Is anyone seeing more land squatters in SL these days?

[Chelsea Malibu]

Must be a sign of the times or the fact that SL is free but lately, I have had more and more issues with people land squatting.

Actually rather bizarre when you think about it. They move in and rezz a skybox at 4k meters or such and build an elaborate house and clearly spend many hours decorating.  This last one, when I looked up their name for an AR it told me that person was not found.

Lately, it's been happening more and more.  On a couple of my sims, I just leave them open like a sand box since I have friends that use them with their alts.  I just go to the land panel and return things from time to time which is why I don't block building or have my return on requiring a group.

What flabbergast me is that someone would think they could do this unnoticed. Are they trying to take advantage of a situation, are they griefers or are they just plain stupid?

I had this happen once about 5 years ago when I was building my first sim but not since. 22 sims later it now seems to have become a common occurrence.  Is there a system that tells them when land is open for build? A scanner of sorts that tells them where to go to find open land or do they just stop and drop when they tour sims sort of like the real estate for sale scanner that is now banned?

The real question is, has anyone been seeing more of this lately?

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

They may be trying to rent them out.

[Chelsea Malibu]

That might make sence...a real estate scam.  The last one had all the objects in one persons name who was not in the DB and the person I saw standing in the house was afk and not the same person who owned all the objects.

Perhaps they show a house, collect the money and then poof?

Maybe I should change the name of this post to "Beware of Rental Scams" :smileywink:

 

[Knowl Paine]

A Resident recently asked if "using land you don't own is ok", that is about all I've heard. I'm sure it is happening.

I'm not aware of any system to find build enabled land. A device for the Mainland might be possible but estate land complicates matters.

I like to explore the map and I think Residents just start Region hopping until they find build enabled.

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

What flabbergast me is that someone would think they could do this unnoticed. Are they trying to take advantage of a situation, are they griefers or are they just plain stupid?

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On Mainland, I suspect it works more often than not.  There's a vast amount of build-enabled Mainland owned by very absent residents.  Some of it is generating tier for LL because the owner hasn't pulled the plug yet, and the rest is just stranded in some bookkeeping limbo, not officially abandoned by the owner but generating no tier either.  A "squatter" build on any such parcel may be around a long, long time.

Because there's just so much of this land on the grid now, it might make sense that there'd be more squatters -- if indeed there are more of them. (I don't know whether there are or not; I'd never try to manage land without auto-return).

Incidentally, it's easy for a script to tell if a parcel is set build-enabled, but I think the auto-return interval must be accessed from a viewer (or, equivalently, a bot).

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Sqatters have been around for as long as I can remember......before the grid was opened to free accounts in 2006.  There may be an increase (I haven't noticed it though) because there are so many free accounts these days there appears to be a sense of entitlement among many of the newer residents.  That happens when when people don't have a stake in something and many of the new people arriving in SL have absolutely nothing invested......no money, no time, no effort, no nothing.  They see SL as a place to get or to take.  And as long as LL requires nothing from those people they will continue coming with that attitude.  Fortunately, it's a small percentage.

[Peewee Musytari]

I had them quite often, usually noobs who didn`t understand that all of SL is owned by somebody. LIke it was this huge world created and owned by LL and you just had to find a place to put your freebie house that you found in your Library.

I don`t know if the change in height limits from 768 to 4096 encouraged it more, like they think you won`t see them wayyyy up there lol

[Pussycat Catnap]

An alternative theory is that a -LOT- of abandoned land is getting recycled now.

When it suddenly poofs on long term squatters - they go looking for a new place to squat. So you might just be seeing people who used to get away squatting in one place trying to find a new place to get away with it.

 

 

[Poenald Palen]

I think so much of Sl looks the same, newer people don't know about private sims and then there is just plain ol' "if they leave build on, then they must wish for common use!" and I sort of half way agree. Now, driving a vehicle based item up on land and leaving it, even though build is off, and then using a bot over and over...I sort of don't care to report them BUT..yeah, sort of a bit silly. The land has build turned off for a reason, right?

Squatters rights is a funny thing to see practiced in a virtual world. I would think people have better things to do, they can get an open sim or maybe even learn how to use one of dozens of game engines that import 3D objects and learn a bit to have fun making much better and permanant things! These game egines can be free, though I admit they are a little more complex. But, OpenSim can be run on your own computer and is all from SL with the open source Sl communities additions and is basically a adaption of SL's sim!! It looks, works and has almost all the same abilities! It is a free download. You will have to figure out how to let others log in, but the wiki for opensim will help you out.

