Are Your Sales Going To Suffer Because Of Server Side Baking?

[Rihanna Irata]

Oh come on, nobody have even tryd it yet and people are already raging?

 

And it looks like, by some posters here, that sl was made just for them, sl world spins around them, and if they dont like or want something, than it must happen theyr way. Sorry but technologies are evolving and everything is changing, if you cant keep up than its your own problom.

 

Im i only for new improvments and changes. For the love of god, after all these years sim crossing is stil pain in the ass

[Duckie Dickins]

I'm just going to toss my two cents into this. This isn't an issue of server side baking at all. This is about a portion of SL residents refusing to upgrade to a version 3 based viewer which has been out since august 23, 2011 according to the wiki release notes. That's over a year to get along with the program and update your system. If you were using Phoenix which supports mesh, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to use firestorm.

As far as impact on sales, I'm sure there might be a slight hiccup during the transition period but I seriously doubt you'll see that much of a dip in concurrency statistics or sales overall. I honestly have been looking forward to this update so that phoenix can finally be deprecated so people will stop dragging their heels. It's just like the dinosaurs.....you either evolve or go extinct....

[Toysoldier Thor]

As has been said in the thread a couple times and even several blog links to validate what is happening in the next few months, the Phoenix team is ONLY dropping support for Phoenix - not Firestorm. 

If you are one that hates FS and or your PC/Laptop is not capable of running FS then there are other competing V1 viewers that will be around for a couple more months before LL will break ALL current and older versions of viewers (including the current LL V3).  In fact, just because Phoenix is not officially supporting Phoenix, you can still continue to use the current Phoenix viewer until this big manditory viewer code upgrade for the grid is required.  Just dont go asking the phoenix team "why does this not work with Phoenix - they will no longer be helping you on these questions".

In a couple months, ALL viewers - including the current LL V3 viewer will need to be updated with the new server side coding in order for you to exist feasibly on the grid - or you wont be seeing any rezzed avatars.  LL has warned all 3PV makers about this deadline and LL, Phoenix's FS, and I am sure most other 3PV makers will release an updated version of their viewer that will support it.  But you can be assured that Phoenix viewer will NOT be one of those updates.

Now, if you are a SL resident with a desktop that is too old to use the newer Viewers, sadly for you its time to upgrade your system.  I know in this economy, for many every $ spent on non-essentials counts.  At least for PCs your cost to upgrade MIGHT be very low cost since unless your motherboard is REALLL OLD, you can simply buy a reasonable Graphics card for as low as $20 (I just saw a sale on an ATI Radion 5450 for $19.97).  If you have a motherboard that is too old to even support these graphic cards... well sorry but really is time to use your PC as a doorstop and get a good new system (there are systems for the $250 that will even do the trick).

If you have an old laptop with technology that doesnt support the V3+ code, your options are more limited since you cannot upgrade a graphics card on a laptop - its integrated.  You need a new laptop.

Yes Change of this magnitude can be painful for some of the userbase but there comes a time for a company, system, user population, etc. where old legacy technology, practices, beliefs, practices have to be abandoned to benefit the vast majority.  This is one of those times and I 100% agree with both Phoenix's decision as well as LL's decision.

The benefit is that this forced change in a few months will ensure that ALL users will once again be back on a common viewer code base where we all see have very similar fundamental features (i.e. MESH as a big example).

How will this impact the Merchant community?  Overall I think its a POSITIVE since at least for the MESH Creator community, a major hurdle will have been removed.  Right now about 20-30% of SL residents still cannot see mesh.  This factor impacts the popularity and buying decision of customers that want to use mesh for public spaces or wear mesh in public but are nervous about it not being seen by that large a population.

Also, having all the population on a new and common code base in theory should improve viewer trouble support handling since anyone that is working on fixing code can focus on only one codebase.  A more stable and better operating experience on the grid is a happier customer means higher commitment to invest in using the grid.

That being said, there are still long standing V3 only bugs that LL has not addressed - the most notable is the Frozen attachments on notifications bug.  With non-resolved bugs like this, there is no escaping it by going to the older V1.

Those are my thoughts.

[Couldbe Yue]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

For what it's worth, I believe that the only redeeming value that SL has ever had is to provide the ability for people to earn an income.

