SL Performance

[Amelie Mersereau]

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Hard pass.

We've now seen how that discussion would go, and it's an idle exercise in "bad performance is bad" whining and exchange of misinformation. "The Cloud was designed for storage, not for operations." 

Lordy.

If this thread was intended to be more of that, well, count me out there, too.

Thank you for your constructive input, Qie, and for your suggestions as to how things may potentially be alleviated ;; ). Your point,  "Hey look, that's simply the way it is, the rest of us either live with it, don't notice it and/or [therefore] don't care and neither should you. There's nothing that can be done about it; so get over it and get used to it",  is completely understood.

I did not begin this thread to whine, but simply to ask if anyone had similar observations. The point of my original post, which was absent animosity, was simply to engender discussion toward finding solutions.

But I see the handwriting on the wall. I will end my inquiry.

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Amelie Mersereau said:

simply to ask if anyone had similar observations

 

8 minutes ago, Amelie Mersereau said:

which was absent animosity

Reread your initial post.  It was nothing but animosity IMO and the only thing asked was..."When is LL going to address, let alone rectify, the intensely & woefully degraded performance of SL since its migration to the cloud?".  

Sorry you didn't get the answer you were hoping for.

[Drayke Newall]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

If I'm understanding you correctly, using the cloud as a distributed storage facility can mean that "with a little more tinkering", it can be used globally as a tiered cache so that the assets in highest demand in one part of the world -- Europe, say, or South America -- are available "nearby".  So, SL residents "will be able to get our food made local to the people eating it." SL residents in places that are far from LL's home base in California could see shorter ping times and faster load times than they do now.  As you say, though, if LL decides to do that, it will increase their costs.  It also might make SL more attractive to distant users, of course, and increase LL's income and stability. 

That is correct and was one of the main reason touted as to why they wanted to move to the cloud and why the cloud would be better. Oz stated in a Lab Gab that once things have settled with the one AWS datacentre the plan was to put it in AWS Datacentres around the world.

Whether this is still the case I dont know but, I did hear a rumour that it was to expensive to do so they wont be doing it. I could be wrong though and it may still be on the cards.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

If I'm understanding you correctly, using the cloud as a distributed storage facility can mean that "with a little more tinkering", it can be used globally as a tiered cache so that the assets in highest demand in one part of the world -- Europe, say, or South America -- are available "nearby".  So, SL residents "will be able to get our food made local to the people eating it." SL residents in places that are far from LL's home base in California could see shorter ping times and faster load times than they do now.  As you say, though, if LL decides to do that, it will increase their costs.  It also might make SL more attractive to distant users, of course, and increase LL's income and stability. 

It's come up a few times and AFAIK is on the cards for region owners - It doesn't translate well to the main grid where everyone is from everywhere.

But if you bought a private region, having it hosted by a more local AWS facility would be a nice boost, .. assuming all your visitors are similarly local.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Amelie Mersereau said:

Thank you for your constructive input, Qie, and for your suggestions as to how things may potentially be alleviated ;; ). Your point,  "Hey look, that's simply the way it is, the rest of us either live with it, don't notice it and/or [therefore] don't care and neither should you. There's nothing that can be done about it; so get over it and get used to it",  is completely understood.

Not the point at all, and if you look around the forums a bit you'll see that this thread attracted many folks who regularly work very hard both to help people with performance problems they can rectify themselves and to call specific performance problems to the Lab's attention, often with real results in both endeavors.

What it takes to make such progress, however, is not to "ask if anyone had similar observations" unless those observations are specific enough to be tested and analyzed. Otherwise, like it or not, it ends up another "bad lag is bad" whine-fest.

Maybe it's unrealistic to expect regular users to provide enough detail to do anything useful about their problems, but without it, nothing will ever improve.

[Amelie Mersereau]

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

"... Maybe it's unrealistic to expect regular users to provide enough detail to do anything useful about their problems, but without it, nothing will ever improve."

Thank you, Qie,

From the most recent of your condescending posts:  "... Maybe it's unrealistic to expect regular users to provide enough detail to do anything useful about their problems..."

Perhaps you did not see part of my previous post wherein I attempted to provide such information:

• "... textures & many HUDs take comparatively forever to [fully] load, yes, the map takes forever to load (or it never even finishes loading until long after its specific utility [vehicle race turns, etc.] has ended or expired), yes, even the [grass] terrain sometimes takes forever to load or to finish loading clearly, yes, more and more (not all) avatars present themselves as orange clouds for longer periods of time of late (even if only for a few seconds longer- but consistently longer nonetheless)..."

Now, if even this kind of information is insufficient, or if you are alluding to needing information pertaining to packet losses and other such technical information & the like, then yes, that is over my head.

