Community Manager Linden Lab Posted December 16, 2015 Community Manager Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hello, This thread is for your feedback regarding Project Bento. For more technical input, please file a JiRA 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Cloud Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Excellent news! Any idea when will we be able to download the new av skeleton? Also, is there any additional documentation as of yet? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz Linden Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Now. https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Enhanced-Skeleton-Project-Bento/ta-p/2975160 https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Testing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiannon Tamerlane Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Is there any possibility that genitalia will be included? Whether one likes it or not, sexual expression forms a significant chunk of Second Life for many people. Personally, I would like to see the mesh rigged to provide options for male and female genitalia, and be independent of the main body physionomy selection so that those who identify as intersex can shape their avatar to suit themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosius Woolley Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hello, You can go here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Testing#Test_Content and make sure you are logged in to download the example files. Exosius 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymath Snuggler Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Genitalia is presently handled fantastically by mesh attachment points ~ I don't think an extra bone is really needed for your "bone". Edit: we really need an FBX file or something of the new skeleton~ Someone forgot to post it / append it in the information thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashasekayi Ra Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I can't wait to try this out once the skeleton is posted! This is one of the features I've been waiting for the longest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polymath Snuggler Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 So~ uhm!! ~~ Oz! You haven't even released the skeleton and already I'm coming up with ways to improve this project! But ~ I really really think this will help SL enter a new era / age. Make the SL Default Avatar an "Unwearable" Inventory item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fennux Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Feature Request: I want to be able to upload a Project Bento skeleton rigged mesh "avatar", and then rez it out in-world, drop in a script/animation, and watch the mesh object play the animation before my eyes. This feature would enable more realistic creatures that are far less taxing on the viewer/land/etc. I know this is not exactly the place to request such features but it's very relevant. If someone from Linden Lab is reading this - please let us have "non-avatar, skeleton rigged objects in-world that can be animated via script". It would allow content creators to make a product that people would actually join second life to use. This is good for everyone. The current trick to animating mesh is showing/hiding texture faces, this means that the object is sometimes 8-16x the amount of geometry it needs to be. Playing around with the show/hide method, I found it often slowed my framerate to a crawl. The alternative is using sculpts, or a sculpt-mesh hybrid, and positioning/rotating each object within the linkset as fast as you possibly can to make it look like it's smoothly animated, but often comes out jagged and rough. Anyway, thanks for reading. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Shan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Can't download the file if access isn't set properly. Could you fix it please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teager Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 After having browsed the various notes and wikis regarding the new changes, here are my initial thoughts: - I wholeheartedly disagree with the decision to block animation of bone location - not only because very visually interesting animations can be achieved by moving a bone away from and back to its original location, but also because of the SEVERE problems with sorting mesh joints. Especially when switching from one mesh avatar with joint offsets to another mesh avatar with different joint offsets, the probability of seeing deformations has always been very high. More importantly, these deformations can be simultaneously seen by one user and not seen by another. To get around this, we avatar creators have put animated deformers inside our avatars which will play an animation that puts our bone joints where they should be when the avatar is worn, and play an animation putting the bones back in the default position when it is taken off. This way, even when SL fails to load the correct joint positions, the end user does not experience these unsettling deformations, and all users in the region will see that user exactly the same way. While my hope would be that you made absolutely sure to fix this problem before restricting the animation of joint location, I would still feel far better if you would re-enable it on release so I can continue to ensure a stable viewing experience for my customers. - I think you've made good decisions with your bone selections, but I would like to request an additional neck bone for nonhuman avatar makers. I am presently working on one such avatar that uses two neck bones and a rigged face by locking the positions of the avatar shoulders to mTorso instead of mChest. If I am no longer able to animate bone location, I will have to choose between a fluidly animating horse neck or an animated face, and I hate to lose functionality in what is supposed to be an improved feature. - I am absolutely giddy that the joint limit on a single animation has been raised from 32 to 106. Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serp Dharma Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 what good are 30 facial bones without bone translation? