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Phil Deakins wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:

Well, as the only people who read the education subforum tend to be educators, it would mean students surveying their professors.


Maybe the profs wouldn't take the surveys.

From your survey results so far, it would mean students surveying Perrie, Tex, and me.

I think the three of us can fairly represent the rest of you sick weirdos.

;-).

Excuse me? Don't I count any more?

(No link provided. Scroll and find my survey submission yourself. I'm not doing the work for you).

You are a bonus question, Phil.

:-)

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


 

Well, she IS pretty.

What a wonderful thing for you to say!

 

I'm in agreement. Laskya just left out a dot. After that it should have read 'And notorious. And nefarious.'

 

Also relentless and ruthless (as in having not one singe ruth), but maybe it's best not to work through the whole alphabet. Leave it at 'n'. I skipped to 'r' and things were coming out of the woodwork.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


 

Well, she IS pretty.

What a wonderful thing for you to say!

 

I'm in agreement. Laskya just left out a dot. After that it should have read 'And notorious. And nefarious.'

 

Also relentless and ruthless (as in having not one singe ruth), but maybe it's best not to work through the whole alphabet. Leave it at 'n'. I skipped to 'r' and things were coming out of the woodwork.

The "creative edit" here is precisely why Maddy is notoriously nefarious.

(Or nefariously notorious?)

;-)

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

I see the possibilities for a new survey here.

"Who, in your opinion, is the most representative sick weirdo in Second Life?"

 

 
  1. Madelaine McMasters
  2. Perrie Juran
  3. Tex Monday
  4. Dillon Levenque
  5. This survey is badly designed, they're called "residents," not sick weirdos, and how much will you pay me for answering this?

 On advise of my attorney, I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it may incriminate me (and that I just MIGHT be the sick weirdo that people think I am) :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I don't understand why some people here take offense at surveys. It doesn't make any sense. None of them have ever treated us like guinea pigs, even though some people here like to think they have, so there is
absolutely
no reason to take offense. By far the best way in any world - RL and SL - is to treat people as you find them, until they show themselves to be something different, which this student did not, or until you learn some other way that they are something different.

Stranger: "Hello. Do you enjoy Second Life?"

One of us: "What do think I am? A lab rat?"

How wrong a response is that from a civilised person?

 

If you were to go to your local pub every night for dinner and a relaxing time with your friends and saw a different person out front every night with a clipboard asking questions of all who entered, wouldn't that start to frost you?

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Not in the slightest, Drake, because I'd just walk past and into the pub every time. Just like I walk past most surveys in the forum; i.e. the moment I see what it is, I ignore it because I generally don't do surveys. How difficult is that?

 Good point...but what if each of these people kept ASKING you? Even though you're good at walking past them, wouldn't you get annoyed at being asked all the time?

Day 1..Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 2  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 3  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 4  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 5  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 6 Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

(Get my point???)

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Then I'd simply shake my head, or just say "No", and walk on. Nobody can annoy anyone on the street like that unless the person wants to get annoyed. And nobody can annoy anyone in the forum by posting a survey, again unless the person wants to get annoyed. It's not as if it's 'our' forum and other people aren't allowed to post here. It's not 'our' forum and anyone with an account can post in it. And it's not as if posting a survey forces anyone to respond. Responding, both good and bad, is by personal choice. It really isn't difficult to ignore threads that have no interest for us. We do it all the time. Such threads don't get in anybody's way, and they don't force anyone to respond.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Then I'd simply shake my head, or just say "No", and walk on. Nobody can annoy anyone on the street like that unless the person wants to get annoyed. And nobody can annoy anyone in the forum by posting a survey, again unless the person wants to get annoyed. It's not as if it's 'our' forum and other people aren't allowed to post here. It's not 'our' forum and anyone with an account can post in it. And it's not as if posting a survey forces anyone to respond. Responding, both good and bad, is by personal choice. It really isn't difficult to ignore threads that have no interest for us. We do it all the time. Such threads don't get in anybody's way, and they don't force anyone to respond.

