Do you think you can switch to a sustainable diet?

[Arielle Popstar]

I have to admit I find it cute when so many complain there are too many people on the planet for sustainability, they are  often the same ones complaining when a vaccine for the pandemic is not coming fast enough. What I guess they really mean is that there is too many OTHER people on the planet. 

[Ceka Cianci]

44 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I have to admit I find it cute when so many complain there are too many people on the planet for sustainability, they are  often the same ones complaining when a vaccine for the pandemic is not coming fast enough. What I guess they really mean is that there is too many OTHER people on the planet. 

I'm gonna need to see the statistics that correlate the two..

hehehehe

I'm kidding

[Luna Bliss]

It's those dots.

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

lol there's a reason my brother renamed Whole Foods to 'Whole Paycheck'.   

I've found that if I forgo a lot of meat though, using nuts and yogurt to supply the missing protein, I can eat a lot of the organic veggies from there and get those nutrients without adding too much cost.

Oh, yeah, Whole Foods Market has prices for doctors to shop in.  As a matter of fact, I know a doctor's wife who shops there, that's how crazy that place is.  I don't know what the heck they are doing there?

Trader Joe's I just glanced over the WIKI and it says Trader Joe's prices are less than store bought brands because they do without the middle man.  That is the same our local farmers are doing, selling with no middle man (no store building/electricity, etc to afford) and selling right on their soil with carts set up outdoors, so it's cheaper.

Whole Foods, forget it.  It's prices are for doctors it's so crazy. 

I was glad you reminded me of Trader Joe's, as when I visit my daughter in San Francisco we get our groceries there and I love that place. For the longest time we didn't have one where I live though, but I checked and they don't do delivery!        I have to be careful of Covid with my immune condition, so will have to save shopping there for when this virus crisis is over.

We have a line of organic stuff at a couple traditional groceries here, but Whole Foods stuff is usually cheaper.

[Luna Bliss]

58 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I have to admit I find it cute when so many complain there are too many people on the planet for sustainability, they are  often the same ones complaining when a vaccine for the pandemic is not coming fast enough. What I guess they really mean is that there is too many OTHER people on the planet. 

You know, we can lament about the problems with humankind, but that doesn't mean we think we're personally, individually, outside of the problem.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

The wounded surgeon plies the steel
That questions the distempered part;
Beneath the bleeding hands we feel
The sharp compassion of the healer’s art
Resolving the enigma of the fever chart.
Our only health is the disease
If we obey the dying nurse
Whose constant care is not to please
But remind of our, and Adam’s curse,
And that, to be restored, our sickness must grow worse.

— TS Eliot, East Coker

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I have to admit I find it cute when so many complain there are too many people on the planet for sustainability, they are  often the same ones complaining when a vaccine for the pandemic is not coming fast enough. What I guess they really mean is that there is too many OTHER people on the planet. 

My complaint is they came out with a vaccine a bit too fast for my comfort. And there's still too damn many humans on the planet. Sustainable or not.

[Bree Giffen]

I was reading up a little bit on the topic and a sustainable diet actually refers to how much fossil fuel is used by different types of food. Fossil fuel is a limited resource and is unsustainable.

Normal crops use a lot of chemicals such as pesticides, herbicides and fertilizer. These chemicals take a lot of energy, fossil fuel, to produce. Organic crops try to use as little chemicals as possible.

Food brought in from other parts of the country or world have to be transported to your grocery. These are transported by trucks, trains and ships which all burn fossil fuel. They also have to be refrigerated. Local foods do not require long transportation.

Meat burns more fossil fuel than fruits, grains and vegetables because we have to produce more planted crops to feed animals compared to eating planted crops directly. Planted crops use fossil fuel through farm equipment.

Processed foods require machinery and chemicals which use up more fossil fuel energy than unprocessed food.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Bree Giffen
fossil fuels

[FairreLilette]

22 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

The thing that always got me about organic is...you're using the same rain as the inorganic farmer down the road.  All the chemicals and such that populate in the clouds rain right down on your 'organic' garden.  It almost defeats the purpose, IMO.  Unless you grow everything in a greenhouse and personally detox all the water you use,  your produce is still getting chemicals.

