PayPal/Lindex information. Must read for former third party exchange users or newbies.

[Voltaure]

After Linden Lab's decision to close down TPE market there have been a number of people who either can't buy or withdraw their Linden Dolars from Second Life. As a result there are untruthul myths floating around in these forums perpetuated, by a few obviously biased forum members which I'm not gonna name here. The post will be long but if you are going to use PayPal with Second Life it's well worth a read.

Myth 1. PayPal is available in 193 countries. This is untrue. It's just a marketing line that PayPal uses that's being copy/pasted here on the forums without second thought. Availability, risks of using and fees of PayPal vary wildly from country to country. For example: PayPal lists itself as available in USA and Germany. In reality, PayPal is very popular in USA and most if not all credit cards issued by US banks will work and fees are fairly low. In Germany however, most debit/credit cards issued by German banks DO NOT WORK WITH PAYPAL and fees can reach up to as high as 10% per transaction. Before getting a card for use with PayPal make sure it works and try to find out about the fees. Also PayPal is notorious for listing incorrect information about their fee structure to their new users, and a lot of European users are frequently unpleasantly surprised when they find out only after opening a Paypal acount and putting money in to PayPal system that the fees are actually much higher than advertised. Before opening a PayPal try to find out about the fees in your country as much as possible.

Myth 2. Linden Lab closed down TPE's because of changes in laws. This is merely a speculation that some forum members present as fact, one of many as a matter of fact, as Linden Lab hasn't announced that recent changes in their TOS has anything to do with the current laws (and they used to do this in the past). Recent FinCen guidance is a recommendation not a law, laws hasn't changed and the only sure thing right now is that Linden Lab, for reasons they haven't disclosed, has decided to shut down Third Party Exchange market and force all transactions throught the Lindex.

Myth 3. You can withdraw from Second Life using bank wires. Bank wires from Second Life have a MINIMUM LIMIT of 10 thousand dollars per transaction (you can not withdraw a lesser amount), and has probably haven't been used in years by anyone on this forum, if ever at all. Actually, I doubt it even works anymore as not even Linden Lab lists it as an available option on their page anymore.

Myth 4. Most important. Second Life can be attached to PayPal without a credit card. While, de facto, it is true, please bear in mind that THE ONLY Linden Lab approved way of withdrawing Linden dollars or buying Linden dollars through Lindex through PayPal is by adding a VERIFIED Paypal account, which means it has to have your credit card attached to the PayPal account. Forum members have been posting "tutorials" here about other ways, but keep in mind they are merely workarounds and are NOT APPROVED by PayPal. Loopholes like that existed in PayPal for years, some of them, while they do work, are against the PayPal's TOS and CAN GET YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT FROZEN AND/OR SUSPENDED WITH THE FUNDS IN IT. PayPal has been known for suspending users, after finding out that they were using PayPal by unapproved methods, even when those methods weren't explicitily listed in their TOS. As a result thousands of honest, unaware people have lost their money to PayPal over the years. The multitude of PayPal hate sites are a testiment to that. So, just because a method works doesn't mean it won't get you banned from PayPal, just a warning.

Moreover, please be aware that by associating your PayPal account with Second Life you are associating your credit card and the bank account attached to it as well. Thus, if your Second Life account gets compromised, your credit card, bank account and the funds in it might be as well. Credit card fraud is a common problem in Paypal, as most Internet scammers reside on Ebay. While Paypal, in some cases can recover funds stolen from you, it ussually takes months and you will not always get the full amount back. Because of this, the standart practice in Europe is for banks to issue separate cards with separate bank accounts for use with Paypal or Skrill and to advice for users not to keep more funds on those accounts thet they have to. I advice you do the same.

P.S. There will be some old time forum members who will tell you otherwise, but keep in mind: most of them are creators and are making a living selling items in Second Life, and thus have a vested interest in attracting/keeping as much Second Life users as possible, without introducing them to the negative side.

[Summer Tison]

You forgot to mention that Residents have other options to BUY their L$ 

While it's true that you can no longer cash out through 3rd parties, for a lot of users like myself who only buy L$, there are other ways...http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Linden_Dollar_%28L$%29_Authorized_Reseller_Program

[Innula Zenovka]

Point of information.   

