Dear Content creators.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

I'm going to keep this simple and short and vent a moment.

 

NO DEMO =/= NO SALE

I do not go play fetch in world, it's a waste of time on my part to come having to hunt for demo's. 

 

NO COPY NO MOD =/= NO SALE

what ever convoluted ideal has gotten into peoples heads about no copy, no mod, has to stop,  period, you want sales,  you want business,  stop, I'm not buying from you. 

15 years, I've been here, some of the bigger creators should understand their customer base. 

 

[Jules Catlyn]

Why does this have to be repeated over and over? I have seen this discussion dozens of  times now and it always becomes the same back and forth.

[Annie Nova]

...And nothing ever changes

[bigmoe Whitfield]

2 hours ago, Annie Nova said:

...And nothing ever changes

my money is not helping them, so there is that, if others followed suit,  we could help fix this is issue.

2 hours ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Why does this have to be repeated over and over? I have seen this discussion dozens of  times now and it always becomes the same back and forth.

there should be zero back and forth,  it's simple.  today it ends here with me, if there are no demos,  you will never get a sale from myself and possibly others. (dont take this as I'm talking to you directly, I'm being in general)

[Alwin Alcott]

52 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

there should be zero back and forth,  it's simple. 

so you post on a discussion platform but don't want discussion ... strange.

 

Quote

we could help fix this is issue

don't count me in, i don't mind and see no issue in it.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Alwin Alcott

[Annie Nova]

53 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

my money is not helping them, so there is that, if others followed suit,  we could help fix this is issue.

I also don't buy if there is no demo, and I know a lot of others do the same but it's still happening, unless everyone does it, I don't see anything changing. Sad, but that's life.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

33 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so you post on a discussion platform but don't want discussion ... strange.

 

don't count me in, i don't mind and see no issue in it.

Going to dead landmarks, fun fun, right?  oh look cant get the demo, because some people do not update their landmarks. yes many are like this,  and also I'm not into feeding their traffic numbers.  also no copy objects no mod objects, you REALLY enjoy... wow. okay all you. 

[panterapolnocy]

6 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

NO DEMO =/= NO SALE

For me it depends on the type of item. If it's something simple, like a funny "catnip bag in the mouth" attachment or an animated follower - I can live without a demo. However, if it's a clothing piece demo is a must - I do utilize an avatar with the old "Linden body", so something like "fitted for [insert mesh body brand] only" most probably won't work for me. But sometimes it actually may, to the level I feel comfortable with - maybe after creating an alpha layer by hand, maybe after playing with a few sliders. Without a demo I cannot assess that, so generally speaking I agree with you, but not necessarily in all cases.

6 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

NO COPY NO MOD =/= NO SALE

The "no copy" and "no mod" permissions restriction applied at the same time I am only able to accept on items that actually make use of it - pet food, limited quantity sales (collectibles), ammunition for guns - maybe. On anything else the "no copy" alone gives a bit restrictive feel, sometimes can even lead to the loss of an item - be it a HUD with closed-source scripts that randomly cease to work or an item like a car that could poof permanently after encountering an inventory/region error - no items backups can be done with this restriction, no clothing copies tuning for individual outfits is available, either.

"No mod" can be useful if a creator is dealing with less knowledgeable residents (if you don't install a "detonation" button, nothing will blow up...) or just want to limit users from making unwanted changes to their items. Greediness aside ("I won't give you a modifiable white shirt of mine, because you'll be able to make any colour for free"), I can easily think of a case where a Resident A could buy a hat, change its texture to something hideous (personal preference), and go to an event. Resident B who would also attend that event and thinking about getting a hat from the same store could notice that ugly hat, check its creator, confirm that this is what they wanted to get and decide to not get anything from the creator. Scripts being closed source, no mod, I have no issues with for obvious reasons, most of the stuff I see (especially mesh) I wouldn't know how to edit anyway... but sometimes I'd like to be able to change a prim or two on the thing I got, but I cannot - even if it would be justified.

Of course, if that creator does not offer demos, that would be even more hard hitting.

Perhaps educating the merchants better on the permission system would help. For example many of them still may think, wrongly, that "no mod" prevents copybotting and that's why they untick "modify" option.

Edited May 25, 2022 by panterapolnocy

[animats]

I'd like to have "no mod" broken down into "can change textures" and "can change prim properties". I sell my escalators as no mod because if people resize them, even slightly, they will break. Then they complain. But that prevents them from retexturing, which some people want to do.

[Gabriele Graves]

I like that idea as long as "can change textures" really means "can change prim/mesh face properties" and so brings along things such as texture repeats/offset/rotation, materials, changing alpha, transparency, lighting, fullbright and glow as these are often changed when re-texturing too.

[Coffee Pancake]

I'm a little more forgiving for no demo .. I would always prefer a demo.

No MOD is a deal breaker for anything rezzed. If I break it fiddling, well that's on me .. 

MOD clothing & avatar accessories is a major incentive.

[Gabriele Graves]

Mesh Clothing/Bodies/Head/Footwear/Hair:  No Demo, no sale.  No texture HUD in demo, no sale.  Large glowy barriers around avatar and clothing so you literally cannot see the item, no sale.  I'll buy no-mod otherwise most of the market would be off limits but will heavily favour vendors who offer mod.

Other Attachments: Will not buy unless there is a demo or I can see people around with the item and there is a good description of what it can do.  Heavily favour vendors with demos and mod.

