1 second Orb timing, is it necessary

[Codex Alpha]

The only 'force' I see exerted on anyone today is some legitimate 'explorer' or people traversing Mainland regions - with the expectation that LL's promise of 'exploration' and 'discovery' are met.

"Force", as defined in context as 'compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing' is objectively and observably and factually being exerted on random individuals, taking control of their avatars against their will  - and not 'reasonably' pushing them to a nearby parcel or safe parcel in the region - but ejecting them back to their home - which has been reported as severely affecting user experience in Second Life.

Nowhere in the OP or responses that request that orbs when used are set to a more reasonable delay 'forces' any land owner to do anything, other than be considerate of other's usage of the platform.

The claim that LL doesn't read forums or take people's experience into consideration when moderating, updating and improving the platform is false. If the posters who claim this truly believed there own words, they would never see another person's posts, requests or suggestions as such a threat - or they wouldn't fight so hard against it.

If they have the time to moderate the forums and especially the relatively rare 'hot' topics such as this one, it doesn't take much effort to write a note about both party's concerns and discuss it at the next platform staff meeting.

Force: Use of a compelling force that exerts one's will over another's control of their avatar - and without their consent. This can be physical as in real life, or by the use of technological means or process inworld.

strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of motion or change : active power

violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing

Edited June 6, 2022 by Codex Alpha
People want to argue words now apparently

[Love Zhaoying]

18 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

The only 'force' I see exerted on anyone today is some legitimate 'explorer' or people traversing Mainland regions - with the expectation that LL's promise of 'exploration' and 'discovery' are met.

"Force", as defined in context as 'compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing' is objectively and observably and factually being exerted on random individuals, taking control of their avatars against their will  - and not 'reasonably' pushing them to a nearby parcel or safe parcel in the region - but ejecting them back to their home - which has been reported as severely affecting user experience in Second Life.

Nowhere in the OP or responses that request that orbs when used are set to a more reasonable delay 'forces' any land owner to do anything, other than be considerate of other's usage of the platform.

The claim that LL doesn't read forums or take people's experience into consideration when moderating, updating and improving the platform is false. If the posters who claim this truly believed there own words, they would never see another person's posts, requests or suggestions as such a threat - or they wouldn't fight so hard against it.

If they have the time to moderate the forums and especially the relatively rare 'hot' topics such as this one, it doesn't take much effort to write a note about both party's concerns and discuss it at the next platform staff meeting.

May the Force be with you!

[Rowan Amore]

11 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

The only survey done on mainland security settings whether orb or parcel settings used to be and maybe still is on the wiki and says that less than 5% of mainland parcels have any security at all on them. My experience travelling around is that if anything that percentage is lower now than it was 10 years ago or whenever that survey was done. The tiny few "explorers" are better characterised as the majority of mainland landowners.

To this point, I've been riding along Route 9 for the past couple of hours.  I've yet to encounter any orbs let alone a 0 sec orb.  Take note, also, that my driving skills leave a lot to be desired.  I've veered off dozens of times and a few times on purpose.  Nothing.  Nada.

So, we're all discussing something of a rarity on mainland.  Why on earth would LL bother changing something that effects such a small percentage of people on BOTH sides of the discussion?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So, we're all discussing something of a rarity on mainland.  Why on earth would LL bother changing something that effects such a small percentage of people on BOTH sides of the discussion?

The vocal minority wants it!

[Sammy Huntsman]

I think this argument is very tedious and ridiculous. And also the points are subjective. I mean everyone is their own person and will choose to do what they want to a certain degree. Whether it be exploring mainland or even setting their orbs to 0 seconds and you get teleported home. I think at the end of the day, it is the choice of the user who owns said orb. To set it however they want. I mean they bought it, they own that little chunk of land. Let them enjoy it, as much as you enjoy exploring mainland. Ngl Mainland does need an overhaul, but I mean the aesthetics. Some of it looks ugly as sin. Why aren't we talking about that? Lol 

[Codex Alpha]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

To this point, I've been riding along Route 9 for the past couple of hours.  I've yet to encounter any orbs let alone a 0 sec orb.  Take note, also, that my driving skills leave a lot to be desired.  I've veered off dozens of times and a few times on purpose.  Nothing.  Nada.