This what PayPal users in the UK are told about Verification (full size image here).   You will see that there is no reference anywhere to needing a credit or debit card, and the example they give does not use one.

In the UK, at least, while you are encouraged to add a Debit or Credit card as a "secondary payment source," that's nothing to do with verification, and I can't imagine LL either know or care if you have done or not.

 

[Kenbro Utu]

I think you need to look up the word "myth."  All your examples did was show the limitations of the statements, but did not disprove any of them. 

[Voltaure]

---

In the UK, at least, while you are

encouraged

to add a Debit or Credit card as a "secondary payment source," that's nothing to do with verification, and I can't imagine LL either know or care if you have done or not.

 

---

 

In UK, Canada and USA you can verify PayPal with bank account I think. Although linking your paypal with bank account poses the same risks. In the rest of the world however PayPal still requires a card to verify. An most cards ussually don't work. This is part of why I am frustrated by that PayPal is available in 193 countries nonsesnse, while in reality it's only suited towards USA, UK and Canada. In the rest of the world, it ussually sucks as a payment provider for multitude of reasons.

And LL might not care, but PayPal can be verified by various cards, some of them can get your account blocked later on, even if they aren't listed in their TOS as not allowed, so I would be careful with that.

[Madeliefste Oh]

---

Voltaure wrote:

 Forum members have been posting "tutorials" here about other ways, but keep in mind they are merely workarounds and are NOT APPROVED by PayPal. Loopholes like that existed in PayPal for years, some of them, while they do work, are against the PayPal's TOS and CAN GET YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT FROZEN AND/OR SUSPENDED WITH THE FUNDS IN IT.

---

Which methods posted in these forums are against Paypal's TOS?

 

 

---

PayPal has been known for suspending users, after finding out that they were using PayPal by unapproved methods, even when those methods weren't explicitily listed in their TOS. As a result thousands of honest, unaware people have lost their money to PayPal over the years.

 

 

---

Which methods do you refer to here?

 

 

 

---

P.S. There will be some old time forum members who will tell you otherwise, but keep in mind: most of them are creators and are making a living selling items in Second Life, and thus have a vested interest in attracting/keeping as much Second Life users as possible, without introducing them to the negative side.

---

Myth 5: It is always better to listen to someone with a one day old account then to old time forum members.

 

 

[Voltaure]

---

Kenbro Utu wrote:

I think you need to look up the word "myth."  All your examples did was show the limitations of the statements, but did not disprove any of them. 

---

 

Well, this why I used word clarify, instead of disprove. Anyway, it's semantics.. The point is that some people here on the forums are basically lying to people by purposefully not telling all information that they should know.

For example: while theoretically bank wires can be used to withdraw (it seems), is there's a single person on these forums that have actually done that? Does it even work still?

[Voltaure]

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

---

Which methods posted in these forums are against Paypal's TOS?

---

 

 

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

---

Myth 5: It is always better to listen to someone with a one day old account then to old time forum members

.

 

 

---

 

I don't know, nor does it matter. Point is people have been posting such workarounds for years, and I know for a fact that people got their accounts suspended without explanation, while not doing anything against the TOS. PayPal sometimes themselves can't get their s*** straight. And that company is very well known for that. So people should be warned, before posting tutorials that can get them banned from PayPal FOR LIFE.

 

Like I said, most old timers here are probably creators, and creators should specifically NOT BE TRUSTED on these matters. Actually, what I wanted here is to post a different oppinion so people would think twice and hopefully check that info for themselves. And as far as I've read some of these old time members know almost nothing about PayPal and their policies, yet they post tutorials because they've discovered a method that happens to work for them right now. Now, that I think of.. weren't you the one that didn't even know until a week ago, that PayPal uses different fees for different countries?

[Jewel Laurasia]

It needs to be said, that when it comes to matters of advice when dealing with financial matters, and sticky businesses like Paypal, you really need to check into it all yourself. Don't take someone's word as if they represent LL or Paypal or any other business. You need to find this info out for yourself. Noone here in these forums is a paid and trained representative of ANY business. What they say may be true, but you can't know that.

 

Do your own homework on this people.