BOM/Applier items: No demo, no sale for things like makeup, brows, eyes.  No real choice for tattoos as they are almost all without demo but would not buy if the advert doesn't clearly show the design.  Mod is preferred for tinting things like makeup and brows but will buy if I like the item but not as much I would pay if there is a tintable version in.

Nail Appliers:  No point being mod and mostly no-demo.  Will buy as long as the advert clearly shows the item texture.

Rezzables: No sale unless the vendor has a demo rezzed out.  Will heavily favour vendors who offer mod for small items, will not buy buildings unless they are mod.
 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Gabriele Graves
corrections

[Love Zhaoying]

Wait, is this the Pet Peeve thread? I'm lost, halp!

 

[Codex Alpha]

 

[Alwin Alcott]

23 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

 you REALLY enjoy... wow. okay all you. 

if i don't like it ... i don't buy it... that's all and simple, for whatever reaons

But still see no need to post this over and over(and over)  .. 

[Extrude Ragu]

No mod = No sale for me too.

I think one of the things the causes this upset that we need to vent about it is that we're constantly getting our noses rubbed in it.

By default, every time we search no-mod items show up in the search results. Yes you can then modify the search to show only mod items, but once you've seen it, the damage is done - You've been reminded of how much greed there is out there and how much talent goes to waste because of greed. Worse still, you might forget about this greed and forget to check if the item is mod before purchase and be grieved when you find out it isn't. This leads to an unhappy shopping experience.

IMO, as shoppers we should have shopping preferences, so that things we don't like aren't rubbed in our faces every time we shop. If we can require our search results to all be mod, we don't have to be reminded of this greed all the time and the grief is reduced.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Extrude Ragu

[Quistess Alpha]

34 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

as shoppers we should have shopping preferences, so that things we don't like aren't rubbed in our faces every time we shop. If we can require our search results to all be mod, we don't have to be reminded of this greed all the time and the grief is reduced.

I like this idea, can always file a jira. . .

[Anaiya Ahren]

Quote

By default, every time we search no-mod items

 I think that a lot of creators draw the line at  giving away the UUIDs for their textures and I don't think it would be honest to list something as "mod" if it has "no-mod" elements.  Do you just not buy anything with a texture HUD?  Surely people aren't selling texture change HUDs with the UUIDs visible to the end buyer? 

[Quistess Alpha]

4 minutes ago, Anaiya Ahren said:

 I think that a lot of creators draw the line at  giving away the UUIDs for their textures and I don't think it would be honest to list something as "mod" if it has "no-mod" elements.  Do you just not buy anything with a texture HUD?  Surely people aren't selling texture change HUDs with the UUIDs visible to the end buyer? 

Mod-enabled items are still useful even without access to the textures, for example to tint or to add (and remove!) scripts. Tinting a white shirt pink usually doesn't get the best results, but tinting a pink shirt to a better matching shade is a godsend sometimes.

Now, if LL had some blend mode options for tinting, that would be a game-changer, but alas.

[Anaiya Ahren]

Quote

Mod-enabled items are still useful even without access to the textures,

Of course but that doesn't make it honest to list an item with no mod scripts as "mod" in the marketplace permissions check box (which I assume is what determines whether an item shows up when we do a search with "mod" specified)?  I think....?

 

If sellers are honest and don't list items with no mod elements (like the script elements) as "mod" using the checkbox, won't those items be excluded from searches that specify "mod"? 

 

I'm not suggesting prim or mesh mods be locked down - I'm wondering how my mod-perm prims and mesh will be found if they've got a texture change no mod-script in them because it feels dishonest for me to list only partially modifiable items as "mod"?  How would mod-perm preferring customers find texture change items without being (even more) inundated with no mod items?  Am I doing my listings wrong maybe?  I just don't feel honest checking the "modify" box when I list an item if it has any no mod elements (like texture change scripts).

 

I'd like people who want the prims and mesh as modify permission to find my stuff if it meets the rest of their search parameter,  but I can't see how I can honestly list them so they're not excluded from searches filtered for the "modify" check box when they've got "no-mod" scripts in them.  Perhaps I'm doing that wrong?

 

 

[Quistess Alpha]

11 minutes ago, Anaiya Ahren said:

Of course but that doesn't make it honest to list an item with no mod scripts as "mod" in the marketplace permissions check box

I see mod-able items with no mod scripts listed as having modify permissions all the time? Seems honest enough to me.

ETA: if you cna get the 'See product details for permissions info' caveat to show up, that's even better for a modable item with no-mod scripts

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Quistess Alpha

[Anaiya Ahren]

Oh.  Ok, now I'm wondering if I should change all my listings.

 

I do use the "See product details..." box but I've listed anything with a no mod script as "copy" plus "See product details..."

 

Hmmmm.

[Jules Catlyn]

I sell vehicles in SL. It is common practice and accepted that if scripts are no mod but the rest of the vehicle is, that it is considered a modify item. There is nothing misleading about that. People can still changes textures and other parameters to their hearts content. We as creators only have 3 permissions to work with, so we choose the most relevant.

[Polenth Yue]

When I had things with no mod scripts, I'd select mod from the tick boxes, but have the vendor image and description clearly state it was mod (scripts no mod). I didn't have anyone get confused by that. Though these days, nothing I have on the marketplace has no mod scripts, as I set them to mod as much as possible.

[Gabriele Graves]

I tend to assume that something marked as mod on MP doesn't mean the scripts are mod.  If the scripts are mod then most likely thing is that everything is mod and so would expect it to be described prominently as full perm.