Lack of support

[Phil Deakins]

51 minutes ago, Sharie Criss said:

Anyone remember the days when SL had over 125,000 online residents during busy times?

Nope. The most I remember was a little over 90k concurrent accounts, and that was very brief. That's the high number that was talked about in the forum at the time. Concurrency was a common topic. It was normally in the 80ks at that time. And that was at a time when traffic bots were allowed, so a very significant percentage of those were bots, not people. The number of people would have been a lot lower than that.

[Ayesha Askham]

I concur with Phil here, the most I ever recall seeing online was 94K back in 2009 I think it was, and there were probably 25-30K bots on there.  As to LL's pathological inability to understand or service adequately its own business, that is legendary.

By the way is this forum grinding slowly for everyone at the moment? SL seems OK it is just this forum.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Ayesha Askham
additional text

[Oz Linden]

9 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Honestly, every Linden, from Ebbe down the Janitor should be required to login to both worlds for an office hour.

I've been doing that for most of 8 years... feel free to come by Open Development User Group

and we've got other User Groups

Edited March 7, 2018 by Oz Linden

[Chic Aeon]

10 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nope. The most I remember was a little over 90k concurrent accounts, and that was very brief. That's the high number that was talked about in the forum at the time. Concurrency was a common topic. It was normally in the 80ks at that time. And that was at a time when traffic bots were allowed, so a very significant percentage of those were bots, not people. The number of people would have been a lot lower than that.

Agreed about the top concurrency being around 90,000. 

MEANWHILE while I agree that non-US folks should certainly get the same service as the US folks (meaning "someone" manning the ship at night) the complaints about nothing working are not all The Lab's fault.

If you ever go over to the MESH forum you will see long, long discussions about how poorly made user content is dominating the grid. This isn't stuff from five years ago, this is now. A good portion of creators (including the most well-known) are NOT making game assets, but heavy mesh with way too many textures. The new Firestorm tools let both builders and consumers see this. 

My full sim builds as well as my mainland shop run VERY SMOOTHLY with rarely any issues (we'll leave the asset database out of this discussion as that has nothing to do with "lag").  So bunching one argument with another is kind of unfair IMHO.

AND, I was thinking today that my mesh head and body have been stable with no disappearing vertices in WELL over a month. That is a big improvement. It is the very same body and head, so the changes are somewhere else. It COULD of course be the new Firestorm viewer, I guess. Either way there are improvements around if you look for them. 

Just saying. 

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, Oz Linden said:

I've been doing that for most of 8 years... feel free to come by Open Development User Group

and we've got other User Groups

I wish, sadly 3am thanks to timezones.

But yes, you are one of the great few who has always held office hours, thank you for that.

I just have a long term dream of each Linden being required to be in world to mix with the customers, and to even adopt a general mainland Sim (one of the mostly abandoned ones) as a play space.

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

MEANWHILE while I agree that non-US folks should certainly get the same service as the US folks (meaning "someone" manning the ship at night) the complaints about nothing working are not all The Lab's fault.

Well, in my case, and the OPs case, our regions went down. And now there is no concierge we had to just submit a ticket and wait for 18 hours.

That's the Lab's fault for the failure, and it's the Lab's fault for treating people outside the USA as second-class.

[Chic Aeon]

27 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Well, in my case, and the OPs case, our regions went down. And now there is no concierge we had to just submit a ticket and wait for 18 hours.

That's the Lab's fault for the failure, and it's the Lab's fault for treating people outside the USA as second-class.

Not arguing that. But all the other things she added complaining about in her later posts were not part of this particular problem and cannot be ALL blamed on LL IMHO.  That is all I am saying. 

[Qie Niangao]

13 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

I just have a long term dream of each Linden being required to be in world to mix with the customers, and to even adopt a general mainland Sim (one of the mostly abandoned ones) as a play space.

Is it wrong of me to want this practice of regular Second Life usage to start with the Lindens working on Sansar? 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Qie Niangao

[bigmoe Whitfield]

was 88k and logins and other services tanked.  I've got the screenshot some place.

[Phil Deakins]

It was in the 80ks for some time, but it did tip over into the 90ks very briefly. Maybe only a day or two.

[Ayesha Askham]

Really this is just another instance of the same old Linden inattention to their communication channels, but I notice that the banner on the Grid Status page is still showing "Service Under Maintenance" some two days after the chat service maintenance was supposedly completed.  Maybe now there really is no-one on duty over the weekend, despite the apparently 24/7 nature of both SL and its Support function.

