Survey Threads

[Phil Deakins]

That may be the reason, Maddy, but I think it's more likely that you burn all your bridges - well, all your men, anyway. Roast man can't be the best kind of bed partner. They might be alright as bedwarmers, though, but you'd need to use them before they go cold.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Tex Monday wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Rawwwwrrrrrrrrr. (I learned that from watching Eartha Kitt.)

;-).

 

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Great Scott! You ARE old lol

 

Streuth. I six word post, inlcluding the 'lol', and there was still a typo in it that needed to be edited. I'm absolutely useless at typing.

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 And, unfortunately, she's not even my favorite Catwoman.

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Nor mine: Julie is the one for me, too.

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It's nice to know I'll have no competition for Michelle...

 

[Marigold Devin]

I've heard so often about people who have burned their bridges.

And yet

       I've never

                      seen a bridge actually on fire.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

I've heard so often about people who have burned their bridges.

And yet

       I've never

                      seen a bridge actually on fire.

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To be honest, this isn't quite a compendium of bridges on fire (though you can find those if you'd lift your damned fingers and google "burning bridges"), but watching it does make me purr...

[Marigold Devin]

I've been too darn busy googling Cadbury's "Star Bar", after a lassie in my local old-fashioned newsagents was seen buying one, and I thought they hadn't actually been made since 1986, which meant we'd either time-travelled back to the 1980s, or the dirty old shop keeper had found a really really old box of confectionary in his store room.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

 

 

eta: how this movie only rates 4 stars on IMBD is incredulous

[Phil Deakins]

Why should it rate at all on the International Migratory Bird Day?

 

Maybe it's because many or most of those who voted didn't realise that it was mostly a true story. If it was a work of pure fiction, it probably wouldn't rate very highly.

[Tex Monday]

*laughs hysterically*

 

funny that this is what that video made me think of....

http://www.amiright.com/parody/misc/castof0.shtml

 

ETA: go ahead, sing it. I promise (if you're anything like me) you'll never get that out of your head...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

[Perrie Juran]

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Tex Monday wrote:

*laughs hysterically*

 

funny that this is what that video made me think of....

http://www.amiright.com/parody/misc/castof0.shtml

 

ETA: go ahead, sing it. I promise (if you're anything like me) you'll never get that out of your head...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

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There have been many parady's based on Bridge Over River Kwai.

The theme song, Colonel Bogey March, had lyrics added to it during WW2.

 

"Hitler has only got one ball,

Goring has two but they are very small,

Himmler has something sim'lar,

But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all."

I guess they didn't think they could get away with singing that in the Movie.

p.s.  your link won't let me play whatever it was your linking with downloading some app. 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Kelli May wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Are we hijacking this thread?

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You are, and, as there were very few actual answers to my question, you have my blessing

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Perhaps a lot of people had answers but didn't like the post, so just ignored it.

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That's quite possible.  Though it seems to me that Phil got plenty of answers to his question.  If he's having difficulty formulating a thesis based on the feedback he's received so far, I might suggest that he start his own survey so that he can frame the questions and limit the answers in such a way that the results would be more in line with his way of thinking.

Alternatively, he could just ask himself why he felt it necessary to start a whole thread about posts with which he took issue, instead of just ignoring them and moving on.  Then perhaps, he might be a bit more understanding of why someone else would feel it necessary to comment about the things with which they take issue... like badly constructed surveys.

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

I chose the alternative.

The reason I started this thread is because some of the posts in the other thread were absolutely shameful, and I wondered why people actually choose to be that way when it comes to survey threads that are posted by strangers.

I've seen a few answers to my question, but only a few.

Perhaps some people had answers but didn't want to show themselves up by posting them.

[Ilsko]

seems my attempt to get few answers to that survey makes a lot of noise here. Unfortunately Ive been able to read comments in that survey topic before it was deleted, but Ive read whole 12 sites of this one.

Seems that only few ppl here were able to look at that survey in neutral way, and Im thankful for that. I would also thank Phil for his statements in this topic.

 

Seems that few days ago I should start with this, (that actually was said by Phil Deakins later) maybe then it could be different  " I've said in this thread that the questions in yesterday's survey did appear to have a bias, or a pre-conceived idea about users and SL. I've also said that they weren't really biased because the answer options offered a range from 'Always' to 'Never' - the full spectrum. I've been thinking about the nature of the questions and I've come to the conclusion that someone could wonder IF SL has any negative impacts on users' RLs, and it's a very valid thing to wonder - and create a survey about. "

 

Why Phil's statement is correct according to that surey? Answer is simple. If I, or other ppl who are trying to do surveys in SL would be sure that you ALL are ADDICTED, and SL is devastating your RL we wont be doing that. We would just write about that, nothing more nothing else. But we dont know  how big influence  SL has to RL. Thats way we are trying to ask you, users and ppl that participate in SL. Especially in my country where its almost nothing new, interesting in books about SL.

