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reality of sl customer service...


sekimikaze
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Okay so!
I had a long distance relationship boyfriend in real life that I was dating and thought it would be fun to introduce him to second life, big BIG mistake! he met one of my "girl - friends" (more like an annoying **bleep** I tried to kick out of my life but my other friends were like "no no keep her around shes a nice girl" ) ....ANYWAYS I've caught them spending alone time together a couple of times, mainly because I have teleport rights to him and then hes at her place you know, hanging around. I wasn't MAD at these instances, but I got both of them in a skype call and told them strait out "Listen, if you two like each other please just save me the heartbreak etc and just tell me now... I wont get mad I just don't want to play games here." they denied EVERYTHING and were like "OH NO NO WE DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER"

I decided to let that slide and just moved along...

One day a couple weeks later I made my "boyfriend" a gift, it took LOTS of hard work to get this gift made, I logged onto his account to surprise him with this gift, now, I had logged onto him SEVERAL TIMES before and NO PROBLEM! I had access to his account and he knew it, I mean, how would I get access without his password right? What I saw when I logged in though was unspeakable... I found his and that girls "LOVE NEST" ..cozy ... kind of annoyed I took the credits from his account that would pay for 1 months rent on my land and then took off, off of his account, well he found out...obviously... minutes later

He started sending me spam text messages and emails of all sorts calling me names that were really just hurtful and sexist... and he just kept going ON AND ON I had to change my phone number!

once I changed my phone number though I guess him and his girly made a report about me being on his account and *drum-roll* I get banned... or no wait, NOT BANNED but "TEMPORARILY ON HOLD" and so does my best friend for some magical reason, even though SHE was not involved in this what so ever...

What does temporary hold mean? well it means that all the products on second life that my character was selling on the shop, ARE STILL UP THERE and people are still buying them! second life makes a profit off of these products still being listed after all, best not completely remove this account am I right?

anyways, we decide a day or two later that its time to follow second life's advice and give them a call at their hot-line number, I gave them a couple of rings and apparently they cant do ANYTHING about actual account issues, just billing issues... they recommend each time that I contact support via ticket service, which is apparently the ONLY WAY to appeal this...

so I submit a ticket, the first ticket I submitted got the response of "we are sorry but your account has broken terms of service and will be permanently shut down" ...really automated... I found out my friend who also put in a ticket got the EXACT SAME MESSAGE!

so I open up the ticket again asking questions like "why was I banned etc" got no response but my ticket was closed, so I tried again with the reopen ticket button, this became a repeated process! I got NO RESPONSES AND CLOSED TICKETS OVER AND OVER EACH TIME I OPENED THEM, so I opened a new ticket asking questions, that one just got completely closed so I couldn't reply... so I go back to my original ticket, the "reopen ticket" button is MISSING! ....it is NOT ON THAT TICKET!

I got really annoyed at this point, "No answers, no support, no nothing just BS!"

after a bit I sighed and decided to re-roll, I was allowed to use my old payment information from my first account and so I did ...as soon as I put the payment through and had more Linden (the currency on their game) I was banned! after leaving this account open for a day... I was banned! again!

SO, I contacted my sl friends one of them had the answer "Oh yeah they watch if like you use old payment methods or anything like that"

I rolled my eyes, as I realized how dumb it was to use an old payment method on there, some days later when my confidence was back and when I couldnt have another day without second life, I made another character, this time making sure to make a new payment method for this one...etc, I didnt add my payment method until late in the evening though, I added quite the amount of linden to my account thinking I was safe and I could finally just get back on that bike and try try again!

NOPE!

as soon as I put the payment through after HOURS of leaving this account active...AS SOON AS THEY GOT MONEY FROM ME! BANNED! .... I realized now, they were watching for me to add money and the ban goes by IP address, they wont reply to my support tickets, they wont issue me any refunds and they wont even unban a friend of mine who isn't related to this whole mess in the first place.

So while second life is innovative for their graphics and game-play, be aware their customer support is NON EXISTENT!

