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Linden Lab

Skill Gaming Policy Thread

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If you’ve read the blog, FAQs and Wiki documentation on our revised Skill Gaming Policy and have comments and/or questions, you can post them here. We’ll be keeping an eye on this forum thread regarding Skill Gaming.

 

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ok...I'll start the ball rolling.

According to Section 2- Gaming Residents:

"In order to enter a Skill Gaming Region, you must establish and maintain a Second Life account with accurate, current and complete information about yourself, including a valid payment method"

So does this mean that this new Skilled Gaming area will be open to Premium Members only and not those of us who have a free account? Seems a bit unfair and, if I may say so, you're cutting out a large portion of the users of Second Life.

Thank you for you cooperation....

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Hi Tex!

Great first question. You do not need to be a Premium Member to have payment information on file. The Skill Gaming regions will not be restricted to only Premium memberships.

Thanks!

 

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I see that people who want to create or operate games of skill must, among other things,  provide

 

  • A reasoned legal opinion from a credible attorney in good standing, which describes in detail the operation and legality of the games of skill you are submitting for approval;

This should spare us lots of pointless argument about what's a game of skill and what isn't.

However, it leaves me with a question about the basis on which my attorney is to provide the opinion if (as I do) I live outside the USA.   My attorney could tell me whether I would need a licence from the UK's Gambling Commission to operate my game online -- if she says I wouldn't, and  explains why, is that sufficient?

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Two questions.

1. Many clubs still have "sploders," often times now referred to as "Legal Sploders," though many of us have wondered how they were still legal under the gaming policy.  (Link to an example on the Marketplace).  Will Clubs still be able to use these or would they have to register as a 'Gaming SIM?'

2.  Are contest boards where people get to vote on for instance, "Best looking Martian," affected in any way?

 

 

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Linden Lab wrote:

Hi Tex!

Great first question. You do not need to be a Premium Member to have payment information on file. The Skill Gaming regions will not be restricted to only Premium memberships.

Thanks!

 

 

Thank you for your answer, but that leads me to a follow-up question

I am not a premium member and have never put payment information on file with LL. This means you HAVE to have something on file in order for us to play? And secondly...honestly...how would you know? If we never decide to cash in the Lindens that we win and just spend them inworld (which is why I would assume you'd need payment information) what's the point?

Thanks again

ETA: I do have to applaud the Lab for having someone here to answer our questions rather than let us argue amongst ourselves as to what we can and can not do. Bravo!

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My question leads on from Perrie's...

The definition of Skill Gaming present in the Wiki seems intentionally vague, which is understandable considering the creativity present within SL. How will objects that require PERMISSION_DEBIT unrelated to gaming be policed? If an object that requires PERMISSION_DEBIT to function is determined to be a game of skill, will there be a determination/consultation or warning issued prior to asset removal/account termination? Or is there some 'clear line' that I'm missing?

Examples of benign PERMISSION_DEBIT scripts include but aren't limited to contest boards, alternate-account L$-transfer 'wallets', RP currency systems (e.g. Pickpocketing/scavenging, roleplay marketplaces/breedables, consensual financial domination) and vendors/rental systems that provide refunds.

Additionally, will there be a named Linden (or team of Linden's) assigned to compliance and policing of this issue? Someone we can 'go to'?

Thanks in hope!

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We are going to offer gaming regions and parcels in gaming regions for rent via AnsheX.com  

Will we need to obtain an operator license ourselves to do this if we are only acting as land lord or will it be sufficient if the actual operators who are renting the parcels or sims have a license?

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Hi Innula, 

Each application  - including the legal opinion from your attorney - will be reviewed on a case by case basis. Please consider our Skill Gaming Policy and Skill Gaming Program Terms & Conditions in your and your attorney's evaluation of skill games you would like to submit for approval. 

Thank you!

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Hi Anshe,

To the extent that your activities would fall within the definition of "Operator", such activities would require a license. 

For more information on the destinction between a "Region Owner" and "Operator", please review the Skill Gaming Policy.

best regards,

 

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Will there be a script function introduced to enable gaming scripts to determine if they're actually allowed on the land they've been rezzed on?

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Hi Perrie,

Second Life residents will need to make this determination on a case by case basis to the extent that they believe that their "sploders", contest boards, and other objects are deemed a game of skill (instead of chance which is still prohibited under our Wagering Policy), and will need to comply with our updated Skill Gaming Policy.

regards,

 

 

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Hi Freya,

Objects unrelated to skill gaming must continue to be in compliance with our exisiting Terms of Service and Policies.

Beginning August 1, 2014, if you become aware of any violations of the Skill Gaming Policy, please submit an abuse report with our support team.

Thank you!

 

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Hi Tex,

You are correct, in order to play you will need to have payment information on file in accordance with the updated Skill Gaming Policy.

best regards,

 

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Hi Samm,

Please see my reply to Perrie here

Thank you and best regards!

