No room to sail

[greek Wingtips]

Why does LL persist and allow sailable waters to come in contact with sellable land and the edge of Sims thus not allowing other people to pass, in effect you buy sailable plots only to find its blocked on the edge of private land and the edge of sim,   check the location  170.217.21  LL should at least leave a gap so one can sail through.

Hope that makes sense

[angeoco]

There does seem to be a wedge of water there reserved for passing traffic. It's owned by Governor Linden. Of course boats would need to slow down when passing through as it gets very close to the sim corner. If objects from neighbouring parcels encroach on that channel, it should be abuse-reported.

Edited July 6, 2018 by angeoco

[greek Wingtips]

Thanks for that angeco, but if you have a big ship, it jams up between land and the edge of sim, and its not just the section its all over that area, you buy a plot in good faith on the fact you think you have sailable water only to find out you dont,    not happy at all feel like I been conned

[Phorumities]

2 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

Thanks for that angeco, but if you have a big ship, it jams up between land and the edge of sim, and its not just the section its all over that area, you buy a plot in good faith on the fact you think you have sailable water only to find out you dont,    not happy at all feel like I been conned

before you buy you need to walk this "sailable water" to see if it goes anywhere. 

As usual, it's buyer beware.

 

[angeoco]

Even worse is those narrow Linden channels with sharp turns, like this one:

In theory it's sailable, but anything more than a small motorboat is asking for trouble. Then there are the ads that claim that the land is good for "sailing to the Blake Sea" when it is in fact on the other side of the Nautilus continent and involves a hair-raising trip up to Corsica and back down again, and good luck finding your way home again. The only way to be sure is to actually sail the route in your biggest boat before committing.

[Callum Meriman]

5 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

Thanks for that angeco, but if you have a big ship, it jams up between land and the edge of sim, and its not just the section its all over that area, you buy a plot in good faith on the fact you think you have sailable water only to find out you dont,    not happy at all feel like I been conned

There are always quite a few ads on the forums that advertise "Sail to the Blake Sea" with those, as with any land, you need to carefull plot the exact course and in fact sail it in your largest boat.

Those ads are sometimes correct, if you are willing to sail for 5 hours along tiny little channels (often blocked) and dodging ban lines.

Buying sailable land on good faith is akin to buying un-demo mesh for the "Signature" and trusting it will fit the "Signature Geralt".

 

In this case you may need to RP a sail. Set off and then teleport to "Cape Kirk" (The Star Trek in me makes that one easy to recall) and resume sailing.

[Callum Meriman]

Went looking at this spot and it's clear encroachment

A kind sailing neighbor wouldn't use ban lines there, or would place some buoys to show the property line.

I've reported this one for encroachment, but extra reports will help. That channel is narrow so it should/must be zero tolerance on even textures.

As a hint to help find those channels - right click your Firestorm minimap, then click Show>Property Lines.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[angeoco]

Here's one I reported a couple of months ago, and it's still there:

It's blocking the entire Linden channel on the east coast of Heterocera. It's a beach, furnished with a campfire etc., inside a rock arch. But the funny thing is that the whole thing is phantom, so it's no use to anybody! Yes we can just sail through it but how are we to know that in advance?

[Gator Peterman]

42 minutes ago, angeoco said:

Here's one I reported a couple of months ago, and it's still there:

It's blocking the entire Linden channel on the east coast of Heterocera. It's a beach, furnished with a campfire etc., inside a rock arch. But the funny thing is that the whole thing is phantom, so it's no use to anybody! Yes we can just sail through it but how are we to know that in advance?

Derender/blacklist phantom objects so you don't see them next time. Check before by 'edit object' if its really phantom.

Alternative is to sail in a private estate like Fruit Islands with over 200 regions. One owner, one rule...no crap.

[angeoco]

"Derender/blacklist phantom objects so you don't see them next time."
- We usually want to see phantom stuff, for example our boats would look really strange without masts and sails, which are usually phantom.

"Check before by 'edit object' if its really phantom."
- Sure, after laboriously bringing our boat to a stop, and then checking that each individual item there is phantom - we don't want our way blocked by a solid deckchair on the phantom beach.

"Alternative is to sail in a private estate like Fruit Islands with over 200 regions. One owner, one rule...no crap."
- So we should just give in and let mainland water be taken over by land-grabbers? No. It's public water, where many of us live, and it's still where the best sailing is.