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I'll disagree with you there, SL has always been a place that gives people a chance to touch the stars.

(and not in the dirty way you lot are probably thinking.. tsk!)

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Ouch! Last I heard adult regions are gaining during the decline (up to 13% adult regions), so can you blame me for an impure thought or two?

It leads me to romance as a guess, but that's not an SL exclusive, and neither is creativity or art. I'm either coming up empty or intentionally feigning ignorance.

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I'd never blame you for an impure thought  :matte-motes-kiss: 

To me, SL has never cared about what you look like, your socio-economic status, education or any thing else, it's always been a place where you can only really be judged on what you say, how you behave and what you do. The icing on top of that is that it gives everyone the potential to be whatever they want.  It's not just about money, it's about achieving things that you didn't even know you were interested in or ever could do.  Social or physical isolation are as irrelevant in here as anything else to do with meatspace. If you can log in, there's a good chance you can take your dreams (or develop new dreams) and run with them.  That's the magic this place offers.

To quote Oscar Wilde "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."

[Trinity Yazimoto]

i dont know if my sales or other's sales will suffer because of server side baking. I understand what pain it can be for some pp to upgrade their viewer bec of technical limits with their comp, or simply bec of their choice. 

But, in another hand, from what ive been told and what i learnt, the new baking system sounds like a great improvement. It will skip several of the steps that are now necessary for baking, to make it really really more simple and less laggy. If it is what is promised, this will be a great benefit for everyone. Im not likely to be enthusiastic for changes above all when they are coming from LL, since they are usually not really usefull, but i think this one woth the try.

If pp have less lag, maybe they will be more in mood for shopping lol. 

And well, SL is not the only thing asking for better comp performances. Everything on the web is everytime in evolution and comps are quickly out of date or at least need to upgrade drivers or systems. This is not the fault of SL, this is simply the way technologies and internet are runing. .

[Medhue Simoni]

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sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Have to say my old (well worn) laptop is getting close to 7 now and still manages to run every viewer I have yet to throw at it so yes I tend to think the 'my machine can't run it' thing is a little off. Granted, it can't do much but then again...if I'm on it its because its capable of what I want it for. My main box is hitting 4 and the same - was never anything more than mid range and the cheapest i could get ( yes the video tends to sulk when I really push it but hey keeps my lower paws warm =^^= ). Just for fun I fired up an even older junker someone asked me to take off their hands (was that or landfill) and yes .. a quick clean up and functional.

As for viewers I switch between the (usually) two release back V3 and a TPV, again depending on what I am doing. And as ) and if ) theres ever any spare cash I will upgrade it piece by piece. We recently did a makeover on my partners including near everything bar the case and PSU - now runs the latest FS (for example) at ultra all for around a total cost of 250 bucks (approx)

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Those are great points. Even if some1 does not know how to swap out parts, or have a pc that can not have parts changed, a new pc that will run SL great is only about 300 bucks. Now, of course, I understand that not every1 has the money for a new pc, but to go 7 years without some kinds of upgrades is a very long time.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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But at least Medhue, Gadget, Porky, and apparently Drake will be happy to not have to see my Luddite presence here. 

 

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That's cold, i never said i don't want you or anyone else here.. before you go lobbing stones my way perhaps you should know i am in the same boat as you are. My wife is disabled and i take care of her. i put away $10 a month to save for a new graphics card so she could use SL properly. perhaps you could ask for one for xmas.

my parents are upgrading my PC for me this year as a joint brithday / xmas gift. i went on craigslist and found several people giving away desktops that still worked. my dad took me to get them and i cobbled together a working system for my kids to do school work on, yes it can run firestorm easily on low settings.

hopefully things work out for you. there are always options if one looks hard enough.

[Phoebe Avro]

There is another bug, http textures and this server side baking will require http textures!

