Trust. Can you think of a situation where you had to Trust someone in SL?

[161488303349]

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stenick1 wrote:

Thanks for the response, It does sound fun.  I play a lot of online games but haven't tried a virtual realiity on the same scale as SL before, maybe I'll give it a go.

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good idea

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

I love IRC and still log in nearly every day and have been doing so for 20 years now, mainly on DALNET. Allot of the regular people on my channel I have known longer than most of my RL friends. We built up a great little community that only consists of people we like so everyone just keeps coming back to this ancient platform year on year despite the technological development of the online world around us.

I've noticed over the past year that the user numbers have really started to go up again on some servers... <snip>

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I really enjoyed IRC.  I spent a few years in a social chat channel where the regulars were like family.  As it turned out, a great many of us lived in the same area and started to get together for RL lunches, go dancing, etc.  Since where I (and many of the regulars in my first IRC "home") live is a mecca for vacations and business meetings we also got to meet others of the group who came here for business or pleasure.

Then I discovered the rp channel of which I was a part for 15 years via the aforementioned research project.  From role playing in a text-only environment, I have found that those in SL who are the best at emoting have had some text-only rp experience as well.  After my rp group migrated over to SL I still visited IRC to chat with some friends, one of whom really wanted to try SL but, even back in 2007, her PC couldn't handle it.   I haven't been back in ages but my understanding is the rp genre from which I came is still going strong on IRC.

I began on Dal until server splits started playing havoc on rp events.  Since Dal I have been on Undernet, EFnet, and a few others that are slipping my memory atm.  (I'm not old, I'm a woman "of a certain age." )

[Melita Magic]

Can you think of a situation where you had to Trust someone in SL?

__

 

I don't trust you enough to answer that.

[Tamara Artis]

LOL

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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stenick1 wrote:

 

 I think it’s you that has a weak understanding of research if you really think anyone would be stupid enough to right a paper based on the responses in a forum.  You seem to have misunderstood a space for sharing ideas with firstly a space to entertain the idea of statistically valid results and then a space to attack people. 

 

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Take a few minutes to search the forums here and you'll see we have students show up here all the time doing exactly that and wording questions the same way you did.  You have a new avatar created just before you posted, also a huge indicator of a lazy student.  You have even admitted now that you haven't been in world at all. 

You are asking us to relate personal experiences without any understanding of what SL is or sharing something about yourself.  So what basis did I have to Trust you that you just wanted a discussion and weren't one of the hundreds, yes hundreds, of students that show up here every year doing exactly what you did?

Spend some time in world and figure out what SL is really about and participate on these forums answering posts or questions that aren't so personal.  Maybe then I'd be willing to talk to you about my personal experiences of trust in SL.

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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stenick1 wrote:

I'm generally interested in trust in Virtual Games, anyone's experiences welcome

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Hmm, your comment looks suspicious...I don't trust you.

 

*pokes you with a stick* 

 

There!  I gave you information based upon my SL forum experience.  *beams*   : )

[stenick1]

I really feel I've been a bit misunderstood here.

 

Firstly, an apology for what people have rightly called me on so far... I should have browsed the forums to realise my request would look like every other 'survay' post with people trying to 'get others to do their work for them'.

 

Secondly let me explain my actual thought process prior to the post.  I've been researching and writing about trust in instant message chat and experimentally constructed problems all day.  As almost an outlet from researching the same thing tirelessly I decided to throw somthing on here to see if anyone had any Examples of trust situations in SL.  I guess I just wanted to read about somthing interesting about trust that I hadn't already read a million times.

 

And YES, I know I should have just searched for papers on it first, and YES I should have checked the forum for similiar post, and probably should have worded my post better.  But I was generally just venting and hoping for a new, interesting discusssion to emerge.

 

Sidenote:  Believe me, My research interests are so restricted and dominated by my supervisor at the moment that NOTHING from the forum could go into any paper I am currently writing.  Responses are purely for my own personal interest in the subject.