I was thinking about what you said here and this could be the reason why a lot of products labeled as organic say 'no added' chemicals or preservatives.   We only have so much control though.  How to clean the water so to speak, I have no idea.   It's interesting also that many foods labeled 'no added preservatives' aren't entirely truthful either as salt is a preservative and many organic products contain some salt.  I have two sisters who are absolute salt junkies.  I love salt too but when I tried Lays Potato Chips with Sea Salt I dream about those things.  Those Lays chips with sea salt are sooooooooo delicious, the best I've ever had.  After I am vaccinated, I plan to go to the store to buy Lays Potato Chips with Sea Salt (true story here lol.)  I really am.  

[Arielle Popstar]

18 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I have to admit I find it cute when so many complain there are too many people on the planet for sustainability, they are  often the same ones complaining when a vaccine for the pandemic is not coming fast enough. What I guess they really mean is that there is too many OTHER people on the planet. 

18 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm gonna need to see the statistics that correlate the two..

hehehehe

I'm kidding

 

Because Luna didn't deny it! That is good enough evidence for any good conspiracy theorist!

Joking aside though whenever I have seen threads like this in other Forums I am reminded of the huge amount of food waste that happens every single day at every level from individual families, restaurants, cafeterias, commercial food prep companies and farmers. The FDA estimates that in the USA alone, 40% of all food winds up in municipal dumps. That will sustain not only the existing population but quite a few more.

Another thing that comes to mind is the huge amount of land I have driven through in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick etc just sitting there with nothing on it but weeds that could either be farmed or failing that, used for feeding livestock. 

The way I see it is that the problem is not that the Earth could not support 10 billion people but that we as yet lack effective methods for utilizing either the land available or making sure all food that is available is distributed efficiently to where it is needed instead of landing in the dumps.

[Silent Mistwalker]

17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Because Luna didn't deny it! That is good enough evidence for any good conspiracy theorist!

Joking aside though whenever I have seen threads like this in other Forums I am reminded of the huge amount of food waste that happens every single day at every level from individual families, restaurants, cafeterias, commercial food prep companies and farmers. The FDA estimates that in the USA alone, 40% of all food winds up in municipal dumps. That will sustain not only the existing population but quite a few more.

Another thing that comes to mind is the huge amount of land I have driven through in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick etc just sitting there with nothing on it but weeds that could either be farmed or failing that, used for feeding livestock. 

The way I see it is that the problem is not that the Earth could not support 10 billion people but that we as yet lack effective methods for utilizing either the land available or making sure all food that is available is distributed efficiently to where it is needed instead of landing in the dumps.

You should see how much food a single WalMart tosses in a days time. Most of it gets tossed because people are too damned lazy to put frozen and refrigerated items back in the freezers and fridges!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/marketplace-walmart-food-waste-1.3814719

The one where I live, I worked at as a cashier. On daily basis, enough food was thrown out to feed a family of 4 for weeks, if not months. It was one of the most appalling sights I have ever seen. I'm not shy about letting people in the store around me know about it either.

They hide it all indoors until it is hauled away now so no one can see just how much is wasted.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Ceka Cianci]

6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Because Luna didn't deny it! That is good enough evidence for any good conspiracy theorist!

Joking aside though whenever I have seen threads like this in other Forums I am reminded of the huge amount of food waste that happens every single day at every level from individual families, restaurants, cafeterias, commercial food prep companies and farmers. The FDA estimates that in the USA alone, 40% of all food winds up in municipal dumps. That will sustain not only the existing population but quite a few more.

Another thing that comes to mind is the huge amount of land I have driven through in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick etc just sitting there with nothing on it but weeds that could either be farmed or failing that, used for feeding livestock. 

The way I see it is that the problem is not that the Earth could not support 10 billion people but that we as yet lack effective methods for utilizing either the land available or making sure all food that is available is distributed efficiently to where it is needed instead of landing in the dumps.

