Recurring problem in SL Fashion

[Unregistered]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

There is a simple solution. You can learn blender and become a creator too! Then you have the complete ability to create anything you like for your preferred market and body

The best part is, once you become a creator and start selling your clothes into your market, you won't have anyone telling you "Nope, you can't make only that, you must spend the many, many, many hours rigging for x, y, z bodies.

What am I saying? SL creators are not your slaves. They have the absolute right to do what they find is fun and make what they find appealing - even if that's spending 40 hours rigging clothes for only one body and not 120 hours rigging clothes for three.

They also have the absolute right to earn as much money as they can for those hundreds of hours they spent working for US$1 a sale.

I'm so glad you have decided I am not a creator. Genuinely so. It means I can disregard this, as it seems you clutch the misconception that people who ask for equality have no experience as content creators. That because I beg for fairness and equality means I insist upon servitude. This is ridiculous, and was already addressed in the thread. I have worked in the Quake Engine for over 15 years. I know all about its capabilities, and its applications for SL. I have scripted Python, C++ and Java for ten. I have several active listings on the MP which sell well.

But that is all tangential to the point. This should have never even been doubled down on.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Unregistered

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Unregistered said:

I’m so glad you have decided I am not a creator. Genuinely so. It means I can disregard this

I’m sorry, I almost warned Callum after he posted, as I already made a similar mistake and you called me out. 

[Klytyna]

You appear to be under a number of very serious misconceptions...

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

This message is intended for LL's orgchart and people who are actually in a position to work on it. Please no deferments or fashion suggestions

Nobody who would possibly fit that description regularly takes part in this forum.

 

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I am writing this as a concerned citizen of SL for 9 years now.

WARNING: 2nd Wave Lastnamer Entitlement Syndrome Whiner Post!

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

and as it stands, the current market structure would appear to be unsustainable.

Aww, is YOUR business not making as much money as YOU think YOU are entitled to?

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Not to mention that SL is a multi-cultural community in which gambling is forbidden in some cultures, and some of those cultures, specifically those of Muslim origin see gacha schemes as gambling.

Any member of that faith devout enough to whine about Gacha being "filthy western infidel gambling" would be devout enough to whine that the gacha outfits are not "officially Imam approved one woman personal ankle length mobile hessian body tents (tm)" but instead consist of "godless western infidel whore clothes that reveal womens ANKLES and encouragfe good muslims to commit rape". Playing the "muslims wouldnt like it " card is an epic fail in this case, bad luck.

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

For those people these items are unobtainable except by second hand unregulated gouge sales on the Marketplace

All retail in SL is essentially "unregulated", welcome to the digital experiment in un-regulated free market fallacy anarcho-capitalism uber alles, at its very worst.

In SL there is no such thing as Consumer Rights, Consumer Protection or Trading Standards. After being here for 9 years, you *should* have already noticed this.

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

As a second point of note, it seems that the hard work of Bento creators, to develop new items for compatible bodies has been reduced down to creators choosing one body to build for

It's not a "claim" it's a simple fact, why the hell should a mesh maker WASTE 20 hours of their life making a version of an outfit to fit the "Jihad-Queen" mesh body, that only 37 people have ever heard of, 23 have ever seen and 4 have ever used...

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

As the market then becomes more homogenous, creativity, and uniqueness of avatar appearances go by the wayside.

People were making unoriginal avatars  9 years ago, making them in droves, that hasn't changed, that is user stupidity, not "we're limited by not using unpopular unsupported unrealistic micro brand mesh bodies from clueless self entitled asshats".

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

THIS ESPECIALLY AFFECTS ETHNIC AVATARS

NO IT DOES NOT. TO CLAIM IT DOES IS FRAUDULENT.

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Please, someone within the regulatory body of SL, look into this. I'm not sure what the solution is. But you have to make it so everyone can still enjoy SL.

Did you MISS the part abut SL's retail market being un-regulated... In addition, the only "everybody" who's enjoyment i see being protected in your post is "everybody who whines about offending religions that exist only to be offended, and people who think crying 'ethnic' entitles them to piss down everyone elses back and tell them it's raining"

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Yes I own a Maitreya body. No, I do not want to look like you

If you think using the same body brand as myself means you are limited to looking just like me, then you are as talentless at customising your avatar as you are and making a valid case in your posts. 

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I don't see how any of what I said was suggesting a new feature.

