If people want privacy so bad they put up ban lines...

[Setsuki Takeda]

Why do they always seem to buy land right on the side of a Linden Road so when you have a bad sim crossing and slip off the edge you end up with your vehicle returned and cursing the "little dears" who could have saved some money (and improved the blood pressure of everyone who drives often) by buying inland areas with no road access.

 

I can kinda see it with water, they want a private beach but are too cheap to buy a private region, the whole point of roads is to provide access and let people move around though...

[Liaa Nova]

Maybe they themselves don't travel by road and so don't realise what happens to those who do?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Because it is their right to do so. Save your curses for LL, either for the bad region crossings or for the failure to establish LL-owned strips of land running down the sides of every road so that people who can't drive don't wind up in someone's living room. 

(No, I don't use ban lines, but I support the right of landowners whose land payments help keeping SL going to use the tools that LL gives us.)

[Coffee Pancake]

The problem with ban lines isn't the intent for privacy, it's how that system is implemented.

The viewer used to send parcel data to the viewer much earlier, everyone got upset about ban lines for miles, so LL did the bare minimum and delayed the sending of the data, so now we only know about ban lines as you're about to slam into them.

Really we need a rethink of the entire parcel access system with more granular control (like we can EEP with height ranges) and make the space below 500M always open to everyone, and some better way to communicate parcel access to nearby avatars that's isn't surprising or intrusive.

[Setsuki Takeda]

4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Really we need a rethink of the entire parcel access system with more granular control (like we can EEP with height ranges) and make the space below 500M always open to everyone, and some better way to communicate parcel access to nearby avatars that's isn't surprising or intrusive.

Most definitely, before I abandoned most of my land I had rentals and guest spaces for friends, the rule was that no orbs were allowed below 1500m (I don't want floating boxes visible from the ground on my land, even if the "multiscene rental" pace next door is a giant tower of blue squares) so people could fly past and access common areas without the risk of being ejected or having pop-ups spamming their viewer. Same thing for greeters (only in nearby chat, never as a pop-up, and LMs/NCs needed to be "touch to receive" rather than dumping junk in people's inventory as soon as they get near) and trackers.

I kinda wish the Bellesaria rules were expanded to all mainland, there's more than enough room in the sky to put up orbs for granular control of access (I had CasperSafe orbs set to each private area, and one overall land orb to manage a permanent ban list mostly for griefers and idiots who would rez "adult" poseballs on PG land) without blocking the ability of people to navigate. I would so very much love to fly in SL but, unless you just fly back and forth over Blake Sea or Bellesaria, it's an absolute mess...

 

Though people don't even follow the rules on Bellesaria where there's a covenant laid out telling them not to block the road or build low-hanging skyboxes or put security orbs up in public areas.

[KathrynLisbeth]

Ability to show parcel boundaries on the Mini Map is already present in some TPV's.    (Of course that is not present in the Default viewer.)

So...  If can show the parcel boundaries?

Why is HIGHLIGHT A BANNED PARCEL not on the mini-map?   Ya know?  Color the parcel Bright red?   (and/or Bright Green if is using the payment info restriction)

Then..   would be a definitive signal reported to individual viewers that a parcel is restricted.  Thus bypassing the need to see banlines on the inworld view from a great distance, or play the 'Well now you found a Security Orb (sensor scan)' game.

---------------

7 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Because it is their right to do so. Save your curses for LL, either for the bad region crossings or for the failure to establish LL-owned strips of land running down the sides of every road so that people who can't drive don't wind up in someone's living room....

 

 

Aya!!!   Instead of Providing a wider than the road right of way,  lets just get the Customers to fight each other!    YAY!  THUNDERDOME!

 

[Coffee Pancake]

43 minutes ago, KathrynLisbeth said:

Ability to show parcel boundaries on the Mini Map is already present in some TPV's.    (Of course that is not present in the Default viewer.)

So...  If can show the parcel boundaries?

Why is HIGHLIGHT A BANNED PARCEL not on the mini-map?   Ya know?  Color the parcel Bright red?   (and/or Bright Green if is using the payment info restriction)

Then..   would be a definitive signal reported to individual viewers that a parcel is restricted.  Thus bypassing the need to see banlines on the inworld view from a great distance, or play the 'Well now you found a Security Orb (sensor scan)' game.

Putting parcel lines on the mini map was something we (Catznip) did, we do show parcels you can't enter in red, however .. the viewer isn't told about such restrictions till the very last moment.

EG, here's me at my Lindy home

and here's how close I have to get before the viewer gets told I am forbidden.

If I was flying, it's unavoidable.

If your TPV of choice doesn't show parcels in red, shout at them, because the mini map totally should be showing that ... and (optionally) parcels for sale in yellow

[KathrynLisbeth]

 

22 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

... and here's how close I have to get before the viewer gets told I am forbidden...

 

So the delay to show until the very last moment thing is a result of the Servers not passing that info until the very last moment?    

Which I assume is tied to the 'How they decided to fix showing banlines in the inworld view' thing?  