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sekimikaze wrote:

Okay so!

I had a long distance relationship boyfriend in real life that I was dating and thought it would be fun to introduce him to second life, big BIG mistake! he met one of my "girl - friends" (more like an annoying **bleep** I tried to kick out of my life but my other friends were like "no no keep her around shes a nice girl" ) ....ANYWAYS I've caught them spending alone time together a couple of times, mainly because I have teleport rights to him and then hes at her place you know, hanging around. I wasn't MAD at these instances, but I got both of them in a skype call and told them strait out "Listen, if you two like each other please just save me the heartbreak etc and just tell me now... I wont get mad I just don't want to play games here." they denied EVERYTHING and were like "OH NO NO WE DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER"

 

I decided to let that slide and just moved along...

 

One day a couple weeks later I made my "boyfriend" a gift, it took LOTS of hard work to get this gift made, I logged onto his account to surprise him with this gift, now, I had logged onto him SEVERAL TIMES before and NO PROBLEM! I had access to his account and he knew it, I mean, how would I get access without his password right? What I saw when I logged in though was unspeakable... I found his and that girls "LOVE NEST" ..cozy ... kind of annoyed I took the credits from his account that would pay for 1 months rent on my land and then took off, off of his account, well he found out...obviously... minutes later

 

He started sending me spam text messages and emails of all sorts calling me names that were really just hurtful and sexist... and he just kept going ON AND ON I had to change my phone number!

 

once I changed my phone number though I guess him and his girly made a report about me being on his account and *drum-roll* I get banned... or no wait, NOT BANNED but "TEMPORARILY ON HOLD" and so does my best friend for some magical reason, even though SHE was not involved in this what so ever...

 

What does temporary hold mean? well it means that all the products on second life that my character was selling on the shop, ARE STILL UP THERE and people are still buying them! second life makes a profit off of these products still being listed after all, best not completely remove this account am I right?

 

anyways, we decide a day or two later that its time to follow second life's advice and give them a call at their hot-line number, I gave them a couple of rings and apparently they cant do ANYTHING about actual account issues, just billing issues... they recommend each time that I contact support via ticket service, which is apparently the ONLY WAY to appeal this...

 

so I submit a ticket, the first ticket I submitted got the response of "we are sorry but your account has broken terms of service and will be permanently shut down" ...really automated... I found out my friend who also put in a ticket got the EXACT SAME MESSAGE!

 

so I open up the ticket again asking questions like "why was I banned etc" got no response but my ticket was closed, so I tried again with the reopen ticket button, this became a repeated process! I got NO RESPONSES AND CLOSED TICKETS OVER AND OVER EACH TIME I OPENED THEM, so I opened a new ticket asking questions, that one just got completely closed so I couldn't reply... so I go back to my original ticket, the "reopen ticket" button is MISSING! ....it is NOT ON THAT TICKET!

 

I got really annoyed at this point, "No answers, no support, no nothing just BS!"

 

after a bit I sighed and decided to re-roll, I was allowed to use my old payment information from my first account and so I did ...as soon as I put the payment through and had more Linden (the currency on their game) I was banned! after leaving this account open for a day... I was banned! again!

 

SO, I contacted my sl friends one of them had the answer "Oh yeah they watch if like you use old payment methods or anything like that"

 

I rolled my eyes, as I realized how dumb it was to use an old payment method on there, some days later when my confidence was back and when I couldnt have another day without second life, I made another character, this time making sure to make a new payment method for this one...etc, I didnt add my payment method until late in the evening though, I added quite the amount of linden to my account thinking I was safe and I could finally just get back on that bike and try try again!

 

NOPE!

 

as soon as I put the payment through after HOURS of leaving this account active...AS SOON AS THEY GOT MONEY FROM ME! BANNED! .... I realized now, they were watching for me to add money and the ban goes by IP address, they wont reply to my support tickets, they wont issue me any refunds and they wont even unban a friend of mine who isn't related to this whole mess in the first place.

