Is it time for LL to provide an inworld grid-wide redelivery service?

[Gabriele Graves]

With the spate of "Is it time for LL to...?" topics, I thought I would throw another into the mix.  ?

This could be done to guarantee that purchased products get to the customer as intended and provide backup for those inventory hiccups that still occur for some.

Even today, there are many stores that either do not use a redelivery system, change systems and lose older purchases, or plain just don't seem to be able to add new purchases reliably and automatically without manual intervention.  I think a standardised service would help a lot here, especially if it was easy-peasy to get setup with.  I know I would feel much better knowing my purchase data and redelivery was being handled by LL instead of a third-party.

It could even be a Premium Perk you get for free with a possible Content Creator-level Premium subscription.  This would then help to pay for the service, though that wouldn't really help much to making sure it is used everywhere.  Perhaps a reasonable charge to use without Premium subscription also would help there.

Obviously, I realise this wouldn't be popular with existing redelivery service providers and there are definitely those who will say how the whole thing cannot be feasibly technically done.  However, I pretty much believe this attitude precedes everything LL does end up providing anyway, so ?‍♀️ (:shrug:)

Over to you for your thoughts...

[chibiusa Ling]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

With the spate of "Is it time for LL to...?" topics, I thought I would throw another into the mix.  ?

This could be done to guarantee that purchased products get to the customer as intended and provide backup for those inventory hiccups that still occur for some.

Even today, there are many stores that either do not use a redelivery system, change systems and lose older purchases, or plain just don't seem to be able to add new purchases reliably and automatically without manual intervention.  I think a standardised service would help a lot here, especially if it was easy-peasy to get setup with.  I know I would feel much better knowing my purchase data and redelivery was being handled by LL instead of a third-party.

It could even be a Premium Perk you get for free with a possible Content Creator-level Premium subscription.  This would then help to pay for the service, though that wouldn't really help much to making sure it is used everywhere.  Perhaps a reasonable charge to use without Premium subscription also would help there.

Obviously, I realise this wouldn't be popular with existing redelivery service providers and there are definitely those who will say how the whole thing cannot be feasibly technically done.  However, I pretty much believe this attitude precedes everything LL does end up providing anyway, so ?‍♀️ (:shrug:)

Over to you for your thoughts...

Nar dont suggest it for premium. Something like redelivery on products should be available to all avatars. Its not fair for person A to loose their money because person B no longer plays second life and can't send person A the product they paid cash for. Personally I could care less about in world, I just want to see this feature added to the marketplace.

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, chibiusa Ling said:

Nar dont suggest it for premium. Something like redelivery on products should be available to all avatars. Its not fair for person A to loose their money because person B no longer plays second life and can't send person A the product they paid cash for. Personally I could care less about in world, I just want to see this feature added to the marketplace.

I agree but the Premium part was aimed at the vendors, not the customer.  So it wouldn't necessarily create a new two tier entitlement split.

[Fionalein]

3 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I agree but the Premium part was aimed at the vendors, not the customer.  So it wouldn't necessarily create a new two tier entitlement split.

There are enough non-Premium creators out there, hell you can even own a whole sim cluster without going Premium....

[chibiusa Ling]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I agree but the Premium part was aimed at the vendors, not the customer.  So it wouldn't necessarily create a new two tier entitlement split.

Nar no premium at all. Something like that should just come standard.

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, Fionalein said:

There are enough non-Premium creators out there, hell you can even own a whole sim cluster without going Premium....

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It could even be a Premium Perk you get for free with a possible Content Creator-level Premium subscription.  This would then help to pay for the service, though that wouldn't really help much to making sure it is used everywhere.  Perhaps a reasonable charge to use without Premium subscription also would help there.

Yep got that covered too.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

LL doesn't make vendors.. You really want them to create a vendor system and then what, give it to everyone to use? Riiight. They charge people for every single thing. There is a reason merchants use Caspervend. They have that feature. 

[Gabriele Graves]

LL also didn't have their own currency exchange or off-world marketplace at one stage.  These were provided by third-parties too.
Caspervend also charges people to use it and so no difference there either.
And Yes, I actually would favour a vendor system created by LL if it came with universal redelivery.

[Klytyna]

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I actually would favour a vendor system created by LL if it came with universal redelivery.

Realistically... There are enough problems guaranteeing DELIVERY for the MP, never mind redelivery for the whole grid...
 

[Ethan Paslong]

i don't really see the need for this, if a seller doesn't have a redelivery service it's their problem, not LL. If there isn't a redelivery... don't buy there, it's pretty easy for a seller to get such system.