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaAzulejo Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Please consider this comment as written by an uneducated cavewoman with specific needs. I love my mesh body, but have to go classic when I race sailboats to minimize scripts. Is there a way to craft a Bento (or whatever) avatar that provides the beauty of mesh bodies and heads along with the utility of a classic avatar? Because, you know, it's important for sailors to be as beautiful as their yachts. *cue smiley face* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Oz Linden wrote: Now. https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Enhanced-Skeleton-Project-Bento/ta-p/2975160 https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Testing Why was this development done behind closed doors, IN SECRET? What was the point of keeping it secret? Was it to help your friends again Oz? Cause that is what it looks like. Does LL not understand that developers and creators need to work together? Again tho, why was this kept secret. Is this some kind of new innovation, adding bones to skeletons? Was someone else going to steal the idea? I will never understand the Lab. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Cloud Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I predict the answer will be 'Too many cooks in the kitchen', etc. Which I have no problem with. I am glad we have something to work with, even if I am dismayed that some functionality is hobbled for the moment. the important thing is what direction things go in moving forward. Keep in mind this a beta prior to a release candidate, prior to full blown mainstream release. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Shan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 If scripts cause lags when using physical vehicles you should contact the body creator for a low lag optimization on script. The avatar having more bones have nothing to do with you getting lag. Asides of that, SL isnt really designed with that purpose of moving between SIMs with vehicles as that have been always problematic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina Pussycat Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would personally love to see a neck attachment point / bone structure so that things like collars and necklaces can work a bit more seamlessly. They are particularly annoying as they either follow the head or the body but cannot follow both unless they are rigged mesh which can be a bit problematic at times if you want to be able to resize or anything. Making a point that has movement based on other factors to keep a necklace collar etc in place properly when head / body movement happens a bit would be very nice. As the neck does actually move with animations and stuff but a lack of a control point leads to necklaces or collars cutting into the neck, having a control point and attachment there would allow the necklace to potentially move properly with the slight neck movement (this would be best for collars or chokers obviously as necklaces can be wider) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Either this is worded badly, or LL is about to break a ton of stuff. Animations cannot include animation of positions, except for the pelvis. This has always been enforced in bvh upload, but it has been possible to bypass the constraint by uploading animations as .anim files. In the Bento test regions (and on Agni once Bento is fully released), this will no longer be possible.What exactly is this saying? Is it saying that bone positions can't and will never be able to be altered, cause that doesn't make any sense. What about all the animals in SL? They all require different bone positions. Or, is this saying that restricting position will no longer be possible? Either way, this is 1 screwed up couple of sentences. If it is what it says tho, LL just went backwards when it comes to non human avatars. If LL never wanted to support bone positions, then it should have never allowed users to upload anim files in the LL viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Shan Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Probably old content will remain compatible with those animations but new ones dont I guess and you wont be able to upload anymore those "hacked" animations. Which makes me wonder why dont we just drop anim files support and just update BVH to support everything just out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Kitsune Shan wrote: Probably old content will remain compatible with those animations but new ones dont I guess and you wont be able to upload anymore those "hacked" animations. Which makes me wonder why dont we just drop anim files support and just update BVH to support everything just out of the box. LL's explaination doesn't make any sense. Bone positioning is extremely important, even with humanoid avatars. For animal avatars, bone positioning is a must. Heck the last avatar I did was a fly. Imagine how I had to distort that rig. Plus, in the Bento project, a jira was fixed that allows creators to have custom joint positions on a fitted mesh avatar. Before, it was not possible to create an avatar like the Navi, from the movie AVATAR, and use fitted mesh on that body. Now we can, but not if we can't change the joint positions. So, what exactly was the point of fixing that jira? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teager Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would really rather keep those "hacked" animations, since we were using them to fix what has been a problem with mesh joint offsets since the moment mesh launched, and has gone unfixed after numerous jiras and bug reports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenna Soothsayer Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I agree most strongly on needing to keep custom offsets. Also, I think as long as you're doing wing and tail bones, we need a 'digitigrade' bone: a joint between ankle and knee. Especially if we won't be able to repurpose other bones for it. (Although we need to be able to do that.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teager Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I agree on the digitigrade bone. I would love to see new optional bones inserted between ankle and knee and between head and neck, for those creators who would like to use them. These should not break existing content if they are kept locked at default position when not in use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 The 'digitigrade' bone is technically there. When you export in anim format, you have access to all the bones on the skeleton. Those extra bones in the feet were always there, just few people used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIN Rain Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Damn, I was loooking forward to wiggling my toes! Are the bone assignments final or is there still a chance to suggest/reassign some bones for toes? (perhaps the fingertip or 2nd knuckle bones reassigned?) p.s If you do decide to implement, can I have a royalty for when anyone Curls their Toes in SL? :matte-motes-big-grin-wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now