 

Thanks 

[stenick1]

Thanks, this is the kind of trust I'm interested in.  Relying on people to fulfill there end of the bargain.  It's cool to think the same trust problems in RL are present in SL... in my geeky opinion anyway, this is cool to me

[Czari Zenovka]

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stenick1 wrote:

I really feel I've been a bit misunderstood here.

 

Firstly, an apology for what people have rightly called me on so far... I should have browsed the forums to realise my request would look like every other 'survay' post with people trying to 'get others to do their work for them'.

 

Secondly let me explain my actual thought process prior to the post.  I've been researching and writing about trust in instant message chat and experimentally constructed problems all day.  As almost an outlet from researching the same thing tirelessly I decided to throw somthing on here to see if anyone had any Examples of trust situations in SL.  I guess I just wanted to read about somthing interesting about trust that I hadn't already read a million times.

 

And YES, I know I should have just searched for papers on it first, and YES I should have checked the forum for similiar post, and probably should have worded my post better.  But I was generally just venting and hoping for a new, interesting discusssion to emerge.

 

Sidenote:  Believe me, My research interests are so restricted and dominated by my supervisor at the moment that NOTHING from the forum could go into any paper I am currently writing.  Responses are purely for my own personal interest in the subject.

 

Thanks 

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*Reinstates your 2 points and adds 2 more*

Seriously though, it takes courage and a big person to come back and respond in this manner.  Well done and good luck with the info you are seeking.

[stenick1]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

*Reinstates your 2 points and adds 2 more*

Seriously though, it takes courage and a big person to come back and respond in this manner.  Well done and good luck with the info you are seeking.

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Thanks for the kind words.  People have already posted some interesting stuff... Hopefully this thread can keep going a little longer now that mine, and hopefully others, interest is piqued. 

[Perrie Juran]

 

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stenick1 wrote:

Secondly let me explain my actual thought process prior to the post.  I've been researching and writing about trust in instant message chat and experimentally constructed problems all day.  As almost an outlet from researching the same thing tirelessly I decided to throw somthing on here to see if anyone had any Examples of trust situations in SL.  I guess I just wanted to read about somthing interesting about trust that I hadn't already read a million times.

 

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This is one of my all time favorite videos.

Trust is a topic that interests me also.  I think it interests everyone.  Who do we trust. Can we trust someone.  How do you earn someone's trust. 

I think one axiom is that Trust and Honesty are inseperable bed fellows.

I think we would all like to trust. 

But it doesn't always come easy.

[stenick1]

 

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This is one of my all time favorite videos.

Trust is a topic that interests me also.  I think it interests everyone.  Who do we trust. Can we trust someone.  How do you earn someone's trust. 

I think one axiom is that Trust and Honesty are inseperable bed fellows.

I think we would all like to trust. 

But it doesn't always come easy.

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Recently I've been on a train of thought that makes me think trust is the reciprication of ideas and principles.. If you're just like me, I trust me! ... so I can trust you.  

Can we ever completely trust someone? It's kind of a catch 22, if you're 100% sure someone will do somthing for you, or keep your secret, is it really trust?? Don't we need to an element of doubt for us to make a trust call.

And how do you earn someones trust?  Tough one.  Obviously it must be some way that you present yourself, the actions you take, the way you dress, the way you speak... Which is what makes trust so interesting in SL, when our presentation has undergone an extra step from our presentation in RL.  (just like the words are one removed from what those two people actually feel in that great video)

Ahhhh, I love a ramble

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

This is one of my all time favorite videos.

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Hmmmmm...maybe that is what's behind the "cool" responses I receive sometimes when I'm chatting with a male friend.  I've usually said something to which I would expect more than a one-word answer. 

*Goes off to ponder this*

Edit: grammar

[Perrie Juran]

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stenick1 wrote:

 

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This is one of my all time favorite videos.