So, we're all discussing something of a rarity on mainland.  Why on earth would LL bother changing something that effects such a small percentage of people on BOTH sides of the discussion?

Because experiences may vary between people and their usage of the platform. As many have pointed out how they have allegedly been assaulted or otherwise put upon in one way or another - their experience on the platform may vary from others - and dismissing their concerns or denying their personal experience doesn't help to come to a solution.

If the OP did not experience this, or if it was truly a 'rare' occurrence then they probably wouldn't have bothered to post about it. Neither would I in my own recent post.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Sammy Huntsman said:

I think this argument is very tedious and ridiculous. And also the points are subjective. I mean everyone is their own person and will choose to do what they want to a certain degree. Whether it be exploring mainland or even setting their orbs to 0 seconds and you get teleported home. I think at the end of the day, it is the choice of the user who owns said orb. To set it however they want. I mean they bought it, they own that little chunk of land. Let them enjoy it, as much as you enjoy exploring mainland. Ngl Mainland does need an overhaul, but I mean the aesthetics. Some of it looks ugly as sin. Why aren't we talking about that? Lol 

Great job! Now, if we can just show that this is a "solid" reason!

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Great job! Now, if we can just show that this is a "solid" reason!

The solid reason would be, is that everyone is their own person. And that there are gonna be people who set their orbs to that duration of time and there will be people who set it to different duration of time. I mean you can configure an orb. But at the end of the day, people will choose what they think is best for them. If that isn't a solid enough reason, I don't know what is. Lol 

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

To this point, I've been riding along Route 9 for the past couple of hours.  I've yet to encounter any orbs let alone a 0 sec orb.  Take note, also, that my driving skills leave a lot to be desired.  I've veered off dozens of times and a few times on purpose.  Nothing.  Nada.

So, we're all discussing something of a rarity on mainland.  Why on earth would LL bother changing something that effects such a small percentage of people on BOTH sides of the discussion?

You have a point to a point. I took the opportunity earlier today to fly around a few regions on Mainland and found very few banlines or 0 second orbs myself, other than the one 10 seconds out from my place that I already showed a picture of. There used to be a lot more in past. Is it because as a few have mentioned that Mainland is so abandoned now that it is predominantly just parcels held by land owners who don't need the privacy since they don't live there anyway? Since there are so few that a ban of a 0 sec Orb would affect, may as well make the rule so it is consistent with Belliseria.

[AnthonyJoanne]

21 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

The only 'force' I see exerted on anyone today is some legitimate 'explorer' or people traversing Mainland regions - with the expectation that LL's promise of 'exploration' and 'discovery' are met.

Enough.

Seriously ... enough.

LL did NOT promise you the right to enter other people's property. Stop misrepresenting LL's promise as meaning you are entitled to what you want.

And while we're at it these are your words:
 

Quote

 

Although I am a person who is very much open and accepting of being open in a publicly accessible region, and others may want to get 100% privacy without paying for it - the result and practical experience would be better served by methods adopted by many other platforms at this point - serving up on-demand, single instanced 'experiences'.

This would take the privacy landowners issues and solve them by granting them what they wish - at whatever affordable price LL would offer - remove the compartmentalized parcel from the Mainland, opening it up to other users who are more open to a community experience, - thus removing the need for disrupting security measures - that will affect the positive experience of other users.

 

 

I was going to let this go, but you just don't seem to get it.

The people who want privacy ARE paying for it. They paid for it when the bought the land and the keep paying for it by retaining their premium membership.

Ban lines ... remember. Part of the deal when those people BOUGHT the land. The right to stop people entering their property if they so choose.

And worse ... you think it's justifiable to force people off the Mainland. What will you do if they don't want to move ... herd them into camps? Because that's exactly what you sound like.

You keep harping on about the community experience ... does it not occur to you that what YOU want is not what the MAJORITY of the community on the Mainland wants? That you are, in fact, in the minority. Want evidence? I offer you your own words again:
 

Quote

 

I'm surrounded on all sides by ban lines, with only one side that is open to mobility and only because it is partially abandoned land and a small strange strip for sale beside it.

