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Is it always this bad?


Vulpinus
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I've been here for about a week now, and have even spent some money and would spend more probably, but....

The number of glitches, crashes, forced log-outs, and just really slow performance is ridiculous.


So far, it seems almost a 50-50 chance of being logged out if I try to teleport.

I've been trying for twenty minutes just now to change my outfit to another one I have saved. It's loaded part of it but not finished. This happens regularly, to the extent that I dread making changes to my appearance. Just changing an item of clothing can take several minutes. This is particularly annoying because I've spent a fair bit of money on posh outfits for Frank's.

Often, when I log back in after a forced logout I don't get my avatar back properly; usually a grey face and other parts. More so a problem because of the above if I try to make any changes to bring it back.

When trying to view profiles, my own and other people's, I get either an SSL or a "Your browser isn't accepting cookies' error more often than not. I've logged in using explorer so have the certificate. If I try repeatedly, I'll eventually get the page to open but it can take several tries. Occasionally it will work first time to catch me out.

This has been going on since I started. It does seem time-dependent. In the morning, it seems better but I'm on mainly in the evening.

For what it's worth, I have an i7 CPU at about 3GHz, 16GB RAM, an nVidia graphics card that was top of the range 18 months ago and a serious internet connection (easy 20Mbps, routed subnet IP block). My PC is fine; I'm a network and server geek! I've reinstalled the software, and had an automatic update too.  The PC recently had a clean re-install.

In the prefences, I've upped the maximum network speed to the max, but rarely see more than a trickle of data to my SL viewer once logged in. I'm loading my inventory before doing anything as I've read helps. I've also tried (repeatedly) clearing the cache.


So, is it always like this? I would love to be told there is something I'm doing wrong, but really, I doubt it.

 

Edit to add: I forgot a few other glitches, especially that have occured in the 'hunt the crystals and dodge the rock monsters' realms (where I was trying to earn some cash). I haven't even managed to complete one because of either being logged out or having my avatar refuse to stop walking in a straight line, as if I'm pressing the button down. I'm not.

 

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Welcome to Second Life Forums.

I'd say most of your problems are due to your internet service. The 'crashes', forced log-outs, and slow performance, returning and seeing a grey face/partially-rezzed avatar. 

More people are probably sharing your broadband service in the evening than in the morning/daytime (my own internet service provider informed me that 7-10pm is what they see as peak usage time, and I certainly see a reduced performance during those hours).

All those darn Facebookers, Twit-to-woos, and internet dating enthusiasts - grrrhhh!!!

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Vulpinus wrote:

I've been here for about a week now, and have even spent some money and would spend more probably, but....

The number of glitches, crashes, forced log-outs, and just really slow performance is ridiculous.

 

So far, it seems almost a 50-50 chance of being logged out if I try to teleport.

I've been trying for twenty minutes just now to change my outfit to another one I have saved. It's loaded part of it but not finished. This happens regularly, to the extent that I dread making changes to my appearance. Just changing an item of clothing can take several minutes. This is particularly annoying because I've spent a fair bit of money on posh outfits for Frank's.

Often, when I log back in after a forced logout I don't get my avatar back properly; usually a grey face and other parts. More so a problem because of the above if I try to make any changes to bring it back.

When trying to view profiles, my own and other people's, I get either an SSL or a "Your browser isn't accepting cookies' error more often than not. I've logged in using explorer so have the certificate. If I try repeatedly, I'll eventually get the page to open but it can take several tries. Occasionally it will work first time to catch me out.

This has been going on since I started. It does seem time-dependent. In the morning, it seems better but I'm on mainly in the evening.

For what it's worth, I have an i7 CPU at about 3GHz, 16GB RAM, an nVidia graphics card that was top of the range 18 months ago and a serious internet connection (easy 20Mbps, routed subnet IP block). My PC is fine; I'm a network and server geek! I've reinstalled the software, and had an automatic update too.  The PC recently had a clean re-install.

In the prefences, I've upped the maximum network speed to the max, but rarely see more than a trickle of data to my SL viewer once logged in. I'm loading my inventory before doing anything as I've read helps. I've also tried (repeatedly) clearing the cache.