[Markham Weatherwax]

Sim border still crossings are not easy in a vehicle, even though LL had supposedly made such crossings smoother prior to moving everything to the cloud. Now it is almost as hard as it was in the early days of Second Life. If you are speeding along in a car or plane, you can very well end up in someone's yard. You can also lose control of your vehicle after crossing even at very low speed. I hate ban lines and always have. But the one thing I hate more than ban lines is limited warning time security orbs. They can kick you right off to another parcel, which might have an orb that kicks you around some more. You are still rezzing things in so you can't see any signs or might not even get the pop-up warning before you find yourself kicked to the curb, or even back to home

I agree with your sentiments about ban lines on roadside parcels (and I say that about water way parcels too). But it is the landowner's right and privilege to have that option. If you need to see ban lines and parcel details, using a viewer like Firestorm with the basic functions built-in is essential. If you use the SL Viewer you can buy the Ban Line / Explorer Hud or something similar. The hud works in Firestorm too, giving much more detail than Firestorms built-in functions. It is a great tool that I use sometimes, even when I am driving very slowly. 

I always have my mini-map open at the top left of my viewer screen. I use it to see "red" banned parcels, and also to avoid other dots when I have Show Friends Only enabled in Firestorm. *chuckle* - But it does take some time to get all of the parcels in the sims permissions. If you are rezzing in the things around you, it probably won't show the banned parcels for a little while. It is a great function when you are standing around, or walking, but if you are moving at speed, it is delayed while new textures load in and new objects are rezzed in. 

The SL Road Systems were not designed properly (and they've degenerated over the years as well). I always thought there should be community standards for roadside and water way parcels. Or, at the very least, a wide space between those parcels and the road, or water way. LL will never change that. They could do it easily, but they won't.

We will just have to keep bashing our cars and planes into people's houses, or their ban lines. Oh well. Life in SL.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

22 hours ago, NanashiNyx said:

the whole point of roads is to provide access and let people move around though...

nearly everything you say isn't right... and this is simply very wrong... PUBLIC land is to move around, private owned and restricted isn't.

[Setsuki Takeda]

26 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

nearly everything you say isn't right... and this is simply very wrong... PUBLIC land is to move around, private owned and restricted isn't.

File that one under "Duh."

Yes, private land is for their use as they see fit, but if they want privacy they would save a bit on the purchase price moving back off the road (Security through obscurity, nobody is going to accidentally drive off the road into your place if you're not *on* the road, no?) where they're not causing issues by lining *public* areas with ban-lines and security orbs...

Or just stop being a massive cheapskate and pay for an *actual* private area (no camming in, no potential for trolling people on the parcel from public areas adjacent to it, and most importantly not being a damn nuisance by lining the common areas of the mainland with your paranoid reclusivity) on their own region.

 

Did the clarification help?

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, NanashiNyx said:

Did the clarification help?

problem is, it's no clarification but a egoistic rant and personal opinion;  i want to drive and i demand, you should obey/pay for me. 

[Setsuki Takeda]

20 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

problem is, it's no clarification but a egoistic rant and personal opinion;  i want to drive and i demand, you should obey/pay for me. 

Well, seems like we share an opinion of one another.

This is mostly a joke, since nothing can be done about them, and a place to rant good-naturedly (for the most part) about people who make it more difficult to enjoy the public areas of Second Life...

Then you drop in.

The "You're just wrong!" without reading for context like you want to stroke your own ego "proving" someone wrong?

Let's just agree we think the other is a terrible person and move on, no?

[Markham Weatherwax]

13 hours ago, KathrynLisbeth said:

Ability to show parcel boundaries on the Mini Map is already present in some TPV's.    (Of course that is not present in the Default viewer.)

So...  If can show the parcel boundaries?

Why is HIGHLIGHT A BANNED PARCEL not on the mini-map?   Ya know?  Color the parcel Bright red?   (and/or Bright Green if is using the payment info restriction)

Then..   would be a definitive signal reported to individual viewers that a parcel is restricted.  Thus bypassing the need to see banlines on the inworld view from a great distance, or play the 'Well now you found a Security Orb (sensor scan)' game.

 

 

This can relate to your Draw Distance. If it is too small, it won't pick up parcel data until that parcel comes within your draw distance range. If your draw distance is too big (and it is still loading in tons of textures and objects), that can delay the update of the mini-map data as well. Region performance plays a role too. A freshly restated Sim will update that data much quicker than one that has not been restarted in a while. Land changes (terraforming, permissions, etc.) affect it, and people rezzing and deleting objects, that all plays a role in how fast and how often the region data is managed. There are a lot of variables in that, but generally if your draw distance doesn't include a parcel within its range, it usually won't show it until you've gotten close enough to it. It depends greatly on your viewer, and connection to the Sim, too. 

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

5 hours ago, NanashiNyx said:

File that one under "Duh."

Yes, private land is for their use as they see fit, but if they want privacy they would save a bit on the purchase price moving back off the road (Security through obscurity, nobody is going to accidentally drive off the road into your place if you're not *on* the road, no?) where they're not causing issues by lining *public* areas with ban-lines and security orbs...