 Well, maybe that's the difference between people from the UK and people from the US. I guess you tend to be more tolerant of things like that while we...well, maybe aren't...

:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

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If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance is the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, because nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse the intolerance that some people show to those who post surveys here. Neither would it excuse any intolerance shown towards the hypothetical people doing surveys outside pubs.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, beccause nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse intolerance.

I am from the US and I would not say that grouping people from the US into that type of category is necessarily true. That is like saying the reverse and lumping agroup of people into a category where in all honesty it only represents a handful. I agree, it is not an excuse or IMO valid or true.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

I don't understand why some people here take offense at surveys. It doesn't make any sense. None of them have ever treated us like guinea pigs, even though some people here like to think they have, so there is
absolutely
no reason to take offense. By far the best way in any world - RL and SL - is to treat people as you find them, until they show themselves to be something different, which this student did not, or until you learn some other way that they are something different.

Stranger: "Hello. Do you enjoy Second Life?"

One of us: "What do think I am? A lab rat?"

How wrong a response is that from a civilised person?

 

If you were to go to your local pub every night for dinner and a relaxing time with your friends and saw a different person out front every night with a clipboard asking questions of all who entered, wouldn't that start to frost you?

The survey takers are not out front. You must choose to open and read their posts, and nobody will know if you do that or not . They don't survey us every day.

Your analogy is a stretch, Drake. Though when I walked through the local shopping mall years ago, there always seemed to be a surveyist with a clipboard in the central court. S/he was so easy to avoid that I thought nothing of it. I do know someone who complained about those mall surveys. When I suggested that she was not compelled to take them, she scoffed at me.

I'm in agreement with Phil on this. It's so easy to avoid the students and their surveys that not doing so in order to berate them says more about us than the students. I have read three papers by students who've come here to ask questions, two were undergraduate term papers, the other a Master's Thesis. All were well done.

If SL is worth studying, it'll be studied.

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Tex Monday wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Not in the slightest, Drake, because I'd just walk past and into the pub every time. Just like I walk past most surveys in the forum; i.e. the moment I see what it is, I ignore it because I generally don't do surveys. How difficult is that?

 Good point...but what if each of these people kept ASKING you? Even though you're good at walking past them, wouldn't you get annoyed at being asked all the time?

Day 1..Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 2  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 3  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 4  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 5  Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

Day 6 Excuse me, do you have time for a survey?

(Get my point???)

Has this ever happened here, Tex? Your analogy equates to getting IMs. I've never got an IM asking me to take a survey. I have no interest in lolas or fat asses, but seeing the endless questions about them here in the forum doesn't bother me in the least. Why don't we get upset over the countless SL residents who pile into the forum, one after another, asking where their stipend is? A cursory scan of the thread titles would tell them they're flogging a dead horse. If the students are lazy and oblivious, they're in good company.

I could not blame anyone for wondering if/why we're hypersensitive about SL surveys.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance is the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, because nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse the intolerance that some people show to those who post surveys here. Neither would it excuse any intolerance shown towards the hypothetical people doing surveys outside pubs.

  Well, you're probably right and I'm obviously a very bad person...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3: It goes along with the image (at least IMHO) that UK people are more tolerant than people from the US. It may be my incorrect image, as I've never been over there, but it's one that I have regardless.

 @Maddy

If you get enough IMs, don't you get annoyed at them..even if you never actually say it to the person who's annoying you? If someone approached me every day for a week (as Drake's post asked) after about 6 days, I'd definitely stop and tell him to leave me alone! And didn't he understand that I don't want to answer your damn questions? Now granted, the forums have different students asking the question....that would be as if a different survey taker bothered you every time you went out..but still, you'd ask them to tell their boss to have you leave them alone, even if it didn't work.

Again, maybe that makes me a bad person...I don't know. But I did give a homeless guy a dollar while I was out at lunch today, so maybe I'm not so bad....

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Tex Monday wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance is the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, because nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse the intolerance that some people show to those who post surveys here. Neither would it excuse any intolerance shown towards the hypothetical people doing surveys outside pubs.