Yet another example of shoddy support and technical control.

[Sharie Criss]

On 3/7/2018 at 7:23 PM, Chic Aeon said:

Not arguing that. But all the other things she added complaining about in her later posts were not part of this particular problem and cannot be ALL blamed on LL IMHO.  That is all I am saying. 

Oh really? The fact that overnight the performance of my regions dropped like a stone is not LL's fault? Then who's fault is it? I'm not even talking "full of avatars" performance, but when the sim is empty after a restart. Over the years, I've worked hard to get rid of scripted items that perform badly, ensure that the majority of scripted items that I have control over operate efficiently, etc. My script count has dropped almost in half from where it was at the peak. During the time when my script count was significantly higher, I had script run times of 100% with a fair amount of spare time. My build has not significantly changed outside of converting a lot of old prim and sculpt items to mesh (which increased LI due to how things are calculated), yet now I NEVER have any spare time and my scripts struggle to run at more than 50%. FYI, I DID pay extra for the double prim region yet I'm only using about 15000 land impact now because there is no way it would handle me adding anything more at this point. In other words, I am unable to use the resources I am paying for. My other region which has been pretty much static for years ALSO saw a huge performance drop "overnight." Can you prove that LL did not do something that caused this performance drop? All the evidence I have as well as a LOT of anecdotal evidence from other region owners indicates that SOMETHING changed. What we don't know is WHAT changed. Code? Number of regions per physical server? Hard to say. 

The sim freezes that occur when avatars TP in and out are ABSOLUTELY LL's fault. Some code is running that causes this behavior. There are MANY bug reports about it (most just get closed as duplicates, and there has been ZERO action on the primary bugs in years. ) Feel free to browse the JIRA.

So yes, I'm upset. I'm paying a LOT and things are worse than ever. I think I have a RIGHT to be upset IF what all the evidence appears to indicate is true.

The fact that YOUR region isn't having any trouble is moot. Maybe it's mostly empty, has no traffic, hardly has any scripted items,  - whatever. Must be nice.

[Alwin Alcott]

8 minutes ago, Sharie Criss said:

Oh really? ....

 

So yes, I'm upset. I'm paying a LOT and things are worse than ever. I think I have a RIGHT to be upset IF what all the evidence appears to indicate is true.

The fact that YOUR region isn't having any trouble is moot. Maybe it's mostly empty, has no traffic, hardly has any scripted items,  - whatever. Must be nice.

if its really that bad, i don't judge that, i think you should think again and let those regions go. It's your money, not mine, not LL's. And your choice to accept or deny bad service.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Sharie Criss said:

Oh really? The fact that overnight the performance of my regions dropped like a stone is not LL's fault? Then who's fault is it? I'm not even talking "full of avatars" performance, but when the sim is empty after a restart. Over the years, I've worked hard to get rid of scripted items that perform badly, ensure that the majority of scripted items that I have control over operate efficiently, etc. My script count has dropped almost in half from where it was at the peak. During the time when my script count was significantly higher, I had script run times of 100% with a fair amount of spare time.

It depends on what you mean by "performance". Scripts haven't lagged sims in years, because all the scripts together in a sim have a finite amount of time per frame in which to run. If they don't get done in that time, they don't complete what they want to do. So scripts may perform badly when there are too many of them, but the sim doesn't lag.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

36 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

It depends on what you mean by "performance". Scripts haven't lagged sims in years, because all the scripts together in a sim have a finite amount of time per frame in which to run. If they don't get done in that time, they don't complete what they want to do. So scripts may perform badly when there are too many of them, but the sim doesn't lag.

I’ve seen some posts where, if available memory showed low, requesting region restart fixed some issues. Did anyone suggest that to the person you were responding to?

[Phil Deakins]

@Love Zhaoying Why are you asking me?

[Callum Meriman]

11 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

My build has not significantly changed outside of converting a lot of old prim and sculpt items to mesh (which increased LI due to how things are calculated), yet now I NEVER have any spare time and my scripts struggle to run at more than 50%.

...

My other region which has been pretty much static for years ALSO saw a huge performance drop "overnight." Can you prove that LL did not do something that caused this performance drop? All the evidence I have as well as a LOT of anecdotal evidence from other region owners indicates that SOMETHING changed. What we don't know is WHAT changed. Code? Number of regions per physical server? Hard to say. 

Owning a few regions myself - I don't think the number of regions per core has changed - you can see this from SL Grid Survey if you have been letting the bot in.