The new feature you are requesting is an official regulatory body to guarantee the right of a self important self entitled bigoted minority to tell everyone else to obey the rules of a dark age middle eastern death cult with a history of oppressing women.

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

And I don't see the request for a debate either.

You requested a debate the moment you chose to post your rant in the forums rather than sending it direct to Ebbe Linden via email/support ticket.jira.

11 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Have you thought of becoming a creator?

11 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Are you assuming that I'm not?

That would be a mistake.

Ah, seems I was right when I assumed you ran some business making and selling unpopular/unsupported stuff, and are now whining because you are not making as much money as you feel you are ENTITLED to...

10 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Also, deferments were not solicited in the OP. Furthers will not be acknowledged so as not to tangent from the subject.

Translation into Plain English: "I was dumb enough to make me insane demands in entirely the wrong place and now the smart people are picking on my... WAGGHHHHHHH I have my fingers in my ears lalalalala I can't hear you!"

10 hours ago, Unregistered said:

It would be erroneous in no small part to dismiss this call to fairness and impartiality in business practice as a 'rant'.

Business practice in SL is fair and impartial... There is NO regulation of the "free market" root hog or die, if you FAILED to establish your products as market leaders, that is YOUR problem for producing products most people do not want...

Complaining that your FAILED business model FAILED and demanding that LL somehow FIX this so you can make as much money as you THINK you are ENTITLED to, is clearly a RANT.

Your original post and subsequent replies constitute a self important self entitled ethno-pretentious rant that is a gratuitous display of the unlicenced possession of illegal quantities of WEAPONS GRADE STUPIDITY in defiance of International Treaties
 

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

12 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Have you thought of becoming a creator?

12 hours ago, Unregistered said:

Are you assuming that I'm not?

That would be a mistake.

Ah, seems I was right when I assumed you ran some business making and selling unpopular/unsupported stuff, and are now whining because you are not making as much money as you feel you are ENTITLED to...

Thanks for taking them to task. I was on their side until their rude response to my question.

[Unregistered]

And here come the trolls. This is why the community is shrinking, while the greed is increasing. People like this make it impossible to have a point, because they'd rather spread salt rather than self-reflect. This is nothing but baseless deferment spewed forth in rapid fire succession in the hopes that it will cause people to laugh, and handwave the whole thing away. Unfortunately, progress doesn't abide this unstable, and inarticulate bullying.

 

Further, your time would be better spent actually working in a profession, rather than spending all day dissecting and analyzing someone else's post just to be pedantic on the internet. If you can assume you know everything about me, there is nothing to stop me from doing the same. Move out of your mother's basement, troll.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Unregistered

[Klytyna]

3 minutes ago, Unregistered said:

And here come the trolls.

As I said... Entitlement syndrome... You post a clueless fact free self important self enetitled bigoted rant, and when anyone DARES to disagree with your clueless rubbish, scream that you are being trolled.

Grow up, stop whining, if your 'ethno-pretentious' bodies are so fantastic, they will sell more and establish a market share worth creating for, if not, bad luck.

In addition, claiming that you have spent 15 years creating for the IDTech 3 engine (quake) is hardly a qualification for creatng fitted mesh in SL

You DEMAND a "fair and unbiased market" and deemand that this should be achieved by creating a regulatory body to ensure that it's "fair and unbiased" ONLY for you and other self important self entitled asshats like you, and not "Fair and unbiased" for creators who have, historically,  done better than you.

There is a word for that...

Hypocrisy...
 

[Unregistered]

And I'm sure you feel really comfortable walking down the street in Kuala Lumpur, giving your money to a street vendor for an unregulated pair of headphones that will probably not electrocute you the moment you plug them in.

Unregulated is better because unregulated is better.

Your circular argument is so small it doesn't have space in the middle.

[Klytyna]

9 minutes ago, Unregistered said:

And I'm sure you feel really comfortable walking down the street in Kuala Lumpur, giving your money to a street vendor for an unregulated pair of headphones that will probably not electrocute you the moment you plug them in.

Unregulated is better because unregulated is better.

Your circular argument is so small it doesn't have space in the middle.

Another classic display of that Weapons Grade contraband...

I'm British, I live in a country where Comsumer Rights and Trading standards are NORMAL, and I personally find the whole concept of unregulated Free market Fallacy Anarcho Capitalism Uber Alles, not only repellant but counter productive. However, This is SL, SL is owned by and run by Yanbks, and Yanks are collectively as a nation, utterly insane when it comes to this sort of thing.

