Rant: Mesh marked the end of SL, in my opinion. And it looks like Sansar is going to be mesh-only.

ChinRey · December 21, 2015

I think your post got truncated at some point, irihapeti. Here's a corrected version:

irihapeti probably meant to write:

am not really getting your point FMeh

to make something oldschool from scratch in SL then

- use a 3rd party tool to create the textures

- use a 3rd party tool to create sounds

- use a 3rd party tool to create animations for avatars that will interact with the model

- use the SL Code Editor to create effect scripts

- use the SL Builder to create the model by torturing triangles

then combine all to create the finished thing

+

to make something newschool from scratch in SL then

- use a 3rd party tool to create the textures

- use a 3rd party tool to create sounds

- use a 3rd party tool to create animations for avatars that will interact with the model

- use the SL Code Editor to create effect scripts

- use the a 3rd party tool to create the model by torturing triangles

- Log on to the beta grid for the first test upload

- Try to figure out why the UV maps that looked so good in your 3D editors are all wrong in SL

- Fix the UV maps

- Upload second test to check you got the UV maps right this time. If necessary, repeat the two previous steps until you have it sorted out

- Go back to your 3D editor software, merge, remove and move triangles until you have something that looks like a decent mid resolution LOD model

- Upload on beta grid to check what is wrong with the mid resolution model. Keep making new ones until you get a good compromice between LOD and LI

- Go back to your 3D editor software, merge, remove and move triangles until you have something that looks like a decent low resolution LOD model

- Upload on beta grid to check what is wrong with the low resolution model. Keep making new ones until you get a good compromice between LOD and LI

- Go back to your 3D editor software, merge, remove and move triangles until you have something that looks like a decent lowest resolution LOD model - if your build needs one

- Upload on beta grid to check what is wrong with the lowest resolution model. Keep making new ones until you get a good compromice between LOD and LI

- If your build requires a defined phsyics shape, go back to your 3D editor software and make something that looks like a decent physics model

- Upload to beta grid with physics

- Figure out why the physics model made the land impact skyrocket

- Fix the pjhysics model

- Upload the complete build to the beta grid

- Check for the inevitable blatanty embarrasing errors

- Log on to the main grid

- Upload to the main grid

- Go back to the 3D editor and fix the blatantly embarrasing errors you can't believe you overlooked on the beta grid

- Reupload to the main grid

- Go back to the 3D editor and fix the blatantly embarrasing errors you still somehow had managed to miss

then combine all to create the finished thing

and finally: find a way to blame Linden Lab for the lag your twenty gazzillion high resolution cutsom baked textures cause.

+

the torturing of triangles part is the same. Only the tool used for this part is different. The rest is the same as it ever was

ChinRey · December 21, 2015

Anya Ristow wrote:

And the trick is to find these events.

Time to start a new group perhaps? One where only events that are guaranteed free of crowdfiller bots are allowed to advertise. Shouldn't be too hard to organize and with a few enthusiasts telling all their friends and their friends telling their friends, it shuold be reasonably easy to spread the word about the group too.

I can't see a realistic way to reach the newcomers though. We would really need support from LL for that and I can't imagine they woud be interested.

Syo Emerald · December 21, 2015

ChinRey wrote:

I think Syo Emerald's reply is the best so far because it illustrates so well the difference between the "new" and "old style SL'ers - and gives me a good excuse for some blatant stereotyping.

I bet Fmeh never thought about clothing when he mentioned mesh and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't occur to Syo that mesh is used for other things than clothes and avi attachments too.

And that's the difference in a nutshell. For the stereotypical old school SL'er the avatar is a vehicle to socialize and explore the wonders of a virtual world. For the stereotypical new school SL'er Second Life is just a backdrop for the avatar. (Me, I'm somewhere in the middle btw, Dressing up my avtar is one of the fun things I do in SL but it's certainly not the only one, and not even the most impotant one.)

These new avatar fixated users aren't doing much good for SL, apart from contributing to the MP sales of course, but they're not doing much harm either. For Second Life as a whole they're simply irrelevant.

Except for one crucial detail: these people aren't going to stay for long. Right now the inflow of new avatar fixated users is almost enough to compensate for the loss of traditional ones so the number of active users doesn't drop very fast. But avatar posing is boring in the long run - even more boring than redecorating your virtual home once a week. Most of them will be gone in a year or two and

then

we'll suddenly see how precious few there are left of the traditional Second Life users. That's going to be quite a shock for many people both in SL and LL.

Not staying for long? As you can see, I have a lastname. I have been here for more than five years.

I know that mesh gets used for all kind of things, I have owned land in previous years and brought objects to decorate it. People like me keep the economy running. I put money in SL and spend it. I am one of the many who keep creators bills paid, because I care about my avatar. Because of people like me, many can spend more time creating.

And I'm part of the crowd that keep social venues busy. I express myself trough my avatar, thats why my avatars apperance matters to me. If all SL users would be "oldschool" (and by that you probably mean people mainly focused on building) SL would be quiet and empty, because builders use to hang out at sandboxes, concentrated on what they are doing...and certainly not interested in interaction and exploring.

Aethelwine · December 21, 2015

Anya Ristow wrote:

Aethelwine wrote:

Well I can't really say I have noticed much change. Clubs I went to when I started out were always full of people gesturbating and others mostly AFK whilst they shop on marketplace and listen to the music.