 

So while second life is innovative for their graphics and game-play, be aware their customer support is NON EXISTENT!

You stole money from another person's account, got banned, admitted to it on the forum belonging to the company that banned you, and your complaint is about that company's customer service?

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you could make this huggggggeeeee post a lot shorter... all he drama in it isn't relevant.

 

i stole money..got banned ....

 

i won't even start with... you'r so stupid to share accounts, but you are example of abusing it by TAKING = STEALING money from him.

well... yes you broke TOS and got banned. That also means you aren't allowed to create a new account. That's second breach... so yes... that got banned too. Keep trying and your IP will be banned.

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Seems like a fun thread, I was expecting just a blank original post to be honest but...


sekimikaze wrote:

I'm glad that this is all you can take from this, that I took Linden from someone...but you blatently ignore all the other things in the post ...just ...congrats like wow!

Linden Lab is a business but not in the business to do relationship councelling.  None of the whole relationship drama/saga has any relevance, nor can it be used as any justification for taking something that didn't belong to you.

By your own action you ended up with a suspended account and while LL's customer service may sometimes be left wanting, had you not perforned your original action, you wouldn't have had it happen.  Cause and effect.

Now, me on the other hand, ended up with an account on hold because I was selling a legitimate object on Marketplace and ended up receiving L$27,000,000 but that's another story.  How was THAT fair?!

I still haven't figured out which way up to eat chocolate biscuits for best effect.

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 I understand that you are frustrated, but the fact is that you took money from his account, and you didn't give it back.

To say this is an "issue" is you living in fantasyland, sorry. 

When LL went back and checked, they could see had logged into his account from your IP adress, and transferred money from his account to yours. LL does not owe you any more explanation for the ban. 

No, I don't think I will have an "issue" with SL because of logging into a boyfriends account and transfer money to myself. Many other "issues" perhaps.

Yes, I know that many others share passwords with friends and lovers. This is going fine until there is an argument and you are reported...

Creating new accounts is also a violation of TOS. I can not reply to why you were discovered after you bought §L. I doubt it is due to an evil plot of LL. I will guess that they don't bother to run a security check on new accounts, but that first purchase is followed by a mandatory control.

At least you should be pleased that your "friend" also got hit by the same ban. Maybe he shared his password with her too, and LL found out that she had used his account too when they controlled the login statistics. Shows that sharing accounts is some of the most risky things you can do in SL.

Justice should be served and the man here broke the TOS too... we can wonder why LL act this way or that.

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You are correct in noting that LL has some pretty horrid methods of Customer Service. You won't find me arguing that point in the least. But I'm afraid I will be joining the other respondents on this thread by pointing out that your actions are the direct cause of the ban you received.

I don't know how much money was taken, but you openly admitted to theft of money. You *MIGHT* be able to argue (in a court of law perhaps) that what you took were "worthless game coupons" and thus there was no value to take. Thus no crime. But you'd probably pay a ton to prove what eventually is nothing more than a Moot point.

Instead I recommend you look on this as a blessing and a lesson. First of all you won't be subjected to any more doubts about his activities on SL. You'll know he is doing what he wants .. AND you'll not be forced to watch it happen.

The lesson part? oh .. right ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DON'T STEAL!!

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Benkmans wrote:

Look like ban is permanent.  Threadstarter name gone from ingame search.

Still shows up with a profile here though. Perhaps the Ban only extends into the platform and they've left this door open so people can complain and ruin our day? LOL

Oh .. wait .. this didn't ruin my day. In fact, it has given me some big ole smiles!

(I can't believe I'm gonna say this but ... ) Thank you LL!! I needed a good giggle today.

(And if anyone ever accuses me of not giving credit where credit is due .. I'm gonna point RIGHT to this post!)

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You're right when I read it over. Yes, LL does many weird things.

Unless TS also used to log into the "best friends" account? Maybe LL ran a statistic over all TS logins, what do we know.