That not a single participant in this forum discussion, not one, none, identified with the nature of my observations, even though I provided a small chat-snippet demonstrating that 60% of inworld residents (admittedly, from a small sampling) indeed identify with my observations, painfully told me that I was barking up the wrong tree, and that I was in the wrong clubhouse, a clubhouse that consists of residents who are perhaps less regularly present inworld than they are present herein, and who are therefore less familiar with the current experiences being widely discussed (the Firestorm group is not a small, isolated group by any means). I appreciate having learned the nature of this forum via its consistent, well-defined and closely-knit group of regular participants though.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Rowan Amore]

On 7/30/2021 at 1:34 AM, Amelie Mersereau said:

Given my personal experience in discussions of this matter, wherein I was met with almost universal agreement, I was a tiny bit dismayed when almost all of the initial responses to my post here, boiled down & condensed to fit in a thimble, were essentially those of incredulity. In fact, without regard to prim-management-related statements, I thought that I may have accidentally stumbled upon the LL cheerleading squad group discussion lol ;;):    'Everything is totally wonderful with, perhaps, the slight exception of a tiny bit of prim-utilization-optimization-related lag in Bellisseria.'   That's pretty much why I ended my participation in the thread that I started.

The only one I see being condescending and patronizing is you.  

By the way, I don't live in nor visit Belli.  I live on mainland.  I frequent busy clubs.  I go to busy shopping events.  I do not have the issues you've mentioned.  I'm even running wireless most of the time.  

Sorry no one rallied around your flag.

[Amelie Mersereau]

25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The only one I see being condescending and patronizing is you.  

By the way, I don't live in nor visit Belli.  I live on mainland.  I frequent busy clubs.  I go to busy shopping events.  I do not have the issues you've mentioned.  I'm even running wireless most of the time.  

Sorry no one rallied around your flag.

I too am rarely in Belli. As one of my previous posts clearly indicated, this is not about Belli. Again, read the Firestorm group chat snippet that I posted; I am not the only one experiencing SL's changed performance. Yes, no one here in this smaller and more-contained forum environment "rallied around" my flag, but 60% of actual inworld residents, on the other hand, did.

Sorry you did not accept the invitation to discuss this inworld with a multitude of residents, but then again, that would upset the forum narrative, wouldn't it? Yes indeed, there have been no performance issues since the migration to the cloud process; anyone who thinks otherwise (see group chat) is simply imagining it.

Almost eight thousand posts? See my previous post alluding thereto.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Rowan Amore]

On 7/30/2021 at 1:34 AM, Amelie Mersereau said:

And for those of you whom have yet to experience any of the things that I described, all I can say is, um, you need to get out [of Bellisseria] & about and around the grid a bit more lol ;;).

I was addressing this condescending remark.  I never go to Belli but I do live on a busy mainland region.  Still don't experience any of your issues.  I'm "out and about" on my WiFi connection all the time.  No problems.

[Amelie Mersereau]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was addressing this condescending remark.  I never go to Belli but I do live on a busy mainland region.  Still don't experience any of your issues.  I'm "out and about" on my WiFi connection all the time.  No problems.

Good for you! Now how about the rest of us... you know, the other 60%?

Edited July 31, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Rolig Loon]

4 minutes ago, Amelie Mersereau said:

Again, read the Firestorm group chat snippet that I posted; I am not the only one experiencing SL's changed performance. Yes, no one here in this contained environment "rallied around" my flag, but 60% of actual inworld residents, on the other hand, did.

This just shows you not to trust statistics based on small, non-random samples.  You've heard a small sample of responses in that forum and another small sample here.  Neither can be trusted.  So far, all you have is anecdotal evidence.  People go the the FS group because they are having troubles, so you are likely to hear from a lot of people who say they have performance issues.  You've heard here from a number of people who spend a lot of time in world, many of whom who have spent years fielding questions in the Answers area.  We're reporting no increase in performance issues -- our own or most of the people we talk with here.  So, you've heard conflicting reports and can't draw any valid conclusions.  And you certainly can't make the leap to identify a cause for a problem that you can't verify.

[Amelie Mersereau]

48 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

This just shows you not to trust statistics based on small, non-random samples.  You've heard a small sample of responses in that forum and another small sample here.  Neither can be trusted.  So far, all you have is anecdotal evidence.  People go the the FS group because they are having troubles, so you are likely to hear from a lot of people who say they have performance issues.  You've heard here from a number of people who spend a lot of time in world, many of whom who have spent years fielding questions in the Answers area.  We're reporting no increase in performance issues -- our own or most of the people we talk with here.  So, you've heard conflicting reports and can't draw any valid conclusions.  And you certainly can't make the leap to identify a cause for a problem that you can't verify.

Great, then pick up the glove, Rolig, join me inworld to discuss this amongst a broader array of participants. And yes, I agree with you regarding the potential for error when involving a relatively small sampling of respondents, you are utterly correct. So again, jump in (with a shared group chat conversation), the water's fine!!

And no one [else] initiated this discussion in FS group chat; I did. And with regard to other "... people who spend a lot of time in world, many of whom who have spent years...", what do I know, I have only been here almost fifteen years ;;).

All I see is lots and lots and lots and lots of folks reacting as if I am rocking the boat or upsetting the apple cart, but I can't say that I see tons and tons of folks agreeing to participate in an inworld group discussion, as I have otherwise invited several times now, to see what a much larger sampling of residents has to say. Hmm, is it inertia or perhaps something else that is holding back the enthusiasm?