When was "when I started out?" If it was 2011 when you joined this forum then you've never known a time when people talked in open chat everywhere on the grid, because that started to decline in late 2007 and by mid 2008 clubs were full of what I called "club chat", which is gesture spam and nonsensical, tiny snippets of random prerecorded comments. That is, bots.

No, they aren't AFK while they shop. They are brought in by the venue owner to make it look like there are people in the club. Multiple avatars are run by one person using a bot client, and the "chat" is generated by the client. The person running them can respond to chat or IM, but their own bot chatter can make it difficult to see that someone has walked into the club and said hello. That, or sometimes they're just watching TV, or too busy setting up bots in another venue. So, actual human visitors can be ignored.

My initial foray in to secondlife was in 2009, but fairly shortlived as my pc just wasn't up to it. I walked into some water on help island or wherever i started. I couldn't see anything much for graphical glitches and well I relogged and I was still in the water and I couldn't get out. I came back in 2011 on this account with an upgraded computer and have stayed ever since.

I have never considered whether the gesturbating friends of the hosts you see at some events are bots or not, perhaps some are, but not all of them. For the most part I seem to recall them saying hi to each other when they arrive before they start showing their gestures off. I don't care for it but each to their own. So long as they don't get in the way of the music I will put up with them.

Aethelwine wrote:

I actually see much less of that nowadays because I rarely go to clubs and instead go to events with djs and people chat at them and don't gesturbate.

And the trick is to find these events. I know of one because I found a club owner on another web forum and got in her in-world group, where she posts event notices. And I know of a discussion group that posts in-world group notices because I found them years ago through word-of-mouth.

Now, imagine you are running out of things to do because these groups and venues are closing up. How do you find new ones? When someone asks what there is to do in SL, this is the info they need, not a vague, unhelpful, "yeah, I still find things to do. I don't see bots at the events I go to."

If you have a strategy for finding these events, describe it. Describe it in enough detail that someone else, perhaps a newbie who doesn't have twelve hours worth of patience before they find their first event, can reproduce it.

If you know of a venue that has real events, name it. If the event it regular, name the time.

If you know of a group that posts event notices, name it.

I've asked many times over quite a few years where people are finding live humans at the keyboard, and these unhelpful responses account for almost all the answers:

1) A described strategy that no longer works, because the person is describing how they *used* to find things. Or it amounts to "check the events list", which only works if you have unlimited time and patience, and probably means you are describing a strategy you don't actually use, or that you can't tell the difference between humans and bots so the events on the events list seem real enough to you.

2) A named venue that currently has no live humans, because the person hasn't actually been there in years and they don't know that it is no longer active.

3) A named venue that *everyone* names (NCI, Shelter, Blarney Stone). Again, this tends to be from memory, not from current experience.

4) A named venue that is empty or has bots 166 hours per week. A more helpful response would be to name the update group where event notices are posted, so one can show up during the 2 hours per week there are humans there.

5) Most of the responses amount to "no, you're wrong, SL is full of human activity" without naming anything at all.

I don't mean to pick on you, Aethelwine, but I have years of experience asking this question and in all that time only a couple people have been helpful. Almost everyone else is just here to tell me I'm wrong, out of pride or something.

When I first joined Sl seemed a very lonely place you could be in a crowd and no one would talk to one another the hubs were full of noisy people being stupid or offensive. I would have given up on it quite quickly if I hadn't been preyed upon by a bloodlines clan member, who bought me a Hud and introduced me to a premade group of friends with social events. Alot involving the War thing where they jump around attacking one another and stuff. I had too much lag to get involved with that, but having a premade social group made the difference between going and staying. They eventually fell apart but I found another bloodlines group to hang out with. In my travels I came across Hippie Bowman's sim and got involved with building, the Breakfast club and events and people there. And then I joined a motorcycle club and things really took off. My friendslist expanded exponentially. They had events, affiliated MCs had events, like one big family of people. More recently I have taken up sailing going on LCC cruises, Topless Cruises and RSYC cruises. I always contribute what I can, building advice, finances to keep the sims running, hosting, Djing just getting involved. I am now a Vice President of an active MC that runs two of the best biking sims (RRMC), and a Cruise Director for the Thursday Topless Cruises. I struggle to manage all the chats and social side of things to make time to do the things I like doing like sailing and riding. I don't think I am special.

When I first joined I was afraid to talk in public for fear I would look stupid, I still do. But once you get to see people enough they become familiar faces and then it becomes easy to talk in public and private. There isn't any secret formula to finding events. You just look for the things that interest you, do them, meet people talk to them get involved in their events and then the conversations start happening, just naturally.

As for event groups, if you like live music... then Live Music Enthusiasts is a good place to start. The performers chat to the crowd and encourage conversations. Naz Fride DJs an event at Atomic Palace Saturday nights I have really enjoyed going to, on the few occassions I have managed it (it is the middle of the night for people in Euro time). Commune Utopia has great events and are a nice bunch of people. Hippie Bowman's breakfast club on Sundays and anything he does. Helping Haven do nice events and are a nice bunch of people if you like helping people. The Caledon Group, The Wastelands, the sailing groups are all good for after parties and chatting during the cruises and after. My MC too RRMC has about 5 or 6 events a week to get involved with, some riding, some dancing and djs

There must be countless events and communities to get involved with and find friends to chat with in SL, you just need to look for when their events are. After my first few years here I now have more to do than there is time in the day.

Because of sailing what people think of as mainland is expanding through the addition of private sims on its borders, the Seychelles, the USS sims. SL seems more alive today to me than at any other time since I joined.

Rufferta · December 21, 2015