 

Everyone around you wants privacy. You do not. It certainly appears that you are the minority. So instead of making other people move ... perhaps YOU should move?

Convince LL to make a continent for those of you who want unimpeded access and off you go. "At whatever affordable price LL would offer".

Either way - I'm done with you. Bit bucket time.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

The solid reason would be, is that everyone is their own person. And that there are gonna be people who set their orbs to that duration of time and there will be people who set it to different duration of time. I mean you can configure an orb. But at the end of the day, people will choose what they think is best for them. If that isn't a solid enough reason, I don't know what is. Lol 

Everyone may be their own person but unless they are living in some remote area with no neighbours, they are also living in a community where respecting the the needs and wants of others and their right to enjoy the "world" in the manner they choose, within reason, shouldn't be infringed on.

[Luna Bliss]

56 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

The only 'force' I see exerted on anyone today is some legitimate 'explorer' or people traversing Mainland regions - with the expectation that LL's promise of 'exploration' and 'discovery' are met.

"Force", as defined in context as 'compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing' is objectively and observably and factually being exerted on random individuals, taking control of their avatars against their will  - and not 'reasonably' pushing them to a nearby parcel or safe parcel in the region - but ejecting them back to their home - which has been reported as severely affecting user experience in Second Life.

The word 'force' does not only define physical force -- it can include number 4 from Merriam-Webster, and that is what I meant -- the capacity to persuade.
And for me, the attempt to convince others was used inappropriately and excessively at times. Twisting meanings, sometimes deliberately and sometimes not. Bringing in irrelevant facts in an attempt to win at least some point in an argument, usually not the main point the argument was even about.
It's the typical realm of 'lawyers gone bad', which I derisively call 'wannabe lawyers'.
It can escalate to a form of griefing, or at the very best some form of misturbation, annoying to those witnessing it but for some reason necessary to those performing it.  

4. the capacity to persuade

    Example: surely you were influenced by the force of his arguments?

Synonyms for force

    authority, cogency, conclusiveness, convincingness, effectiveness, forcefulness, persuasion, persuasiveness, suasiveness

Words Related to force

    impact, might, power, punch, strength, weight

    believability, credibility, soundness, validity

    authoritativeness, definitiveness

    influence, sway

    appeal, seductiveness

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/force

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

You have a point to a point. I took the opportunity earlier today to fly around a few regions on Mainland and found very few banlines or 0 second orbs myself, other than the one 10 seconds out from my place that I already showed a picture of. There used to be a lot more in past. Is it because as a few have mentioned that Mainland is so abandoned now that it is predominantly just parcels held by land owners who don't need the privacy since they don't live there anyway? Since there are so few that a ban of a 0 sec Orb would affect, may as well make the rule so it is consistent with Belliseria.

I think it is likely that there haven't been a lot (relative to travel, as in your experience) of the contentious orbs for awhile; but it only takes 1 for someone to have a bad day, and presume the problem is larger than it really is. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Everyone may be their own person but unless they are living in some remote area with no neighbours, they are also living in a community where respecting the the needs and wants of others and their right to enjoy the "world" in the manner they choose, within reason, shouldn't be infringed on.

What exactly is being infringed on exactly? I mean unless you have money, boating and flying and driving on mainland is a privilege. I mean when I didn't have money. I walked on the roads for hours. Just checking it out, and found some cool spots. You seem to think that me protecting my "private property" is infringing your rights in some way. Why should you have impeded access to all the land on mainland? 

[Rowan Amore]

15 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

If the OP did not experience this, or if it was truly a 'rare' occurrence then they probably wouldn't have bothered to post about it. Neither would I in my own recent post.

It's still a rare occurrence from what MOST people have said.  The OP has been in SL for 15 years and has mentioned it ONCE in the forums.    Hardly an everyday thing.

[Aethelwine]

3 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

A lot of pages and a lot of things said, when the most simplest of solutions could solve the issue, protect the privacy of those who need it the most, and to allow us 'explorers' to Explore and Discover as Second Life promises it's customers by;

- setting orb delays to minimum 15 seconds from within the API,  overriding any countering scripts.

Not one solid argument has been made as to why 15 seconds or more is not enough to attain their privacy or to secure their belongings, or stop someone sitting on their sofa.