 

 

Trust is a topic that interests me also.  I think it interests everyone.  Who do we trust. Can we trust someone.  How do you earn someone's trust. 

I think one axiom is that Trust and Honesty are inseperable bed fellows.

I think we would all like to trust. 

But it doesn't always come easy.

---

Recently I've been on a train of thought that makes me think trust is the reciprication of ideas and principles.. If you're just like me, I trust me! ... so I can trust you.  

Can we ever completely trust someone? It's kind of a catch 22, if you're 100% sure someone will do somthing for you, or keep your secret, is it really trust?? Don't we need to an element of doubt for us to make a trust call.

And how do you earn someones trust?  Tough one.  Obviously it must be some way that you present yourself, the actions you take, the way you dress, the way you speak... Which is what makes trust so interesting in SL, when our presentation has undergone an extra step from our presentation in RL.  (just like the words are one removed from what those two people actually feel in that great video)

Ahhhh, I love a ramble

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I have two friends in RL who were only acquainted with each other.

Friend A did not have a high regard for Friend B due to an unfavorable first impression.  I was not aware of this.

One day I happened to mention something Friend B did for me, how they had stepped up to the plate for me in a situation where I really needed some help.  The help was unsolicited, they just happenned to have heard of my problem.

Friend A said to me, "I'm really glad you told me about this.  I may have had the completely wrong idea about Friend B."  The net result has been Friend A and B getting closer.

[Knowl Paine]

Some examples of Trust.

 

I need you to add me as an Estate Manager, in order to be able to help you.

I need the ability to edit your objects.

Can you add me as a Group Manager?

I will set my Land for sale to you for 1 L$, you can do the same for me.

I am unable to login to SL, I will pay my rent of Monday; please don't return my stuff.

[161488303349]

trust is an obligation we put on others. sometimes with their permission. sometimes not. putting an obligation on someone else without their permission is an act of betrayal

act of trust: can i tell you my secret that you cant tell anyone?

act of betrayal: i am tell you my secret. dont tell anyone

+

take your (Knowl) examples. which are pretty good ones and show the differences

1)

- "I need you to add me as an Estate Manager, in order to be able to help you."

- "I need the ability to edit your objects."

- "Can you add me as a Group Manager?"

these all good examples of an act of trust

+

2)

- "I am unable to login to SL, I will pay my rent of Monday; please don't return my stuff."

this not an act of trust. is an act of betrayal

like how can you ask me this when you have betrayed me already by not pay your rent on the agreed date?

+

3)

- "I will set my Land for sale to you for 1 L$, you can do the same for me."

this an interesting one. bc is not as clearcut as 1) and 2)

the request is for an act of trust. same as group 1). but in group 1) acts there is no alternative. if the help is to happen with group 1)s then must trust and accept that if betrayed then is no remedy

in group 3) there is an ameliorating action that can offset a betrayal before committing to the act of trust

like can do the swap at prevailing land market rates

 

[stenick1]

That's an interesting way of looking at Trust.  

Most people see trust from the view of the trustor (person placing trust) so trust is ME being Vulnerable to how YOU might act.

But you seem to see it from the point of view of the trustee (person being trusted) who has either rightly or wrongly been laiden with trust.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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stenick1 wrote:

To others, apologies for calling SL a game, that's a term I should have really checked appropriate before posting.

To Amethyst

, 

Thank you for that incredibly cynical reply.  I’m actually interested in trust in general, it’s an interesting research area for me and something I look at regularly in non-virtual settings.

 I felt like considering some things in a virtual setting and thought a forum (an informal channel to share ideas) would  be a good place to start.

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You thought wrong.

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stenick1 wrote:

 I think it’s you that has a weak understanding of research if you really think anyone would be stupid enough to

write

a paper based on the responses in a forum.  You seem to have misunderstood a space for sharing ideas with firstly a space to entertain the idea of statistically valid results and then a space to attack people. 

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Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay.