  Well, you're probably right and I'm obviously a very bad person...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3: It goes along with the image (at least IMHO) that UK people are more tolerant than people from the US. It may be my incorrect image, as I've never been over there, but it's one that I have regardless.

 @Maddy

If you get enough IMs, don't you get annoyed at them..even if you never actually say it to the person who's annoying you? If someone approached me every day for a week (as Drake's post asked) after about 6 days, I'd definitely stop and tell him to leave me alone! And didn't he understand that I don't want to answer your damn questions? Now granted, the forums have different students asking the question....that would be as if a different survey taker bothered you every time you went out..but still, you'd ask them to tell their boss to have you leave them alone, even if it didn't work.

Again, maybe that makes me a bad person...I don't know. But I did give a homeless guy a dollar while I was out at lunch today, so maybe I'm not so bad....

If someone kept IMing me, I'd do something about it. But that's not what's happening with student surveys. Posting a survey in the forum is not like receiving an IM. Once an IM window pops up, I know someone is expecting a reply from me and I must do something to address it, even if that's only dismissing the IM window. A survey post in the forums does not get in my way. It requires no expenditure of time or energy on my part. There is no need to dismiss it. I ignore it, as I do for the majority of posts here.

I think Drake's analogy was a stretch, and your recasting of it is heading even further in the wrong direction.

If you don't know whether you're a bad person, you're probably not. It's those who know they aren't that make me wonder.

;-).

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Tex Monday wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance is the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, because nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse the intolerance that some people show to those who post surveys here. Neither would it excuse any intolerance shown towards the hypothetical people doing surveys outside pubs.

  Well, you're probably right and I'm obviously a very bad person...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3: It goes along with the image (at least IMHO) that UK people are more tolerant than people from the US. It may be my incorrect image, as I've never been over there, but it's one that I have regardless.

 @Maddy

If you get enough IMs, don't you get annoyed at them..even if you never actually say it to the person who's annoying you? If someone approached me every day for a week (as Drake's post asked) after about 6 days, I'd definitely stop and tell him to leave me alone! And didn't he understand that I don't want to answer your damn questions? Now granted, the forums have different students asking the question....that would be as if a different survey taker bothered you every time you went out..but still, you'd ask them to tell their boss to have you leave them alone, even if it didn't work.

Again, maybe that makes me a bad person...I don't know. But I did give a homeless guy a dollar while I was out at lunch today, so maybe I'm not so bad....

Tex, how are they "annoying" you, exactly? They create a thread, but to read it, you have to actively open it. In other words, you have to actively take the initiative to put yourself in the position of being "annoyed."

Surely the mere appearance in the forum list of a thread entitled something like "Please Do My Survey" is not in itself enough to warrant "annoyance"?

And how often does it happen, really? Certainly not every day. Maybe once a week, on the entire forum? Tops?

 

I'm not sure how the tolerance of Americans compares to that of Brits -- the recent electoral successes of UKIP suggest the British may not have much to boast about in that regard!

But the Americans with whom I am acquainted personally are some of the most generous people I know. :-)

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Tex Monday wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance is the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, because nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse the intolerance that some people show to those who post surveys here. Neither would it excuse any intolerance shown towards the hypothetical people doing surveys outside pubs.

  Well, you're probably right and I'm obviously a very bad person...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3: It goes along with the image (at least IMHO) that UK people are more tolerant than people from the US. It may be my incorrect image, as I've never been over there, but it's one that I have regardless.

 @Maddy

If you get enough IMs, don't you get annoyed at them..even if you never actually say it to the person who's annoying you? If someone approached me every day for a week (as Drake's post asked) after about 6 days, I'd definitely stop and tell him to leave me alone! And didn't he understand that I don't want to answer your damn questions? Now granted, the forums have different students asking the question....that would be as if a different survey taker bothered you every time you went out..but still, you'd ask them to tell their boss to have you leave them alone, even if it didn't work.