 

I am not really familiar with how to use the word API correctly, so this may sound a little odd to someone more of a scripter. But as I understand it the API or function that is used in orbs is the same API that is used when ejecting someone that is griefing you.

They could be in your bedroom flaunting their sexual bits, or they could be rezzing replicating prims, showering you with particle followers or any manner of nastiness that people sometimes get up to. I doubt you would consider 15 seconds short enough time for dealing with someone like that, in that situation you want them gone with a right click and a ban or an eject, now not in 15 seconds time.

I imagine to build in some way to tell the difference between some happless adventurer in their sopwith camel, or their airship passing overhead and someone griefing next to you in to the API itself would be difficult if possible at all. 

Therefore I don't think what you are suggesting can be a solution to the problem.

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Since there are so few that a ban of a 0 sec Orb would affect, may as well make the rule so it is consistent with Belliseria.

So change something that doesn't need changed.  For a handful of people.  For a handful of parcels.  Yeah, makes no sense whatsoever.  There are plenty of roads and airspace over Belli.  Enjoy!

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Sammy Huntsman said:

Why should you have impeded access to all the land on mainland? 

Not sarcasm, just straw arguments: 

Who's going to make sure we are not up to no good, breaking TOS, going against covenants, etc. if random people can't check out our setup?

So what, if travel and exploration is a "minority" activity - if we deny just one avatar those rights, then where's the freedom?

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Everyone may be their own person but unless they are living in some remote area with no neighbours, they are also living in a community where respecting the the needs and wants of others and their right to enjoy the "world" in the manner they choose, within reason, shouldn't be infringed on.

I might agree with this, to a degree.

But here's the thing...many feel having to encounter a stranger in their house for even 15 seconds so that a few "explorers' don't get booted is unreasonable.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The OP has been in SL for 15 years and has mentioned it ONCE in the forums.   

This is one of those topics where the OP disappeared ages and pages ago!

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Not sarcasm, just straw arguments: 

Who's going to make sure we are not up to no good, breaking TOS, going against covenants, etc. if random people can't check out our setup?

So what, if travel and exploration is a "minority" activity - if we deny just one avatar those rights, then where's the freedom?

But you can freely explore mainland, people are just saying that they don't want you on their little piece of land. There is nothing impeding you from doing that.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I might agree with this, to a degree.

But here's the thing...many feel having to encounter a stranger in their house for even 15 seconds so that a few "explorers' don't get booted is unreasonable.

I mean if we are gonna use an RL example. I am certainly not gonna wanna chit chat with someone who nonchalantly comes into my house. I am telling them to get out right away or I will call the cops and take them out by force. How is that any different than someone using an orb and kicking you home instantly? 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

I am not really familiar with how to use the word API correctly, so this may sound a little odd to someone more of a scripter. But as I understand it the API or function that is used in orbs is the same API that is used when ejecting someone that is griefing you.

They could be in your bedroom flaunting their sexual bits, or they could be rezzing replicating prims, showering you with particle followers or any manner of nastiness that people sometimes get up to. I doubt you would consider 15 seconds short enough time for dealing with someone like that, in that situation you want them gone with a right click and a ban or an eject, now not in 15 seconds time.

I imagine to build in some way to tell the difference between some happless adventurer in their sopwith camel, or their airship passing overhead and someone griefing next to you in to the API itself would be difficult if possible at all. 

Therefore I don't think what you are suggesting can be a solution to the problem.

Awesome - great logic! Solid argument. Who wants to let a griefer hang for 15 seconds?

There is the "teleport home" manual function I think, in one of the menus? That's not an API call, technically (no script required).

[Ardy Lay]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is one of those topics where the OP disappeared ages and pages ago!

They fled the scene like they started a forest fire with a baby gender revelation stunt.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean if we are gonna use an RL example. I am certainly not gonna wanna chit chat with someone who nonchalantly comes into my house. I am telling them to get out right away or I will call the cops and take them out by force. How is that any different than someone using an orb and kicking you home instantly? 

 

You remind me of the joke, "When I bring you breakfast in bed, I would hope to be thanked. Not all this, 'Who are you, and what are you doing in my house?' "