Coney Island build

[Storm Clarence]

I saw some snapshots on the feeds of the Coney Island build... absolutely fantastic; I would recommend a visit. The Cyclone RollerCoaster and the Wonder Wheel are near perfect replicas of what these great/historic rides represent in RL. And yes, they are functioning rides in SL.

I tp'd for a look the other day.

Here's my question. My little niece is visiting from the west coast. She is 13 1/2 now and what a lovely, mature girl. She asked her uncle, me, to take her to Coney Island this coming weekend. It is unfortunate that I will not be able to accomodate her request as I have several prior engagements that I need to satisfy. I feel poorly about rejecting her, but then I had an idea. Should I bring her in-world to the Coney Island build? Although it is on a 'mature' sim, I noticed several topless men and very not-so-clad women that barely covered their Lola's. I did not mind at all, but is this the right message I want for my niece?
Just suppose someone griefs the sim with flying genitalia or something like that -- we have all witnessed this rude behavior in SL.

Although, as I stated above she is a very mature girl; she is a young girl nonetheless. Does a child belong anywhere near SL?

[Tinkatoi]

Only in a G rated sim and with close supervision if at all.

Make a picnic and go to the park in rl, spend some quality time with her, she will appreciate that way more than balming you 3 years later for sucking her into a TOS violation.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Storm Clarence wrote:

I saw some snapshots on the feeds of the Coney Island build... absolutely fantastic; I would recommend a visit. The Cyclone RollerCoaster and the Wonder Wheel are near perfect replicas of what these great/historic rides represent in RL. And yes, they are functioning rides in SL.

 

I tp'd for a look the other day.

 

Here's my question. My little niece is visiting from the west coast. She is 13 1/2 now and what a lovely, mature girl. She asked her uncle, me, to take her to Coney Island this coming weekend. It is unfortunate that I will not be able to accomodate her request as I have several prior engagements that I need to satisfy. I feel poorly about rejecting her, but then I had an idea. Should I bring her in-world to the Coney Island build? Although it is on a 'mature' sim, I noticed several topless men and very not-so-clad women that barely covered their Lola's. I did not mind at all, but is this the right message I want for my niece?

Just suppose someone griefs the sim with flying genitalia or something like that -- we have all witnessed this rude behavior in SL.

 

Although, as I stated above she is a very mature girl; she is a young girl nonetheless. Does a child belong anywhere near SL?

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When I was in high school I knew a 14-year-old girl who told me of the bet she had with her friend about who would be the first of them to have sex with a teacher. Bear in mind this was 30 years ago in small-town "Reagan America." I'm not saying your niece does anything of the kind -- but -- she may well know someone who does. In any event she's not going to see anything shocking.

Ahh, but that's not how people see things on the forums, of course. Unfortunately I can't link to the video I always think of when I hear forumites talking about the dangers of teenagers on SL -- Henry J. Waternoose roaring:

 

There's nothing more TOXIC than a HUMAN CHILD!!!

 

[Ceka Cianci]

well TOS wise she is too young for the open General grid and only allowed in the closed off educational sims..

if you were asking if she was officially too young for SL.

[Maryanne Solo]

wut?

 

[Pie Serendipity]

I think it inappropriate - and potentially in breach of LL's ToS - for a minor to be able to see the screen when their parent (I nearly said 'a responsible adult' but that would clearly not be the case) is participating in any sort of activity in SL, whatever the rating of the environment. Just as LL has a legal duty of care in respect of safeguarding children, so do adults.

That your niece is "mature" is irrelevant. There are moral arguments that less mature individuals (including those with the intellectual level of a child in the body of an adult) should not be permitted to interact with others who might take advantage of them. Maturity is not a concept relevant to LL's adherence to the law in this circumstance.

I realise, from public admissions in the SL feeds by irresponsible adults, that they allow their own children to view events in SL, some even encouraging them to "attend" concerts in which they are participating, which is exhibitionism of the highest order, on a par with Cher putting her PRE-TEEN son in a video, replete with phallic symbolism, in which she wore the skimpiest of sluttish costumes and strutted in an unmistakably sexual fashion, baring her butt randomly in front of baying crowds of animalistically animated sailors.

 

 

Would you put YOUR child in such a situation? Think again, Storm!

 

[Storm Clarence]

Hmm, Pie, it does not 'feel' right to me, but I am not a parent so I just don't know ergo my question. The more I think about the SL environment the less inclined I am.

I was even thinking of asking my friend Venus to accompany us/her, but then I am pushing the responsibility on her and that would not be fair. My SL friends are mature; have mature conversations, and dress for a mature audience, and I don't expect anything less of them. I think it would be unfair to ask anyone to 'babysit' my young niece.

If something went awry who would I blame; who could I blame? Venus? Other adult participants (because SL is an adult environment) who want to have some fun with their friends? Only myself would be to blame... and my sister in-law would probably put a contract out on me. I would not want to send my niece back home as a STEM.

Cher's 'son' started life as her 'daughter', did he not? I wonder how much responsibility Cher assumes for her/his transition.

