SL should stop banning people

[soxley]

Stalking is a non-issue? Tell that to this man. http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5650591&page=1

OK, we should ban freezers because every now and then some idiot traps themself in one.

I'm an admin in an RP sim and we had a persistent griefer. We reported him. He did keep coming back with more stuff, some of which LL had to come and help us clear up since we couldn't get on the sim. He's been permabanned and, because he was using computers where he worked and it was reported to them, he lost his RL job.

You could have handled this in less than 5 minutes by adjusting your land settings. And please, don't call me a troll or ignorant noob, because I've been in charge of land and it was easily done.

Somebody losing their RL job over some (ultimately inconsequential) foolishness in SL is insane, though. I sincerely hope you don't feel good about that.

 

[Aethelwine]

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soxley wrote:

 

You could have handled this in less than 5 minutes by adjusting your land settings. And please, don't call me a troll or ignorant noob, because I've been in charge of land and it was easily done.

Somebody losing their RL job over some (ultimately inconsequential) foolishness in SL is insane, though. I sincerely hope you don't feel good about that.

 

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It depends what the sim is being used for, if the sim requires rezzing to function as you want it to, for example a sim for vehicles or where weapons are used, then stopping them griefing also stops the sim from functioning the way it is intended.

The only solution is for the Lindens to ban them, or you are allowing one antisocial person to waste the investment in the sim. The only recourse is to perma ban all their accounts whether it has money on it or not. It is daft to complain they have left no other option for dealing with them.

No need to feel good or bad about a griefer losing their job they brought it on themselves.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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soxley wrote:

I'm an admin in an RP sim and we had a persistent griefer. We reported him. He did keep coming back with more stuff, some of which LL had to come and help us clear up since we couldn't get on the sim. He's been permabanned and, because he was using computers where he worked and it was reported to them, he lost his RL job.

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Wait... he was playing a video game with a work computer at work and his job was NOT to play that game?

That kind of right there says the person should have been fired...

 

[Rhonda Huntress]

So what did you get banned for, Sox?

[Phil Deakins]

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soxley wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

That's a lot of "

what if

"s, Kelli, so I'll add another. What if soxley's statement is just a wind-up, just for the fun of it? It's so utterly ridiuclous that it must be.

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If you think this is trolling, you should see my next post.

Too cynical, jaded and uninterested to troll people, tbh.  Just my opinion.

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Ok, so you're being perfectly serious. You are a voice in the wilderness - on your own, without anyone to share your opinion. Enjoy

[Bobbie Faulds]

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soxley wrote:

Stalking is a non-issue? Tell that to this man. 

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5650591&page=1

OK, we should ban freezers because every now and then some idiot traps themself in one.

I'm an admin in an RP sim and we had a persistent griefer. We reported him. He did keep coming back with more stuff, some of which LL had to come and help us clear up since we couldn't get on the sim. He's been permabanned and, because he was using computers where he worked and it was reported to them, he lost his RL job.

You could have handled this in less than 5 minutes by adjusting your land settings. And please, don't call me a troll or ignorant noob, because I've been in charge of land and it was easily done.

Somebody losing their RL job over some (ultimately inconsequential) foolishness in SL is insane, though. I sincerely hope you don't feel good about that.

 

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The sim has to have build and script options on since we use a combat meter and guns. So rez rights have to be on so the bullets rez out. When we get a griefer, we turn off rezzing and scripts until we get rid of the griefer. Usually we just eject and ban them. But this particular griefer kept at it nightly with new alts for over a month. We had waves of replicating prims, the sim-blocking prim, the Afroman racial insult screamer...probably just about every griefer tool out there was used. He was a banned player and was out for revenge. He always attacked at about midnight SLT when he knew the Estate Managers would be in bed. We had 28 sims at the time and he would set up time delays so that all the griefer tools would hit the sims all at the same time. We had sims crashing nightly.  As fast as we banned the alts, he'd be back. He worked in an IT dept overnight when no one else was around and would set up, grief us, then log off. LL got involved because of the problems the sim crashes were causing with their servers. From what I understand, he was MAC banned and lost several MILLION Lindens on those accounts (yes, he obviously had more RL money than sense). His wife got fed up and divorced him and got all his computers in the divorce.