The thing about land is, there are plenty of reasons not to farm certain pieces of land..Someone could own the land, it could be indigenous land, it could be land that was farmed but is being let sit to revitalize, that or it could be being grazed by certain wild life or there could be something growing there that is used.. Also it may not be a good section worth farming.. It's hard to tell by not seeing it..

Is there a lot of farming in that area?

 

As far as waste on a farm, I can't answer for every farmer, especially the big farmers, but what may seem like waste to others gets used elsewhere..

like on our farm.. you won't find a scratch of food in our garbage.. what doesn't get eaten off our plates or that won't be left overs goes to the dogs and cats outside..

If a horse or any cattle dies from an accident or attack we have a spot those are taken and they are given to the wild life.. Then the bones will be used for study by local equine dentists and vets or students.. News travels fast if we have a horse or cow go down and we'll get a call to get permission to go and take what bones they want..

Any crops that may for some reason or another not be good enough for feed or seed gets grounded up put in the spreader and goes back into the soil..

We try to put some back in the ground at the end of every season and keep the best for our livestock..

Then there is rotation of crops every two or three years and then letting fields sit so they don't get over farmed and weak..

We farm enough to feed our livestock and we'll put in some rows for us..We have spots that are being farmed and we have spots that we will leave sitting for when it's time to switch over.. then there is the land that we don't farm which would get washed out or is just not good farm land..

Same goes for grazing lands.. You have to rotate livestock..When you have cows and horses at the same time, you have to keep them separated because of the clashing that goes on there..

I'm not trying to defend all the waste going on because I'm sure there is a lot of it.. But you know that 40% isn't used for consumption.. That doesn't mean it all ends up in a land fill..

If you look on the EPA's site you see 24.14% was put into landfills in 2018 while the rest was used for other things like animal feeds and compost and so on.. it's still the the largest percentage of what goes into landfills.. but if you're going to put something in a land fill, there is nothing better than something biodegradable that will break down fast..

I'm sure not defending land fills or the waste that goes on.. but it's hard to agree that it is all going into land fills and not being used elsewhere as other resources.. There is just so much more use for that than just tossing it away, especially as fast as landfills build..

I just know on our farm we try and find a use for everything as much as we can, because it just makes good sense all around to do so.. what some may see as trash others see as a treasure..

In my eyes, The FDA just sounds like they were shooting from the hip  when they said that..

 

 

 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

11 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The thing about land is, there are plenty of reasons not to farm certain pieces of land..Someone could own the land, it could be indigenous land, it could be land that was farmed but is being let sit to revitalize, that or it could be being grazed by certain wild life or there could be something growing there that is used.. Also it may not be a good section worth farming.. It's hard to tell by not seeing it..

Is there a lot of farming in that area?

 

As far as waste on a farm, I can't answer for every farmer, especially the big farmers, but what may seem like waste to others gets used elsewhere..

like on our farm.. you won't find a scratch of food in our garbage.. what doesn't get eaten off our plates or that won't be left overs goes to the dogs and cats outside..

If a horse or any cattle dies from an accident or attack we have a spot those are taken and they are given to the wild life.. Then the bones will be used for study by local equine dentists and vets or students.. News travels fast if we have a horse or cow go down and we'll get a call to get permission to go and take what bones they want..

Any crops that may for some reason or another not be good enough for feed or seed gets grounded up put in the spreader and goes back into the soil..

We try to put some back in the ground at the end of every season and keep the best for our livestock..

Then there is rotation of crops every two or three years and then letting fields sit so they don't get over farmed and weak..

We farm enough to feed our livestock and we'll put in some rows for us..We have spots that are being farmed and we have spots that we will leave sitting for when it's time to switch over.. then there is the land that we don't farm which would get washed out or is just not good farm land..

Same goes for grazing lands.. You have to rotate livestock..When you have cows and horses at the same time, you have to keep them separated because of the clashing that goes on there..

I'm not trying to defend all the waste going on because I'm sure there is a lot of it.. But you know that 40% isn't used for consumption.. That doesn't mean it all ends up in a land fill..