[Dillon Levenque]

I read this OP earlier; this is my first time back since. I'd like to sum up what I've seen so far. I enjoy looking at news and other information stories and discussions and examining the motivation or reasoning behind them.

In your intro, you announced, "there are untruthul myths floating around in these forums perpetuated, by a few obviously biased forum members which I'm not gonna name here.". How generous of you not to name and shame, but at the same time how revealing that you would begin by implying malice as opposed to say, misunderstanding.

You describe Myth 1 as "PaypPal is available in 193 countries.". You proceed to (presumably) attempt to debunk this myth by mentioning two and only two countries, in both of which by your own statements PayPal is in fact available. I did read the rest of that paragraph, but I learned I needn't have bothered. It did nothing to debunk what you called 'Myth 1'.

Myth 2, without getting into whether you define regulations as laws: LL did in fact make quite clear in their blog post on the subject that the FinCEN registration requirement was the driving force behind the TPE decision (although as you point out, that is not stated in the TOS). The TPE's that did comment publicly on the situation in the days immediately following the action also made clear that FinCEN registration was the issue.

On Myth 3, I have no data.

You've already been asked for examples of the statements you CAPPED in Myth 4, which you have not answered.

You conclude by once again stating that forum members who are themselves creators are hiding the truth so as not to lose customers. There are a couple things wrong with that. The first and most glaring is that is an accusation of malfeasance made without a shred of evidence and (essentially) anonymously since you feel obliged to post behind an alt. The second is that you apparently overlook the fact the firestorm about this on the Forum was driven almost entirely BY creators. Who else would need to cash out Lindens?

I'll stay tuned.

 

ETA some missed words.

[Madeliefste Oh]

---

Voltaure wrote:

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

---

Which methods posted in these forums are against Paypal's TOS?

---

I don't know, nor does it matter. Point is people have been posting such workarounds for years, and I know for a fact that people got their accounts suspended without explanation, while not doing anything against the TOS. PayPal sometimes themselves can't get their s*** straight. And that company is very well known for that. So people should be warned, before posting tutorials that can get them banned from PayPal FOR LIFE.

 

---

Ofcourse it matters. You want to protect others for workarounds that people posted here that are against Paypal TOS. Because you want to protect them from getting banned on Paypal. Then you better be complete in your information, so others know which 'workaround' is against Paypals TOS.

 

---

Like I said, most old timers here are probably creators, and creators should specifically NOT BE TRUSTED on these matters. Actually, what I wanted here is to post a different oppinion so people would think twice and hopefully check that info for themselves. And as far as I've read some of these old time members know almost nothing about PayPal and their policies, yet they post tutorials because they've discovered a method that happens to work for them right now. Now, that I think of.. weren't you the one that didn't even know until a week ago, that PayPal uses different fees for different countries?

---

It is always best that people check for themselves, specially when money is involved and/or when creating an account somewhere is involved.

I checked Paypal for my own needs, years ago. Since I only happen to live in just one country I only checked the terms and conditions for my own country. So indeed I did not know that PayPal uses different fees in different countries.

 

 

 

[Tari Landar]

I am quite certain what you were going for here, was an attempt at being helpful for other users. What you did accomplish, and I'm not certain was a goal when you began posting, is showing just how arrogant and ignorant you are also on the subject.

Your crass remarks about creators and long time forumites are not going to help people take anything you have to say., seriously. In fact if it came down to something you say, and something a person I seriously dislike on the forums says-and neither can br proven or disproven-I'd likely opt for their method. Why? Because despite what you think, even just being around the forums for a good long while can help us gain insight we'd otherwise not have. Aside from that...those people, creators or not, are only posting what they are posting to help other people.

Now what they have to say might not be helpful for you, or someone else, but it has been helpful to at least some people. That alone, imo, makes it noteworthy, or should. I ahve also seen plenty of them sharing the negatives and the downsides to things too. It's not all happy sunshine and rainbows.

There is no one size fits all answer for this, or really any of the problems we might encounter. There are numerous ways to deal with things, numerous ways to fix problems, numerous workarounds we have to go with temporarily. The reason there is such a large number, and such vastly different answers, is because SL has a worldwide audience. What works for one, won't work for all. Even people in the same country can easily have the same problem, for which there can be many fixes-not all of them working for either. It's hit or miss. We've seen a lot of those posts actually. People in one country having problems that others, also in the same country, are not.