I'm so glad you think griefing is inconsequential. It's rude and obviously aimed at disrupting other people's fun. It's another form of trolling, basically. SL isn't a free-for-all and does have rules. 

[Phil Deakins]

@soxley.

I've just read Bobbie's post and, presumably so have you. Do you think that person should not have been banned from SL?, or do you continue to insist that users can deal with it?

I'd like an answer please.

[soxley]

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Rhonda Huntress wrote:

So what did you get banned for, Sox?

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I was wondering when someone was going to ask this

For the record (and forum mods, do feel free to check my IP against LL's records), my main and six alts have never been banned.

Also, I was never a member of, or affiliated with, Woodbury. FWIW, I met one of the 'leading lights' of WU back in, dunno, 2009?, and thought they were a complete ****head and their sim reeked of desperation. But then I never found chan culture funny. Doesn't mean I thought they deserved to be banned.

[soxley]

Replying to you (and Phil, since he demands I answer you)

1) When you and the other admins 'would be in bed', didn't you think to turn scripts off? (presuming you're in UK?)

2) If not, and if you had a transatlantic following, why didn't you employ a US-based mod/ some US-based mods to cover the hours you couldn't be inworld?

3) Knowing that he had set up time delays, why not do a patrol of the 28 sims and remove any objects not deeded to group in advance of the expected 'grief time'?

4) If he was generating multiple accounts from scratch, why not set up a time restriction for newcomers (say 15 days)? You can override this manually for select individuals, you know.

From what I understand, he was MAC banned and lost several MILLION Lindens on those accounts (yes, he obviously had more RL money than sense). His wife got fed up and divorced him and got all his computers in the divorce.

With all respect, I doubt LL would have told you this if they'd banned him, and I don't understand how you'd have obtained this information unless it had been on national news, so excuse me for being a bit sceptical

I'm so glad you think griefing is inconsequential.

I don't. I'm arguing that you have the tools to change things, but simply can't be bothered to use them. And in such a climate, people can AR all sorts of ludicrous things that just waste LL's time.

 

 

[Dresden]

Soxley, sweety... you're obviously too stupid to understand the dire consequences of that which you so foolishly request.

...Dres

[soxley]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

That kind of right there says the person should have been fired...

 

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Maybe I'm just a snivelling liberal hippy, but I wouldn't wish unemployment on anyone. Maybe he did deserve it - I'm not his boss, but I wouldn't gloat about it.

[soxley]

Why so? Explain - or was that just a half-assed put down?

[Pussycat Catnap]

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soxley wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

That kind of right there says the person should have been fired...

 

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Maybe I'm just a snivelling liberal hippy, but I wouldn't wish unemployment on anyone. Maybe he did deserve it - I'm not his boss, but I wouldn't gloat about it.

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It is basically fraudulent or embellment of company resources to be using work computers to play video games in the office. Unless you job happens to be actually playing video games in the office - like a tester or somebody promoting a brand on a game platform like SL or Minecraft that encourages that.

Had this person been a government employee in most countries - that situation could in theory have resulted in criminal prosecution... though the offense is so small it would more likely just result in firing.

 

[Rhonda Huntress]



[soxley]

I totally agree with you, but again, that's between him and his employer. I would feel sorry for him all the same, as I don't believe childish behaviour in an inworld enviroment necessarily deserves dire RL consequences. Some places fire people for logging onto Facebook - harsh, maybe justified depending on the work contract, but I'd still feel sorry for anyone affected by such a RL decision.

 

[soxley]

So GD should just go back to asking why boats disappear on sim crossings, huh?

 

[Qie Niangao]

Somehow I'm reminded of an old Thurber cartoon: 

"All right, have it your way - you heard a sea lion bark."