 

 

[Kylie Jaxxon]

I wouldn't do it.  Just because she might be a mature 13 year old and had already seen such things, doesn't mean you should expose her to more.

As a responsible parent, I took the time to monitor all that my kids watched, listened to, spent time at friends house, etc...It would really piss me off, if someone took it upon themselves to allow my kid exposure to such things.  So, beware of your sister-in-law

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Maryanne Solo wrote:

wut?

 

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wut to wut?

[Phil Deakins]

I say no, don't do it.

1. It isn't Coney island, so she won't get any Coney Island type of pleasure from it.

2. What she would get, if your fears are realised, is an impression of her uncle that you probably don't want her to have.

3. The ToS would prevent her from logging in and going there, but nothing can prevent a child from watching an adult's screen. Nevertheless, the fact that she would not be allowed to go there as avatar strongly suggests that it's best she does not watch.

4. The very fact that you posted the question is a strong indication to you that it's best left alone.

[Marigold Devin]

Absolutely bloody not!!!!!

At best, she'll think everyone in Second Life is nutty. At worst she'll want to have her very own Second Life account, which she's just not old enough or mature enough - in spite of how grown up she may appear to be - for several years yet.

I am still scarred because my mother allowed me to watch things on TV when she thought I was grown up enough to deal with it - and I am only talking about The Wicker Man!!

Let/help your 'little niece' remain a child in some way for as long as possible. Showing her your weird Second Life might just weird her out for life!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Venus Petrov]

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Storm Clarence wrote:

Hmm, Pie, it does not 'feel' right to me, but I am not a parent so I just don't know ergo my question. The more I think about the SL environment the less inclined I am.

I was even

thinking of asking my friend Venus to accompany us/her,

but then I am pushing the responsibility on her and that would not be fair. My SL friends are mature; have mature conversations, and dress for a mature audience, and I don't expect anything less of them. I think it would be unfair to ask anyone to 'babysit' my young niece.

If something went awry who would I blame;

who could I blame? Venus

? Other adult participants (because SL is an adult environment) who want to have some fun with their friends? Only myself would be to blame... and my sister in-law would probably put a contract out on me. I would not want to send my niece back home as a STEM.

Cher's 'son' started life as her 'daughter', did he not? I wonder how much responsibility Cher assumes for her/his transition.

 

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Gawd, Storm, what the heck are you thinking?!?  Underage children (I'm speaking of the RL variety, not adults who pose as children inworld), should NEVER be exposed to SL.  Not inworld or even sitting next to someone (a 'responsible' *coughs* adult) and watching the screen.   One major reason:  YOU cannot control what others inworld may say or do while the child is watching.  After all, it is their world; their imagination.  Even griefers (yes, we have all experienced them..even the flying genitalia) cannot be predicted and do YOU want to be in a situation where you have to explain to the child's parents why she witnessed such an event?  Surely, you cannot blame ME because your sis-in-law has no clue who I am nor should it matter since you are the relevant 'adult in charge'.

I thought you knew me better!! 

By the way, I think the 'son' referenced re: the Cher video is her younger child ..a son (not Chas, the daughter who became a man).  Get your cultural references right! 

[Storm Clarence]

Apologies Venus... what was I thinking!?

 

PS Chas, Cher's daughter may have become a MALE, but she, now he, will NEVER be a MAN.

[Ceka Cianci]

Wow they totally revamped the TOS with other products now..

it used to be that 13 to 15 were only allowed in certain protected sims..

now they talk about blocksworld in that section..

and now have all their products listed..

http://lindenlab.com/products

 

when did this happen?

[Venus Petrov]

FYI, Cher's son is Elijah Blue (with Greg Allman).  And, yes, you are correct...Chas is male, not necessarily a man. |:

P.S. I am aware that incidents such as you describe have probably happened and will happen again.  SL has both responsible adults and not-so-responsible adults in our resident population.

[Pie Serendipity]

It could be worse, Storm.

You might inadvertently be tpd from SL's Coney Island into a gypsy "concert".

 

 

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

First off you create a difficulty in answering your question(s) by presenting a specific situation (Coney Island) but then asking a generalized question, "Does a child belong anywhere near SL?"

As to Coney Island in SL that is a moot point when applied to your final question.  Would you take your Niece to the Coney Island in RL?  I've been there and have seen how people dress and some people would describe some of the things as not a "pretty picture."

When I was around 14 years old I got flashed by a man on the Boardwalk at Atlantic City in RL.  I was there on vacation with my family and my parents had allowed me to go down to the Boardwalk by myself in the evening.  Should my parents have not allowed me to go down to the Boardwalk by myself?  Yes it upset me and I told my parents who reported it to the authorities.  The perp was to my knowledge ever caught. 

It is not necessarily the kind of thing a parent would have to want to deal with but it became part of "growing up" for me.  While maybe it is sad that we have to, but learning that there are unpleasant things in this world is a part of life.

As to the general question, "Does a child belong anywhere near SL" I do have some friends in SL who occasionally let their children "play" in SL.  They closely monitor the activity.  They allow the children to play with their meeroos and other SL animals they own.  It is always supervised.  I see no problem with this outside of the potential TOS violation, but that would be a separate discussion.

