Skill Gaming Policy Thread

[Perrie Juran]

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RoryClegane wrote:

Its a point and click game which is free to play for avatars but will have a low payout requirement from sim owners. Basically its a form of camping except the camper gets to play a game instead of sitting. The sim/parcel owner will have control over levels of payout and even set daily limits. Is this fine or not?

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Have you read the Policy?

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_Policy

The odds of a Linden actually repying here is less than nill.

 

[Dresden]

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RoryClegane wrote:

So am I correct to assume that I cannot sell my game which is created for the purpose of creating traffic for sim owners? The game is free to players I might add. 

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My understanding of the skilled gaming policy is that, as long as your game cannot be set as pay-to-play, it should be alright to sell it without getting a skilled gaming creator license.  Though I must suggest that you ask an actual attorney who is knowledgeable in gaming law if you want to be absolutely sure.

LL will not give you any legal advice whatsoever.  And any advice or opinion you get here, or from some random person in SL, should not be trusted to protect you in any way, shape or form... including the opinion which I've just given you.

...Dres

[RoryClegane]

Thanks folks, the general consensus in world and on here seems to be as long as its not pay to play (which its certainly not) then it is fine. Much appreciated.

[Vixie Delaid]

I came back today after 5 years to see that I am unable to visit any skilled gaming regions.  I am age verified, I have payment info on file, i restarted, put payment into in again, my ISP is from NY, I live in NY... I cannot get inot any gaming sims!  When I search all i get are the above steps.  When I try to submit a question, there is no proper section to post it.

 

Please, WHAT CAN I DO??  This is the only reason I came back to SL and I cant figure out what the issue is!  Any idea and or who I can talk to for HELP?

Thanks

[AlecDeBoeuil]

You have to apply directly to Ebbe Linden for a special tag to be added to your avatar account that indicates you are gullible, bored and unimaginative, and he will ensure not only that you can throw money away in SL, but that you are offered a poistion on the alpha testing team for SL V2.

Alec - being helpful; being unhelpful is even more fun though

[Skip Oceanlane]

Since 2011, I ran Capital Exchange Stock Market Simulation Game (CapEx) at slcapex.com (now at onlinecapex.com).  It's a game of skill that used to use L$ to play.  I was one of the affected operations with the new skill gaming requirements, and I applied as an Operator, as well as for the Game itself.  Technically my application is still active, but I chose to move the game outside of Second Life for now because of their unreasonable skill gaming application process.

After applying for a license and 3 months of basically hearing nothing from Linden Lab, I was finally contacted by an attorney representing Linden Lab requesting detailed information about CapEx.  Through my attorney, I provided exhaustive legal opinions complete with a step by step process on how each part of the game requires skill, and how it does not meet the definition of gambling (or even a "real life" investment, stock exchange or security).  Each time I provided information, the attorney representing Linden Lab requested more information.  Each time, my attorney replied.  This went on for another 3 months.

The attorney representing Linden Lab was in agreement that my game was a game of skill, and wasn't a place that qualified as place of investment.  But the problem was that the LL attorney wanted a 40-state review, state by state, on how my game qualified as a game of skill in each specific jurisdiction relating to each states specific laws.  The attorney representing me said their firm was unable to give legal opinions on state laws outside of the states they were qualified to practice in. This meant that I would have had to hire multiple law firms to give a detailed breakdown state by state.  The estimated cost for me to do this was about US$100,000 - clearly unreasonable.  What was clear is that Linden Lab was deliberately making the skill gaming application process so difficult, that no one could get approved after their "favorites" were initially approved in mid/late 2014.  I find it odd that some applicants were approved even before I was contacted by the attorney representing Linden Lab.

After losing thousands of US$ while the game was suspended and with legal bills piling up, combined with not being able to find a law firm that was even willing to take on the job because other applications they helped represent went nowhere even after submitting valid information, I decided to take the game out of Second Life.  It was a difficult decision, but as many of you that read this thread can agree, it was the only option.