 

I know that survey was basic, and wasnt amazing or great. Buy for me it wasnt offensive or shaming. And if you think that I would use that results to do some "nasty" things or to mock about you and SL you really should think a while. I dont need to ask you to fulfill survey to write offensive article/thesis or other things about you and SL. Im just simple student. Open minded person, and kind one for others. I used this basic survey, because it contains most important features of RL that can be affected by SL. So why should I not use this one? Yes I could modify it harder, use other words, but in overall it would give me same answers. And we all know that there are more interesting things to do then write same question in other words. Its quite pointless work.

 

I dont want to say that all ppl here are like this but seems that a lot of SL users have problems to just BELIEVE, and TRUST to other ppl, especially from outside. We are all humans and we all apart from VR life in Rworld so we should think how we will survive next few decades, how we can provide peace, welfare to our next generations if we dont have basic trust to ppl that we just met, and are new in our community. We lives in democratic countries, so we should have some kind of trust to each others, its quite basic rule of democracy.

 

I remember time when SL was brought to life, when it was growing, when ppl were astonished about it, when first ppl get real money form it. Of course in my country it wasnt so popular, and its still not. But what have happend now? When the times come that we can say that only the strongest survived, and new ones after 1 or 2 months are vanishing. Have any of you ever think about that?

Maybe because SL became a elite VR, where all new comers are treated in unpleasant way or just arent allow to fit here.

 

One of SL users (Lexia Moonstone) wrote in this topic : "I've all ways wondered how many surveys in LS have ended up being abandoned or came to the conclusion that people in SL are rude,   and because of the negative responses how many people doing surveys ever come back to SL.  People doing RL education and surveys in SL is a great way to get them over the never logging in a second time thing that happens with some many new people in SL.  May be there would be more people in SL if we  welcomed them instead of posting lots of negative comments."

 

And I will agree with that in 100%. As all we know, to most important in new relationships is first impression.

So after when I appeared here, read what you wrote what can  say about SL community? For sure lot.

 

I dont mind to read a lot of criticism, but only when its constructive. Unfortunately, as I said I wasnt be able to read all comments in that deleted thread. So if there were some constructive posts with criticism Im really sad that I couldnt read them and answer.

 

And yes, English is my second language, thats way Im making some mistakes. And Im not afraid about that. Human thing is to make mistakes.  I choose ENG forum to post that survey because its most active one. Apart from that SL was created in US, so it was natural to ask SL "home" users about that.

 

One more thing. Its really hard to include all thoughts and answers to all post in this topic, but Im trying

Im studing social science (specialization social politic and social work) thats way that survey looked like it looked, thats way I was trying to ask you about that stuff. As some of you can know. Topic of thesis and field of study leaves you a narrow path to maneuver.  I wanted to write about Virtual reality in our lives, how it influence our life, and so on, but unfortunately I was forced to make it more matched, close to social politic, and in overall to social problems and my field of studies. And i have this. But its only statement,  hypothesis that SL or virtual reality can have bad influence on our RL. As we all know, hypothesis are sometimes wrong, sometimes accurate, and this survey, maybe to basic, maybe in some way to offensive (but really I cant see in witch part. even for me virtual realty user it wasnt offencive at all), maybe "does not apply" was wrong choice, should be able to confirm or overthrow that hypothesis.

 

I was trying to ask you, so it means that I didnt have any stereotypes about you at all. As a young person i'm approaching to anyone that I see first time as open minded human. I dont believe in stereotypes and i dont look at new met ppl through them.

Have a good day or night.

Cheers

[Dresden Ceriano]

I didn't see your thread, so I can't comment about the substance of your survey.  But, I will point out that, over the years in which Second Life has been in existence, there have been countless requests for survey participants posted to the present and previous incarnations of this forum.  After a while, it gets to the point where some of us start thinking that people such as yourself are only interested in turning us into your own personal Guinea pigs.

This is especially true of students who haven't taken the time to learn enough about the platform to be able to formulate a coherent, cognizant survey or one that doesn't paint us as some abnormal group of freaks with whom there obviously must be something wrong, just for being here in the first place.  If you can't understand why some might take offense to being considered in such a manner, perhaps a few classes in human psychology would be in order for next semester.

...Dres

[CheriColette]

 

[Phil Deakins]

I don't understand why some people here take offense at surveys. It doesn't make any sense. None of them have ever treated us like guinea pigs, even though some people here like to think they have, so there is absolutely no reason to take offense. By far the best way in any world - RL and SL - is to treat people as you find them, until they show themselves to be something different, which this student did not, or until you learn some other way that they are something different.