 

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Linden Lab wrote:

Hi Perrie,

Second Life residents will need to make this determination on a case by case basis to the extent that they believe that their "sploders", contest boards, and other objects are deemed a game of skill (instead of chance which is still prohibited under our
), and will need to comply with our updated
.

regards,

 

 

Ok... so... the way that is read... clubs cannot use sploders, or contest boards... or anything else skill based... unless the club resides on an approved gaming sim... which costs almost double than a normal sim, because of your 'compliance fee'... and no gaming sim is going to permit a club on it as it lags out the sim affecting the games... so contest board and sploders, if they are not deemed a "game of skill", are prohibited outright... is the way I am understanding it right now...

 

I don't think you're quite aware of just how much of a detrimental impact this policy is going to have on the grid... and perhaps you guys need to do a thorough re-think of your policies about this. Too often you guys make decisions that are detrimental to the grid, without taking into account how they will affect the grid in the first place... like the marketplace impact on land ownership for one, and how removing telehubs and enabling TP-anywhere, ruined the mainlands...

 

(am pissed after just winning an auction on mainland for a parcel I had planned on ressurecting my arcade on, just to find out about this with no way to cancel my bids, and I just lost the purchase cost, plus a USD $25 land usage fee, for a parcel I'm about to abandon as it is useless to me now, because of this announcement... and who can afford to get lawyer's opinions for something that is just supposed to be something fun to run for a few dollars a month to buy clothes with? ... all this benefits is the mega-casino operators, and the rest of us doing this for fun get screwed... AGAIN... grr...)

 

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There is a popular table game called Greedy Greedy. It's usually played for free and without any prize of any kind. But it includes the option of pay-to-play and of giving a L$ prize. The game involves clicking to roll 6 dice. The result of the roll is down to chance. Trying to mount up point, players select which dice to keepand whether or not to roll again. If they get too grredy and continue to roll the dice too many times, they'll not add any points, or even lose the points they have. That's a very general idea of the game.

Rolling the dice is the significant chance part, while deciding which dice to select and whether or not to continue rolling needs thought.

My question is this: Will that game be allowed to be played for free and without prizes, without it needing to be in a Skill Gaming region? Or will the fact that it can be set to pay-to-play and give cash prizes, even though it isn't being used that way, mean that it can't be used in a non-Skill Gaming region. I.e. will the fact that it CAN be used with money void it from being used without money in non-Skill Gaming Regions?

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Another question. Sploders have been mentioned a couple of times in the thread. Are there any sploders that are actually allowed, and, if so, why are they allowed?, or do they all infringe the gambling rules?

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I think people are probably overreaching by including contest boards, building contests, and owner-sponsored sploders, etc.  If you don't have to pay in to participate, then I would not think it approaches the "gaming" designation, and any payout is simply a gift between avatars. 

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

I think people are probably overreaching by including contest boards, building contests, and
owner-sponsored sploders
, etc.  If you don't have to pay in to participate, then I would not think it approaches the "gaming" designation, and any payout is simply a gift between avatars. 

Is that what makes some sploders legal? Owners put the money in and not the people?

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As I understand it then, someone who wants to rez (and operate) a sploder that cost them $1 needs to:-

 

  1. Rez it on appropriate land, approved for the purpose
  2. Use and approved one from an approved creator
  3. Have an operator licence themselves which requires them to have a lawyer provide a statement (big fees involved here for the individual)
  4. Pay a non refundable application fee to LL (HOW MUCH?)
  5. Pay a quarterly maintenance fee to LL  (HOW MUCH?)

I couldn't find the details of the fees anywhere, c'mon fess up, what are they?

One of two things will happen:-

You've just killed all clubs because even though it was never financially viable to operate one, the costs and effort have just sky rocketed to merely operate the only things that bring anything at all other than a DJ to them.

Or, nobody will give a hoot and will continue to use old sploders, nobody will bother "REPORTING" that someone has just won $1 US and life will go on.

Enjoy!


(Suggestion, host the platform in one of many forward thinking countries that doesn't have issues with this pettiness.  Excuse me while I depart to turn on the TV for terrestrial broadcasts, not some hidden away cable channel, to watch gambling programmes, not that I have an interest but simply BECAUSE I CAN!)

 

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Sassy Romano wrote:

(Suggestion, host the platform in one of many forward thinking countries that doesn't have issues with this pettiness.  Excuse me while I depart to turn on the TV for terrestrial broadcasts, not some hidden away cable channel, to watch gambling programmes, not that I have an interest but simply BECAUSE I CAN!)

 

I just know that nobody better be coming around me for a while talking about how we're supposedly the free-est nation on the planet, and our "liberties" and the rest, when we aren't even free to do what we want with our own fake money.

 

-- Smoov

 

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