Or something like that.

[Dresden]

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soxley wrote:

Why so? Explain - or was that just a half-assed put down?

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What you're suggesting is that anyone should be able to do anything they wish in SL with little to no consequences.  Therefore, enabling them to reek havok upon the general SL population which pays LLs bills... do you honestly think they'd continue paying to be part of a platform which would condone such anti-social actions as stalking, harassment, pedophilia, ect., etc...?  What you're suggesting is the very downfall of SL itself.  It's not my fault if you're too stupid to see that.

...Dres

[soxley]

"reek havok" :smileysad:

 such anti-social actions as stalking

If you're stalked on SL, you are AN IDIOT. A complete cretin who deserves nothing more. You are too lazy, ignorant and desperate to have the last word to click 'MUTE' and be done with it. And quite frankly, the fact you waste LL's time with such nonsense makes me realise why the Lab doesn't bother consulting the residents on most matters. Pathetic.

harrassment

Ditto above. You CAN'T be harrassed on SL unless you allow it to happen or get off on your victim status.

, pedophilia, ect., etc...? 

Insanely rare to find this inworld unless you deliberately go to child AV places, and if you do encounter it, report it to the police.

What you're suggesting is the very downfall of SL itself.

Because zillions of ARs about everything ranging from speedboats rezzed on front lawns to undelivered shoes have really freed up the Lab to concentrate on ironing out the technical glitches.

 

[Phil Deakins]

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soxley wrote:

Replying to you (and Phil, since he demands I answer you)

1) When you and the other admins 'would be in bed', didn't you think to turn scripts off? (presuming you're in UK?)

2) If not, and if you had a transatlantic following, why didn't you employ a US-based mod/ some US-based mods to cover the hours you couldn't be inworld?

3) Knowing that he had set up time delays, why not do a patrol of the 28 sims and remove any objects not deeded to group in advance of the expected 'grief time'?

4) If he was generating multiple accounts from scratch, why not set up a time restriction for newcomers (say 15 days)? You can override this manually for select individuals, you know.

From what I understand, he was MAC banned and lost several MILLION Lindens on those accounts (yes, he obviously had more RL money than sense). His wife got fed up and divorced him and got all his computers in the divorce.

With all respect, I doubt LL would have told you this if they'd banned him, and I don't understand how you'd have obtained this information unless it had been on national news, so excuse me for being a bit sceptical

I'm so glad you think griefing is inconsequential.

I don't. I'm arguing that you have the tools to change things, but simply can't be bothered to use them. And in such a climate, people can AR all sorts of ludicrous things that just waste LL's time.

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I actually asked you to answer me, not Bobbie. But I think your answer is clear. It is, 'no, he shouldn't have been banned'.

All I can say to that is, you live in a dreamworld where nonsense prevails and reality has no place. I'm sure you are happy standing alone in your dreamworld. I know that the rest of us, including LL, are happy that you stand alone there

[Perrie Juran]

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soxley wrote:

<snip>

Because zillions of ARs about everything ranging from speedboats rezzed on front lawns to undelivered shoes have really freed up the Lab to concentrate on ironing out the technical glitches.

 

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If you think that we would not agree that many of the AR's that LL recieves are nothing but foolish all I'll say is that we are not that stupid.

And as far as griefing and harrassment, etc are concerned when people come and 'complain' in this Forum that they are being 'troubled' we certainly stand by the maxim "mute and ignore," and in some instances  will encourage "AR."

But if someone is loging in with the sole intent of hindering peoples enjoyment of SL by doing things that like self replicating pornographic prims that consume a Sims resources then yes they should be banned. Bottom line is they are not contributing anything to SL and it is not our AR's that are wasting LL resources but the fact that we need LL's assitance in cleaning up their messes.

 

[Dresden]

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soxley wrote:

, pedophilia, ect., etc...?

 

Insanely rare to find this inworld unless you deliberately go to child AV places, and if you do encounter it, report it to the police.