It's as important to take what people say with a grain of salt as it is to get up and do our own leg work. We have to figure out how best to help ourselves. Often times that means reading the experiences and advice offered by others and going for a trial and error sort of method.

None of what you posted disproves anything. In fact, all it does is prove what's been said since day one. Not all fixes will work for all people. What you posted are not "myths". That would mean they couldn't be proven or disproven, which doesn't apply to any of them. Some of the things you posted HAVE been proven to work, or be true in the cases of just statements made. You not liking them, or them not being effective for all, does not make them myths. It also doesn't make the people who shared them any less helpful than you're being. But maybe you haven't read all of the threads I have, so that might play a part in why we see things so differently.

You did the very same thing others did, though. You shared what knowledge you have. But in the end, whether it comes from you, me, a creator that's been here since 2004, or even LL themselves..people will still have to do their own leg work to see what's going to work best for them and their situation. Your post is no more worth a read than any other post and to be honest I think it would do us all well to remember that.

You seem to have an axe to grind against creators, as you've mentioned them several times. I do know that some of the people that have posted ways to assist others(ways that ARE working, have worked, and aren't breaking any TOS anywhere) are NOT creators. Yes they may have been part of the forums for ages, but that doesn't mean they are creators. Although it is true you'll likely find more creators and merchants on the forums than otherwise.There are still a ton of people that read them, most of which are not creators. Creators tend to post more, it seems, because yes creators DO have a vested interest in sl, sometimes more than non-creators. Although all residents do to some degree. We wouldn't be merchants if we sat on our duffs and didn't give two rat's toes what anyone else does, or whether or not they can remain in sl. I'd care even if I wasn't a merchant to be honest. I'm quite fond of sl, and I know how it would feel if my sl were seemingly being ripped out from under me(which is how some feel at this new change). Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately who knows, I can't help people. I don't have any better solutions than we've seen posted. I can't really add a whole lot of value to those topics. When/if I can, I do. But to be honest I ahve very little experience with PP and SL outside of the US. In fact, my experience with it, is non-existant. I live in the US-that's where my experience sits. I can share what I have read though, and that's what I do.

I'm still grateful to see as many people trying to help, successful or not. It at least shows people care if others are able to stick around. Personally I don't care if they are motivated by keeping customers and potential ones around. I'm glad they're motivated at all. It's better than telling people "you're SOL, and I don't care". So, I say, keep helping, everyone, as best as you can. Your advice may not be helpful to some, but it's probably helpful to others and I'm sure they appreciate it.

 

[Malanya]

I won't bother quoting that long list which part is inaccurate. Verification by having a bank account overrides a credit card. Think about what you have to do to open a bank account as opposed to obtaining a credit card. I realize that other countries (I am in the US) has different policies on obtaining a credit card but a bank verification is more relevant. I am a PayPal merchant for many years and a business member. I have, once again never had any issues with people using PayPal from all over the world using PayPal to purchase. Yes, there are countries that PayPal does NO financial business with but it's not because of PayPal being a problem it's a security issue with that country and as a merchant I am advised by PayPal to take certain steps to protect me from fraud with certain countries. It depends on the volume of sales with PayPal as well as being a Visa/MC merchant on your percentage rate. If It was such a devious non secure payment option then I wonder how it has managed to stay around so long, be trusted by so many and grow as big as it has. Do you realize how long PayPal has been a financial service? PayPal has pretty strict use agreement so maybe you should be clear on what you are reading. They protect many from fraud. If there is a lot of activity on  your PayPal account that is not normal to your use they will suspend and investigate, it's for your benefit.

Probably not. LL is a US based company and unless you are clear on the laws of the US and even the laws of the state of California (why yes, states have different laws and liabilities that is specific to them) I wouldn't post why LL had to change the use of TPE because there are really laws that they have to abide by and some people just can't grasp that.

Aren't we over all this PayPal stuff yet? Or maybe another 4 threads will make a difference....

