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Encroachment on Robin Loop ?


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There's something strange at the point where Robin Loop crosses from Juanita to Grote. Vehicles get knocked off the road at the region crossing. There are some nearby encroachments involving a private parking lot, but I can't see the problem even in wireframe mode. Go to http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Juanita/150/15/85 and head southeast in the left lane of Robin Loop to see this. This may be new; I ride around Robin Loop regularly and haven't hit this before. I've tried different motorcycles and Firestorm versions, and it's the same every time. Logging out doesn't affect it. Even moving at very slow speed, the problem appears. It's a small bump, not a solid wall; going fast enough will get through it. That's the reverse of most region crossing problems.

Sinking at a region crossing is a general problem and well understood, but this is something else. The last time I hit something like this, someone had put an invisible prim across a road.

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10 hours ago, animats said:

This may be new; I ride around Robin Loop regularly and haven't hit this before.

It's certainly not new. Those two prims must have been there for as long as the Robin Loop has existed. They were laid down by Ben Linden - how long is it since he worked at LL???

They may have become dislocated recently though. They should have been flush with the road surface, not placed on top of it.

 

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Edited by ChinRey
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Yes, that's it. I'd been looking in wireframe, and they don't show there when "highlight transparent" is not on. Some mole was trying to patch the region crossing, but they didn't get it right.

One of my planned projects is to build an inspection truck which drives around and finds road problems like this. Then make it self-driving and log the results to a database.

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Don't be ridiculous, of course it's not. A prim that isn't even in the road, but only slightly over the Lindens' ridiculous messed-up rocks there really can't be said to be encroaching.

Anyone with normal common sense and good will -- actually Lindens themselves would likely "get it" here -- would see that. Only on the toxic forums could this wild distortion of reality occur.

Any and all trolls, like the OP, of course will feel free to AR this OMGODZORS ENCROACHMENT but I honestly don't care. The Lindens have never removed it. They tend not to remove things like this when they see they themselves have "issues" or when it really doesn't matter, like a bridge over Linden water as long as it doesn't interfere with boats.

I will simply keep putting it back and filing ticket after ticket with them as will many others who live around this area to get them to fix their road.

Of course one really big challenge they have is their selection of this type of road in the first place. Cobblestone roads are quaint and even over on the neighboring sims they look much better. Here they selected this god-awful lumpy mixture of rock/earth which is hobbling them and the road and traffic. Of course, they could always drop it just for this odd curve which is kind of a hairpin almost in places -- which they are stuck I suppose although one could consider a completely different layout. There's the issue of the slanted lots that are at odd angles to the road, as well.

One OBVIOUS thing the Lindens could do is simply drop this whole scheme with this curved road in that location, and their prims that don't curve, and their lumpy rocks and go another route that is in fact a straightaway -- and old railroad bed titled now "Linden Right of Way" which they seized as their own out of a resident's abandoned parcels years and years ago -- or at least what they "envision" along with their fanboyz as a railroad.

For that they'd have to give up their aborted "dream" of a railroad that no one asks for, no one needs, and which the Lindens themselves did not build, because they sold the land here, hello (I bought it from the person who got it off the auction; other neighbors of mind bought other parcels). The old land of the *resident's railroad* (it was never Linden land* was *sold by the Lindens on the auction*. People who endlessly mispresent this might want to come in world and pick up the fake history of this area from the flamingo over by Sikkima, and my actual history from the blue flamingo there by my property : )

We who actually live on those sims and actually own the property have asked for a pet walk or any other thing  -- yeah, shocking, imagine, but more people have pets and want to socialize with them than there are hobos who want to ride rail cars -- which of course exist in ABUNDANCE already on the Mainland without having to ruin more sims with them. A pet walk with water fountains for pets, areas where you could play with them, rezzing areas not for cars (which Lindens are always happy to provide as they love the load-testing spammers) but for pet toys or pet food. Shocking, shocking concept I imagine, going with the culture of MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THE PLATFORM instead of the tiny minorities in the cultures they feel more affinity with like hobos.