 

So, is it always like this? I would love to be told there is something I'm doing wrong, but really, I doubt it.

 

Edit to add: I forgot a few other glitches, especially that have occured in the 'hunt the crystals and dodge the rock monsters' realms (where I was trying to earn some cash). I haven't even managed to complete one because of either being logged out or having my avatar refuse to stop walking in a straight line, as if I'm pressing the button down. I'm not.

 

What you're describing is a connection issue. I don't see what you're seeing and my connection is, on paper, much less impressive than yours. SL uses a rather unusual connection scheme and often has large number of HTTP connections open simultaneously and constantly opens and closes new ones. It can have the communications profile of a small business, actually.  It may be that things you're doing as a server geek are actually making you shoot yourself in the foot when it comes to SL because it doesn't act the way you expect it to. For starters, try going to the "Develop" menu (Ctrl - Alt -Q if you don't see it) and turn off "Use HTTP Textures."

How are you logging in? You aren't trying to run the viewer through a web browser, are you? Viewers are designed to act as standalone programs.

Also, clearing cache is counterproductive for anything other than known instances of corrupt textures or misloaded inventory.  It became a sort of voodoo cure a while ago but it isn't really a good idea most of the time.

 

 

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[Reply to second post]

Seriously? I'm not arguing with you as such, because I suppose it's possible.

However, I can download constantly right now at 20Mbyte/s on usenet or ftp (just tested it, not actually doing it right now). My latency isn't the best because I refuse to pay extra for the 'expedited, gaming' service, but I've never noticed it causing any issues. Other than that I have a good service; no traffic shaping or filtering, true unlimitted, etc. I run a Cisco 1841 router here so that's not a bottle neck.

I'll hit my ISP forum and see what they say about it.

 

Edit: I was tryping as the third post came in. So:


I'm not actually running much in the way of external services or anything clever. I have them turned off most of the time on my server.

I'm loading the viewer (Second Life 3.7.3) as an executable from the installed shortcut,

I'll try what you suggested. Another thing I might try is running through a dedicated public IP address with no NAT etc. If the viewer uses a lot of rapid connections, it might help.

 

Thanks!

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Vulpinus wrote:

In the prefences, I've upped the maximum network speed to the max

I think you must mean Maximum Bandwidth, in which case, you've probably got it set way too high.  The recommended maximum is 1500, no matter how fast your connection is... I'd start at 500 and slowly work my way up.  Also, a lot depends on whether or not your router can handle HTTP texture rendering and Open GL Vertex Buffer Objects.  You should try disabling both under Preferences(Ctrl+P)/Graphics/Hardware Settings and see if that helps.

...Dres

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A P.S. before I log out for the night (GMT here).

Frank's is a great place, one of the busiest in Second Life. If you access the internet wirelessly ever, please try not to when logged into Second Life.  You need as stable a connection as you can get. A lot of bits and bytes have to travel a fair few miles. Be careful of what you wear too - scripts in resizeable items - footwear, hair for example - and HUDs - can cause issues when teleporting.

Stick with it though - the first two weeks in Second Life are always the most challenging. 

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SL wants an error free connection more than it wants a fast one. Nalates Urriah has a blog page encompassing a lot of things that have been shown to help people over the ages...

http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/26/troubleshoot-your-sl-connection/

This may not help your particular problem, but it is instructive.

Good luck, Vulpinus.

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@Marigold, Yes, I think I'm going to like Frank's. It's the sort of place I've looked for in RL for years, and never found. I've joined the Elite Jazz Club - nice place indeed! Must brush up on my dancing...


@Madelain, thanks for the link, I'll take a look, along with checking the stats on my router which I was just about to do.

I've just done the first few checks from that link and everything looks as it should. That's in The Free Dove where I go to change clothes, and where I get most of the frustration. Ping around 200ms or less, 0% packet loss, Time Dialtion around 0.995  and SFPS of 44 and over.

I'll keep digging.

 

Thanks everyone for the speedy help and replies to my (probably a little rude-sounding when I read it back) post.