But what I have noticed is that if you are unlucky you can end up on the same server as a very busy event or club region - and that can be hell on virtual-earth. Network overloading I guess, as you stand in your own empty sim you see the same TP like pauses, without people there. That's a sick server, and it needs a ticket requesting your region is moved to a new server.

If you've not requested a server change it might be worth doing so. Possibly checking your regions page on SLGridSurvey first to see if there are any hints there - like sharing a club sim. That can take time if you've locked the bot out previously, and of course it can't be 100% because others on your same server lock the bot out too.

Script wise, dropping from 100% to 50% - I don't doubt you, but I don't see the same, although I know that can be hard to track down. I worked hard too to get 2 of my residential sims under the old 5ms floor, renters come in and mess that up hehe. The others though don't seem to have changed much.

I am sure you checked, but don't forget though that the EPS and % of scripts also includes your avatar's scripts (we normally appear at the top of the sorted list in region debug>scripts) so with the increase of mesh bodies and heads especially over the last six months you can only now trust that figure when the sim is empty and you are in a 100% alpha skin, with no attachments only. The load from heads was surprising for me, but I guess when you consider all the animations they play it can make sense.

I hope you find your problem! Consider requesting a server swap if you haven't - but record your current hostname, and try to gather some evidence so you can then see the pre/post states to see if that helps, or hinders (it hinders, then you request you are moved back, or to a third)

 

Edit: On scripts; what Phil says above is partially correct, they don't lag up the sim any more, they have a fixed slice and they can't exceed that. Trouble comes about if you have the full script window and then are also pushing the limits in other areas like avatars, less scripts than the maximum gives the avatars more of the frame - however you mention your region doesn't have so many avatars, so I am ruling that out here. Normal symptom of too many scripts - and 50% is that - isn't lag but only a far less minor issue of HUD buttons and object clicks sometimes not working reliably.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Phil Deakins]

11 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’ve seen some posts where, if available memory showed low, requesting region restart fixed some issues. Did anyone suggest that to the person you were responding to?

I replied to this, asking why you are asking me. You laughed, so I'll ask again...

I replied to the part of Sharie's post that was about scripts, and explained to her that scripts don't lag sims. You replied to my post with the one I quoted, so why did you ask me that question? You could have made it a general question, not aimed at any particular person, or you could have asked Sharie herself. But you asked me personally. Why?

Edited March 12, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I replied to this, asking why you are asking me. You laughed, so I'll ask again...

I replied to the part of Sharie's post that was about scripts, and explained to her that scripts don't lag sims. You replied to my post with the one I quoted, so why did you ask me that question??

Because I was too lazy to go back and read the thread, but you were actively responding to the OP so my response to you was a lazy “hail Mary” pass. In these threads, the OP usually stopped replying long ago, so I assumed asking them was a fool’s errand. Thank you for taking a tour of my logic, you can get your parking ticket validated at the front desk.

[Phil Deakins]

Then you ought to have written your post without quoting anyone. That's the most sensible thing to do, anyway, for a general question that isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

Incidentally, the OP (Sharie) posted the post I replied to just 1 hour before I replied, and only 2 hours before you asked the question, so she hadn't stopped replying "long ago". Her post was just 3 above yours, and on the same page of this short thread. That's some laziness you have there.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Then you ought to have written your post without quoting anyone. That's the most sensible thing to do, anyway, for a general question that isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

Incidentally, the OP (Sharie) posted the post I replied to just 1 hour before I replied, and only 2 hours before you asked the question, so she hadn't stopped replying "long ago". Her post was just 3 above yours, and on the same page of this short thread. That's some laziness you have there.

Well gee whiz Phil, your chastising me is taking all this effort! I should be chagrined and re-do my reply so maybe the OP notices it. Thanks for being such a good netizen! (No lion pic due to -1 for double chastisement.)

[Phil Deakins]

It's no effort, I assure you.

[Love Zhaoying]

@Sharie Criss, did you ever check your region’s available memory in debug settings? Perhaps if it is low, a simple region restart would provide some performance relief.

This post is dedicated to @Phil Deakins.

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

It's no effort, I assure you.

 

[Qie Niangao]

I'm not sure why this thread is still active to be honest. If the OP will post sim statistics we might be able to make some useful guesses, or better if we had region names where we could see what's happening in the field. Otherwise I'm gonna just assume this is b!tchin' for b!chin' sake, which is a fine entertainment for all, for about a page of posts, after which my ridicule itch kicks in.