 

These days you can find rentals for 1L each prim! So, around 1024 can be 250L with 250 prims.

But, this reminds me of when I was new. I basically would hop around the map via just clicking it. I dropped into peoples houses when they where partying, flew around trying to find these people and couldn't figure out where they where hiding (I didn't know how to overcome the flight limit) and thought it was all public areas and people somehow just hung out there or they got rights to use it. I encountered privatly owned land and knew it, they had barriers up! So, it made sense. Private land ='s barriers. So, everywhere else is free and open to hanging out in! Private convo's in IM and on barrier protected land, all others are willing to meet people! My feelings where confirmed when I dropped into a party and would have people just say join in, they didn't mind and it was not exactly private.

A little later, once I learned sandboxes where better and I had a store and understood all this a bit more I dropped into a place that used to be a hangout with a small track. The land was sold and the home there had no door for me to get out of. I tried camming around to find a place to sit, I really did NOT want to be there and just wanted to look to see if part of the land had a TP, maybe not all of it had been sold? The person was upset and started asking if I would leave. They where knew and didn't know how to eject? I mean PLEASE eject me, I thought. I continued to look for something outside to sit on and got out. It turned out the person was sort of role playing, judging from the talk they where having with each other. So I was a disturbing lost intruder that was confused lol. Well, that part was not so much a role play, I thought I had the wrong place by accident, wrong LM etc.

So, sort of dont' notice much as I sort of don't watch people to close or know who owns what around me. BUT, I do know there is a LOT of abandoned land and people where selling stuff on that. You just make avehicle and drive it up on the abandoned land. Some of it has no auto return...well, it didn't used to. Now they are changing things and I bet this also gets changed. It looks like a protest, but I see cars (which are vehicles) parked on abandoned road sides as I test drive. I don't AR, but there is a policy about selling on Linden Land! And abandoned land is owned by the Governer, so counts? Not sure. I don't bother either way. I figure it si a protest, but who knows...maybe an earner? I think people buy clothes more than cars, and a clothes store can be made into a vehicle, as can anything. You drive it up, hop out and leave while it sits there. I imagine if people go ttogether they could AR until they are sick and then they might make a bot to check teh govs land and kick stuff off it and the bot could even auto generate a AR file to stash away...btu why bother?  They could do it already, but wont. We see more bot power put into some SL merchants greeting and modelling systems than they put into this? LOL. Millions in the back, but the little dress maker with a some role play town stores has more bot power than the gov hs to handle squatters? BTW, I don't know of any 'dress makers' that do this, but do remember getting the bots greeting me at a few locations. I remember one would walk you to a location and was explaining the product and service they offer you and it walked back to wait for another to serve! Just sort of joking, but maybe not so much.

[Darren Oates]

You will see more squatters on your land in a year or two as this new abbandoned land system kicks in as auto return seems to be set to 5mins or so unlike the old abboandoned setting of zero so yes instead of using these plots they will find a space that has no auto return set its common sence to utaiize space in secondlife to ones advantage but i agree its not ideal having squatters not paying you a bean but its rather harmless setting your land settings correctly will sort them out group only rez ect but they like to build on another parcel and drag to the land with auto return not set.

  Meanwhile a few years ago on my reallife street we had a bunch of day squatters move in and used peoples gardens while they where at work sunbathing on lawns and so on harmless better than burglers lol.

[Melita Magic]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

The real question is, has anyone been seeing more of this lately?

 

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Well, yes and no. I've always seen a fair amount of it. But it does seem more sloppy and prodigious lately.

You are lucky that they at least put their skybox at 4000 meters. The ones around one parcel I own? They rez skyboxes at 50 meters to 100 meters high. They rez houses on top of someone else's house. They rez cars, helicopters, all sorts of junk.

Other ones put furniture and decor in and around their house. Then there are some who sell illegal or against land rating items in their 'shop' which is squatting on someone else's land.

I don't blame them in the end as much as I blame the neglectful land owners who leave build on and auto return off and let this happen to the neighborhood.