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You yourself are perpetuating false myths:

---

Voltaure wrote:

After Linden Lab's decision to close down TPE market there have been a number of people who either can't buy or withdraw their Linden Dolars from Second Life. As a result there are untruthul myths floating around in these forums perpetuated, by a few obviously biased forum members which I'm not gonna name here. The post will be long but if you are going to use PayPal with Second Life it's well worth a read.

Myth 1. PayPal is available in 193 countries.

This is untrue. It's just a marketing line that PayPal uses that's being copy/pasted here on the forums without second thought. Availability, risks of using and fees of PayPal vary wildly from country to country. For example: PayPal lists itself as available in USA and Germany. In reality, PayPal is very popular in USA and most if not all credit cards issued by US banks will work and fees are fairly low. In Germany however, most debit/credit cards issued by German banks DO NOT WORK WITH PAYPAL and fees can reach up to as high as 10% per transaction. Before getting a card for use with PayPal make sure it works and try to find out about the fees. Also PayPal is notorious for listing incorrect information about their fee structure to their new users, and a lot of European users are frequently unpleasantly surprised when they find out only after opening a Paypal acount and putting money in to PayPal system that the fees are actually much higher than advertised. Before opening a PayPal try to find out about the fees in your country as much as possible.

It

not being available

and

your not choosing to use it

due to fees or ineligiblity to get a credit card are two seperate things.  PayPal is by no means free and charges fees to US users too, which can be substantial. There are a lot of people in the US that don't quailify for a credit card either.  This doesn't mean PayPal is not available in the US.

Myth 2. Linden Lab closed down TPE's because of changes in laws.

This is merely a speculation that some forum members present as fact, one of many as a matter of fact, as Linden Lab hasn't announced that recent changes in their TOS has anything to do with the current laws (and they used to do this in the past). Recent FinCen guidance is a recommendation not a law, laws hasn't changed and the only sure thing right now is that Linden Lab, for reasons they haven't disclosed, has decided to shut down Third Party Exchange market and force all transactions throught the Lindex.

This is not speculation.  Please read this article that quotes a RL virtual currency legal analyst who says it was due to a change in the law and explains why.  Follow the links for even more confirmation.

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2013/05/linden-dollar-terms-of-service-change-1.html

If LL does not follow the law they could be shut down.  It recently happened to another virtual currency exchange as cited in the link in

this

t

hread. 

FinCEN's (a division of the US Treasury Dept.)"guidance" is informing people how they intend on administer the laws and enforce them.  In the US Congress passes laws concerning financial matters and it is the Treasury departments duty administer and enforce it and to issue such guidance.  Try not following the 'guidance' and see if you don't end up in serious trouble too.

Myth 3. You can withdraw from Second Life using bank wires.

Bank wires from Second Life have a MINIMUM LIMIT of 10 thousand dollars per transaction (you can not withdraw a lesser amount), and has probably haven't been used in years by anyone on this forum, if ever at all. Actually, I doubt it even works anymore as not even Linden Lab lists it as an available option on their page anymore.

If PayPal is not available in your country you can request a bank wire.  No 10K minimum limit applies.  From the knowledge base:

Note:

Use a bank wire only under the following circumstances:

• PayPal will not permit payments to your country.
• You are expecting payment of $10,000 or more.

This does not say both conditions must be met.

Myth 4. Most important. Second Life can be attached to PayPal without a credit card.

 While, de facto, it is true, please bear in mind that THE ONLY Linden Lab approved way of withdrawing Linden dollars or buying Linden dollars through Lindex through PayPal is by adding a VERIFIED Paypal account, which means it has to have your credit card attached to the PayPal account. Forum members have been posting "tutorials" here about other ways, but keep in mind they are merely workarounds and are NOT APPROVED by PayPal. Loopholes like that existed in PayPal for years, some of them, while they do work, are against the PayPal's TOS and CAN GET YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT FROZEN AND/OR SUSPENDED WITH THE FUNDS IN IT. PayPal has been known for suspending users, after finding out that they were using PayPal by unapproved methods, even when those methods weren't explicitily listed in their TOS. As a result thousands of honest, unaware people have lost their money to PayPal over the years. The multitude of PayPal hate sites are a testiment to that. So, just because a method works doesn't mean it won't get you banned from PayPal, just a warning.