Or, if they hate pets, and I imagine they do, whatever cash it puts in their own coffers -- Gasp -- if they went on that 45 degree angle across that Linden "path" through Grote and then at right angles down to Electra, none of these problems would exist. Cars have had to turn 45% angles before, it won't kill them. That's how I'd do it. Put this mess on the Robin Loop there out of its misery, put the road in the right-angled area leading up to another crossroads, take out all the mangled prims and leave a field with picnic tables or whatever Moles feel they can do -- naturally the pet walk could go THERE too! Once you have good will instead of catering to tiny clamoring minorities.

BTW, if they need to achieve any widening or smoothing there, the Lindens could GASP AGAIN offer compensation to existing landlowners for their "takings". This would be like "eminent domain" in real life. Usually the government compensates you at least something when it has to take your land for a road easement, for example. I've never gotten the Lindens to even discuss this as it is completely outside their ideological scope.

And finally -- I know this is an UTTERLY WILD CONCEPT they could use not prims, but sculpties (I hate them, they look terrible) or even mesh. Lindens do have these newer things in road materials elsewhere. So they could create a new sculpty/mesh thing there that would curve better and maybe work better for vehicles to cross.

Certainly absolutely no vehicle in any way in any fashion is hampered by MY little ramp there -- how do I know that? Because all the live-long day, the driverless cars come through, spamming up our neighbourhood completely. There are buses in the air; boats in the air; those stupid little pods -- no one needs this. All day long those things drive through, annoying all of us who live there, sometimes crashing or getting stuck on lawns and needing removal. But we've already long since learned that the Lindens will never stop these nuisances as they love them for load tests and their own experiments with sim crossings.

Finally, let me note what is really happening with the OP's motorcycle -- he is tripping up on Ben Linden's and Eric Linden's invisible prims. Not anything from me anywhere. That's the exact story and we all get that if we know how roads and travel of vehicles work. Ben and Eric had to put that junk there because of their curves and mess-ups there. Whatever. They're long gone now, and newer Lindens could try to clean this up, but for that they need to a) drop their stalled "railroad dream" of more than a year ago that literally ended in mid-prim when Michael Linden left -- and he himself had ended it when he built it out in the bed there, put up a train engine and then suddenly realized that he would have to *cross Prokofy's land with it* to make it go along the road and b) put the road in the Linden Right of Way where it will not have to curve OR use other materials to make a curved road and get rid of all the mangled junk there. It would literally be less than an hour's work for a Mole.

And once again, despite all the bullying and harassment I've experienced from the hobos and their griefer pals, I will not be selling my land there so that these silly rail plans can go through. Oh, no, not when I and my neighbors who own land there had to endure YEARS of misery with this ugly high-rise rail bridge blotting the view of this lovely pond here and the sky around it. Hell, no. We got that ugly high rise despite my working with that resident RR dude, both giving him right-of-way and selling him land to run his RR through Slosser and such -- and for my troubles I got that ugly thing ruining the value of my land. I had to abandon two pieces of land there finally, they wouldn't sell. Fortunately when this resident RR failed and was abandoned, I got to buy back my land again and get some use of it.

Normal, peaceful, ordinary communities of people who want normal things like ponds and fishing and nice views really, really matter in SL and I will fight like hell for them because it is right and decent, not because I get any cash out of it, I don't. I refuse to allow tiny extremist communities of griefers, sandboxers, hobos etc. encroach on that when they already have entire sims of their own OR have no land or worst of all, have even abandoned their land and want to freeload on others. The Lindens could never see their way clear to zoning, something that could have been easily done simply by labelling sims and setting an example. They didn't wish to get in the governance business but they also created many many conflict drivers with their poor planning, i.e. having water in a land-locked pond go for sale to anyone, instead of making it Linden protected water and increasing the land's value and securing it against blight.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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You're a good example of the toxicity and insanity of the forums, Callum. Any normal person can see that the road is not obstructed. It isn't. The tiny squares where there might be a ramp TO GO ON TO THE LINDEN'S MESS OF A ROAD OFF PROPERTY WHICH YOU CAN'T OTHERWISE DRIVE OUT OF is not hampering traffic.

It is not the problem with the OP's motorcycle. How do I know? Because not only do I drive up and down on the road in cars, on motorcycles, on Megapuss cat but I see jillions of other people do this. You know, all those damn driverless cards. I also occasionally see normal people who sometimes stop and chat. Sometimes they might pick up one of my flamingos or milkshakes there -- every day I see activity here that shows people drive on this road fine, they enjoy the area here that I and others have built, and they get around the Linden mess here, you know? 