Again, maybe that makes me a bad person...I don't know. But I did give a homeless guy a dollar while I was out at lunch today, so maybe I'm not so bad....

Drake's idea of someone outside a pub every day isn't analogous to the survey threads here, because it doesn't happen every day or every week here and, when it does happen, nobody approaches you asking if you'll do their survey. Nobody. The pub people wouldn't annoy me because it only lasts for about 1 second each time, literally, as I say "no" and walk into the pub. That really shouldn't annoy anyone.

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

If that's true, Tex, then it's a very poor reflection on people in the U.S. It's not alright to be intolerant. Intolerance is a badness. But I don't believe that intolerance is the norm over there. I think that we can all show intolerance given the circumstance, because nobody is perfect, and that some people (the less perfect ones) are likely to show it sooner than others.

No Tex, being a U.S. citizen does not excuse the intolerance that some people show to those who post surveys here. Neither would it excuse any intolerance shown towards the hypothetical people doing surveys outside pubs.

It's a very bad categorization of people here.

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

Tex, how are they "annoying" you, exactly? They create a thread, but to read it, 
you
have to actively open it. In other words, you have to actively take the initiative to put yourself in the position of being "annoyed."

Surely the mere appearance in the forum list of a thread entitled something like "Please Do My Survey" is not in itself enough to warrant "annoyance"?

And how often 
does
it happen, really? Certainly not every day. Maybe once a week, on the entire forum? Tops?

 

 The only way to answer that question is to compare it to solicitation calls. "Microsoft" calls you and tells you that you have a bug in your system...obviously you don't (after all, why would a huge US company be calling you and that person have an Indian accent? :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:) The calls come every so often, but they are still annoying when they show up on your caller ID. You can choose to ignore the call or choose to pick it up and blast a foghorn in the person's ear...your choice. (I've never done that...but I did make unwanted sexual advances towards them..just for fun)

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Tex Monday wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:

Tex, how are they "annoying" you, exactly? They create a thread, but to read it, 
you
have to actively open it. In other words, you have to actively take the initiative to put yourself in the position of being "annoyed."

Surely the mere appearance in the forum list of a thread entitled something like "Please Do My Survey" is not in itself enough to warrant "annoyance"?

And how often 
does
it happen, really? Certainly not every day. Maybe once a week, on the entire forum? Tops?

 

 The only way to answer that question is to compare it to solicitation calls. "Microsoft" calls you and tells you that you have a bug in your system...obviously you don't (after all, why would a huge US company be calling you and that person have an Indian accent? :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:) The calls come every so often, but they are still annoying when they show up on your caller ID. You can choose to ignore the call or choose to pick it up and blast a foghorn in the person's ear...your choice. (I've never done that...but I did make unwanted sexual advances towards them..just for fun)

That's not really a very fair analogy, Tex. A phone call, even one that goes to voice mail, is disruptive. It's noisy, and it screams "Answer me!"

By contrast, a survey thread is perhaps 2 or three lines of text, immersed noiselessly in a sea of other identical-looking posts. It's not even really visual pollution (I miss seeing threads all of the time!), and it's certainly not "demanding" of attention in the way that a phone call is. Ignoring it -- or even just unintentionally missing it -- is easy.

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Tex Monday wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:

Tex, how are they "annoying" you, exactly? They create a thread, but to read it, 
you
have to actively open it. In other words, you have to actively take the initiative to put yourself in the position of being "annoyed."

Surely the mere appearance in the forum list of a thread entitled something like "Please Do My Survey" is not in itself enough to warrant "annoyance"?

And how often 
does
it happen, really? Certainly not every day. Maybe once a week, on the entire forum? Tops?

 

 The only way to answer that question is to compare it to solicitation calls. "Microsoft" calls you and tells you that you have a bug in your system...obviously you don't (after all, why would a huge US company be calling you and that person have an Indian accent? :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:) The calls come every so often, but they are still annoying when they show up on your caller ID. You can choose to ignore the call or choose to pick it up and blast a foghorn in the person's ear...your choice. (I've never done that...but I did make unwanted sexual advances towards them..just for fun)

That's also not a valid comparison, Tex.