Moreover, please be aware that by associating your PayPal account with Second Life you are associating your credit card and the bank account attached to it as well. Thus, if your Second Life account gets compromised, your credit card, bank account and the funds in it might be as well. Credit card fraud is a common problem in Paypal, as most Internet scammers reside on Ebay. While Paypal, in some cases can recover funds stolen from you, it ussually takes months and you will not always get the full amount back. Because of this, the standart practice in Europe is for banks to issue separate cards with separate bank accounts for use with Paypal or Skrill and to advice for users not to keep more funds on those accounts thet they have to. I advice you do the same.

I don't have my PayPal verified account backed by a credit card and it is not against PayPal's rules.  I use it to both

buy and sell L's

  I have a debit card and the associated bank account hooked to it.  For security, both are strictly for use in dealing on the internet and contain no funds unless I tx them there.  I also immediately transfer any money I receive out of it.   It is only common sense.

P.S. There will be some old time forum members who will tell you otherwise, but keep in mind: most of them are creators and are making a living selling items in Second Life, and thus have a vested interest in attracting/keeping as much Second Life users as possible, without introducing them to the negative side.

---

Several but not all people who have stated the above facts are content creators, including myself, but by no means all are.  There is also nothing wrong with a merchant giving true information to debunk a lot of factually incorrect information that was floating about. For myself, due to the nature of my business I get paid in cash outside of SL thus saving the customer fees charged by LL.  I do however accept the equivalent amount in L's in the rare case that the customer doesn't mind paying the fees. So I have no ulterior motive nor do I see any merchant having avaricious intent.  Most of the old time forum members are on the Forums and Answers to help people voluntarily about a wide range of subjects that have not hing to do with their business  If their intent was solely to make money they wouldn't be here.  They would be busy creating content.  The fact that you make such a statement tells me that you don't participate in the forums yourself so how would you know?

I DO understand that there are people, some in the US, who do not qualify for a PayPal account or credit card and that is why LL has set up the reseller program now.  For selling L's , it isn't over yet.  LL made this statement in their blog announcing the reseller program:

"We know that users are also concerned about the length of the LindeX’s cashout process and the limited choice of currencies when selling L$. We’re currently investigating ways to improve that experience for users while still providing superior fraud protections, and hope to hasten the cashout process and offer new currency options in the future."

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Voltaure wrote:

---

In the UK, at least, while you are

encouraged

to add a Debit or Credit card as a "secondary payment source," that's nothing to do with verification, and I can't imagine LL either know or care if you have done or not.

 

---

 

In UK, Canada and USA you can verify PayPal with bank account I think. Although linking your paypal with bank account poses the same risks. In the rest of the world however PayPal still requires a card to verify. An most cards usually don't work. This is part of why I am frustrated by that PayPal is available in 193 countries nonsense, while in reality it's only suited towards USA, UK and Canada. In the rest of the world, it usually sucks as a payment provider for multitude of reasons.

And LL might not care, but PayPal can be verified by various cards, some of them can get your account blocked later on, even if they aren't listed in their TOS as not allowed, so I would be careful with that.

---

So are you saying you think that LL are likely to suspend the accounts of US, Canadian and UK account holders who have verified their PayPal accounts without using a credit card?     I know -- because I've talked to them -- that at least of my German friends verified their accounts in the same way as did I -- that is, by following the procedure outlined by PayPal in the screenshot I provided, which doesn't involve credit or debit cards.   Are you saying you think their SL or PayPal accounts are at risk?   

PayPal themselves say, 

---

The Verification process varies somewhat from country to country.

In the US, a Verified member has either added and confirmed a bank account with PayPal or received approval for a PayPal Plus credit card.

Not based in the US? Find your country's requirements

here.

---

What I would suggest to people wondering how they can verify their PayPal accounts is to ignore what you or I have to say about it and check with PayPal what the procedure is in their particular country.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Voltaure wrote:

For example: while theoretically bank wires can be used to withdraw (it seems), is there's a single person on these forums that have actually done that? Does it even work still?

---

Yes, me. Both before and after the US$10,000 minimum amount came into force.

[Tari Landar]

---

Voltaure wrote:

---

Kenbro Utu wrote:

I think you need to look up the word "myth."  All your examples did was show the limitations of the statements, but did not disprove any of them. 