Technically my application is still open.  I am still trying to find a law firm able to take on my application, but so far none are willing to even do it because they say it's impossible to get approved, and it would be a further waste of money for me to even try.  So for now, the website offers PayPal to cash in and out, and CapEx uses its own virtual currency(CapEx Dollars).  I don't use Linden Dollars anymore for the game, however I still maintain a presence and land within Second Life in the Foxglove Region.  Perhaps one day my skill gaming application will be approved.  But until then, I'll just operate on the internet.  Luckily, I had that option while most other skill gaming operators that were shut out had nowhere else to go.

I wish all the former skill game operators that were shut down the best of luck in their future endeavors.

 

Skip Oceanlane, CEO

Capital Exchange

www.onlinecapex.com

[Misty Rookstown]

If you look on the wiki it now says in the notes:

" Linden Lab Official:Second Life Skill Gaming FAQ"

"We are no longer accepting new applications to the Second Life Skill Gaming Program at this time. Accordingly, all links to the application have been disabled. Please check back here in the future for any updates."

also on another page it says

"The Skill Gaming Program is currently closed to new Operator and Creator applications. Pending applications submitted prior to April 1, 2015, will be reviewed and processed normally."

If you applied and you they never even responded to you and you had to go through legal channels essentially you had to force them to respond and if you didn't do that they just took your money and made no action. This is typically considered to be a form of fraud and you should request your application fee and legal fees paid back given they would not respond. This has happened with skill game owners also where they applied and LL simply never responded ever.

The situation now given game creators and owners can not apply is that the few businesses that remains (and they are businesses given they can make actual money) have no competitors newcompetiors can appear on the scene. Additionally game owners can't diversify there line up since nobody can apply. And lastly they would not approve a game operator like Jaded who has some of the more skill based games out there to approve while they allow PI games ie Foxy Furman to run effectively what is a slot machine tournament. His games are the least skill based than anything out there. They claim to be player versus player which the only way that is possible is if the players on any given machine everywhere on the grid were playing the exact same play fields including the random 50k in points that players get. His games might as well be full blown slot machines and really the pay out amount is actually determined by a random slot wheel. Lastly it is widely known that the owner lives in a state that skill games are not legal.

LL has created a massive mess and a highly liable situation for themselves so they can continue to profit off of some very obvious games of chance. Solitaire is a great example of a game of skill in SL.

Also this is a mess that should have been addressed back in 2007. LL made zero effort then to keep games within legal terms and they progressively allowed games to become more and more games of chance. More true games of  skill fell to the side and really only a few still remain. Prax and Solitaire are two of the more obvious games of skill.

They also allowed a hack of an attorney who should be disbarred to represent a large number of game owners and creators with a bizzare automated approach to the law. LL profited off of this insanity, they profited off of clearly illegal games including full games of chance when they knew they existed.

 I honestly don't think I can ever trust Linden Labs as making money at all cost  is there MO even if it means they profit off of the law being bent to hell and there actions and inactions directly shaped the entire skill game industry since 2007.

[Misty Rookstown]

LL has clearly stated in policy that games in which you do not pay to play are not within the scope of the skill game policies. You can wager something if your not paying anything so nothing is being risked. I advise against loopholes though but something like ad boards would be ok obviously as long as they are not designed to fuel the machines by the players etc

[DarkSeraphin Ormega]

Ok,I read everything and still cant get into play,I live in California and I have payment history

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Do you live near the border of the state and is your ISP located in Nevada?  If so, you need to change your ISP to an ISP located in California.  If this does not apply and you meet all the requirements, including having entered your RL birth date showing you are of age,when  you registered, then file a support ticket.

[PixieCutLover]

I've been having trouble as well, never saw any "skill gaming region" stuff popping up before in SL but now I have problems going to places. No way is anyone getting my name, phone number address any personal info. 

[sharma Sahara]

Skill Gaming as i believe refers to gambling sims such as gaming and Grid wide Greedy and yes you do need payment info on file in order to access these sites, and you should make sure your not living in a state that does not allow online gambling as you will not be allowed to enter either. 

[sharma Sahara]

pixi sometimes you just need to refresh or update your payment info and it will allow you in. It happens at times and this is the first info i give to those trying to enter my workplace and cant if they dont live in a state that doesnt allow them in.