On firestorm and phoenix I have to turn it off otherwise textures load very slowly if at all

I don't know what %age of people suffer from this but I am guessing its high, so if LL don't fix this first there will be a lot of unhappy people in SL

[Czari Zenovka]

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

 

Now, if you are a SL resident with a desktop that is too old to use the newer Viewers, sadly for you its time to upgrade your system.  I know in this economy, for many every $ spent on non-essentials counts.  At least for PCs your cost to upgrade MIGHT be very low cost since unless your motherboard is REALLL OLD, you can simply buy a reasonable Graphics card for as low as $20 (I just saw a sale on an ATI Radion 5450 for $19.97).  If you have a motherboard that is too old to even support these graphic cards... well sorry but really is time to use your PC as a doorstop and get a good new system (there are systems for the $250 that will even do the trick).

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Yes, Toy, my MB is REALLLY OLD and cannot be upgraded.  As Couldbe said, it does not have the SEE2 technology. 

 

 

To address some other posters, no I don't think SL revolves around me.  I used to teach computer application software as an Adjunct Professor at a Jr. College and kept my PC upgraded as needed, so I am definitely NOT against technology progressing.  The only reason I spelled out my specific life circumstances at this point, which I have not done publically, is to show some of us are not just being stubborn in not updating our PCs.  For some of us it is NOT BS, but after 9 months of having this shoved in my face, I guess I couldn't expect selfish people to suddenly become less selfish.  Those of you who are pointing at me saying, "If you won't update - too bad" could be turned around when you make comments about "everyone should use ultra-high graphics" as being selfish because that's what YOU prefer.  And at least you have the choice to do so.

I do thank those of you who have been and continue to be supportive - Couldbe, Dartagnan, Darrius, Amethyst, Sassy, Arwen, Deja, and some others I'm likely forgetting but thank heartily.

I didn't think of checking in with Goodwill and/or see if there is a program to provide PC assstance for disabled.  Prior to my illness I lived a different lifestyle.  I hold a Master's Degree, as stated I have worked in technology, both with a Fortune 500 company (NCR), a franchise organization that sold the first IBM PCs in 1981 as well as my work in the Jr. College teaching software applications.  I was chosen as the instructor for personnel from Walt Disney World to observe when our college was tied with another organization to get the WDW contract to teach our program at Disney University.  Not only did our college win the contract, but Disney University specified they wanted me as the lead instructor.  I have been a psycho-social counselor for Hospice, and worked with a large insurance firm.  In short - I led a "normal" life and was a contributing member of society.  Accepting that that was no longer possible and having my income reduced to sub-poverty level was EXTREMELY difficult for me to come to grips with.  Do you have any idea how demeaning it is to hand food stamps to the cashier when checking out?  My first response to my Dr. when he said it was time for disability was,"But I'm not the Welfare type!!!"  He then explained the difference between Welfare and Disability.  The reason I mention this is that I am not "savvy" about the system.  I'm from generations of hard workers, not people who know how to work the system when they are young and able-bodied.

Am I passionate about this issue?  You bet!!  I don't take lightly "I-can't-afford-a-PC is BS."  When I stated in the past that some people were unable to buy new PCs I kept it generic and figured the ignorant comments were just that...ignorance based on one's own little world and/or lack of life experiences.  But when I bite the bullet and open myself wide open in hopes of bringing some understanding that not everyone is being "stubborn" about upgrading and still get the comments from some of you...you're past ignorant...you are cruel.

Toy, I honestly didn't expect this of you.   I will be in touch with those of you who have made positive suggestions, but this is the last I am going to say on this issue in the forums.

Edit to correct spelling and grammar and to say further comments are in direct response to posters I had not yet read.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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But at least Medhue, Gadget, Porky, and apparently Drake will be happy to not have to see my Luddite presence here. 

 

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That's cold, i never said i don't want you or anyone else here.. before you go lobbing stones my way perhaps you should know i am in the same boat as you are. My wife is disabled and i take care of her. i put away $10 a month to save for a new graphics card so she could use SL properly. perhaps you could ask for one for xmas.

my parents are upgrading my PC for me this year as a joint brithday / xmas gift. i went on craigslist and found several people giving away desktops that still worked. my dad took me to get them and i cobbled together a working system for my kids to do school work on, yes it can run firestorm easily on low settings.

hopefully things work out for you. there are always options if one looks hard enough.

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Yes, I was cold on purpose because I have been through nine solid months of hearing Gadget/Medhue tell me if I can't upgrade my PC then I should leave SL.  Think that's cold or not hurtful?