Stranger: "Hello. Do you enjoy Second Life?"

One of us: "What do think I am? A lab rat?"

How wrong a response is that from a civilised person?

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

The very fact that we get so many requests can, over time, make people feel that way... that's just the way it is.  Personally, I don't care one way or the other.  I'm just offering you an answer to the first part of your original question.  And as for the second part, about why people comment instead of just ignoring them, I've already offered you a reason by suggesting that you ask yourself why you started this thread instead of just ignoring whatever comments you thought were negative.  Once you answer that for yourself, then you might be able to apply that to others and understand why they don't just ignore things they don't like as well.

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

By far the best way in any world - RL and SL - is to treat people as you find them, until they show themselves to be something different, which this student did not, or until you learn some other way that they are something different.

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When all that is known about a person is what they've written in one post on a forum, that one post is the only basis with which one can assess that person's character.  You may assess their character one way, while others may assess it another... neither you nor they need necessarily be wrong in your assessments.  Perhaps once you accept and internalize this, you won't be as troubled by other people's differing opinions as you seem to be by them now.

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Stranger: "Hello. How bad is your addiction to Second Life?"

One of us: "Oh, go eff yourself!"

How wrong a response is that from a normal person?

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FIFY.

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

You seem to be defending the indefensible. Ok. It's pointless arguing.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You seem to be defending the indefensible. Ok. It's pointless arguing.

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I was providing you with an explanation, not a defense and I certainly wasn't arguing with anybody.

But, since you brought it up... what's actually indefensible is someone starting a thread to ask questions for which they're unwilling to accept any answers, because, in reality, all they were really interested in doing was bitching and moaning about how mean people can be and casting themselves as holier-than-thou because they wouldn't even dream of ever being the slightest bit critical of anyone at any time.

So, yeah... it's pointless.  Beside being slightly amusing, this whole thread has been pointless from it's very inception.

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

So the answer to my question is that some people here are simply nasty when surveys come along. That's pretty much my opinion too. And they don't mind being seen to be nasty to people who do nothing to deserve such treatment. It's absolutely shameful.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

So the answer to my question is that some people here are simply nasty when surveys come along.

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Bingo!

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

And they don't mind being seen to be nasty to people who do nothing to deserve such treatment.

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While you may see these surveyors as being undeserving of such treatment, others do not... which means that they are not being "nasty" just for the sake of doing so, as you seem to want to suggest.

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

It's absolutely shameful.

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This statement perfectly represents the part of my observation of your attitude which bothers me the most.  I believe I've already made my opinion perfectly clear on this matter, therefore, I shall refrain from reiterating it once again... especially for the benefit of someone who so willfully chooses to obfuscate reality in order to suit his own misguided agenda.

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

You can say what you like, Dreden, but being nasty to people who have done nothing to deserve it is absolutely shameful. I have no agenda in this. It's just a matter of fact, and not even debateable. That's a reply to your last paragraph.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

While you may see these surveyors as being undeserving of such treatment, others do not

...

which means that they are not being "nasty" just for the sake of doing so, as you seem to want to suggest.

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Then others are wrong, and they are being nasty just for the sake of it. They see a survey and they just pile in without a thought for the reality of it. It's become almost automatic and very much expected. Such shameful behaviour.

Just to add, if anyone thinks that students who post surveys deserve people being nasty to them, please explain what they do that deserves it. Their posts are perfectly polite. Nobody has even attempted to suggest a reason. We've had people saying that they get fed up with surveys being posted here, and that that causes them to react they way they do, but that's a flaw within them and not the students' doing. If the few surveys we get here, and it really is only a few, can cause people to turn nasty, then there's something wrong with those people because it's simply not normal.

 

[Freya Mokusei]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

being nasty to people who have done nothing to deserve it

Then others are wrong,

and they are being nasty just for the sake of it.

They see a survey and they just pile in without a thought for the reality of it.

Their posts are perfectly polite.

it really is only a few

it's simply not normal.

 

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It's important for you to remember that the above determinations are subjective to you. 'Normal' on this forum is exactly what happens here every day, that's how culture works. It is difficult for a culture to be 'wrong' - or maybe it's just difficult to generalise this.

I find it interesting that you say no-one's given reasoning - that's not been my interpretation of this thread. Perhaps you are not accepting that reasoning? You seem very quick to dismiss things as 'just for the sake of it', and that is especially unfortunate in a thread where you seem to be hoping for explanations. I don't think any of the above helps you to understand.

