Lag issues.

[SapphireOverDrive]

Hello, I am using a gaming laptop with a wired connection and I am experiencing lag in the second life viewer. Usually when I use 3D software or games on my PC I don't have that much of lag, so is there a way to fix this issue?

Here are my specs: 
             Machine name: LAPTOP-Q4OV8VUQ
               Machine Id: {2DE2FC0E-7999-4335-A2A1-F30CD207A7D2}
         Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 19041) (19041.vb_release.191206-1406)
                 Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
      System Manufacturer: Acer
             System Model: Nitro AN515-42
                     BIOS: V1.18 (type: UEFI)
                Processor: AMD Ryzen 5 2500U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx   (8 CPUs), ~2.0GHz
                   Memory: 8192MB RAM
      Available OS Memory: 7068MB RAM
                Page File: 10606MB used, 5654MB available
              Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
          DirectX Version: DirectX 12
      DX Setup Parameters: Not found
         User DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
       System DPI Setting: 120 DPI (125 percent)
          DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
                 Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Supported
 DirectX Database Version: 1.1.5
           DxDiag Version: 10.00.19041.0084 64bit Unicode

[Alwin Alcott]

lag is difficult to find in specs  we need stats
open your viewer, open the about/help and post that system info please ( that contains your viewer settings what tells more for some issues)

[oOJoselinOo]

You could have an realy expensive pc with an GeForce RTX 2080 TI and you could lag your ass off in second life. Depending on your settings and where you are

[SapphireOverDrive]

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

lag is difficult to find in specs  we need stats
open your viewer, open the about/help and post that system info please ( that contains your viewer settings what tells more for some issues)

You mean this:

Second Life Release 6.4.4.543157 (64bit)
Release Notes

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2500U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx   (1996.25 MHz)
Memory: 7069 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 19041.388)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: AMD Radeon(TM) Vega 8 Graphics

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 27.20.2001.9003
OpenGL Version: 4.2.14736 Compatibility Profile Context 20.7.2 27.20.2001.9003

Window size: 1920x1017
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 64m
Bandwidth: 3000kbit/s
LOD factor: 1.5
Render quality: 3
Advanced Lighting Model: Disabled
Texture memory: 512MB
VFS (cache) creation time: August 05 2020 00:59:13

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.00.07
Dullahan: 1.7.0.202005311828
  CEF: 81.3.10+gb223419+chromium-81.0.4044.138
  Chromium: 81.0.4044.138
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
August 05 2020 01:43:14

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Yes, that data and can you also please define "lag" in a more descriptive way? Do you see texture trashing as it constanty reloads? Too slow loading? Can't you walk in certain places?

I'd definitely try turning down those 3000 kbits/s to the usually recommended 1500 or less.

[SapphireOverDrive]

Well the textures takes some time to load, and when ever I walk I sometimes lag and stutters or just don't move a all. And my fps usually drop down to 5-9 depending where I'm at like populated places, detailed environments, etc.

[Chic Aeon]

6 hours ago, SapphireOverDrive said:

AMD Ryzen 5 2500U with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx

So I don't pay much attention to hardware until it is time for me to buy a computer. But reading this I was thinking that your "gaming laptop" was not so much one as it sounded like there was no dedicated graphics card which is very much what we need in SL.  So I went and asked Google and got this reply:  

 

 

SL has always been graphics card dependent. Even in 2004 when a bunch of friends joined (all in the computer design business) and ALL had to buy heftier graphics cards in order to actually USE SL as it was meant to be.  So there is that.  SL has traditionally not played well with AMD (what I used to have) so those here a lot have mostly switched to Nvidia (at least by comments on the forums).  Edit: I think this is not so much the case currently.  

 

You have your settings set pretty low except for that 3000, so I can see that the SL experience will probably not be all that great for you.  I have a notebook that I can compare too and while I CAN log into SL, it is basically only used for emergencies when my desktop is in the shop.   

 

This really isn't YOUR fault of course. Over the years, creators --- many anyway -- have made their mesh heavier and textures bigger and more numerous in order to look great. They DO look great, but at the same time they stop folks like you from enjoying SL.    I hope someone comes up with an answer to fix this for you but ----   

These are the specs on my four year old, rebuilt a couple of times because the company sold me some very bad components and put the computer together very poorly (the local computer shop redid all the connections for free because they couldn't stand looking at the wires dangling and not connected everywhere).

 

Aside from some weird issues now and then which rectify themselves with changes in server codes and one time reinstalling the viewer I have had a very pleasant time.  Also, if you didn't know SL runs MUCH better when not on wifi.  

 

This is my computer. My current fps is 80. I am at ground level but not much here. About the same fps up in the sky city with more (low poly) mesh.  