[Melita Magic]

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Darren Oates wrote:

You will see more squatters on your land in a year or two as this new abbandoned land system kicks in as auto return seems to be set to 5mins or so unlike the old abboandoned setting of zero 

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Details?

All of the abandoned land I have seen has auto return set to zero.

Auction land has auto return set to five minutes.

[Melita Magic]

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Darren Oates wrote:

  Meanwhile a few years ago on my reallife street we had a bunch of day squatters move in and used peoples gardens while they where at work sunbathing on lawns and so on harmless better than burglers lol.

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Sorry for so many posts in a row. If I try to copy and paste a quote, my entire post ends up in italics.

I wonder if the cultural and legal differences in squatting in the various real life nations have anything to do with the lenient outlook some have on squatters in Second Life? 

In America squatting is quite illegal, and prosecuted. It's seen as raising crime, drug traffic, and more in any neighborhood it happens in. As well as damaging property values and the property it occurs on.

In the UK, as I understand it (correct if I am mistaken), squatting is not only legal but a real cultural phenom, and seen as harmless, or even as a human right.

 

[Liisa Runo]

Yes.

More Sqatters.

More copybotters.

More griefers.

More scammers.

.... And LL respond lot slower. Or totally ignore AR's and tickets.

[Hugsy Penguin]

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Melita Magic wrote:

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Darren Oates wrote:

You will see more squatters on your land in a year or two as this new abbandoned land system kicks in as auto return seems to be set to 5mins or so unlike the old abboandoned setting of zero 

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Details?

All of the abandoned land I have seen has auto return set to zero.

Auction land has auto return set to five minutes.

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Announcing an Easier Way to Purchase Abandoned Mainland Property

Prior to this (~April 21), abandoned land had auto-return automatically set to zero.  After this, when you abandon land Governor Linden takes ownership, auto-return is set to 0, and it's set for sale back to you for L$1 per m².  After 24 hours, all prims on the land are returned to you, the land is set for sale to anyone, and auto-return is set to 5 minutes.

Are you seeing lots of land that was abandoned after this policy but still has 0 auto-return?  If so, that would be a bug in the system.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Melita Magic wrote:

Sorry for so many posts in a row. If I try to copy and paste a quote, my entire post ends up in italics.

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Switch to the HTML tab and copy the code for the post there, then paste it all together while in the HTML tab. If you don't understand HTML, just switch back to the Rich Text tab once its all pasted into one place and edit there.

 

[Melita Magic]

I'll give it a try next time I'm fully awake. Thanks Pussycat.  

[Melita Magic]

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Hugsy Penguin wrote:

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Announcing an Easier Way to Purchase Abandoned Mainland Property

Prior to this (~April 21), abandoned land had auto-return automatically set to zero.  After this, when you abandon land Governor Linden takes ownership, auto-return is set to 0, and it's set for sale back to you for L$1 per m².  After 24 hours, all prims on the land are returned to you, the land is set for sale to anyone, and auto-return is set to 5 minutes.

Are you seeing lots of land that was abandoned after this policy but still has 0 auto-return?  If so, that would be a bug in the system.

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Yes, I am. I have yet to see any abandoned land that is for sale in fact, or with anything but 0 in the auto return. Whether it was abandoned before or after the policy, I don't  know. But I think at least one was after. 

I've read the article in the past but I admit I don't really pay attention to abandon dates. I heard those can be faked?

[Hugsy Penguin]

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Melita Magic wrote:

Yes, I am. I have yet to see any abandoned land that is for sale in fact, or with anything but 0 in the auto return. Whether it was abandoned before or after the policy, I don't  know. But I think at least one was after. 

I've read the article in the past but I admit I don't really pay attention to abandon dates. I heard those can be faked?

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I bet the 0 auto-return land you're seeing was abandoned before this policy.  There's lots of that still around.

Try calling up the map, add the Land Sale layer, and click around looking for price tags that say "Abandoned Land - For Sale" with the price and size the same number. I just did this at least a couple of dozen times.  One of two things happened.  Either the land had already been purchased or the land was owned by Governor Linden, the group was Maintenance, and the auto-return was 5 minutes.  It's easier to find if you focus on land that looks about 2048m² or less and doesn't border any roads or water.

Regarding faked dates, it might be fake in the name/description for pre-policy abandoned land, however, I don't think it's possible to fake the "Claimed:" date in the About Land dialog.