It really is a metaphor for all of Second Life. Truly it is. People finding ways to make do, building nice things, making it work despite the Lindens' rampant neglect, indifference and incompetence -- and harassment by their little friends in extremist grouplets -- and then people on the forums totally misrepresenting reality and taking the side of extremists.

Totally all of SL in a nutshell right there.

And entire road is open for anyone to drive through, and the ramp is only on the lumpy mess of rock/ground put there. But I've found that people like you literally cannot see reality, so hidebound are you with ideology. This is a VERY good example of it.

So what is the result of your shenanigans here, along with the OP's? Only harassment, and harassment driven by ideological concerns and who-knows-what agenda. It's a marvel to behold.

A dozen or more people live here and drive out of this area in vehicles, or on bikes or horses or on cats on to this hideously messed up Linden road with some ramps. That have been there for years. 

So through ideological fanboyz clamoring and agitation, you or other that bother to log into the world (most of you regs who heckle others on the forums don't even log in) my get feckless Lindens to remove these ramps, even as they don't fix their roads. The OP will still not get through here because his problem is invisiprims set by Lindens as Chin Rey pointed out, something you've failed to grasp yet.

My job is to document these idiocies as they happen.

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7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No, it's not about "me encroaching" big guy. It's not even about old Lindens.

Ummmmm....

errrrrrrrr.....

Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill - especially since this whole thing predates the Moles.

The physical bump in the road is caused by a prim linkset added by LL to smooth out the sim crossing but misplaced so it does exactly the opposite of what it was meant to do. That's it.

If Animats blamed it on you, he probably owes you an apology but if so, it should be done the same way as the accusation: on IM between the two of you.

 

Whether the encroaching is serious or not is something that LL will have to decide. I doubt they will mind though. Visually it doesn't look nearly as bad on the ground as it does on those aerial pictures and it doesn't block the traffic on the road in any way.

 

Edit - Callum posted at almost exactly the same time as me:

2 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

You don't see it as stealing 512M of land from the lab?


I can't speak for Prokofy of course but I certainly don't see it that way, especially not since the build in question is actually a public facility. It's more about tiing everything in the area together into a scene that works as a whole.

Edited by ChinRey
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10 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

You don't see it as stealing 512M of land from the lab?

No, it's not "stealing" land from the Lindens. It's putting a ramp over their mangled mess there so that I and my tenants can drive out of the Lindens land I paid for and pay tier on but can't use because of their mangle there.

What's really stolen here is the value of my land, which they've harassed and harried for years by not fixing their road and letting their crazy factions harass us with the railroad issue.

That's what is REALLY going on. I own land on 7 sims in that area, and pay tier for it. The Lindens in the three years since I bought that parcel and put a ramp in have never said a thing to me. It doesn't bother THEM. I've only taken their abandoned land in this area and put it under tier and given them money for abandoned land that they'd be happy to leave for YEARS AND YEARS and DO leave for YEARS AND YEARS so sorry, no sale, no success in your troll.

Do you own any land and do you do any development or anything creative at all in world or do you just think up harassment posts on the forums?

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13 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Ummmmm....

errrrrrrrr.....

Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill - especially since this whole thing predates the Moles.

The physical bump in the road is caused by a prim linkset added by LL to smooth out the sim crossing but misplaced so it does exactly the opposite of what it was meant to do. That's it.

If Animats blamed it on you, he probably owes you an apology but if so, it should be done the same way as the accusation: on IM between the two of you.

 

Whether the encroaching is serious or not is something that LL will have to decide. I doubt they will mind though. Visually it doesn't look nearly as bad on the ground as it does on those aerial pictures and it doesn't block the traffic on the road in any way.

I appreciate you trying to at least have a better take on this trolling here but honestly.

When people not only make false accusations against you in world AND put up a specious post like this to agitate and incite the whole community against you, you set the record straight, Chin. You don't have a situation like this on your land so it isn't your issue.

I actually don't buy your analysis of the "misplacement" as literally  A JILLION BILLION CARS HAVE GONE OVER THIS ROAD WITH NO PROBLEM with those prims as they are.