Or how about: Expect people to respect public water, and expect LL to take encroachment reports seriously and deal with them promptly?

Edited July 7, 2018 by angeoco

[ChinRey]

3 hours ago, angeoco said:

But the funny thing is that the whole thing is phantom, so it's no use to anybody! Yes we can just sail through it but how are we to know that in advance?

If it's phantom the owner probably tried to avoid blocking the passage but didn't think it through.

It might be worth sending the owner an IM and ask them to move the cave a bit further out so it's offsim and out of the way. Yes, I know, contacting people is not how problems are usually solved in SL but sometimes unconvetional methods may be worth trying.

[Gator Peterman]

1 hour ago, angeoco said:

"Derender/blacklist phantom objects so you don't see them next time."
- We usually want to see phantom stuff, for example our boats would look really strange without masts and sails, which are usually phantom.

"Check before by 'edit object' if its really phantom."
- Sure, after laboriously bringing our boat to a stop, and then checking that each individual item there is phantom - we don't want our way blocked by a solid deckchair on the phantom beach.

"Alternative is to sail in a private estate like Fruit Islands with over 200 regions. One owner, one rule...no crap."
- So we should just give in and let mainland water be taken over by land-grabbers? No. It's public water, where many of us live, and it's still where the best sailing is.

Or how about: Expect people to respect public water, and expect LL to take encroachment reports seriously and deal with them promptly?

I obviously meant to visually derender the object, not your boat. And to check if a seemingly obstructing object is phantom or not can be done hundreds of meters before. You don't have to stop, simply cam and edit. These are always large off-sim objects since very few people in SL have rights to build permanently on linden land.

I have been sailing these regions for over 9 years and wish you good luck battling LL on this

[Alyona Su]

19 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

Thanks for that angeco, but if you have a big ship, it jams up between land and the edge of sim, and its not just the section its all over that area, you buy a plot in good faith on the fact you think you have sailable water only to find out you dont,    not happy at all feel like I been conned

This has always happened, since 2006 and before. As stated below, you need to reconnoiter the entire coastline before committing.

16 hours ago, Phorumities said:

before you buy you need to walk this "sailable water" to see if it goes anywhere. 

As usual, it's buyer beware.

 

Definitely this. When land-hunting to buy or rent, always trace the coastline on the world map, look for any blockages next to void areas (classic example: look at the southwest corner of Blake Sea: https://jumpshare.com/v/PUG66JoASsWXyP49x3s9

Yet, a lot of people buy land south of that impassable area thinking they have sailing access to the Blake Sea. Ummm, not so much.

2 hours ago, angeoco said:

"Derender/blacklist phantom objects so you don't see them next time."
- We usually want to see phantom stuff, for example our boats would look really strange without masts and sails, which are usually phantom.

"Check before by 'edit object' if its really phantom."
- Sure, after laboriously bringing our boat to a stop, and then checking that each individual item there is phantom - we don't want our way blocked by a solid deckchair on the phantom beach.

"Alternative is to sail in a private estate like Fruit Islands with over 200 regions. One owner, one rule...no crap."
- So we should just give in and let mainland water be taken over by land-grabbers? No. It's public water, where many of us live, and it's still where the best sailing is.

Or how about: Expect people to respect public water, and expect LL to take encroachment reports seriously and deal with them promptly?

This. So much this.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Alyona Su

[Carn Windlow]

13 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

This has always happened, since 2006 and before. As stated below, you need to reconnoiter the entire coastline before committing.

Definitely this. When land-hunting to buy or rent, always trace the coastline on the world map, look for any blockages next to void areas (classic example: look at the southwest corner of Blake Sea: https://jumpshare.com/v/PUG66JoASsWXyP49x3s9

Yet, a lot of people buy land south of that impassable area thinking they have sailing access to the Blake Sea. Ummm, not so much.

This. So much this.

I have taken 60+ meter ships through that spot on my way to deliver at Mole Village.

[greek Wingtips]

It really about tome LLs did something about this rather than wait for members to report them, look at what Gator wrote he reported it and the blockage is still there,  LL should take this seriously I wasted 5k , should the onus be on me to map out every blockage????   Come on LL do your job

[Gator Peterman]

I don't want to sound as the devils advocate, but from the standpoint of LL there are hundreds of these narrow spots in SL. Even if they return stuff, it can be back the next day. Also these mainland parcels quickly change ownership.