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what I learned in my 8 years here in sl is that, I live in Sweden and its around 18 to 30 jumps before I reach secondlife and its often the last node in Europe and the first in US that slowing me down. and then next node that stops are sometimes in san Francisco and sometimes in LA. trace youre rout to sl and I guess you will find out whats wrong

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Marigold Devin wrote:

Be careful of what you wear too - scripts in resizeable items - footwear, hair for example - and HUDs - can cause issues when teleporting.

Stick with it though - the first two weeks in Second Life are always the most challenging. 

A lot of freebies are older products. Sometimes from eras when some very bad scripting habits were popular in SL. New users tend to stick for freebies for their early period in SL.

- Something of a perfect storm for initial bad impressions.

 

If you have anything like hair, cloths, or attachments that resize when clicked on, that can if using scripts popular in 2009-2010 be so bad a single person wearing just hair can bring down a whole sim full of people all on her own...

- Some of those items would try to load up well over 30mbs of scripts. Sometimes exponentially way over that.

(There was an IP theft scare in 2009 that motivated a LOT of merchants to lock perms down on items, and then use scripts to let people customize - but the resulting scripts were absurdly bad in terms of bloat for the first 2 years.)

 

The weird place to look, that will tell you how much scripts you are using... is "about Land". On the first tab of that is a button down by the bottom for script info. A tab in the window that button creates shows your avatar. If the result is over 3mbs - it can be impacting your performance in SL, and the list will tell you exactly which items are offending.

Newer products in SL even when seemingly heavily scripted tend to be a lot lower in this - scripters have improved their tricks a LOT in the last 2 years. 2011 was a mixed bag, but by 2012 this was becomming a selling point so merchants started dumping the bad scripts.

...

Except some people never update their freebies...

Then again that's no reason to not use free stuff, just always check its scripts after putting it on and be open to just tossing it for a different freebie if it seems excessive.

(When this script issue happens in something you've paid for, its a LOT more annoying... and has changed my brand loyalties in the past).

 

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Having a good internet connection is not the same thing as having a good connection to Second Life. A download uses a very limited number of connections. The SL Viewer uses a large nuber of connections. Recent changes to the SL system have been reducing the connections needed.

In some situations the number of connections can bring older routers down. Older B & G wireless protocols can have problems. Too many things can interfer with a wireless signal. The new 'N' protocols are much stronger and resist initerferance.

If you want to look at your connection to SL read this: http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/26/troubleshoot-your-sl-connection/

It provides the information you need to tell if the problem is you, your ISP, the SL Network, or the region server.

Also, there are a couple of settings people think and often hear will make SL perform faster if the values are larger. The result in most cases is worse performance. The article mentions the limits.

--------------

Recently the servers have been changed to use both the new and old protocols. Only viewers that have the recent HTTP upgrades can take advantage of the new stuff. I suspect during the change over period we will see less than optimal performance. That seems to be how this duel process thing goes.

The 3/11 update seems to have helped my performance quit a bit. I seemed to have gained about 10 to 20 FPS. Instead of running at 20 to 35 I often am running at 35 to 60.

Any lpace that has made poor use of textures can still drag my viewer down to 2 to 5 FPS. I can use Ctrl-Shift-3 (Texture Console) to see if that is the cause. Once you have read the article you'll know what to check in Viewer stats (Ctrl-Shift-1) to know if the server is OK or not.

Don't expect to Skyrim performance. Skyrim was designed by professionals and makes smart use of textures and LOD to optimise render speed. SL was made mostly by novices. Some use 1024x1024 textures on doorknobs... which will kill FPS.

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Do a speedtest to the three locations on THIS page and follow the instructions on how to set bandwidth.

What specific Nvidia card do you have?

"When trying to view profiles, my own and other people's, I get either an SSL or a "Your browser isn't accepting cookies' error more often than not. I've logged in using explorer so have the certificate. If I try repeatedly, I'll eventually get the page to open but it can take several tries. Occasionally it will work first time to catch me out."

Why aren't you using a viewer?

As a "network and server geek" you should know that 20Mbps is not a "serious internet connection." Xfinity offers 25 as basic and 50 as the first upgrade. I regularly get 56-70 to the Dallas server.

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