 

Firestorm 6.3.9 (58205) May 27 2020 01:20:51 (64bit) (Firestorm-Releasex64) with Havok support
Release Notes

You are at 45.2, 45.0, 25.8 in Moon Beach located at sim8913.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.41.89:13024)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Moon Beach/45/45/26
(global coordinates 173,613.0, 334,125.0, 25.8)
Second Life Server 2020-07-10T18:46:54.544832
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz (3298.09 MHz)
Memory: 16286 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 18362.959)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 980/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 26.21.14.3200
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 432.00

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.54.1 OpenSSL/1.0.2l zlib/1.2.8 nghttp2/1.25.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.7
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.00.08
Dullahan: 1.1.1320 / CEF: 3.3626.1895.g7001d56 / Chromium: 72.0.3626.121
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Window size: 2560x1377 px
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1.5
Draw distance: 120 m
Bandwidth: 1500 kbit/s
LOD factor: 2
Render quality: High-Ultra (6/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: Yes
Texture memory: 2048 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2020-6-12T15:31:16 
Built with MSVC version 1800
Packets Lost: 0/1,772 (0.0%)
August 05 2020 08:57:52 SLT

Edited August 5, 2020 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Odaks]

An important note about using the Help - About [viewer name] statistics:-

If you are able to log in, do so - then copy the Help - About[...] page to paste here.

This will ensure that one other vital statistic gets recorded, namely Packets Lost (not shown on the OP's listing).

The fastest, slickest internet provider doesn't always mean the best quality for the entire connection, and a weakness here can be devastating!

@Chic Aeon's listing shows it - a delightful 0.0% - but only because she was logged in when she collected the statistics.

 

 

[Jackson Redstar]

Lag nowadays is primarily avi - induced, or at least a major factor in it. turning off shadows in a crowded place or otherwise laggy sim can help greatly - you can always adjust whatever WL you're on to look good shadowless (of course, on FS viewer if you close the env edit window w/o saving the WL u lose the changes) you can lower the 'avi count' in crowded places as well, 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

SL has always been graphics card dependent

That Vega unit is at least a good deal ahead of Intel's iGPU solutions, hence why it would be interesting if the cited "lag" is more graphic related or other symptoms. 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Try Firestorm or Alchemy and give it a little bigger texture cache in graphics prefs. Like 1024MB or so. While you're in the graphics preferences, turn particles down as far as you can tolerate.

[Tonk Tomcat]

You should switch to wireframe mode and i guess you will see what is causing the lag. Even with the best machine sl is unable to run really smooth as soon as some ppl are arround you, because the most of the wonderful creators think it is high quality to use as many polygons as possible and so a simple avatar can have more complexity than an entire scene in a current AAA game. Set the allowed avatar complexity to somewhat about 30-40k and blacklist all objects with a dense mesh to the render blacklist will help.

[Beq Janus]

As noted elsewhere:-

Lag compared with some_random_game is not really an addressable problem. It might be useful here to list just a few of the reasons why such comparisons are not likely to yield sensible results.

SL is quite different in performance constraints to a commercial game for many reasons and thus what you can achieve in those games is not achievable in SL

1) A commercial game for the most part has predicatble rendering, the creators will have measured each scene or level and identified rendering issues that cause jitter in the frame rate.
2) The commercial game has content made by professional artists who care about, and perhaps more importantly are rewarded by the performance-quality of their assets . SL content is produced by artists who generally care very little about performance as SL shoppers do not reward creators for their dilligence but instead shop based on some perception of visual-quality . 

3) In most games, the assets that are drawn are not having to be streamed from a remote serer, they are part of the installation on your hard drive

4) In a game, things are pretty much under the control of the producers, they know exactly when a blood crazed zombie is going to appear, and thus it can be made ready. In SL, we literally do not know from frame to frame if a new object we've never seen before is going to appear, with existing stationary objects are going to start moving around, growing, shrinking, spinning, changing colour.... 

What these all mean is that the viewer is not able to be a typical game engine, a large swathe of the optimisations commonly employed in games to increase and maintain framerates are simply not viable in a dynamic environment like ours. 

So what lag/performance comparisons do make sense?

The correct comparisons are viewer to viewer.

* One viewer versus another, for example SL viewer versus Firestorm, or Firestorm versus Alchemy. Different viewers have different motivators and different user bases. Firestorm (which I work on, just to give full disclosure here 🙂 ) is not likely to be the fastest. We carry a large proportion of SL users and these users have a very broad range of hardware and network capabilities and a very broad set of requirements. We are a feature rich, somewhat portly viewer. Meanwhile, Alchemy prides itself on performance, but may well not be able to provide all the configuration bells and whistles we give you. Pick your viewer based upon your needs.

* One viewer release versus another. With each new release of the viewers, new features are added. Sometimes these can improve performance, sometimes they will increase the demands on your hardware and may well be slower. thus comparing lag between viewer version numbers of the same viewer is a valid measurement too.

A good example here is to compare the performance of EEP and non-EEP viewer releases. We have advised most people to not use the current preview because we feel that the performance amongst other things is simply not acceptable. There are a number of issues that are being actively worked upon by the Lab to improve some of the newly introduced overheads and once those flow down stream we will review our stance and the release status.

(The EEP performance issue is an interesting example, some people (the minority it seems) are not seeing the degradation that others are. I see about 20% lower frame rates on EEP. Some others are not and that is very likely to do with where in the maze of viewer activity the bottleneck is occurring for that individual.) 

 

 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Last visit: 5 hours ago. But no reply... case closed?

[SapphireOverDrive]

Sorry for the late reply, anyways it turns out a that singularity and alchemy is the best viewers for me by far. After doing some tweaking in the settings my fps has gone up.

Edited August 8, 2020 by SapphireOverDrive