I personally don't see redelivery as real requirement for everything. If items are copy you can make your own back ups, for a few lindens a month you can rent a little piece of land and put your copy items in a box (in case your inventory breaks)

I'm not a merchant in these kind of transactions, but don't see it as their responsibility to keep sales records and products available in all eternity. ... it's a service you don't have for your rl stuff either.

Would perhaps be a idea for merchants to create a kind of insurance service.....if you wany insurance.. buy insurance with your product for a certain time,  Perhaps that would be interesting to get rebates...or more safe feeling for the buyers.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Jules Catlyn]

5 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

LL also didn't have their own currency exchange or off-world marketplace at one stage.  These were provided by third-parties too.
Caspervend also charges people to use it and so no difference there either.
And Yes, I actually would favour a vendor system created by LL if it came with universal redelivery.

Caspervend only charges creator who get the free vendors. The premium vendors don't charge commission from the creator. Only if the creator then makes affiliate vendors and hands them out. Then a small fee will be charged per transaction. So for around 8 usd/7 euros or whatever currency is applicable any creator in SL can have a functioning vendor system including redelivery. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jules Catlyn

[Gabriele Graves]

Thanks for the info @Jules Catlyn.  However it doesn't really change what I was trying to say.  Money has or will have exchanged hands for Caspervend use in all cases whether user is freemium or premium.  There is no reason why LL also couldn't provide a service on an equivalent basis also even if it is thought to be unlikely.

@Ethan Paslong The reasons I see for this are state in my OP.  Redelivery is a real need, you should frequent the ladies fashion groups and see how many people accidentally delete things, get them eaten by the system somehow or just lose all their inventory.  Requests for redelivery are numerous.  If there were no real need, I doubt so many vendors would provide the service.

[Cindy Evanier]

15 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Caspervend only charges creator who get the free vendors. The premium vendors don't charge commission from the creator. Only if the creator then makes affiliate vendors and hands them out. Then a small fee will be charged per transaction. So for around 8 usd/7 euros or whatever currency is applicable any creator in SL can have a functioning vendor system including redelivery. 

Got to agree.  we (well Ki)  have used the premium vendors for years and the cost is nothing compared to what you get for it.  Redelivery and an easy way to update customers when we update a product.  Just two of the great features 

[Cindy Evanier]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Requests for redelivery are numerous.

But the merchant was paid for the product,  surely it is their responsibility to provide a redelivery service?   LL wasn't paid for the product

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, Cindy Evanier said:

But the merchant was paid for the product,  surely it is their responsibility to provide a redelivery service?   LL wasn't paid for the product

In the same way that the vendor is using the third-party today, the vendor be would using the LL service.  The vendor would still be providing the service to their customers but through LL functionality instead.  It would become part of the platform.  There are many examples where LL provide a service that a vendor takes advantage of but, apart from everyone who pays for the platform contributing, LL gets nothing directly from the sale.  The "Buy", "Pay" feature and the ability to send an object from a vendor system to a customer are critical examples of these.

However, in this idea though, a more direct payment to LL from each vendor could probably be achieved if that was the way to make it feasible.  Maybe it wouldn't be necessary.  Only LL would be able to say.  There has been a lot of talk recently about finding alternative forms of revenue to help LL become less dependent on land sales and tier.  It was stated that part of that solution is inworld commerce.  This idea, in my opinion, could be just one of many things that could help achieve that.

[Jules Catlyn]

12 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

But the merchant was paid for the product,  surely it is their responsibility to provide a redelivery service?   LL wasn't paid for the product

I fully agree with this. Service and such are the task of the seller/creator. In fact i would not want anyone else but me in charge of what goes on in my business. If redelivery is such a big issue maybe it should be voiced more by the people concerned by it. If creators are aware that it is a great feature to have they would implement it more themselves and even advertise the fact that they provide this service so that customers can decide whether to buy from them or not. So my suggestion would be not to have Ll handle such services but for people to see whether a creator has this service before they make a large purchase or even customers to get together and make lists of creators that provide the service. This is SL and the emphasis has always been that it is a user created world so if there is a problem people can find ways to fix it. Whether it is a creator seeing the problem and buying a system for a small fee to handle it or customers making each other aware of creators that do provide the service.

 

[Ethan Paslong]

25 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

see how many people accidentally delete things,

and that"s the sellers to blame? ... as i said, keep a copy in a safe place.

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, Ethan Paslong said:

and that"s the sellers to blame? ... as i said, keep a copy in a safe place.

 

Who said it was?  Nevertheless, in many areas of SL business today, those blameless vendors are providing this service to their customers, either automatically or manually.  They must have good reasons to do this.