Since you are familiar with disability situations, I would expect more understanding from you.  I do apologize if I mistakenly lumped you in with the other two in error.  I was basing that on your response to the SL closing issue which is a whole other can of worms

In my case, as I stated, what I receive basically pays for rent...period.  I am single - no other income other than the disability check.  EVERYTHING else is paid for by a family member who thinks the internet is only for perverts at worst and a time-waster at best, thus is not real motivated to help me in this regard.  If I took $10.00 each month...it would be a long time before I could even purchase an inexpensive PC.  A year for $120.00, etc.

Again, I apologize if I misunderstood your comments.

[Perrie Juran]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

 

........It has no real practical value in education, or corporate business or as research, or even as a prototyping applications these days.......

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While education in Virtual Worlds is still in its infancy, there are many educators in SL who might take great exception to your statement. 

Especially when if you look, there are as I recall, over 400 accredited institutions registered with Linden Lab.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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But at least Medhue, Gadget, Porky, and apparently Drake will be happy to not have to see my Luddite presence here. 

 

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That's cold, i never said i don't want you or anyone else here.. before you go lobbing stones my way perhaps you should know i am in the same boat as you are. My wife is disabled and i take care of her. i put away $10 a month to save for a new graphics card so she could use SL properly. perhaps you could ask for one for xmas.

my parents are upgrading my PC for me this year as a joint brithday / xmas gift. i went on craigslist and found several people giving away desktops that still worked. my dad took me to get them and i cobbled together a working system for my kids to do school work on, yes it can run firestorm easily on low settings.

hopefully things work out for you. there are always options if one looks hard enough.

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Yes, I was cold on purpose because I have been through nine solid months of hearing Gadget/Medhue tell me if I can't upgrade my PC then I should leave SL.  Think that's cold or not hurtful?

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There is no way in the world that I would want you, or any1 else to leave SL. My argument is that computers are cheaper than they have ever been. Yes, I completely understand when some1's situation is that they can't afford a new pc, but for the most part, that is not the general situation of most people in SL. In general, most people that have a low end pc, just don't prioritize the pc for what they want to do with it. I myself, have done the same, and I only have to buy new computers because whatever system I'm currently using can't do what I need it to do.

Now, I know, none of what I've just said helps you at all, and if I had a pc that I knew wouldn't die on you tomorrow, I'd send it to you. I've given away my other computers, that are decent, to friends. I do understand your situation better than some, because my son is disabled and now he is older and recieves some disability money, which barely covers his food. He could never live on his own, without more assistance from myself or the state. So, I do have a decent understanding of some of the problems. I've actually been brainstorming things he could do to make some spending cash for hisself.

All that said, it's just not possible to keep old computers running on this platform. Possibly, what we as the community could do, is have fund raisers for people who reasonably can't afford to upgrade. I'd be all for a program like this, and I'm more than willing to donate AOs or other things to auction off for such a fund raiser. If any1 wants to put something like this together, just let me know and I'll donate what I can.

[Czari Zenovka]

Thank you for your post, Medhue.  It truly touched me and shows that I've misjudged you.  For that I most sincerely apologize.

I do agree some people for whatever reason don't consider their PC a priority.  My guess is that those people would probably not be too concerned about leaving SL, but I could be wrong.

SL has been so integral to my life these last number of years.  As previously mentioned, when I was working...I had a high-end gaming PC - errrr for the year it was built - and kept updating it until I became ill.  Probably *because* I invested so much into my PC is why it still runs SL...lol, at least on v1.
 

Want to clarify that in no way was my post a bid for a handout or money.  It was hard enough to accept that I needed to go on disability...not sure my pride could take that hit, but it is an amazing thought on your part.

Again, Medhue, I sincerely apologize to you.

[Medhue Simoni]

There is no need to apologize at all. I, more than any1, realize that I can be agressive and seem cold with my language. And really, I should have been more sensitive to this issue, as I know for a fact that a good percentage of SL residents are disabled. Possibly, I was blinded by the viewer wars that have gone on for a couple of years now.

I mean what I've said tho. I'm not an event organizer and would do a crappy job of organizing anything, but I'd be more than willing to do what I can to help out with a benefit to help those that need a new pc for the upcoming changes. To any person that might put something like this together, I'll make a custom AO for them and they can pick and choose which animations they would like.