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Rowan Amore]

Discussing it with others to what end?  Go to one of the user group meetings where there are Lindens.  No one here or in any group can do anything but p*ss and moan about it.  

Edited July 31, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Amelie Mersereau]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Discussing it with others to what end?  Go to one of the user group meetings where there are Lindens.  No one here or in any group can do anything but p*ss and moan about it.  

Ok, Rowan, indeed... 'why bother' confirming whether or not this is indeed a widespread experience or not, right? All people are going to do is complain, right? Why bring the experience of a potentially widespread set of anomalies into the light of day!

But at least we are now flushing out the reason 'why bother' and why no one will join me in inworld group chat discussions:   "... No one here or in any group can do anything..."

But yes, I get it, "it is what it is....."

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Amelie Mersereau said:

 

  "... No one here or in any group can do anything..."

Am I wrong?  As with any issue you might perceive as being widespread, take it up with someone who can actually help.  Otherwise, yes, it is just a b*tch session.  You came here to do that, no one in our thimble-full of responses had your issues, you got upset.   

 

[Rolig Loon]

14 minutes ago, Amelie Mersereau said:

Great, then pick up the glove, Rolig, join me inworld to discuss this amongst a broader array of participants. And yes, I agree with you regarding the potential for error when involving a relatively small sampling of respondents, you are utterly correct. So again, jump in (with a shared group chat conversation), the water's fine!!

And no one [else] initiated this discussion in FS group chat; I did. And with regard to other "... people who spend a lot of time in world, many of whom who have spent years...", what do I know, I have only been here almost fifteen years ;;).

All I see is lots and lots and lots and lots of folks reacting as if I am rocking the boat or upsetting the apple cart, but I can't say that I see tons and tons of folks saying agreeing to participating in an inworld group discussion, as I have otherwise invited several times now, to see what a much larger sampling of residents has to say. Hmm, is it inertia or perhaps something else that is holding back the enthusiasm?

You came here and asked whether anyone had noticed an increase in performance problems.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I took you at your word and gave you my own observation -- no, I haven't noticed anything.  That's been my only participation in this thread. Personally, I'm not interested enough to spend much of my in-world time joining a larger discussion, but I think it's fine if you are others do.  The big thing holding back my enthusiasm is a larger pile of things that do demand my attention. There aren't enough hours in the day.  

[Amelie Mersereau]

26 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Am I wrong?  As with any issue you might perceive as being widespread, take it up with someone who can actually help.  Otherwise, yes, it is just a b*tch session.  You came here to do that, no one in our thimble-full of responses had your issues, you got upset.   

 

No, I got skeptical ; ). 100% not? What a disparity versus inworld reactions!

OoooKkkk, I'll leave the cheerleading to all the folks here, folks who are reluctant to see if this is indeed a problem experienced & shared by many or not ;;)

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Rowan Amore]

Trust me.  If people have issues with something here they are not shy about discussing it.  There is not some cabal whose sole purpose is to discount your experience.  We believe you.  The people.who have responded did so in good faith.  They don't share your experience.  That you feel they were being condescending and patronizing?  I don't understand that.  They weren't.  

[Solar Legion]

Oh for ....

Point blank for you: No survey of any sort you or any other user creates will ever be indicative of a single thing concerning the performance issues you insist are occurring. The only way to have even a shred of legitimacy in your data would be to pol the entire user base and receive a response from each and every single user.

You're not going to get one.

You have issues, some other users may or may not also have issues. For some, these issues may be transient whereas for others, they're not. The root causes can and will vary. The only reason so many jump to the conclusion of it being related to the full cloud migration is incredibly simple: It is the easiest, most visible scapegoat.

There have always been network and other performance issues - some of which have nothing whatsoever to do with action/inaction on the part of Linden Lab.

Such is Life.

[Amelie Mersereau]

6 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

"... Such is Life."

Obviously and indeed.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Amelie Mersereau]

11 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Trust me.  If people have issues with something here they are not shy about discussing it.  There is not some cabal whose sole purpose is to discount your experience.  We believe you.  The people.who have responded did so in good faith.  They don't share your experience.  That you feel they were being condescending and patronizing?  I don't understand that.  They weren't.  

From Qie's response:   "... Maybe it's unrealistic to expect regular users to provide enough detail to do anything useful..."

If that is not condescending & patronizing (especially after I used a paragraph to describe the issues I was experiencing), then, um sure, ok........ 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Amelie Mersereau]

@ Solar Legion: :pppppppppppppppppp lol

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, the childish antics now come out.

Use a different playbook.

[Amelie Mersereau]

25 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

"... There have always been network and other performance issues - some of which have nothing whatsoever to do with action/inaction on the part of Linden Lab.

Such is Life.

The question is not whether or not there have always been performance issues. The question, Solar, is whether or not the performance issues are increasing in severity. I regret that you are unable to understand the discussion.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau

[Amelie Mersereau]

9 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Ah yes, the childish antics now come out.

Use a different playbook.

You can dish it out with your silly laughter icons & emojis, but you sure can't take the heat in return, eh Solar?

The irony (given your name) is wonderful... by all means, continue with your "childish antics"! :pp!

Edited August 1, 2021 by Amelie Mersereau