If you look on the EPA's site you see 24.14% was put into landfills in 2018 while the rest was used for other things like animal feeds and compost and so on.. it's still the the largest percentage of what goes into landfills.. but if you're going to put something in a land fill, there is nothing better than something biodegradable that will break down fast..

I'm sure not defending land fills or the waste that goes on.. but it's hard to agree that it is all going into land fills and not being used elsewhere as other resources.. There is just so much more use for that than just tossing it away, especially as fast as landfills build..

I just know on our farm we try and find a use for everything as much as we can, because it just makes good sense all around to do so.. what some may see as trash others see as a treasure..

In my eyes, The FDA just sounds like they were shooting from the hip  when they said that..

I do understand some of your reasonings here while at the same time being aware from friends who dairy farm and also farm for vegetable markets, that their quota's play a large part in their need to dump excesses above those levels. That seems to be especially relevant in the current climate with so many restaurants, hotels, schools, and other institutional users closed because of the lockdowns resulting in something like 50% less demand.

"As the coronavirus pandemic continues to wage a silent war across the country, American farmers are being forced to pour out milk, crush eggs, toss fresh fruits and vegetables, euthanize livestock and plow under perfectly robust crops

Meanwhile, financially beleaguered Americans are lining up at food banks in unprecedented numbers, humanitarian leaders fear a global starvation pandemic is burgeoning, and grocery store shelves are sparsely filled." https://www.foxnews.com/us/farmers-dump-food-grocery-stores-shortage-coronavirus

As @Silent Mistwalkeralready pointed out, these institutions and restaurants are some of the biggest dumpers of foods as I have seen myself years ago when leftover prepared foods were dumped in open dumpsters until they started using compactors. I also spent many years in the catering industry and know first hand how much foodstuffs would have to get tossed after weddings, banquets, and other events when food banks etc started having to refuse the excess because of potential liabilities from spoiled goods.

So many factors come into play but bottom line is that I think we have plenty of capacity already to feed everyone on the planet if we could just get it to them.

 

[Luna Bliss]

23 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Another thing that comes to mind is the huge amount of land I have driven through in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick etc just sitting there with nothing on it but weeds that could either be farmed or failing that, used for feeding livestock. 

The way I see it is that the problem is not that the Earth could not support 10 billion people but that we as yet lack effective methods for utilizing either the land available

There's more to this problem than the empty space which could be used to produce food.

When we add more people they create many problems. More CO2 is causing a hotter planet that reduces potable water supplies all over the globe. In the central part of the U.S. it's getting too hot and dry for the crops that once supplied great amounts of food. The runoff from agricultural lands is harming the oceans too, with the ultimate result of reducing or eliminating food supply. Areas used to produce food in California are literally being burned up at accelerating rates.

We're undergoing the 6th great extinction. We live in a web of life  -- if our support system goes away (all the critters and plants we're eradicating via spreading our little human butts all over the place and causing a planetary imbalance) then we will go away too. Adding more people will just make it worse.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I think we have plenty of capacity already to feed everyone on the planet if we could just get it to them.

Existing under the umbrella of Capitalism it will always be too expensive to get the wasted food to everyone who needs it.

[Ceka Cianci]

7 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I do understand some of your reasonings here while at the same time being aware from friends who dairy farm and also farm for vegetable markets, that their quota's play a large part in their need to dump excesses above those levels. That seems to be especially relevant in the current climate with so many restaurants, hotels, schools, and other institutional users closed because of the lockdowns resulting in something like 50% less demand.

"As the coronavirus pandemic continues to wage a silent war across the country, American farmers are being forced to pour out milk, crush eggs, toss fresh fruits and vegetables, euthanize livestock and plow under perfectly robust crops

Meanwhile, financially beleaguered Americans are lining up at food banks in unprecedented numbers, humanitarian leaders fear a global starvation pandemic is burgeoning, and grocery store shelves are sparsely filled." https://www.foxnews.com/us/farmers-dump-food-grocery-stores-shortage-coronavirus

As @Silent Mistwalkeralready pointed out, these institutions and restaurants are some of the biggest dumpers of foods as I have seen myself years ago when leftover prepared foods were dumped in open dumpsters until they started using compactors. I also spent many years in the catering industry and know first hand how much foodstuffs would have to get tossed after weddings, banquets, and other events when food banks etc started having to refuse the excess because of potential liabilities from spoiled goods.

