this is a major issues LL please Upgrad the SL servers

[BendableJade]

ok so as my experince wih SL everything is been messing up alot so here are ines and others people issuess or problems

1.Crashing

 

Crashing happens when some one entry the reigho with lets of stuff or they are wearing a have item or object with scrips int it and it's crashing everybody in it

 

2. Crahsers are people also know as Grifers.trollers and etc waalks in to a sim and do what every they can to crash the sim and have it off line for a period of time

now i am not the only person here who is tried of this now this needs to stop better yet LL Upgrad yall servers with some beter sercuity to keep things like this from happening ok serious and 3rd party viewers as will if LL can upgrad there servers and make it more stable maybe SL can work better and wont have serious bug and glitch and etc thats caseing problems and issues ok so LL please Upgrad the Servers serious

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Practically nothing you mentioned or listed as issues have anything at all to do with servers.  Of all the issues and problems in SL, the servers are just about the strongest component that makes up Second Life.  The servers don't have a thing to do with poorly written scripts, or poorly made textures, or improperly made sculpties or mesh.  The servers certainly nothing to do with griefers.

The software that makes up the grid runs on the servers.......and, I'm sure that software needs some work to make it better.  But SL began as an experiment about 10 years ago and it's still an experiment today.  The software has been patched and added to thousands of times..........some of those additions and patches don't quite work like the plan (but, remember, SL is an experiment).  It's getting better (you should have been here when I got here.....when was the last time you remember the entire grid going down for hours (even days) due to some serious bug (or a griefer taking the grid down)?  Probably never since I don't believe you would say what you said if you had been here.

I've been on SL forums for a very long time (with this avatar, since April, 2006) and I've heard all the complaints about SL crashing.  The vast majority of those crashes that people complain about have been on the users end........they have a problem with their computer, their network, their software, and/or they just don't know what they are doing.  That is still the case today.  It's easier to point a finger at LL for your problems than to work to try to fix the problem that is on your end.  LL cannot fix something that is outside their network......that's up to someone else.  Believe it or not, LL does tend to their equipment and it's very reliable with very few problems (other than the software upgrades they do weekly).  The servers, themselves, are really quite solid and perform as well as any set of servers for almost any other major network.  It would help you to understand if you dug a little and learned just what a server is and what's required to run it.........and to learn what I server can not do.

On the griefers.  Abuse report them.  That's all anyone can do and, if the AR is legitamate (meaning the report of for a real ToS violation and not something frivalous), LL will respond.  Griefers are banned for serious attacks.....taking a sim down is serious.  Report it and LL will deal with it.  I think you are wanting the "servers" to do all that for you........well, the servers are just machines and cannot do a thing about griefers.  Software could be put in place but then how many people would be banned because they made a mistake and the software thought it was an attack (say you forgot to delete the resizer script for you 300 prim flexible hair and it went crazy.......a sim gets severely lagged or it crashes).  I don't think you would like that much........and neither would I or anyone else.  Just use the tool you have.......AR.

[Holger Gilruth]

They have not done it after several years and i dont think they will do anytime again something for us

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Holger Gilruth wrote:

They have not done it after several years and i dont think they will do anytime again something for us

---

I guess you're suggesting LL hasn't upgraded their servers for years? That's simply not true.

Forgive me if I am off by a year, but I think when I joined SL in 2006, LL was updating from class 3 to 4. In 2009 we had class 5 servers. The class 7 servers aren't that old, LL started using them in 2011.

Anyway, as Peggy says, the server hardware isn't the problem to begin with. Limiting script use per avatar was a big issue in 2010 I believe, it felt like the entire community got upset. LL didn't follow through, if they had done so griefers would stand less of a chance. Most lag probably isn't even script related, but caused by bandwidth and overuse of geometry (too many worn objects) and textures (1024x1024 textures on small objects). That's the price we pay for all the freedom we get, it won't change.

[Cincia Singh]

And according to Tyche's grid survey the first Class 8 servers went live on the main grid in July.

[Marigold Devin]

Linden Lab are constantly upgrading and tweaking.  Things have certainly improved a lot since I became a resident in 2007, and if I were to complain about anything, it would be the fact that Linden Lab have had their fingers in far too many pies since the beginning of this year.  Bringing in Mesh and Pathfinder, working on improving those sim crossings (and they are vastly improved - I was, only this past week, travelling in a truck that was heavily-scripted, containing three seated avatars, all with scripts on, riding along the highways of the Linden mainland, and as we crossed over sim borders, not one of us became unseated, not once did the truck appear to go under the ground, or up into the air, not one of us became "ghosted").

Why must people always be so quick to complain and put something down, and not focus on the positives? 

The graphics are constantly improving. 

Yes, there is one area that does not improve, and that is the situation with the griefers who have the ability to crash regions, but from each problem, comes a solution, and some sort of improvement.  Linden Lab do not publish all that they accomplish, but for sure there is a lot going on behind the scenes that you could not even dream to know about.