It just happened that the OP's motorcycle spit up here, maybe he slowed down to try to agitate and harass me for whatever reason and look the place over -- obviously he has 5000 sims he could go on with his motorcycle but has *chosen this one for a reason*. I invite you to be a tad more curious about this.

It doesn't look bad even from the aerial pictures, Chin. Do you see a road there? A road that is free of obstruction. The ramp goes on those crazy clumps of rock on the *shoulder* of the road, can you see that? Sure you can, as I don't think you are as blinkered as some of the people of bad will here. I know you generally have good will. So put it to practice and realize that this road is not encroached, that this tsumani was artificially created for who-knows-what-reason, and that the OP's motorcycle issues *may* be caused by the invisiprim or may merely be caused by the curve in the road but they are NOT cause by my ramps. And in any event *he need not drive here* with these problems when he literally has 5000 other sims to choose from.

 

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3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Theresa Tennyson curls up in her chair, sips slowly at her coffee, pulls the blanket a bit closer and watches the fireworks over the sea from the comfort of her home.

Ahhh.... when the right two systems collide, you get... the perfect storm...

Don't forget the requisite click-bait/over the top titled blog post entry that attempts to blame the other party for their own overreaction.

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@Theresa Tennyson Do you ever log on? You might try driving a vehicle over this area to see the actualities of it. 

PS Again, the OP contacted me in world and informed me as if he were a Linden or the police what I must do with my prims. He blamed me wrongfully for his problems. He then went on the forums and went further with this, merely cleverly not naming me as this is the forums "law". Others told him that there might be other reasons for his problems -- while this is a guy who claims he can script self-driving cars, he couldn't turn on "highlight transparency" OR look at the prims *actually in the road*.

Then, he claimed that his own vehicle problems were caused by a) my ramp and then conceded b) maybe it was the old Lindens' invisible prims.

Neither of these claims are established as fact, because it's only his vehicle that had this problem, on a road where zillions of vehicles including gadjillion driverless cars which are a TOTAL nuisance have traversed freely.

Let me think: if I were the one claiming some travel problems across this patch, you know EXACTLY what you'd do, Theresa, you'd say there were gadzillion billion cars that went over this road without a problem as they have in the 10 years that Ben Lindens placed this prims and the more than 3 years I've been forced to put a ramp to get over the Lindens' insanely broken landscaping and road here.

Then he threatened to me to create a police car that would drive around finding road faults that he would log -- as if we needed one more driverless vehicle.

Why haven't the Lindens just fixed their road? Well, perhaps they will, but the problem is they always have half-formed aborted other plans here and can't justify fixing it when they may replace the entire thing with a witless railroad no one needs.

I've summarized the problems here accurately; you haven't.

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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Prok does often take many comments as personal attacks, regardless of the intent, and quickly attacks backs.  Could be because he does often get persecuted inworld, but I'm not sure that is really good justification for such behavior. 

The reasoning is far, far simpler: Anyone who does not blindly agree with that one's tirades is automatically a griefer (among other things) and the only opinion that matters to that one is their own. Heaven forbid anyone else have a differing opinion - why, everything that one says/types is nothing more than The One True Gospel after all!

ETA: Notice also (showcased in the blog post Theresa mentioned) that they took the time to examine both Animats profile and groups. This is another tactic that gets used often enough: Looking for any of the tings they find disagreeable to have an excuse to be abusive.

Edited by Solar Legion
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Robin Loop clearly had a lot of Linden and mole effort put into making the road work well. Every region crossing has a patch to prevent sinking.  The ones for ordinary region crossings seem to be OK. The loop has three double region crossings. All three are a little off, enough to kick light vehicles around. Here are the other two.

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Neumogen (8,246). Four-region intersection just left of the road Just enough of a bump in the patch prims to knock a bike a little off course.

 

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Oslar (15,249). This four-way region crossing has some very thin patch prims.

The patch prims are both thin and not all in the same plane, so getting caught between them, or with them inside an avatar or vehicle, is possible. Then you're stuck in the ground.

Virtual worlds do need occasional pothole repair.

(I look at this so closely because I'm debugging various region crossing fixes. Some are in the viewer, some are in the bike, and some are in an attachment. When something goes wrong, I have to figure out exactly what happened, because it may be a bug in my own code.)