Having raised children and also observing other children and simply based on my life's experiences and the things that I see going on in the world today I have an opinion.  If by the time your children are sixteen years old they are not ready to begin to handle some 'adult topics' then you have done a poor job as a parent.  Occasionally some of those topics may turn out to be unpleasant things but that is for better or worse the way life is in our day and time. 

As far as taking your Niece to SL Coney Island, I see no problem with it as long as you are prepared for the fact that something could happen and that you may need to explain to your Niece a little about the facts of life.  As much as we would like to, we can't shelter our kids forever.  Otherwise they won't have the tools for dealing with things later on in life that they might encounter.

On the other side of this, the fact that some people may behave in what other people may define as unseemly, outside of complying with the TOS, I am not going to tailor my activities because Children may be present in SL.  Those children are the responsibility of their parents.  They are not my responsibility. Anything other than this would be an endorsement of censoring Adult activity any where at any time in RL just because a Child may stumble upon it.  And while I do care about Children, I will not accept this kind of censorship.

 

 

 

[FairuzaB]

How long is she visiting for? You don't have time to take her at all? No other family members or a close trusted friend can take her? Is it very far from where you live?

[Venus Petrov]

You raise some good points, Perrie.  I am not a parent so perhaps I err on the side of caution when dealing with the children of others.  Still, I would not take a child somewhere without the parent's informed consent (as in 'I've never heard of Second Life, what is it?').  I know from watching nieces and nephews grow up that they are often far more aware of some things than we give them credit for.

That being said, it still remains the domain of the responsible adult to make decisions in the best interest of the child.  If one takes the child to a place where adults are present, one ought to understand that adults will say and do things that one might find distressing if said or done in the presence of the child.   If one doesn't want to expose a kid to these things, then don't!

[Maryanne Solo]

Sorry Ceka, it was aimed at the unstable nature of the sock puppet thread topic, not you.

[Marigold Devin]

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Venus Petrov wrote:

You raise some good points, Perrie.  I am not a parent so perhaps I err on the side of caution when dealing with the children of others.  Still, I would not take a child somewhere without the parent's informed consent (as in 'I've never heard of Second Life, what is it?').  I know from watching nieces and nephews grow up that they are often far more aware of some things than we give them credit for.

That being said, it still remains the domain of the responsible adult to make decisions in the best interest of the child.  If one takes the child to a place where adults are present, one ought to understand that adults will say and do things that one might find distressing if said or done in the presence of the child.   If one doesn't want to expose a kid to these things, then don't!

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I'm not a parent either, and do sometimes feel I don't have a right to even voice an opinion on topics such as this, but then the maternal instincts kick in - and being women, we still get 'em.

Certainly where there could be something unpredictable and potentially shocking, and quite probably outside of what would be viewed in a late night TV show that a minor might somehow catch sight of, I see no good reason in putting any child, especially the offspring of a relative or friend who has entrusted him/her into my care for the afternoon/day/week in a situation where said relative or friend might batter me about the head at a later date.

And I would not put myself into the position wittingly of being the person to  potentially corrupt a minor even in the slightest way. Too many damaged goods roam this planet as it is.

[Perrie Juran]

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Venus Petrov wrote:

You raise some good points, Perrie.  I am not a parent so perhaps I err on the side of caution when dealing with the children of others.  Still, I would not take a child somewhere without the parent's informed consent (as in 'I've never heard of Second Life, what is it?').  I know from watching nieces and nephews grow up that they are often far more aware of some things than we give them credit for.

That being said, it still remains the domain of the responsible adult to make decisions in the best interest of the child.  If one takes the child to a place where adults are present, one ought to understand that adults will say and do things that one might find distressing if said or done in the presence of the child.   If one doesn't want to expose a kid to these things, then don't!

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I neglected to mention that.  Any time when dealing with someone else's child get clearance first. 

Thank you.

[Storm Clarence]

Perrie, it's a little more than getting clearance (I almost wrote Clarence, go figure.) To get clearance you have to explain what SL is. Shall I point my sister in-law to the forum? Perhaps she will not read past the "LESBIAN FEM FOR STUD" on the homepage before she rips me a new one. It is SL, I would not subject my child or any child to this environment.

 

ETA Although I agree with the crux of what you wrote.

[Perrie Juran]

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Storm Clarence wrote:

Perrie, it's a little more than getting clearance (I almost wrote Clarence, go figure.) To get clearance you have to explain what SL is. Shall I point my sister in-law to the forum? Perhaps she will not read past the "LESBIAN FEM FOR STUD" on the homepage before she rips me a new one. It is SL, I would not subject my child or any child to this environment.

 

ETA Although I agree with the crux of what you wrote.

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That all depends on your relationship with your Sister In Law.

When I sent my kids to stay with my Sister she told me that she was going to take them into Manhattan.

I knew there were wh0res on Seventh Avenue.

I trusted my Sister that she would not take them there.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Don't do it. The poor girl might be traumatized by adults being adults.