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

 

Now, if you are a SL resident with a desktop that is too old to use the newer Viewers, sadly for you its time to upgrade your system.  I know in this economy, for many every $ spent on non-essentials counts.  At least for PCs your cost to upgrade MIGHT be very low cost since unless your motherboard is REALLL OLD, you can simply buy a reasonable Graphics card for as low as $20 (I just saw a sale on an ATI Radion 5450 for $19.97).  If you have a motherboard that is too old to even support these graphic cards... well sorry but really is time to use your PC as a doorstop and get a good new system (there are systems for the $250 that will even do the trick).

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Yes, Toy, my MB is REALLLY OLD and cannot be upgraded.  As Couldbe said, it does not have the SEE2 technology. 

...

 

S."  When I stated in the past that some people were unable to buy new PCs I kept it generic and figured the ignorant comments were just that...ignorance based on one's own little world and/or lackeof life experiences.  But when I bite the bullet and open myself wide open in hopes of bringing some understanding that not everyone is being "stubborn" about upgrading and still get the comments from some of you...you're past ignorant...you are cruel.

Toy, I honestly didn't expect this of you.

  I will be in touch with those of you who have made positive suggestions, but this is the last I am going to say on this issue in the forums.

Edit to correct spelling and grammar and to say further comments are in direct response to posters I had not yet read.

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I am a bit confused Czari why you are disappointed in my posting.  I was in no way attacking you .  I was just making a general posting to the thread about the up-coming changes. 

I am not advocating anything.  LL has made technology business decisions that they MUST move forward or hold back the vast majority of their customer base.  The old customer technology cannot be supported forever unless LL wants to risk losing their entire grid / cash cow SL to competition by dying a slow fragmented death trying to support a minority of their user base.

There are options for those that have issues with their technology not being supported by LL's decision.  Upgrade is one.  The other is to move to another competing grid like IW that still supports the old V1 viewers - for now.

But I am sorry if you somehow took my posting as a personal attack on you.  Again - it was a general non-pointed posting about the situation,

[Couldbe Yue]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

Want to clarify that in no way was my post a bid for a handout or money.  It was hard enough to accept that I needed to go on disability...not sure my pride could take that hit, but it is an amazing thought on your part.

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This would be a gift from people* who still want you around. 

so, your options are:

• contact goodwill and see if they have anything to offer and get a price
• tell us what your system spec is and we can see if we can price a low cost upgrade for you
• nosey around craiglist and see if anyone is giving something away and hopefully one of your family will take you over there to get it.
• price a new pc and we'll try to find us an events manager (my people skills don't survive actual contact with people)

and once you're back with a decent bit of kit we'll round up some peeps and have a look and a talk about your store to see if we can optimise it a bit to generate a bit more income for you.

*aka those filthy internet perverts that the relative of yours has no time for.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

 

*aka those filthy internet perverts that the relative of yours has no time for.

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This gave me the first good laugh of my day.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Just thought of one other place to check.  Check Freecycle periodically too.  This site is dedicated to people who have things they can't use anymore and want to recycle things to avoid throwing them out and filling up landfills.  Occasionally I've seen decent computers on there too.  You can search by your area and arrange a pickup and in some cases a delivery or if you find one outside your area some are willing to ship to you on your dime.  The items themselves are free however.

Recycling is a good thing.:smileyhappy:

[Cerise Sorbet]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

I don't understand a bit of the technology behind server side baking. What I understand from it, after a quick read here and there, is that processes that first took place in the viewer, in the future will take place on the server.

What I am actually curious about is: will it have any influence on how easy it is to rip content from creators? Will this new way improve things for us merchants, when it comes to content ripping? Or does it not make any difference at all?

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It won't make ripping any easier, but it won't make it much harder either. It does remove one avenue to grab textures, but that probably wasn't the most convenient one.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

 

........It has no real practical value in education, or corporate business or as research, or even as a prototyping applications these days.......

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While education in Virtual Worlds is still in its infancy, there are many educators in SL who might take great exception to your statement. 

Especially when if you look, there are as I recall, over 400 accredited institutions registered with Linden Lab.