Edited by animats
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Another minor issue on Robin Loop - rocks in the road.bumpinroad.thumb.png.b8713d16db31917f5adab6a0355b81a4.png

Lida (212,244). Those green rocks in the road are a Linden "Undergrowth" object, and they're solid. Hit them and go flying. The cobblestones, moss, and grass are just decorative, but those few rocks are solid, like the ones at the side of the road.

I notice road problems because my "quixotic" effort to improve region crossings has been quite successful. My bikes go straight when they're supposed to, including across region boundaries. When they don't, there's a road problem.

I'm running a modified viewer with my region crossing fixes (now in Firestorm development version 5.0.12.53149, coming soon to a beta version) and a bike with some scripting to keep the camera aligned through fast region crossings. No more "rubber banding". No more strange twisting into the ground or flying into the air at region crossings. No more camera getting out of line with the bike. I no longer experience most of the problems other SL users have at region crossings. I can just ride fast. It's relaxing when things don't go nuts at every region crossing.

Despite what some people have said, SL is perfectly capable of supporting fast movement. There are just some bugs that had to be fixed.

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5 hours ago, animats said:

The cobblestones, moss, and grass are just decorative ...

Or they may be "warning signs", telling people not to expect high speed travel on this road. ;)

Except of course this is not unique to the Robin Loop or to the cobblestone textures roads. Most roads built by Lindens and many built by Moles have similar issues. I'm not sure if it's because they were in a hurry when they made the roads or because things have changed over time. Most of the Linden Roads date back to a tiem when prim drift was a serious issue and I do notice that the patches of system ground sticking up through the road at Widnermere, Coniston and Langdale often shift when I change the landscape around the road. Then again, the road at Langdale was made in 2013, logn after the otehrs, and it still has the same problems and it ahd them rigth from the start.

 

6 hours ago, animats said:

Despite what some people have said, SL is perfectly capable of supporting fast movement. There are just some bugs that had to be fixed.

Oh yes. But with no interest from Linden Lab, there's not mucb chance those bugs wil be fixed.

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19 hours ago, animats said:

Virtual worlds do need occasional pothole repair.

I wish the roads in my RL hometown would get occasional pothole repair. Compared to those, Linden roads are super smooth, and best of all, if if you fly off the road, you won't get hurt as much as on RL roads.

Actually, for me it's part of the fun of driving on the SL mainlands. Staying on the road even with these obstacles in place. :SwingingFriends:

Edited by arton Rotaru
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It's possible to work around bad roads with good vehicle design.

boathullveh.thumb.png.600cb7f757b6f43265589ec68258f360.png

Murasaki's dune buggy. The translucent red is an invisible prim able to slide over obstacles as high as the wheels. It looks good doing it, too, because the wheels have a simulated suspension; they move up and down to maintain ground contact. One of the better off-road vehicles in SL. Murasaki's shop is in Burns on Robin Loop, and there's a demo rezzer, so those vehicles get run on Robin Loop frequently.

myukimotorcycle.png.42d6d5e72a9e034d6d54f5d8f41d5b1c.png

Murasaki's motorcycle. Now this is clever. A motorcycle doesn't have a wide base, so you can't give it a boat-hull transparent prim. This vehicle rides on two knife-edged convex prims along the vehicle centerline. Note how the front one doesn't follow the wheel. The curve radius of that invisible prim is maybe 2m, or about 4x the wheel radius. It's like having a giant front wheel which can easily get over small obstacles. It's totally unstable in roll from a pure physics perspective, but the SL physics system's vehicle settings force it to stay upright. Most SL vehicles have a much less sophisticated ground contact model. This is good engineering.

Both of these vehicles are much better behaved on rough roads than most SL vehicles. They'll all cruise Robin Loop at speed with no problems.

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  • Moderators

The Governance Team was dispatched earlier to fix the patch, smooth out some of the cracks, flatten out some of the terraforming, and remove some encroaching objects. Because the issue is resolved, and this thread has gotten very heated, I'm going to lock it.

In the future, please report this type of issue using our in-world Abuse Reporting system. That is the best way to get eyes on it.

Edited by Jagix Linden
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