slapping on a texture will texture the root prim too and make the root prim visible if one doesn't know what they are doing.

I've also heard there is a way to change creator name by using a script, but I don't know if this is true or not. 

Yet, still, furniture copy/mod and almost all clothing in SL copy only.  Why this difference?   But still, they need a hud that includes changing the alpha area which gets blocked when one takes away the permission to modify.   

Edited November 4, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Dorientje Woller]

How about creators keping this alpha issue in mind when they create something, instead of pushing the hassle of modding into the neck of those that buy their stuff. Same goes for those that make clothing with transparent or fishnet like textures seem never to take in account the constrains of a mesh body so that the mesh body always stick through the piece you're wearing.

[Caeruleiae]

13 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

The main reason is that they don't want noobs slapping tacky textures and applying flat tinted colors, so that items with their brand names on it look like garbage. 

I like slapping tacky textures on things, and when I do, I make sure people know which store I bought that gaudy thing at.

Okay, maybe not really, but I have messed up some things by putting bad textures on them. Eventually I expect some creator to lash out at me for that because how could I dare to ruin their amazing item. I've also been told creators don't want me doing that. But, until then, I shall continue messing things up because it's fun and the only way I'll learn. 

[EliseAnne85]

20 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

How about creators keping this alpha issue in mind when they create something, instead of pushing the hassle of modding into the neck of those that buy their stuff. Same goes for those that make clothing with transparent or fishnet like textures seem never to take in account the constrains of a mesh body so that the mesh body always stick through the piece you're wearing.

We always have to leave a margin for human error.  Overall, the products are very satisfactory and, in my experience, there isn't that much human error in SL.  

But, me again on these root prims for a minute.  Yesterday, I put a texture on a full perm item I have and forgot there was a root prim.  So, lo and behold, I slap my texture on there and then there appears the root prim.  I had forgot I put a root prim there because I am shying away from using root prims on the full perm items I make because constantly testing to make sure the root prim isn't showing is a hassle so this particular item was older where I had put a root prim.  And, if my oversight ends up in customers hands I would feel terrible.  I think I may leave root prims in the dust and not use them anymore at all.  If someone buys something from me, it's because they liked the idea of my texturing.  Plus, I do make full perm items into something else because that's what they are for since the original full perm already exists there is no need to make a replica of it.  So, I wonder if I should make some of my items copy/mod.  I always texture things so all one could do is tint it darker.  Like if it's gray, tint it darker to charcoal or black.  I don't like making tons of colors anyways as it's too much work, plus I want to learn BOM.

But, human error is part of life.  

Edited November 5, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Ceka Cianci]

Are those just bangs that are an addon for the hair?  If those are just bangs or an addon for the hair, you can use bangs from their other hair or even find bangs that might work with the hair from bang packs..

With tops that have transparency and you can't really mod the top, it's usually better to find a shorter hair style or in your case bangs if they are bangs.

[Frionil Fang]

31 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

So, lo and behold, I slap my texture on there and then there appears the root prim.  I had forgot I put a root prim there because I am shying away from using root prims on the full perm items I make because constantly testing to make sure the root prim isn't showing is a hassle so this particular item was older where I had put a root prim.

You should just set the root prim to 100% transparent with the transparency spinner, using the transparent library texture is not the same thing.