---

 

Well, this why I used word clarify, instead of disprove. Anyway, it's semantics.. The point is that some people here on the forums are basically lying to people by purposefully not telling all information that they should know.

For example: while theoretically bank wires can be used to withdraw (it seems), is there's a single person on these forums that have actually done that? Does it even work still?

---

Yep, I know people have, and still do. Some charities opt for this route, but so do everyday residents like us. Not knowing someone who does this personally doesn't magically make it not so.

If people here are lying by not including any and all details, you are too. So, are you calling yourself a liar as well, or just everyone else?

You didn't clarify anything. All you did was expose the fact that you seriously have something against creators-why, I have no clue, lol.

 

[oberon Zuta]

 

Myth 4. Most important. Second Life can be attached to PayPal without a credit card. While, de facto, it is true, please bear in mind that THE ONLY Linden Lab approved way of withdrawing Linden dollars or buying Linden dollars through Lindex through PayPal is by adding a VERIFIED Paypal account, which means it has to have your credit card attached to the PayPal account. Forum members have been posting "tutorials" here about other ways, but keep in mind they are merely workarounds and are NOT APPROVED by PayPal. Loopholes like that existed in PayPal for years, some of them, while they do work, are against the PayPal's TOS and CAN GET YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT FROZEN AND/OR SUSPENDED WITH THE FUNDS IN IT. PayPal has been known for suspending users, after finding out that they were using PayPal by unapproved methods, even when those methods weren't explicitily listed in their TOS. As a result thousands of honest, unaware people have lost their money to PayPal over the years. The multitude of PayPal hate sites are a testiment to that. So, just because a method works doesn't mean it won't get you banned from PayPal, just a warning.

---

U can save PayPal as PIOF (Billing information without using Credit Card Information - the paypal Account have to be verified by Bancaccount for example and if u try to register as PIOF be charged with minimum 25 us$

Howto link PayPal as Billing Information WITHOUT Credit Card information EUROPE

[oberon Zuta]

---

Voltaure wrote:

---

In the UK, at least, while you are

encouraged

to add a Debit or Credit card as a "secondary payment source," that's nothing to do with verification, and I can't imagine LL either know or care if you have done or not.

 

---

 

In UK, Canada and USA you can verify PayPal with bank account I think. Although linking your paypal with bank account poses the same risks. In the rest of the world however PayPal still requires a card to verify. An most cards ussually don't work. This is part of why I am frustrated by that PayPal is available in 193 countries nonsesnse, while in reality it's only suited towards USA, UK and Canada. In the rest of the world, it ussually sucks as a payment provider for multitude of reasons.

And LL might not care, but PayPal can be verified by various cards, some of them can get your account blocked later on, even if they aren't listed in their TOS as not allowed, so I would be careful with that.

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Europe u can verify with Bancaccount too ...

[Phil Deakins]

The real "myth" in all of this is that people starting threads to expose myths are, in fact, posting myths

[Tari Landar]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

The real "myth" is all this is that people starting threads to expose myths are, in fact, posting myths

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Not a myth, at least not by definition, but it sure is an interesting mystery. Why on earth people would want others to not share what knowledge they do have, on the off chance it might not work for some. I'd love to know the answer to that one. 'Course I don't think we'll ever get an answer.

I've seen an awful lot of "ty that worked" messages. I have to believe not every single one of them is doing something outside of TOS, on paypal's end of course.

That's about the only thing that interests me, truly interests me, about the OP and the responses. Exactly which of paypal's TOS are being broken by sl residents? If someone says "I don't know which" or "I can't cite which".."but I know it's being done", that person loses a bit of credibility. Then I have to go look for answers myself, because curiosity often gets the better of me, lol. Ok that and, if people really are breaking the TOS, not realizing, it's always best to help them not do that, imo.

I've been dealing with paypal near since it's existance. Not with sl, of course, but e-commerce primarily. I've honestly no clue which TOS people are breaking. I'm trying really hard, and I know their TOS pretty darn well. They make certain when changes are made, we're warned, and warned a million times over. That goes like triple infinity for merchants that use paypal. Unlike most, I do read those things, lol. Why, who knows, but, I do. I don't recall any of the info people have shared, helping others to stay connected to sl as best as possible, as having broken any of their rules or TOS.So it must be in some small print I've yet to read. Or maybe it only applies to certain countries, for which I am not as well-read when it comes tot he TOS. Having international customers doesn't make us experts on all the TOS those customers have to abide by.