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I did say "practical" educational uses. Seriously though for networking and internal uses SL may be of value. I think in producing anything useful outside of acedemia though, it's less so.

Unless students have proven to learn better and faster within virtual worlds, or they've disrupted the high cost of education with a multitude of free or low cost virtual learning resources, I'm ranking courses involving virtual world research or social networking up there with courses in pole dancing. Not exactly where you'd like to blow your savings on your son or daughters future..

The only difference is that pole dancing courses will at least earn them a living.

I do have thoughts on the matter, though ... see the chapter on How To Take a Survey in my upcoming book: Virtual Worlds for New England Rednecks. I'll be giving free copies to all LL employes. (10% discount for select Martians).

Thanks to you guys in this thread for showing the humanity behind the avatars in time for some holiday spirit. This forum and people in it are probably the only thing that keeps me around SL. Happy holidays to the lot of you pervs and misfits.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

[Czari Zenovka]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

Thanks to you guys in this thread for showing the humanity behind the avatars in time for some holiday spirit. This forum and people in it are probably the only thing that keeps me around SL. Happy holidays to the lot of you pervs and misfits.

 

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I want to echo this sentiment and although some of it it may have stemmed from me going on a rampage (have I mentioned I'm a redhead? :matte-motes-bashful:) seeing the "humanity behind the avatars" has been truly heart-warming for me.  I've also reminded myself to not read/post on the forums when I'm at max-stress level so I don't hurt others due to my own issues.  My sincere apologies to those of you who got hit by shrapnel.

 

 

Watching many of you jump in with excellent suggestions and offers of help had me crying (in a good way).  I feel like I "know" some of you whose posts I've been reading for years much better and again shows me how badly I misjudged others.

An update on my PC issue:  Awhile back my "relative" did finally realize how important SL is to me and gave a gift to me of money to put towards a new PC.  Being the type who has to research anything out the yin-yang before purchasing, I began looking at PCs online, in stores, as well as going to a local PC store that builds computers to try to get an idea of prices, while finding a PC that will not have to be updated for SL for some time.  I asked for suggestions in the General forum as well as speaking to some friends individually.  I became more confused as everyone had a different idea.

While I was still in "debating mode" - some unexpected expenses arose for which I had to use some of the PC money, well - quite a bit of it.  I have some other medical expenses coming up very soon and that money is the only way I can pay for it so I had decided I could deal with limping along in Phoenix.  I'm pretty much used to seeing mesh as geometric figures or avatars missing half their bodies and I've used 64m draw distance for years.  Then the announcement of the server-side avatar baking came and that threw me back into a tailspin.

However my relative, who is my beloved mother and without whom I have no idea how I could afford anything...as well as being my best friend in the world, has now said that she will reimburse me for the unexpected expenses, thus having some funds again to purchase a PC.  I'm still concerned about upcoming medical expenses and can't expect my mother to pay for them so I feel like I shouldn't spend all of the money given to me on a PC.   Therefore, the excellent suggestions such as checking with Goodwill, Freecycle, etc. are avenues I will explore.  Having always been able to purchase goods that I needed, now having to watch every penny is a learning experience.  With so many loss of jobs in the past couple of years however, this is likely a skill many people are learning.

Again, many, many thanks to all of you.  A positive outcome of my poor behavior has been an addition of several people I will now call "friend."

 

 

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Love it!!!  Thank you for posting this.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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I want to echo this sentiment and although some of it it may have stemmed from me going on a rampage (

have I mentioned I'm a redhead

? :matte-motes-bashful:)

Again, many, many thanks to all of you.  A positive outcome of my poor behavior has been an addition of several people I will now call "friend."

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1. can i just say YUM?

2. i would be honored to have you as a friend.

3. Did i mention the YUM? (i have a thing for red heads)

[Czari Zenovka]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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I want to echo this sentiment and although some of it it may have stemmed from me going on a rampage (

have I mentioned I'm a redhead

? :matte-motes-bashful:)

Again, many, many thanks to all of you.  A positive outcome of my poor behavior has been an addition of several people I will now call "friend."

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1. can i just say YUM?

2. i would be honored to have you as a friend.

3. Did i mention the YUM? (i have a thing for red heads)

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The YUM is duly noted.

I'd be most honored to have you as a friend as well, Drake.