So many factors come into play but bottom line is that I think we have plenty of capacity already to feed everyone on the planet if we could just get it to them.

 

I was basically addressing the farmers for the most part and that 40% guestimate by the FDA about landfills.. Your post I responded to made it sound like this is what happens in the U.S all the time.. When in reality those farmers were hit with a disaster in their markets in the first part of the year.. like everyone else, they were caught off guard..

A lot of the articles that I'm finding that are related to the quote you have in blue are from late last spring..it doesn't mean they missed the whole season, just that they had a bad quarter.. Most of those items have short shelf lives that are produced pretty quickly.. the crops with the longer growing season were not plowed under..because they are mostly planted in spring and harvested in fall..

If most of those items didn't make it to market, it's a good chance they didn't make it to the land fills either.. That's a lot of compost to be just throwing away..

I'm not in the catering business or restaurant business, So I don't know what they do.. But I've got a pretty good idea about farming, so that's why I mostly stuck with that part of it..

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[Arielle Popstar]

16 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I was basically addressing the farmers for the most part and that 40% guestimate by the FDA about landfills.. Your post I responded to made it sound like this is what happens in the U.S all the time.. When in reality those farmers were hit with a disaster in their markets in the first part of the year.. like everyone else, they were caught off guard..

A lot of the articles that I'm finding that are related to the quote you have in blue are from late last spring..it doesn't mean they missed the whole season, just that they had a bad quarter.. Most of those items have short shelf lives that are produced pretty quickly.. the crops with the longer growing season were not plowed under..because they are mostly planted in spring and harvested in fall..

If most of those items didn't make it to market, it's a good chance they didn't make it to the land fills either.. That's a lot of compost to be just throwing away..

I'm not in the catering business or restaurant business, So I don't know what they do.. But I've got a pretty good idea about farming, so that's why I mostly stuck with that part of it..

 

 

Hope you don't think I was dissing farmers as that was definitely not my intent. I realize my getting a little sidetracked with the Covid lockdown dynamics might have confused what I was trying to point out where Government and market dynamics can cause a lot food waste. Even the part of what the FDS stated was not in reference specifically to the farmers but in totality what gets wasted, especially with Commercial and institutional waste being the predominant areas.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Arielle Popstar

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

 

Hope you don't think I was dissing farmers as that was definitely not my intent. I realize my getting a little sidetracked with the Covid lockdown dynamics might have confused what I was trying to point out where Government and market dynamics can cause a lot food waste. Even the part of what the FDS stated was not in reference specifically to the farmers but in totality what gets wasted, especially with Commercial and institutional waste being the predominant areas.

No I don't think you were dissing farmers.. I just felt since they were in there I would show a bit more detail in that area since I'm familiar with that..

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

@Ceka Cianci and @Arielle Popstar just made me smile.

[Sassy Kenin]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:06 PM, Gopi Passiflora said:

Many people are concerned about sustainability with regards to the environment and its resources. Some experts say that a diet focused on sustainability consists mainly of plant-based foods and avoids animal-based ones (although I believe experts say there are some animals which can be used as a sustainable food source - insects for example).

Do you personally think you can switch to a sustainable diet?

I don't know if I personally can. I'd have to wean myself from some of my favorite foods in order to have a healthy, sustainable diet.

No such thing as sustainable in our current society as long as big corporate interests are allowed and we have a culture were people have no idea how to grow food and no desire to.

I believe from science standards pre-2010 we evolved eating from what was in season, plant or animal and at times both. eat whats healthy for you and makes you feel well and normal.

I spend most of my time avoiding contaminated things in our environment that has way more harmful effects..makeup,fabric softer, city tap water unfiltered, drinking out of or using plastic kitchenware, air fresheners, avoiding things that mimic hormones in our body that create an imbalances.

One of the most important things about the original human diet is we went long times without eating allowing the body to use the energy we spent on digesting food to heal and repair itself.