Auto-hide scripts inside clothing problem = is there a way to fix?

[GypsiesSoul]

hi i have issues with any clothes where there is an autohide script inside.

 

i wear a maitreya body.

if an clothing item has included autohide maitreya body script, is there a way to "disable " that clothing script?
No, Because the clothing is "not modify", then i cannot delete that script inside the clothing. 

Im asking because there is always problems when i am loading from several Saved outfits , the auto-hide script sometimes stops working.
OR especially  if i log off the SL game wearing that clothing item ,then next time i sign on and my body loads up , my body parts are showing. the atuo-hide clothing script stopped work.
So each time, i would have to detach the clothing item then wear it for it to hide the body parts again. and it becomes annoying.

 

I just want the auto-hide scripts to be deleted from all my clothing.

my question 
=is this a secondlife platform problem?
=is this a maitreya body problem?. Should maitreya update their body so that those clothing's autohide scripts doesnt work? or maitreya at least give us an HUD option to block the clothing 's autohide scripts?
=or this this not fixable problem???
=or does the clothing store owner have to delete manually something?

Also want to mention how sometimes i might even want to show a body part and i hate that the a clothing item just hides it automatically making it invisible.
Auto-hide scripts in clothing is just very annoying.

Thanks for the help

[Qie Niangao]

10 minutes ago, GypsiesSoul said:

=is this a maitreya body problem?. Should maitreya update their body so that those clothing's autohide scripts doesnt work? or maitreya at least give us an HUD option to block the clothing 's autohide scripts?

Unless maitreya has a way to ignore the auto-hide script kludges, yes, it's a problem with the product.

Of course the clothing merchants are at fault, too, first for not offering a way to disable auto-hide from their clothing, but also simply for selling no-mod clothing so you can't fix it yourself. Unfortunately there are so many clothing merchants who have caught the contagious no-mod superstition that now only the mesh bodies can practically fix the problem.

(A kludgy workaround for some mesh bodies might be an attachment that detects any other new attachment and signals to the body to revert all auto-hide settings, just in case the new attachment applied any. This would burn a ridiculous amount of CPU to do something that could be better achieved by removing scripts—if only the scripted products were modifiable.)

[Tarani Tempest]

Any clothing item that uses the newer version of the auto hide script , introduced with the V5 bodies can be removed.  Instructions here:  https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/p/alpha-auto-hide.html 

Older clothes do not use the newest version.  I have also seen some newer clothes still using the old version, which is something the designer needs to update.

The other alternative, is to use the Delete Scripts function on the Maitreya HUD.. MISC Tab.  That will delete scripts from the body, auto hide will no longer work...but that also means nothing else on the HUD will work either.  Nail polish appliers will no longer work. Alpha cuts on the Alpha tab will no longer work.  The body would essentially be saved just as it was when you deleted the scripts.

These days, if you use BOM mode.. you can better get away with this option, as you can now use custom system alphas instead of using the HUD alpha cuts.  And of course using BOM layers do not require any sort of scripting.

[Lewis Luminos]

Only the clothing creator can solve this problem, by making the auto-hide script deletable (or by updating to the new version, which I did not know about).

But there is a workaround - the script only activates when the clothing is first put on. If you go into the alpha hud you can then unhide all the segments that have been hidden, if you want to. It won't re-hide them unless you detach and reattach the clothing.

What annoys me more is when autohide doesn't automatically UN-hide the body when you take the garment off.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Auto-hide is generally poorly scripted (I think it involves poor object detection, signaling and above all, timing), but lag plays a minor role too. Every time I switch outfits (mostly including a Belleza Jake body), the alpha settings go completely bonkers and I have to use an alpha preset button on the body HUD to hide all my arms and legs poking through my clothes. Every. Single. Time.

And I'll repeat it again for creators too: there's really no reason to sell any mesh object as No Mod, except when it's a demo.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Auto-hide is generally poorly scripted (I think it involves poor object detection, signaling and above all, timing), but lag plays a minor role too. Every time I switch outfits (mostly including a Belleza Jake body), the alpha settings go completely bonkers and I have to use an alpha preset button on the body HUD to hide all my arms and legs poking through my clothes. Every. Single. Time.