I know I don't owe anyone on this forum explanations for the way I post. I don't consider my posting style to be harsh, upsetting or nasty, and any attempt for anyone to class it as such is irrelevent to me. As I've said before though, I'm surprised that your opinion of the normal way that surveys are treated - the every day behaviour of forum users as a group - induces within you shame and revulsion. I don't think this is something many other users here feel while reading and responding to a survey thread, so I posit that your reaction is the non-normal in this instance.

I hope this post is interpreted as intended - it's not a dig against you, and I'm not saying (at all) that unpopular opinions are unwelcome. But I am trying to say that your position is an unpopular opinion, judging mostly on the comparison in reactions here - vs. the ones that appear in survey threads. Note that in the threads themselves, people are open and provide explanations for their determinations against the students, even providing semi-constructive (semi because it doesn't appear constructive to you) feedback - in this thread responses have been 'closed', and feedback has typically not been as clear or 'helpful' to your understanding. I'm not saying people haven't tried, but it's not been as conducive to your understanding as I would've expected.

I'll grant you that it may not appear as 'nice and friendly' as you woudl like in every case, but I don't know where this expectation to be nice and friendly comes from. I don't personally think it stands up to tests or reality, but you're of course welcome to manage your own Second Life according to whatever expectations you choose. I can appreciate the value of venting about this, as your expectations don't seem to meet reality. I think if you hope to understand this, you should avoid condemning it as 'wrong' and 'terrible', as this doesn't encourage anyone to explain themselves to you. Catch more flies with honey (and the irony of this is not lost on me).

I have seen great value in this thread, I hope that with a slight consideration of other perspectives you can get the same value. I am not certain you will love the result as much as I, but that's how cultural understanding can go.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You can say what you like, Dreden, but being nasty to people who have done nothing to deserve it is absolutely shameful. I have no agenda in this. It's just a matter of fact, and not even debateable. That's a reply to your last paragraph.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

While you may see these surveyors as being undeserving of such treatment, others do not

...

which means that they are not being "nasty" just for the sake of doing so, as you seem to want to suggest.

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Then others are wrong,

and they are being nasty just for the sake of it. They see a survey and they just pile in without a thought for the reality of it. It's become almost automatic and very much expected. Such shameful behaviour.

Just to add, if anyone thinks that students who post surveys deserve people being nasty to them, please explain what they do that deserves it. Their posts are perfectly polite. Nobody has even attempted to suggest a reason. We've had people saying that they get fed up with surveys being posted here, and that that causes them to react they way they do, but that's a flaw within them and not the students' doing. If the few surveys we get here, and it really is only a few, can cause people to turn nasty, then there's something wrong with those people because it's simply not normal.

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Are you kidding me?  I mean, honestly... is this for real?

Alright then, Phil... please continue living in your fantasy world, you're obviously more comfortable there than having to actually face reality.

...Dres

[Tex Monday]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Just to add, if anyone thinks that students who post surveys deserve people being nasty to them, please explain what they do that deserves it. Their posts are perfectly polite. Nobody has even attempted to suggest a reason. We've had people saying that they get fed up with surveys being posted here, and that that causes them to react they way they do, but that's a flaw within them and not the students' doing. If the few surveys we get here, and it really is only a few, can cause people to turn nasty, then there's something wrong with those people because it's simply not normal.

 

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.

 I should add, first of all Phil, that I do respect that you are standing up and supporting the students who post. The opinion, as stated a few times, is an unpopular one so you have my admiration for it.

That being said, I've stated earlier why I am...maybe not nasty, but testy...to students who post here. I think they're lazy. I think these are people who have no idea about second life and just pop in to ask questions of us. I think that most, if not all, of these posters have never logged in once. Asking questions is a good way to find things out...but getting out there and seeing what SL is like is a better basis before asking questions. That's my only issue with this. If they had been around a little while....even a month or so...made friends, explored and THEN asked questions, I probably wouldn't be so annoyed at them.

Normal is a relative term. People react differently to different things and they consider it "normal". Hot button issues like Gay Marriage and Abortion come to mind...One person considers it "normal" to allow a woman the right to choose while another considers it "normal" to blow up a clinic. (and please....let's not derail this thread with those two topics and I apologize if I pushed any buttons. That is not my intention. It is just an example, as extreme as it may be).

As I said, Phil..I respect your opinions and admire that you're standing up for these people as you are. It is the minority, though...no matter what you do to try to sway it.

[Perrie Juran]

 

And people wonder why sometimes we seem snobby.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/No-stipend-this-week/m-p/2740586#M183370

 

OK, I know I'm not immune to dumb azz attacks either but when you wear out the eraser before the pencil you are over doing it.