The fisrst reply LL sent her when she submitted a ticket, was straightforward. Maybe a best friend can agree to that logic: "Well he owed me money for rent, because I would never let him use my land for free if I had known he was cheating on me!"

But LL isn't going to listen to pointless arguments...

 

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The one aspect of this that escapes most peoples' notice is the really crucial distinction between one's account .. and the account's bank balance.

Your local bank may happily let you wander into their lobby, proclaiming loudly "My name is John Doe" when they also know you are not him. They have no problems with you wandering around, looking at deposit slips and sitting in their many uncomfortable chairs.

But if you fill out a withdrawal slip and attempt to use your fake identity to access funds not yours?

It's the same with the OP's actions. She could and did log in to his account many times. No harm, no foul. But then she took his money, filled out that withdrawal slip and cashed it.

The friend that got banned? Yup, I think you're right. Since LL has probably used the source IP address to determine who did what and when, it would seem the friend somehow also had access to the victim's login credentials and gained access illegally.  Whether anything was taken? By then it was no longer important. A crime had been committed, and anyone returning to the scene of the crime was subject to immediate removal from the grid.

People do have this amazing ability to justify their own actions (no matter how horrible and illegal) while they are also the same voices that SCREAM should someone else step one tiny toe across their imaginary lines. It would be educational to find out what bumper stickers are on the OP's car. LOL

ETA: I can imagine it something like this:

OP: OMFG!! I can't believe he did this to me! You should see this love nest!

FRIEND: Let me see! Let me SEE!!

OP: Okay, I'll log out. His password is "...."

And from there .. it was a done deal.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

The friend that got banned? Yup, I think you're right. Since LL has probably used the source IP address to determine who did what and when, it would seem the friend somehow also had access to the victim's login credentials and gained access illegally.  Whether anything was taken? By then it was no longer important. A crime had been committed, and anyone returning to the scene of the crime was subject to immediate removal from the grid.

ETA:
I can imagine it something like this:

OP: OMFG!! I can't believe he did this to me! You should see this love nest!

FRIEND: Let me see! Let me SEE!!

OP: Okay, I'll log out. His password is "...."

And from there .. it was a done deal.

It needn't have even been as complicated as all that.  It could be as simple as either the OP or her friend having accessed the other's account recently, thereby connecting them, as far as LL was concerned.  I want through something quite similar quite a while back.

At the time, I had an SL boyfriend who lived on the other side of the world from me (in RL, of course).  One night, he badgered me relentlessly to sign on to his account and adjust this stupid top hat for him, because he as too incompetent to do it himself.  *eye roll*  Against my better judgement, I ended up relenting and spent less than five minutes on his account.  Afterward, I thought little of it until a few days later, when I couldn't sign on... receiving a notice telling me to call LL's fraud department.

Of course, I was shaken... not even thinking about that fateful five minutes.  But, before I called them, I texted my boyfriend to tell him I wouldn't be signing on any time soon, at which point, he informed me that his account was also blocked.  Apparently, he owed LL some money and wouldn't be able to sign back on until his account was in the black.  I was like, "You have to be effing kidding me?"  (I have my suspicions it had something to do with credit card fraud or something like that.)

Anyway, I ended up having to send LL a picture of my picture ID so they could verify I was who I said I was.  Lucky for me, I signed up with my real credentials... not everyone does.

Here's the interesting part... the week before any of this happened, my sister signed one of her alts on with my computer for a short time.  So afterward, when she tried to sign that alt on again, it was blocked as well.  So, yeah... I know very well that LL can connect accounts by simply noting what computer with which they're being signed on.

Consequently, I proved who I was, was able to sign on once again, at which point, my sister was able to sign her alt on again.  Plus, after finding out that he was planning a wedding to someone else on an alt account, I dumped my lying, loser of a boyfriend and everyone lived happily ever after.

And the moral of this story is:  Never sign on to an account that doesn't belong to you and be very careful signing your account on with a computer that belongs to some else who uses SL.