If you are going to attempt to insulkt me with fraudulent claims about my position on free markets, try basing your insult on something I ACTUALLY said rather than your clueless self important self entitled  delusions that anyone who disagrees with any part of your worthless crap is some kind of Ayn Rand worshiping Free Market Fallacy Cultist.

We do have one of those on the forums, she regularly refers to me as some kind of Techno-Libtard Commie Loving Dempublican Voting Enemy of Business.

You'd know that if you had been paying attention instead of concentrating on an insane campaign to get legislation to stop people making clothes for the Maitreya Lara...

Yes, I DID read the insane rant on your damn profile...

The one that makes it abundantly clear that your "problem" isn't with gacha, it's with the fact that Lara is a more popular body that whatever you choose to wear, and that this WHOLE thread of yours constitutes a covert attack on a body vendor not on the gacha makers or resellers.

Allow me to quote your profile...

https://my.secondlife.com/unregistered#about_tab 

"You know what I want for SL right now? I want a young up and coming store owner to take the hit and make clothes exclusively for any body other than Lara.

You are ****ing up SL and making it single-bodied samey. Yes. You. Stop buying exclusives. 

Be different"

...

I'd take your rant more seriously if your profile picture in any way suggested your avatar WAS noticably "different"
 

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I'm so glad you have decided I am not a creator.

So, if you can make mesh, if you know how to use Blender to make clothing for your non-popular avatar, damned welll do it and stop asking the Lab to enforce some pathetic rule that clothing creators MUST make it for every body under the sun.

You cannot force people to make things for your body.

And if you are unable or unwilling to make it yourself, then convince people that the body you choose is worth trying. If they agree then the numbers will grow and it might become financially worthwhile making things for it.

But frankly, if 30 people use a body, and something is L$250, then you make a total of L$7500 for the 40 hours or so of rigging time. Thats US$2 an hour. Slave wages.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Tazzie Tuque]

OMG! this has turned into a mud slinging contest..  I have been here 12 and a half years,  I do have a business in fashion in SL..  and as I see it no amount of whining will change the fact that:

Maitreya Lara body is POPULAR because it is GOOD, and if clothes makers make stuff for that body it is because so many ladies use it.. (smart business)..  if other bodies were as popular then clothes would be being made for them too.  In my experience there are 3 GOOD body makers and MOST clothing makers for women,  make for all three at the very least..  

BUT and I stress this!  SL is a place where there is always equal opportunity for anyone to make what they want and what they like and sell it..  period..  nowhere, does it say to be in business in fashion "thou shalt.. this or that"..  It is NOT LL's fault that certain items are not made in SL,  the simple answer to that is .. no one has done it .. yet!  And LL is not about to go searching for folks to do it, nor should they be expected to make a policy to govern our freedom to create what we want..  or dictate what we should or should not be making (all within their TOS agreement of course).

Just give it up Unregistered you are not gaining any favour here, and those whom you say this is targeted for have better things to do than read this much less act on it.

[Love Zhaoying]

I thought the biggest recurring problems in SL fashion were:

- No demo

- Can’t find matching skins

- Not enough clothes for some bodies 

- Poorly-fitting mesh clothing

- Appliers/HUDS that stop working

- Appearing naked to everyone but you

- Appearing as a cloud 

- Appearing as a jelly baby to everyone

- Bought as a gift but no-Trans

- Outfits borked/can’t figure out how to use outfits

- Deleting no-copy worn item from outfit instead of link to it 

- No place to change in privacy 

- “Wardrobe Malfunctions”

[Jeny Howlett]

About gacha. The creators can set the odds. Some creators set them fairly , some set lower than 1%. The key is to avoid greedy store owner gachas. I have a list who i avoid. Learned the lesson after wasting 8k on a gacha and not getting a single RARE. You will say my luck was bad. Yes. But i believe this certain machine was rigged. I never had such problems with other gacha machines. Shop smart!

Edited March 7, 2018 by Jeny Howlett

[Unregistered]

You guys are so passionate about slapping me down, it sounds like you're afraid my post will become well received.

I like that the one that started out making illogical assumptions and fallacies as their entire post now is trying to flip back on me and take umbrage because they received a taste of their own medicine and didn't enjoy the outcome.

[Love Zhaoying]

How DARE someone disagree with you. I am SHOCKED! Shocked, I tell you! 

