Dear Content creators.

[Coffee Pancake]

The assumption is that scripts are no mod unless explicitly stated.

I do wish creators would include product/box images with full permissions though .. getting the UUID of that can really simplify wardrobe use, and it makes it possible to pass a friend a copy of the product image in world.

[Emma Krokus]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The assumption is that scripts are no mod unless explicitly stated.

I do wish creators would include product/box images with full permissions though .. getting the UUID of that can really simplify wardrobe use, and it makes it possible to pass a friend a copy of the product image in world.

Oh yes please! I especially hate no copy textures inside product boxes! It causes the texture to be deleted from the prim when it's deposited into your inventory... and I dont want to have to keep a back-up box plus a texture image - or have to pack a new back-up box just to have the product picture on it.

With rezzable items, I like to have the actual item in my inventory as the back-up box - rather than having to unpack a box each time I want to look at a product. And named something sensible - another reason I don't like no mod stuff in general). Having a no copy product box makes that a positively dangerous undertaking!

 

[Codex Alpha]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:58 PM, Polenth Yue said:

When I had things with no mod scripts, I'd select mod from the tick boxes, but have the vendor image and description clearly state it was mod (scripts no mod). I didn't have anyone get confused by that. Though these days, nothing I have on the marketplace has no mod scripts, as I set them to mod as much as possible.

 

If the script in question was from an open source or similar permissions, or cobbled together with copy and paste, then it might make sense to pay it forward.

Other than that, the way someone might script something is intellectual property in itself, and doesn't need to be exposed, and 99.9% of the customers out there won't need, or care to need access to it. A script that is copy only does not affect mod/copy permissions anyway as it is listed on the marketplace.

On the other hand, there is a well known avatar sitting script helper that makes your product not look modifiable, even though it is, and that is more of an issue to me as people in the past have said "This claims to be mod/copy item but it isn't in the listing"....

 

[Polenth Yue]

15 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

If the script in question was from an open source or similar permissions, or cobbled together with copy and paste, then it might make sense to pay it forward.

Other than that, the way someone might script something is intellectual property in itself, and doesn't need to be exposed, and 99.9% of the customers out there won't need, or care to need access to it. A script that is copy only does not affect mod/copy permissions anyway as it is listed on the marketplace.

On the other hand, there is a well known avatar sitting script helper that makes your product not look modifiable, even though it is, and that is more of an issue to me as people in the past have said "This claims to be mod/copy item but it isn't in the listing"....

When the scripts were no mod, I'd be contacted asking for tweaks to them. When the scripts became mod, that stopped. Not all customers will want to edit them, but the ones that do are much happier when they can change it themselves. If scripting was the entire point of the products, there'd be an argument for hiding the code, but my scripts are really not that special. It's the original meshes and textures that make my products unique.

[Codex Alpha]

Experiences may vary.

[Coffee Pancake]

On 5/28/2022 at 2:17 PM, Polenth Yue said:

When the scripts were no mod, I'd be contacted asking for tweaks to them. When the scripts became mod, that stopped. Not all customers will want to edit them, but the ones that do are much happier when they can change it themselves. If scripting was the entire point of the products, there'd be an argument for hiding the code, but my scripts are really not that special. It's the original meshes and textures that make my products unique.

If I were to do an open source LSL project I would release the scripts themselves as no-mod and then bake in a link to the repo where the source could be obtained.

[Crim Mip]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:43 AM, bigmoe Whitfield said:

I'm going to keep this simple and short and vent a moment.

 

NO DEMO =/= NO SALE

I do not go play fetch in world, it's a waste of time on my part to come having to hunt for demo's. 

 

NO COPY NO MOD =/= NO SALE

what ever convoluted ideal has gotten into peoples heads about no copy, no mod, has to stop,  period, you want sales,  you want business,  stop, I'm not buying from you. 

15 years, I've been here, some of the bigger creators should understand their customer base. 

 

For clothing, I very much need a demo to make sure it fits. I don't trust the claims for what bodies a clothing item is rigged for. For other items, maybe not, but for buildings or landscape items? You need to either have a demo or have it rezzed in world to look at.

No Copy usually means no sale. Items that depend on an offsite server to be redelivered are potentially no copy since if that server goes down, no more deliveries. The best example of that is the En Garde! game. Those used to be all over and were a lot of fun. Then the redelivery/licencing  server went offline and no more replacements. It would have been nice if those who'd purchased it had been sent copy versions at that point, but nope.

With No Mod it depends. A hud based texturing/recoloring system is often fine with me. On the other hand, if it's a building, building component, or build kit, it better be mod. One of my biggest pet peeves with the old gachas (and the stupid new replacements) is even items meant to use for building are no-copy, no mod. If I'm using something to build with, I don't care if it's transfer, but I need to make it work with my build, not have the item dictate how it can fit.

[Alexacroft]

my store doesn't have that much stuff but i always sell copy/mod with a dev kit so you can customize how you want if you dont like how it comes.