I've specifically switched to the Belleza Jake body because it comes with a mod-perm version from which I can strip out all scripts when I have it setup correctly for an outfit—which usually ends up being what I use for generations of subsequent outfits, no need to use the HUD or body scripts again until I need to apply different materials. As long as I don't stray back into old outfits that used the no-mod version, I never have to undo the damage caused by no-mod clothing auto-hide scripts.

The mod version also permits complete removal of unused layers. I'm not sure this makes as much difference to rendering burden as one might expect, but I've done it—takes a few minutes in a sandbox—and use that version sometimes.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

because it comes with a mod-perm version from which I can strip out all scripts

I didn't even check, assuming the body would be No Mod, like most rigged items. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll just make a copy with no scripts for each outfit. Saves me a lot of HUD screen estate. and 'too many textures' warnings for that HUD.

[Rick Nightingale]

My wife has had endless problems with Maitreya's auto-hide for years, to the extent that she (well, I, I did most of the hard work for her) set up individual bodies, ready-alphad and script-removed, saved with each outfit. Total pain in the backside when an updated body came along but the auto-hide was so unreliable it seemed the only way to be sure (the 'nuke them from orbit' approach). Then there's clothing with poor alpha settings (or ones you would rather change), and poor rigging so you either get a gap, or a clip because the clothes don't line up with an alpha band. For some outfits I went as far as using an RLV script to control and synchronise the clothing change, with multiple auto-alpha 'dummy' attachables.

We finally solved it in a much more usable manner, although it's still a bit of a pain to do initially (for me - she just 'plays'). I'm pretty sure is was Qie who reminded me, in my thread on the matter ages ago, that BOM worked with system alpha layers, just like system clothes.

Now, we either use pre-made alpha layers that happen to work (Slink has a box of free ones in the store), or I make one myself in photoshop and upload it. It's easy enough to do with very basic editing skills. It still means you have to remove the scripts from the body if you can't remove the script from the clothing (>=v5 script but there's a lot of clothing that predates that). It's much better than the way we were doing it though and the alpha is often an improvement on what the clothing's auto-alpha did.

Yes, an option to just turn off the auto-alpha in the body would be a godsend and mean we could keep the rest of the scripts in it.

Finally, it is always worth asking the clothing creator to update to V5. A few are responsive (most are not, in my experience, but a few are). One even went so far as to remove the scripts altogether for her and send her a copy like that (this was pre v5). They of course have had a lot more of my wifes L$ since.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Rick Daylight

[Paul Hexem]

This is one of the biggest problems with no modify clothing and bodies, and why you should avoid it when you can.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Paul Hexem

[Ceka Cianci]

Me and Scylla just messed with this like last week or the week before.. It was with finding a work around for the autohide with the Maitreya addon for petite.. All we could get to work was deleting the scripts for the body, which left you with little that worked in the Maitreya hud.. You could still use hand animations, but otherwise you pretty much had to make sure your body was already setup for that particular folder.

The problem we were facing was trying to alpha cut the addon area before the addon would when switching from one outfit folder to another, because the addon would rezz at different times and sometimes not be able to autohide the part of the body it uses.

Using an alpha layer didn't work because it would also alpha out the body addon as well.. So deleting the body scripts with the cuts already made in the area that gets hidden was the only way in our situation.

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Rick Nightingale]

Hmm... that's a situation we haven't met yet but yes, if a body add-on uses the BOM texture then the alpha layer won't be useful there. Will remember that one, should she get any. (Otherwise I would likely have had a "D'oh" moment, lol)

[Qie Niangao]

I'm not sure what a "body add-on" is, exactly, but it reminded me that the standard BOM UV map has just the one arm area, mirrored left and right, which is something the alpha-cuts can handle but not alpha masking, except with some work-arounds. I think Slink addresses this with something called an "asymmetry harness" but I never really used it and I've never bothered to investigate what other bodies do about it, if anything.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

On 9/11/2022 at 4:28 PM, Qie Niangao said:

I'm not sure what a "body add-on" is, exactly, but it reminded me that the standard BOM UV map has just the one arm area, mirrored left and right, which is something the alpha-cuts can handle but not alpha masking, except with some work-arounds. I think Slink addresses this with something called an "asymmetry harness" but I never really used it and I've never bothered to investigate what other bodies do about it, if anything.