LL created these pathways as a service to the sailing community, but my impression after many years experience of sailing on Linden land is that's where it ends. Its basically up to the community to solve disputes. Landowners are LL clients who pay tier. Who you think they value more, clients or struggling sailors...

Before you buy mainland, check, check and check again. Mainland is a jungle, it always was and always will be, I owned mainland for years. Check who else owns parcels in the nearby regions and what abilities that gives them to block. Your neighbour today, can be gone tomorrow. If the land is cheap, its cheap for a reason.

Happy sailing

[Aethelwine]

I don't think phantom objects count as a blockage, I think the Lindens only act on physical blockages. If I see something blocking a linden route I will assume it is phantom and steer through it. If memory serves Gaeta V has some huge phantom mountains covering a sim or two in the SE of the continent. 

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

Come on LL do your job

they do... they run the server parks, update the software and provide a platform to play our second life.

You however didn't do your job to check everything as advertised.

It;s like a buying a home in rl... advertising "authentic look" ..or  "authentic details present" .. totally different meaning, the first is a ruin, the second a well maintained and rebuild home. You'll have to check.

3 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

I wasted 5k

you didn't, you have a sailable area in there, you have land.. like everywhere you'll have to deal with certain limits.
Take your ship, tp and sail on. And people here saying they sailed there with large ships.. so it is possible. In that case the question is, what do you try to get in that channel?

I do understand you wánt to sail everywhere, but it's in short the same discussion as the fly and drive threads... sorry but you simply can't force all residents to give acces to everybody that wants to fly/sail/drive. If SL was meant to be that way, it would be designed so.
If you want access to larger areas you'll have to plan your landpurchase carefully, check, and double check... but tomorrow all can be different.

[greek Wingtips]

First they sailed through other areas, not mine,  and second, the onus should not be on the member, to go around walking underwater around a whole sims on edge of waters  looking at property lines that and objects between governor linden land and the edge of sims to see if a sailable object is passable  that is ludicrous 

[Callum Meriman]

14 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

the onus should not be on the member, to go around walking underwater around a whole sims on edge of waters  looking at property lines that and objects between governor linden land and the edge of sims to see if a sailable object is passable  that is ludicrous 

No it's not. It's due diligence.

You don't take any such purchase on face value, you check the land is suitable for your purpose. Being madlands, you must also be aware that a clear route this week will not be clear next week.

IF you want sailable land, you buy it at the place you wish to sail at, not half a continent away.

6K is only US$20 - a pizza, if that. Learn your lesson as everyone else has.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[greek Wingtips]

Callum you are talking utter rubbish, I do not get SL free I actually paid for it in membership and tiers so some degree of responsibly is on LLs is to check if you going to call it sailable sea then that what it should be,   so mate carry on eating your pizza, 

Edited July 8, 2018 by greek Wingtips

[Phorumities]

1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said:

Callum you are talking utter rubbish, I do not get SL free I actually paid for it in membership and tiers so some degree of responsibly is on LLs is to check if you going to call it sailable sea then that what it should be,   so mate carry on eating your pizza, 

So, you expect LL has to check every description of every parcel for sale to see if the description is accurate?

Most descriptions are not entirely accurate. You see an ad for prime oceanfront,  and yes, you are on the edge of an ocean, but its abandoned land which could be bought up at any time.

The only guaranteed ocean front/sailable land is beside LL protected land, and that is easy enough to check for when u actually visit the parcel.

 

[greek Wingtips]

No Phorumites, I expect that where sailable water and private land meet so close that LL checks to make sure its cleared, If I have the capacity to check they can too with the added additions of removing any obstacles, whereby I dont, and like the previous commenter said he reported a blockage and nothing has been done,  that's the point I making.   

[Phorumities]

9 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

No Phorumites, I expect that where sailable water and private land meet so close that LL checks to make sure its cleared, If I have the capacity to check they can too with the added additions of removing any obstacles, whereby I dont, and like the previous commenter said he reported a blockage and nothing has been done,  that's the point I making.   

Oic, yes any encroachments on LL land that impede travel should be reported, and then just hope LL does something about it.

 

[Abnor Mole]

Most of those channels are small or narrow due to the fact they were originally made waaaay back in the day when everything was made from prims and limited to 10m in any axis and 32 prims for a vehicle. Most boats in SL were much smaller back then because of this. You didn't see 60m long and 12m wide 200LI container ships on the Linden Seas the way you do now. 

And yes, if you see someone blocking the channel please abuse report the encroaching objects.