This is from the time i used to be anime/furry back in the day. This is how items were copy/mod+dev kit so i keept on going like that 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Alexacroft

[Tahiti Rae]

In different situations, different products, different licenses, different *deadlines*, different 1st life interference, etc. there may be no demos.  Mostly making antiques with a little dash of artsy clothing on the side, I don't have many demos.  I always make demos for events.  I'm always glad to refund a customer if they're totally not happy with a product but that has never come up yet.  I have been asked to adjust or change a custom texture or two and happily complied.  I would also consider rmaking a demo if someone required it and asked nicely.  As a shopper, demos can save me money, but I can often tell if I really, really want it if the ad is good (w/out photos of non-sl models, etc.).  I know my fav merchants and how they create.  When I purchase without trying the demo, I fully understand it was my choice and at my own risk.  If a demo is necessary, I politely ask via note card.  One thing is for sure - merchants are SL's bread and butter and it's never productive to lump them into stereotypes.  You never know what's going on in their lives.  Once you become a merchant, you discover the work it requires and it becomes less necessary to insult.  On the other hand, every shopper is entitled to their personal preferences. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Tahiti Rae

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:43 AM, bigmoe Whitfield said:

I'm going to keep this simple and short and vent a moment.

 

NO DEMO =/= NO SALE

I do not go play fetch in world, it's a waste of time on my part to come having to hunt for demo's. 

 

NO COPY NO MOD =/= NO SALE

what ever convoluted ideal has gotten into peoples heads about no copy, no mod, has to stop,  period, you want sales,  you want business,  stop, I'm not buying from you. 

15 years, I've been here, some of the bigger creators should understand their customer base. 

 

Are we really going to do this again? 

How many threads have to be made month after month, year after year, about this subject? We get it, some customers want mod and will not buy ANYTHING  that is no mod. But you know what, merchants get to dictate what perms they want to sell their items with. Shouting this over and over does nothing and only makes you sound whiney. 

Seriously, the big merchants are still going to make money without your purchases. And going by your vocalizations in previous threads about this topic they seem to still be doing well with out your purchases.

Perhaps sending a notecard to the merchants you have issues with directly would work better than shouting about it here over and over where they probably dont see it. 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

3 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Are we really going to do this again? 

How many threads have to be made month after month, year after year, about this subject? We get it, some customers want mod and will not buy ANYTHING  that is no mod. But you know what, merchants get to dictate what perms they want to sell their items with. Shouting this over and over does nothing and only makes you sound whiney. 

Seriously, the big merchants are still going to make money without your purchases. And going by your vocalizations in previous threads about this topic they seem to still be doing well with out your purchases.

Perhaps sending a notecard to the merchants you have issues with directly would work better than shouting about it here over and over where they probably dont see it. 

I'm going to do this my way and this was my choosing.   

[Crim Mip]

On 6/24/2022 at 1:53 PM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Are we really going to do this again? 

How many threads have to be made month after month, year after year, about this subject? We get it, some customers want mod and will not buy ANYTHING  that is no mod. But you know what, merchants get to dictate what perms they want to sell their items with. Shouting this over and over does nothing and only makes you sound whiney. 

Seriously, the big merchants are still going to make money without your purchases. And going by your vocalizations in previous threads about this topic they seem to still be doing well with out your purchases.

Perhaps sending a notecard to the merchants you have issues with directly would work better than shouting about it here over and over where they probably dont see it. 

If it's an item I'd otherwise buy if it were mod, I do sent a polite notecard or IM (whichever the seller prefers) asking if they'd consider selling it to me mod. A number of times the answer has been yes or "The MP listing is out of date, it is mod." In a couple they explained they didn't sell them mod because making any real changes would break them. One of those still did when I explained the only reason I wanted it mod was to put the item in a scene rezzer which required a script be added to it. A few "Sorry no" which then I have to decide whether to buy. No responses are worse than a no and usually mean I won't buy. Then there were the two special people. One thought I was trying to copybot their item, the other acted like I'd insulted their artistic vision. I verbally punted them to the curb, blocked them, and noted their store name so I'd never purchase from them ever.

[Florence Millar]

No mod - As long as my textures are safe, and my scripts cant be taken, this includes mesh and sculpt maps, then fine Mod all you want, but I tend to not put out demo's in world for items sold for 10L or less.

 

Can't Imagine why I would do that.

 

If they made it to where you can mod / replace a texture,map. and the like, and by clicking the texture it deletes it before you can copy bot it. I'm all for that change.

[Jenna Huntsman]

10 minutes ago, Florence Millar said:

If they made it to where you can mod / replace a texture,map. and the like, and by clicking the texture it deletes it before you can copy bot it. I'm all for that change.

That isn't how "copybotting" works.

TLDR: "Copybotting" pretty much anything (except scripts) is possible, regardless of the perms on the item, if it's rezzed or worn, etc.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

13 hours ago, Florence Millar said:

No mod - As long as my textures are safe, and my scripts cant be taken, this includes mesh and sculpt maps, then fine Mod all you want, but I tend to not put out demo's in world for items sold for 10L or less.

 

Can't Imagine why I would do that.

 

If they made it to where you can mod / replace a texture,map. and the like, and by clicking the texture it deletes it before you can copy bot it. I'm all for that change.

Hi, texture tools to dump what the gpu see's can be done by using the legit software for developers like nvidia has.   copybot is an old method of grabbing everything.   so basically if the gpu can see it,  it can be had simply with tools provided by the gpu makers themselves.