Or just stop being a massive cheapskate and pay for an *actual* private area (no camming in, no potential for trolling people on the parcel from public areas adjacent to it, and most importantly not being a damn nuisance by lining the common areas of the mainland with your paranoid reclusivity) on their own region.

 

Did the clarification help?

The continued insults toward those that use security options for whatever reason they choose to use them is not helping your case. Perhaps try to look at the issue from a viewpoint other than your own, rather than going with slams about people being "cheap", etc.

For that matter, maybe you can be the one to spend a pile of money and buy your own region, and control the roads as you please rather than drive around for free complaining about the folks who paid for their land and are enjoying it as they see fit. 

[Coffee Pancake]

15 hours ago, KathrynLisbeth said:

 

So the delay to show until the very last moment thing is a result of the Servers not passing that info until the very last moment?    

Which I assume is tied to the 'How they decided to fix showing banlines in the inworld view' thing?  

yes, and the viewer only ever knows about the one, nearest parcel with access restrictions.

we can't even cache the parcels you're blocked from entering as if that status ever changed, the viewer would know about till after you had entered the parcel.

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

5 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

The continued insults toward those that use security options for whatever reason they choose to use them is not helping your case. Perhaps try to look at the issue from a viewpoint other than your own, rather than going with slams about people being "cheap", etc.

For that matter, maybe you can be the one to spend a pile of money and buy your own region, and control the roads as you please rather than drive around for free complaining about the folks who paid for their land and are enjoying it as they see fit. 

Nope, disabled single mom living on military survivor's benefits, definitely do *not* have the money to spare for much in the way of tier. I have shared areas before, with people we could agree on basic rules to be courteous to guests and random passersby, but I can't afford more than a quarter region on my own and that's after turning data off on my phone to redirect that money to tier payments.

The point is there are real privacy options available in Second Life, but they cost more, if you *need* privacy (and can't set it to skyboxes that don't affect everyone around you) it's likely better to work toward having one of those.

If you are poor, as I am, it actually costs *less* to buy land with no road access. If you have it blocked off so people passing by can't enter (and at paranoid levels where random users are losing their vehicles just becasue you are near) moving away from public access areas is the same tier payment with a lower cost to purchase the land.

There are entire regions completely empty between Linden Roads, though that costs $175 per month for tier if you grab the entire place, but can all be subdivided via ticket to LL so you can buy pretty much any size and shape parcel you want without making a nuisance of yourself by lining public areas with it. You can also likely find someone who*wants* roadside for public access and they can ticket a purchase from LL then trade the parcel with you so they own roadside to develop (or more likely flip, but that's another thing) and you have a private parcel to lock down without harming the ability of people to explore.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 hour ago, NanashiNyx said:

Nope, disabled single mom living on military survivor's benefits, definitely do *not* have the money to spare for much in the way of tier.

So why do you leap to the conclusion that people who don't buy private regions are "massive cheapskates"? 🤔

Actually, the entitled way you continue to argue your case here makes me want to go put ban lines up on all of my road and waterside parcels. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Setsuki Takeda]

2 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

So why do you leap to the conclusion that people who don't buy private regions are "massive cheapskates"? 🤔

Actually, the entitled way you continue to argue your case here makes me want to go put ban lines up on all of my road and waterside parcels. 

/me smiles sweetly.

 

Bless your heart. You go do that, dear.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

As you wish. I hope the other drivers enjoy it!  

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

35 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

As you wish. I hope the other drivers enjoy it!  

More power to ya. After all, you do own it, no?

 

Though, with how much you ramble about access and inclusivity on the forums, I *hope* you're not actually that much of a blatant hypocrite 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

33 minutes ago, NanashiNyx said:

More power to ya. After all, you do own it, no?

 

Though, with how much you ramble about access and inclusivity on the forums, I *hope* you're not actually that much of a blatant hypocrite 

Oh, I'll just put one name on the ban lists.  

 

[Setsuki Takeda]

3 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Oh, I'll just put one name on the ban lists.  

 

See, much better, now we're finally on the same page XD

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I hope the other drivers enjoy it!  

 

orrrr !!! can make a orb just for Our Frenemy. Like:

timer()
{
   if (!~ListFindList(llGetAgentList(AGENT_LIST_REGION, []), Key_Of_Our_Frenemy))
      llAddToLandBanList(Key_Of_Our_Frenemy, 0);
   else
      llRemoveFromLandBanList(Key_Of_Our_Frenemy);
}

kehehehe 😸

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

orrrr !!! can make a orb just for Our Frenemy. Like:

timer()
{
   if (!~ListFindList(llGetAgentList(AGENT_LIST_REGION, []), Key_Of_Our_Frenemy))
      llAddToLandBanList(Key_Of_Our_Frenemy, 0);
   else
      llRemoveFromLandBanList(Key_Of_Our_Frenemy);
}

kehehehe 😸

 

I'm no scripter, but I think I understand that! 🤣