[Unregistered]

I don't have a problem with disagreements that are well thought out, but when it's just "This isn't a problem because it isn't a problem." It's pretty obnoxious, really. Sign of the state of things, as many have shared with me directly.

[MoiraKathleen]

I'm just confused over how regulation or oversight would address what bodies creators choose to support in their clothing offerings.   I think that people are going to create things that they enjoy or that they would want to use themselves or that they think will generate good sales for them and I don't see how that could fairly be changed and/or regulated.  You can't "make" creators or designers produce items that may not be profitable or may not have much market share.  Creators and designers can choose to do that if they want, so you would need to figure out how to influence creators to make that change. 

Gachas have had opposition since their inception, yet that has not been enough to either turn consumers against them or turn creators from putting them out. I don't consider it gambling, as you do always receive one of the items from the advertised set. 

As you are a content creator, have you considered making full-perm clothing templates for some of the other non-top mesh bodies?  I've noticed a number of stores which use a lot of the full-perm templates, so it seems like more templates available for some of the other non-top bodies might help get more diversity in the amount of clothing created for other bodies.  I'm sure more diversity in template clothing styles would be appreciated as well.  I know that I often am not a fan of some of the current fashionable styles of clothing, but the good thing is that fashions do change over time. 

Events do seem to be a way to get more notice and attention.  Perhaps you could work with other creators to sponsor a periodic event that showcases bodies, skins, hair and clothing with an emphasis on ethnic diversity (and with no gacha machines allowed). 

 

[Janet Voxel]

I think it’s a good topic. A little like trying to plug a leaky ***** with your fingers buuuuut....it’s a nice change of pace.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

16 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m sorry, I almost warned Callum after he posted, as I already made a similar mistake and you called me out. 

Oh I have no problem calling them out. 

16 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I'm so glad you have decided I am not a creator. Genuinely so. It means I can disregard this, as it seems you clutch the misconception that people who ask for equality have no experience as content creators. That because I beg for fairness and equality means I insist upon servitude. This is ridiculous, and was already addressed in the thread. I have worked in the Quake Engine for over 15 years. I know all about its capabilities, and its applications for SL. I have scripted Python, C++ and Java for ten. I have several active listings on the MP which sell well.

But that is all tangential to the point. This should have never even been doubled down on.

Unregistered Resident is NOT a creator. She does not have anything in her profile to suggest she is one. She has an empty MP store. You may have an older account that is a merchant in SL, but the one you are using here does not. I truly despise anyone who comes here and bitches and whines about merchants and how they run their businesses on an alt to hide THEIR business. Grow a set and post here with your actual merchant account or stop saying you are one. 

As to the point of your rant.. Sod off. If i want to create for ONE mesh body i will. Personally, i create for almost all of them, but that is MY decision, not yours to make. 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Unregistered Resident is NOT a creator. She does not have anything in her profile to suggest she is one. She has an empty MP store.

Is she a sock puppet?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

51 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is she a sock puppet?

[Callum Meriman]

6 hours ago, Unregistered said:

I don't have a problem with disagreements that are well thought out, but when it's just "This isn't a problem because it isn't a problem." It's pretty obnoxious, really. Sign of the state of things, as many have shared with me directly.

I think the more obnoxious side of it is you are requesting people to be forced to do something they don't want to do.

It was you who said there needed to be a regulation so that creators were forced to make things for other bodies.

That's the only obnoxious thing, and what certainly riled me.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Callum Meriman
Typing mistakes, such a demand gets my goat.

[Blush Bravin]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:50 AM, Unregistered said:

(This message is intended for LL's orgchart and people who are actually in a position to work on it. Please no deferments or fashion suggestions.)

Being a creator of Maitreya only bento jewelry, I suppose I'm in "a position to work on it."

Hello,

I am writing this as a concerned citizen of SL for 9 years now. I am seeing a disturbing trend of progression toward a more and more greedy/gacha form of marketing amongst the build community, and as it stands, the current market structure would appear to be unsustainable.

It has been become more and more controversial over the last year or so, that gacha schemes are pushing in the direction of preying upon the same neural pathways as gambling, and this is seen to be manifesting in the Second Life community as a whole.

We have gone from having pretty much no presence of gacha schemes in SL,  to a large percentage of lindens changing hands coming from these machines in a 3 year span of time. As they evolve, the win mechanics are not shared with the public and are manipulated without the payer being informed. At any given moment, the chance for the desired item could be zero, and they would not know it.