...Dres  (Btw, the moral of the OP's story is:  Don't be a thief and expect any sort of sympathy [or customer service] when you get caught.)

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Holy Battered Beans! Yup, that's quite the "Education", eh? (Education: That thing you get when you don't see it coming.)

As a seller of complex systems, I have from time to time been asked to sign on to someone else's account. In almost every case I have politely declined, explained the possible consequences .. and had 100% positive response. The VERY few times I have signed on to another's account over my years, I have used the following process:

  1. Have them change their password to something totally stupid and obvious .. like "password"
  2. I log in, do whatever is needed then promptly log out
  3. Have them change their password back .. or better still .. to something brand new

I also recommend they transfer their account balance to an Alt for the duration.

I keep COMPLETE logs of both nearby chat and any IMs received .. then send those after the fact. I respond to nothing received during my login.

And then I spend a few days worried I'll be sending a scan of my photo ID to the Lab.

Despite the above, I agree .. it is absolutely the best choice to avoid using another's account. No matter how "close" the other may be to you ... today.

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I personally think that Linden Lab has overstepped here because the moment they discovered that this theft -- a customer dispute about what you are owed after you are shafted -- is a result of *him giving you the password* then all bets are off -- it should instantly become "not a case" and "not for our adjudication." Anyone who gives their password to another person accepts the inherent risk involved. LL should not be pursuing any kind of disciplinary action when that happens. The boyfriend should suck up the fact that when he cheats on his RL girlfriend, and lies about it, his RL girlfriend will extract revenge in the forum of tier or money or whatever it was -- "credits" isn't clear to me. A tier paid? A land credit? Or Linden dollars? 

Yes, Lindens can pursue you via your IP address which is used to log on to their service, by forms of payment, by names, and even other things if they suspect you are evading their discipline. They hate that more than anything because they aren't interesting in analyzing whether their "justice" was fair, only in ensuring it is never overriden.

Unless you want to risk masking your IP and getting other forms of payment and all the rest -- which is hard to maintain and also grounds for suspension when it fails, you should probably find a new world. A new boyfriend, too.

You could try to get a lawyer involved but at $400/hour real money, that gets expensive quick and basically, this TOS has already been declared as "a contract of adhesion" by a court of law, but most rulings on games and worlds basically shrug and say "you signed the TOS, your funeral."

 

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As you have so forcefully pointed out MANY times in the past, Linden Lab is a business. As such they are not prone to splitting fine hairs on matters like this. Their solution was rapid, succinct, made their point and resolved all further issues from this incident.

They didn't pronounce guilt. They didn't pronounce innocence. They just ended it. Period.

And your problem with that is .. they should have spent company resources investigating a matter that would gain them nothing, further exasperate the parties involved, and just turn into more waste (time and money) in the long-run?

Exactly what TYPE of business do you think LL is? NGO?

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

I personally think that Linden Lab has overstepped here because the moment they discovered that this theft -- a customer dispute about what you are owed after you are shafted -- is a result of *him giving you the password* then all bets are off -- it should instantly become "not a case" and "not for our adjudication." Anyone who gives their password to another person accepts the inherent risk involved. LL should not be pursuing any kind of disciplinary action when that happens. The boyfriend should suck up the fact that when he cheats on his RL girlfriend, and lies about it, his RL girlfriend will extract revenge in the forum of tier or money or whatever it was -- "credits" isn't clear to me. A tier paid? A land credit? Or Linden dollars? 

 

</snip> 

The problem with this is that you now have a "He Said/She Said" situation.  All he has to do is say, "I never gave her my password."  He can prove ownership  of the account.  She can prove nothing.

 


Prokofy Neva wrote:

<snip>

You could try to get a lawyer involved but at $400/hour real money, that gets expensive quick and basically, this TOS has already been declared as "a contract of adhesion" by a court of law,

 

 

Can you cite the case?  I follow a lot of SL related legal stuff and don't know of a specific case where this was ruled.  Very curious.

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