[Jules Catlyn]

2 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Who said it was?  Nevertheless, in many areas of SL business today, those blameless vendors are providing this service to their customers, either automatically or manually.  They must have good reasons to do this.

The reason i provide it is because i think it is great service to provide to customers. I did not implement it because i had a lot of people asking for products to be redelivered. 

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, Jules Catlyn said:

The reason i provide it is because i think it is great service to provide to customers. I did not implement it because i had a lot of people asking for products to be redelivered. 

I think it is really great that you do provide this service.  I have personally witnessed many requests for redelivery in the clothing, hair, mesh body parts and other store groups.  Many of the requests are in the form of "Where can I find the redelivery terminal?".  It is asked multiple times a day by multiple people.  Perhaps it's just that you don't encounter it a lot?

One of the problems it can fix is that delivery didn't work properly in the first place, during sales events on a crowded store things start to go awry.  Sometimes the item is in redelivery and the customer can simply redeliver themselves once they know where the terminal is.  Sometimes it was delivered and it isn't in the redelivery, people come to the groups asking if that can be fixed so they can redeliver if they need to.  Maybe some of that is that people feel better knowing that they can always get another copy if necessary.  I know I do.

[Tarani Tempest]

16 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

The reason i provide it is because i think it is great service to provide to customers. I did not implement it because i had a lot of people asking for products to be redelivered. 

Yep, this for sure.   We all know that things can get mucked up from deliveries to accidental deletion.  So, many SL businesses decide to offer it as part of their business plan.  It is good customer service.  Also Caspervend does Soooooooo much more for a designer than just redeliveries.  I honestly would be lost w/out it.  None of that is LL's responsibility.  It really is the designer's responsibility...it is part of running a good business in SL.

I would rather LL stuck to keeping SL running as optimally as possible and continuing to work on amazing projects for all of us to play with.  Bento was and is amazing!  No need to bog LL down with having to babysit SL business owners and their customers.  There is already a great working solution for that.  Every single business in SL has the option to use it.

 

 

[Jules Catlyn]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think it is really great that you do provide this service.  I have personally witnessed many requests for redelivery in the clothing, hair, mesh body parts and other store groups.  Many of the requests are in the form of "Where can I find the redelivery terminal?".  It is asked multiple times a day by multiple people.  Perhaps it's just that you don't encounter it a lot?

One of the problems it can fix is that delivery didn't work properly in the first place, during sales events on a crowded store things start to go awry.  Sometimes the item is in redelivery and the customer can simply redeliver themselves once they know where the terminal is.  Sometimes it was delivered and it isn't in the redelivery, people come to the groups asking if that can be fixed so they can redeliver if they need to.  Maybe some of that is that people feel better knowing that they can always get another copy if necessary.  I know I do.

I do not disagree that redelivery is a great service but i don't agree that LL should provide it. Like i said before Second Life is a user generated world. If people want this service they should buy from creators that provide the service. It is an easy check. They can also use their voices to make creators aware that such a service is one that is necessary to provide. They can also make each other aware of which creators have this service and which don't. There are many ways to solve this problem but i do not believe LL providing it is the right one.

[Cindy Evanier]

21 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

"Where can I find the redelivery terminal?"

I think you can also click on any vendor and it takes you to the redelivery page too

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Cindy Evanier said:

I think you can also click on any vendor and it takes you to the redelivery page too

lol Yes but it doesn't stop people asking anyway.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Lets looks at your thought from a merchants point of view, shall we? 

I use Caspervend. I have several hundred items in that system. I am a small merchant, there are merchants with thousands of items.

If LL were to suddenly say "HEY GUYS!!! Here is a free vendor system that works just like Capervend!"

1. Caspervend could possibly sue them for breach of contract. There is a reason LL doesn't make and sell clothing, houses, furniture, Skins, Avatars, and the like. They would be in direct competition with their customer base. 
2. Do i really think LL could make a system comparable to Caspervend and have it work as well without issues? Heck no. Look at all the bugs, crashes, glitches and the like that happen daily in SL. 
3. Would i really want to move and relist all of my few hundred items? Not a snowballs chance in H E ??. I would think the huge merchants that use Caspervend would have even less desire to do all that work for the same service they already have. 

I have the free version of Caspervends system, the small fee doesnt bother me in the slightest. I pay LL 5% for every MP sale. No difference with the vendors. Speaking of, do you really think LL wont take a cut of each sale with their vendor system? They do it on the MP. 

The simple fact is, if merchants want to offer redelivery, there is already a vendor system that does it. Come to think of it.. I dont know of any stores that don't already use it. Every store i shop at and have visited through various hunts over the almost 12 years in SL have used Caspervend. Do you have something against them?