Not to mention that SL is a multi-cultural community in which gambling is forbidden in some cultures, and some of those cultures, specifically those of Muslim origin see gacha schemes as gambling. For those people these items are unobtainable except by second hand unregulated gouge sales on the Marketplace.

I do own a line of gacha machines but have yet to use one. Why? Because I don't like the pressure of participating in events. Are gachas evil? Seriously? It's a game you are free to play or ignore. Personally I love shopping the marketplace for the gachas I'd like to have. I've picked up many items for less than the price of one pull. Do I buy the rares there? Of course not. So gachas are a bargain if you have your sense about you. So yes, you can take full advantage (minus rares) of gachas without gambling by making a list of gacha items you want and then finding them for a good price in the marketplace. 

As a second point of note, it seems that the hard work of Bento creators, to develop new items for compatible bodies has been reduced down to creators choosing one body to build for, and then pleading lack of time for all others. This results in a lack of fashion support for many bodies, as this results in a feedback loop of creators creating a larger same-y marketshare of body support, and ignoring all others with other bodies. As the market then becomes more homogenous, creativity, and uniqueness of avatar appearances go by the wayside.

Up until the release of bento I made jewelry for both Slink and Maitreya hands and feet. I made the choice, yes, it's my choice, to update some of my inventory to bento for Maitreya and decided not to update for Slink. Why? Because 80 to 85% of my sales come from the jewelry I make for Maitreya. It's not worth my time to update for Slink and I certainly have no desire to start making jewelry for any other body. 

THIS ESPECIALLY AFFECTS ETHNIC AVATARS.

Please, someone within the regulatory body of SL, look into this. I'm not sure what the solution is. But you have to make it so everyone can still enjoy SL.

Linden Lab did this a long time ago. It's called a system body. Don't like what's available for your mesh body, then switch to a body that is more widely supported or go back to system. Or do like I've done my whole life in SL. I made stockings and pantyhose because I couldn't find any I liked. Did I go complaining to the creators? No, I got my butt up and learned how to make what I wanted. I made toe rings for my very first pair of Slink feet because I couldn't find any. Again, I didn't go demanding that SL jewelers create something because I wanted it and it wasn't available. And that is the story of my creator life here in SL. If I want something and it's not available I either learn how to make it myself or go without. In the end, creating those things I couldn't find has paid for my SL for years, paid for my last three computers and so forth. 

Self-reliance is a virtue, whining and pointing fingers because you're not getting your way is annoying.

I see all of these MAITREYA EXCLUSIVE events popping up, and it's making it impossible for me to find new things to wear. This is only the middle stage of this homogenization, and it will continue to advance until there is little variety in body choice in SL. (Yes I own a Maitreya body. No, I do not want to look like you.)

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

[Magnek Fang]

Hoo boy:

Point the First: I can't exactly complain about gatchas in general. These days, they're about the only thing keeping a store inworld. See, the trick to gatchas is not to look for a specific thing. Rather, choose gatchas where you will be happy with the first thing that pops out, especially those that give vouchers for a copy/mod item, or some other way to get a copy/mod version of the item. For everything else, yard sales. And I don't trust no-copy rezables, that is a recipe for losing the damn thing.

Point the second: I won't target a specific creator, but I'm not happy with the general abandonment of the system body. I respect people's desires to dress thier own way, but when I see things like human heads costing as much as a entire furry avatar (if not more), and so many creators basing thier entire incomes on the efforts of one person who could well die or otherwise suffer a ill stroke of luck that takes them off SL for good is a bit disconcerting. I'm just glad that there's no male equivalent to the Maitreya (that is, a mesh body that practically has a monopoly on the human look).

[Janet Voxel]

The op is probably long gone. It probably would’ve been constructive to point out a doing a blog about this might’ve been a better way to go.

I know there are some gatcha machines where the odds are stacked against you. I just avoid those creators’ gatcha machines. Some people might not notice the discrepancy.  There are also gatchas where you can get really good deals, such as an entire mesh head and skins with just a couple 100L pulls. A blog might help with that.

I still think the OP had some valid points. Just kinda....went about it the wrong way.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

probably would’ve been constructive to point out a doing a blog about this might’ve been a better way to go.

This is so much more fun than a blog. If we all had blogs, we’d all have to follow each other’s blogs, register to conment, etc. Here, we get one big sloppy happy mess!

Edited March 9, 2018 by Love Zhaoying