OP, care to share? I shall chalk this one up to being legally blind and will ask, kindly, for someone to hold my hand and point it out with a really big blinker button, if they can find it. Because it really is a very interesting point, if it is indeed true and not a....

Myth

 

 

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

I'm not a merchant or content creator, but it would make little sense for merchants to want to decrease the methods by which customers can purchase Lindens in order to shop in SL.

As for your statement regarding paypal, yes, not all paypal features are available in all of the 193 countries listed as accepting paypal. However, the example you gave indicates that it may be pricier to use but not impossible.

Of more than 2 dozen Europeans I have talked to inworld, none ever used TPE, none ever had an issue with using Lindex, and quite a few had never heard of TPE. I suspect, for many, it's more a matter of not wanting to use Lindex, not that they can't use it. On the forums we hear more about the latter than the former because people come to the forums to complain.

[Mannix Mensing]

Pretty much to the point (sadly), good post

 

I can add this, i'm in Belgium, have a verified Paypal account (and yes it has currency in it), but nothing will go through the Lindex without adding an actual credit card. So thats not an option either, which leaves some rather unsafe US type creditcards with whom i've had headaches before. 

 

On a side note, even if you have US$ left in your SL account and you try to buy L$ for exactly that amount or even less it gets declined. I thought i'd at least would be able to buy up the US$ to L$ to give away to some old friends, but not even that works. 

[Innula Zenovka]

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Mannix Mensing wrote:

Pretty much to the point (sadly), good post

 

I can add this, i'm in Belgium, have a verified Paypal account (and yes it has currency in it), but nothing will go through the Lindex without adding an actual credit card. So thats not an option either, which leaves some rather unsafe US type creditcards with whom i've had headaches before. 

 

On a side note, even if you have US$ left in your SL account and you try to buy L$ for exactly that amount or even less it gets declined. I thought i'd at least would be able to buy up the US$ to L$ to give away to some old friends, but not even that works. 

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Have you tried following the walk-through here:  Linking your PayPal without a credit card ?  She's using a Dutch account, but I am told that German people have tried that method and found it works for them, so it might work for a Belgian PayPal account, too.  

[Tari Landar]

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Mannix Mensing wrote:

Pretty much to the point (sadly), good post

 

I can add this, i'm in Belgium, have a verified Paypal account (and yes it has currency in it), but nothing will go through the Lindex without adding an actual credit card. So thats not an option either, which leaves some rather unsafe US type creditcards with whom i've had headaches before. 

 

On a side note, even if you have US$ left in your SL account and you try to buy L$ for exactly that amount or even less it gets declined. I thought i'd at least would be able to buy up the US$ to L$ to give away to some old friends, but not even that works. 

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Honestly, although I am very sorry you're having difficulties, your post was more on point than the OP's post was. The OP's post doesn't help you anymore than anything else you've read I bet.

Yours actually tells us, yes I am a resident of this country and yes I am having difficulty. If anything at all is helpful, it is that. Because it lets the people, who are able to help, know that someone needs help.(and I commend those with way more knowledge on the solutions than I am)

You didn't try to "disprove" anything(like the OP) and simply complain, but rather shared information that will be valuable. I do hope someone here can help you with this. If you are likely to be helped, it will probably be here. I know others have been helped a lot. As much as I'm not a fan of "search the forums" when it comes to answers, it might be fitting here. Maybe there is a solution that's been posted that will help you. I do hope so. If not, maybe someone with more knowledge in your area can shed some light to make this transition less of a bear for you, and others as well of course.

I hate that people are having a hard time, I really do. As much as my posts might come off as me not caring, it couldn't be further from the truth. If I could solve all the issues, I would. Everyone should be allowed to enjoy SL, when at all possible. That includes being able to buy/sell/make money (barring any forbidden activities of course, neither here nor there with this topic).

It just bothers me to see people(OP) trying to "disprove" what others have, quite kindly I might add, shared. Even if those solutions won't help everyone, they can help some, and have. That makes them good in my book.