Survey posts don't interrupt me. I don't have to push a button to silence the ringer or endure the noise until they hang up, potentially leaving me a voice mail I've got to delete. To avoid a survey post, I have to do... nothing.

I'm with Phil and Laskya in wondering what it is about not being coerced to do anything at all that annoys people. Where's the outrage over Hippie's "Where are all my friends?" thread, which contains thousands of posts of no interest to almost everyone here?

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

That's not really a very fair analogy, Tex. A phone call, even one that goes to voice mail, isdisruptive. It's noisy, and it screams "Answer me!"

By contrast, a survey thread is perhaps 2 or three lines of text, immersed noiselessly in a sea of other identical-looking posts. It's not even really visual pollution (I miss seeing threads all of the time!), and it's certainly not "demanding" of attention in the way that a phone call is. Ignoring it -- or even just unintentionally missing it -- is easy.

 

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

That's also not a valid comparison, Tex.

Survey posts don't interrupt me. I don't have to push a button to silence the ringer or endure the noise until they hang up, potentially leaving me a voice mail I've got to delete. To avoid a survey post, I have to do... nothing.

I'm with Phil and Laskya in wondering what it is about not being coerced to do anything at all that annoys people. Where's the outrage over Hippie's "Where are all my friends?" thread, which contains thousands of posts of no interest to almost everyone here?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow....two posts from two people with the same "That's not a valid comparison" quote...has to be a record!!:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

And you may be correct...but, if you're going through the threads and have an aversion to surveys and one shows up, it may be interupting and annoying.

Be that as it may, I can't and won't argue with your comparison. I feel it is the same..and I still wish to take a virtual bullhorn to some of the students posting surveys here.

And did you notice how I successfully took the flames of abuse away from Phil and planted them firmly on myself??

(You're welcome, by the way....:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:)

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Tex Monday wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:

Tex, how are they "annoying" you, exactly? They create a thread, but to read it, 
you
have to actively open it. In other words, you have to actively take the initiative to put yourself in the position of being "annoyed."

Surely the mere appearance in the forum list of a thread entitled something like "Please Do My Survey" is not in itself enough to warrant "annoyance"?

And how often 
does
it happen, really? Certainly not every day. Maybe once a week, on the entire forum? Tops?

 

 The only way to answer that question is to compare it to solicitation calls. "Microsoft" calls you and tells you that you have a bug in your system...obviously you don't (after all, why would a huge US company be calling you and that person have an Indian accent? :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:) The calls come every so often, but they are still annoying when they show up on your caller ID. You can choose to ignore the call or choose to pick it up and blast a foghorn in the person's ear...your choice. (I've never done that...but I did make unwanted sexual advances towards them..just for fun)

That's also not a valid comparison, Tex.

Survey posts don't interrupt me. I don't have to push a button to silence the ringer or endure the noise until they hang up, potentially leaving me a voice mail I've got to delete. To avoid a survey post, I have to do... nothing.

I'm with Phil and Laskya in wondering what it is about not being coerced to do anything at all that annoys people. Where's the outrage over Hippie's "Where are all my friends?" thread, which contains thousands of posts of no interest to almost everyone here?

That one i will answer.. Hippie is just being mellow and having fun, chit chatting about anything under the sun and inviting friendships to blossom. Surveys scream at ignorance and wanting us to fill out asinine questionnaires that usually have no bearing on SL and are the most basic inane questions about things anyone that spent 5 minutes in SL would know. (one of them asked how much we eat and exercise in SL to stay fit... seriously.) I don't think we would mind them so much if they were well thought out and pertinent to SL.

How many of them are generic MMORPG questions? One that have nothing to do with SL. Hell, one of them was full of WoW questions and when this was pointed out they said "It's the same thing."

The biggest gripe is the students treat us like it's our problem they have the wrong questions. They want us to tailor the questionnaire to fit SL. That is their job.

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