BOM has left slots, allowing any mesh body to make use of asymmetrical textures. Before BOM existed, Slink had created their own left-arm/leg implementation and the asymmetry harness is a backwards-compatibility thing, so those old asymmetrical appliers can still be used -- it's an onion layer.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:08 AM, Lewis Luminos said:

What annoys me more is when autohide doesn't automatically UN-hide the body when you take the garment off.

The current Maitreya autohide script does just that.

Unlike many of the posters here, I have had excellent results with the current Maitreya autohide. My bane is no-mod clothing containing the old version that does not unhide when detached.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

The current Maitreya autohide script does just that.

Unlike many of the posters here, I have had excellent results with the current Maitreya autohide. My bane is no-mod clothing containing the old version that does not unhide when detached.

I think a lot of problems can happen with linked folders and different things loading at the different times..

Our situation was, the addon was loading before the body and  then the body would rezz and the addon wouldn't hide the part of the body for the addon body..

While messing with the addon, which I had to run out and get a new version of because I didn't have it.. The addon was failing to unhide the body quite a bit.. Enough times that it made me think, well this can be a problem on the other end, switching to a folder without the addon..

We tried to see if we could delete the scripts from the addon to test out an alpha layer in the folder, but those wouldn't delete using the addon hud or the main hud..

So we ended up having to delete the body scripts instead, because for some reason the body has the ability to have it's scripts deleted, but their body addon doesn't even though the option is in it's hud.. I was like Wha? 0o

This was with a fresh bought Maitreya petite addon.

Another big problem is, there are creators still making things with the old scripts, as well as not updating things to the newer scripts..

Myself, I'm just making my alpha layers as I go along and pretty much not going to mess with those that  want to sell no mod, but don't feel the need to keep up to date or don't feel they have to update their things.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Qie Niangao]

8 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

BOM has left slots, allowing any mesh body to make use of asymmetrical textures. Before BOM existed, Slink had created their own left-arm/leg implementation and the asymmetry harness is a backwards-compatibility thing, so those old asymmetrical appliers can still be used -- it's an onion layer.

Thanks, I didn't understand the IMG_USE_BAKED_LEFTARM and IMG_USE_BAKED_LEFTLEG channels until you mentioned this and I looked up the relevant sections of the BOM knowledge base article. My earlier understanding was based on Slink's docs about the asymmetry harness that was introduced when their "Redux" body versions first used BOM, very early in the feature's history:

Quote

What is the Asymmetry Harness for?
Previously we could give you asymmetrical options especially for tattoos and alpha zones for asymmetrical mesh clothing, via script and HUD. Bakes on Mesh brings us back to the symmetrical avatar that we had prior to mesh bodies. For boring, technical limitation reasons, we created the asymmetry harness especially so that your asymmetrical tattoo appliers would still work, and so that you could still use alpha zones. You may need to request a chest/legs tattoo layer from your tattoo maker to wear along with the asymmetrical applier to complete your tattoo.

I think I now understand the history here. (I seem to recall Slink's earliest Redux release, before the other bodies,  jumped the gun and used bake channel textures that had to be replaced when the BOM feature was officially released.) So I'm glad to learn how to make asymmetrical alpha masks for standard BOM bodies, if ever the need arises, meaning the alpha-cuts kludge and associated auto-hide misfeature are indeed unnecessary.

Regarding auto-hide specifically, I wonder if other bodies have gotten smarter, but the ones I use almost always screw up when I'm trying on clothing with overlapping auto-hide patterns, and put on the next item and then remove the previous one. It seems almost as if the auto-hide mechanism of these bodies doesn't maintain a reference list of all attachments responsible for hiding each face—but that seems so fundamental they couldn't possibly have screwed it up, right?