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stenick1 wrote:

As a regular contributor to forums for activities I am more knowledgeable on

,

I personally enjoy responding to these sort of discussions proposed by a lay person.  I'm sure other people will eventually reply to this post happy to help me become more

knowledgeable

, It's just a shame unhelpful sorts such as yourself insist on wasting

every ones

time first.

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One would think a person as knowledgeable as yourself would be able to spell properly and use proper grammar and punctuation. Seriously, "right" a paper?!?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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stenick1 wrote:

  I guess I just wanted to read about

something

interesting about trust that I hadn't already read a million times.

  But I was generally just venting and hoping for a new, interesting

discussion

to emerge.

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So you decided to post a request for information on a forum you have never been in before and are not really a part of the world it is associated with... So, basically, we are here to amuse you and do what you want. We are your puppets.

/me kneels: Yes Master, what do you wish your trained dogs to do now for your amusement?

That really comes of as self righteous and very very smug.

[161488303349]

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stenick1 wrote:

That's an interesting way of looking at Trust.  

Most people see trust from the view of the trustor (person placing trust) so trust is ME being Vulnerable to how YOU might act.

But you seem to see it from the point of view of the trustee (person being trusted) who has either rightly or wrongly been laiden with trust.

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trust is a symbiotic relationship with betrayal

same like good/evil. love/hate. positive/negative

one with out the other. or the concept of the other. dont make any sense

in a world where we always do the right/correct/positive thing then is no concept of trust good and love

+

imposing trust is an act of betrayal. bc we are not asking them for their trust. we are demanding it of them. we are betray our relationship as equals. so when we measure this against the binary simbiotic trust/betrayal then can see which side it falls on

 

edit:

consider

you must love me

 

[SinfulPrince]

I bet this is the quickest education you ever got.

/me walks off thinking "poor b*stard"

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

That really comes of as self righteous and very very smug.

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Myep, there's a lot of that going around.

[Bree Giffen]

I can think of a situation that came up quite often for me and that is making business transactions where you give the client something, eg. an prim object, animation, a texture, etc. and they give you linden dollars. In real life it may not be a big deal but in SL someone could take what you just gave them (usually full perm) and teleport away before paying you.

Normally when you sell things in SL you put it in a prim and the prim sells it's contents to the other person. It's an automated system that guarantees both parties get what is due. However, if you are just transferring an item directly to an avatar or if you are paying money to someone there is quite a lot of trust needed. I'd do this with relative strangers that I'd talked to for just a short while. I've never had any problems.

Come to think of it there is a lot of trust when you give someone a full perm object that you created. That object is essentially 'out there'  and you have completely no control over how it will be used in the future.

[stenick1]

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One would think a person as knowledgeable as yourself would be able to spell properly and use proper grammar and punctuation. Seriously, "right" a paper?!?

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I have trouble with spelling and grammar. 

I said I wanted to become more knowledgeable.  How did you get that I was claiming to be excessively knowledgeable from that?!

Correcting grammar in place of Rebuttal, Congratulations, you've added nothing to the discussion. 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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stenick1 wrote:

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One would think a person as knowledgeable as yourself would be able to spell properly and use proper grammar and punctuation. Seriously, "right" a paper?!?

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I have trouble with spelling and grammar. 

I said I wanted to become more knowledgeable.  How did you get that I was claiming to be excessively knowledgeable from that?!

Correcting grammar in place of Rebuttal, Congratulations, you've added nothing to the discussion. 

 

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Fine, i will add to your knowledge then...

Yes, I can think of several situations in SL where i have had to trust someone..

No, I don't care to share private information with a complete stranger.

Nosey, aren't you.

 

You could easily have asked  "Trust. Can you think of a situation where you had to Trust someone in RL?" As they have quite a bit in common.

Common sense would dictate that there will be situations in every part of life where you will have to trust someone, be it in RL , SL or a MMO (i will add you to my team, trusting that you actually know how to play and wont kill me for kicks.)  It's a stupid question.