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This alone confirms your ignorance (if not blatant stupidity).  Ageplay is not illegal in every jurisdiction.  But, even if it was, how would you know within which jurisdiction to report the person?  Let me answer that for you... you wouldn't... but LL might.  And because LL has oversight of the platform they created, they've the ability to police these sorts of things... not you, not sim owners, not fellow SL users, not even your local police have that ability.

Your thesis here is based upon LL being unable to get rid of troublemakers... your resolution seems to be for everyone to fend for themselves.  Why shouldn't LL be able to rid their own platform of trouble?  Why shouldn't they get rid of someone that only causes harm to their users?  Doesn't LL have an obligation to ensure the safety and well-being of their own user base?

...Dres

[Bobbie Faulds]

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soxley wrote:

Replying to you (and Phil, since he demands I answer you)

1) When you and the other admins 'would be in bed', didn't you think to turn scripts off? (presuming you're in UK?)

I'm in the US but turning off scripts and rezzing would have meant those that were on couldn't use the meter or their weapons. We have people from all over the world in many time zones, so not fun for them, right?

2) If not, and if you had a transatlantic following, why didn't you employ a US-based mod/ some US-based mods to cover the hours you couldn't be inworld?

We have mods that were on most hours but sims only allow 10 EM's per sim so not all admins could be EM's.

3) Knowing that he had set up time delays, why not do a patrol of the 28 sims and remove any objects not deeded to group in advance of the expected 'grief time'?

By time delays, I mean he'd place them so that they all went off within 1 minute of being placed. We DO have autoreturn on on the sims so they'd be returned after 1 minute.

4) If he was generating multiple accounts from scratch, why not set up a time restriction for newcomers (say 15 days)? You can override this manually for select individuals, you know.

We did

but it resulted in a drop off of people coming to the sim to RP.

From what I understand, he was MAC banned and lost several MILLION Lindens on those accounts (yes, he obviously had more RL money than sense). His wife got fed up and divorced him and got all his computers in the divorce.

With all respect, I doubt LL would have told you this if they'd banned him, and I don't understand how you'd have obtained this information unless it had been on national news, so excuse me for being a bit sceptical

LL let the sim owner know since this was a disgruntled former player that had been banned and had caused so much trouble.

I'm so glad you think griefing is inconsequential.

I don't. I'm arguing that you have the tools to change things, but simply can't be bothered to use them. And in such a climate, people can AR all sorts of ludicrous things that just waste LL's time.

LL actually sent one of the Lindens to our sim to let the members know what to do and how to deal with this guy since his griefing was above and beyond the normal nuisance griefing we get from time to time...like this.  

https://gyazo.com/66e4c23473a41404ef2c9b71d4f4db08

 

 

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[Amethyst Jetaime]

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soxley wrote:

I totally agree with you, but again, that's between him and his employer. I would feel sorry for him all the same, as I don't believe childish behaviour in an inworld enviroment necessarily deserves dire RL consequences. Some places fire people for logging onto Facebook - harsh, maybe justified depending on the work contract, but I'd still feel sorry for anyone affected by such a RL decision.

 

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This wasn't a case of being fired for childish behavior in SL.  What he was doing was inconsequential.  He was fired for using work computers and time for personal use instead of working which is what he was being paid to do.

It is the same thing with banning.  You make bad choices and you get banned for life and lose all your stuff you only have yourself to blame.  It is part of the consequences of your choices and actions.

The fact that you can't see that people have to accept the consequences of their choices shows you to have the mindset of a child.

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

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soxley wrote:

Replying to you (and Phil, since he demands I answer you)

1) When you and the other admins 'would be in bed', didn't you think to turn scripts off? (presuming you're in UK?)

I'm in the US but turning off scripts and rezzing would have meant those that were on couldn't use the meter or their weapons. We have people from all over the world in many time zones, so not fun for them, right?

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"TOLD YOU, DUDE.

SEA LIONS."