For the record, I rarely have been in a sim that suffers from sim crashers.  These places - such as welcome areas, infohubs, sandboxes - are notorious for this, and so I keep away.  While people feed the griefers, they will always find a way of outwitting the system.  So why do people keep feeding the griefers?  That is the question I would like to know the answer to?  And this is up to all of us, as residents of Second Life, to do our bit, to report the crashers and griefers, use the tools we have available, and then to walk away from the situation, and let Linden Lab do their jobs with the tools they have available.

Regarding security, I have had no issues with Linden Lab and security, whereas with my own bank in real life I have.  Linden Lab may be God-like, but they are not God, and they are as vulnerable as anyone else, and again, I believe, they have as much security in place as they need to have, and are working on this all the time.

[Marigold Devin]

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Holger Gilruth wrote:

They have not done it after several years and i dont think they will do anytime again something for us

---

 

The comment I would like to make to you is not publishable on a public forum, and yet I have no wish to make private conversation with you either.

[Nalates Urriah]

People have posted enough to show you that you have no clue what you are talking about. If that is not enough, try reading this: SL Server Related and SL Script Related and Second Life Viewer 2 & 3.

The Lindens are consolidating 3 data centers into 2. They are updating all the servers to new hardware. They have been working since the first of the year to improve stability and performance. Lots of spaghetti code is being refactored. Region crossing code is in the process of being converted to a multi-threaded process. Avatar rendering is in the process of being changed. The entire HTTP connection and communication software is being upgraded...

Like I said, you are clueless. 

Since you ask to 'Please upgrade the servers' it appears you think you are talking to the Lindens. This is a forum for users. There are places where the Lindens follow threads, but I think the Lindens envolved in operations and programming ignore most of the forum. Support people have no time for the forum. I suspect the forum moderators only read threads where they receive complaints. If you educate yourself you'll find there are ways to talk to the Lindens. You may even figure out how to get them to listen. I will advise you that massive displays of ignorance is not going to improve your influence with the Lindens.

[Perrie Juran]

I'm wondering who's Alt this is?

The content sounds like one particular complainer but the language reads like another one.

Maybe I am wrong for thinking that.  But it sure looks that way.

[Marigold Devin]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I'm wondering who's Alt this is?

The content sounds like one particular complainer but the language reads like another one.

Maybe I am wrong for thinking that.  But it sure looks that way.

---

The vibe is the same, but the typing is more "relaxed" - which a lot of people do when they are trying to fake around on an alt account.  I don't think you're wrong.

[Ayesha Askham]

@Perrie and Marigold

I see your drift, but in this case I suspect it is a genuinely clueless individual whose first language is not English.  It seems that this individual equates lots of scripts with griefers.

Were that so I'd have been griefing SL for 4 years now and no, they aren't the abominable resize scripts...I CAN edit!

Despite the numbers of reasonably savvy residents there is a significant number of residents, that, in my view are a wonder in that they manage to even log on!

I cannot conceive of how these individuals view SL.:smileytongue:

[Marigold Devin]

I think you're being extremely sweet to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, and think their first language is not English. (Although I still believe they are just writing in lazy English - foreign speakers often make a better effort and even if their words are the wrong way round, their spelling/typing is not so bad).

The person whose alt I think this is equates people with opinions as being griefers, people who use scripts as griefers, anyone who does things differently to them as griefers. They probably view RL in a very skewed way too. :matte-motes-not-entertained:

As someone who did not consider myself to be at all computer savvy, it has amazed me how many residents of Second Life have really great computers, and yet do not understand the basics, such as updating drivers, disk cleanup/defragment.  As you say, it is a wonder that they manage to even log on. (As long as they're not working on a computer in my bank, though, I can live with that :matte-motes-wink:)

 

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"...

(As long as they're not working on a computer in my bank, though, I can live with that **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/html/assets/emoticons/mattemotes/wink.png" border="0" alt=":matte-motes-wink:" title="" />)"

-----------------------------------------

And to add to that, as long as they don't come here accusing anyone who tries to point out their ignorance (note that ignorance is not the same as stupid) as being an LL alt or a$$ kisser.........I've been accused of that so many times I wish I had a L$ for each time (I'd be able to cancel my premium account and rent an entire full sim for years on the lindens I would have in my account). 

That is what drives me crazy (and leads to some of my "outbursts" here ).  If you don't know what you are talking about then shut up.  If you want to know something then ask.......but don't throw out accusaations because you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear.  I may not be 100% correct in all my answers but I'm not intentionally misleading you either.  I, for whatever reason, have almost no problems in SL........and the problems I do have always lead back to something in my system or my network (and because of that I can usually fix the problem).  But, then again, I do keep an open mind about possible causes....even the most basic that I might overlook (or be ignorant of).

BTW, I don't know who this person is......but the tone can be one of many constant complainers here. 

[Marigold Devin]

Now I am sandwiched between my two favourite straight-talking people in SL. :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

I laugh hard when I get accused of being a Linden alt and a suckup. It's rather fun to think that people might perceive us in that way, and actually seem to resent us for it.  I admit I like to be Oskar Linden's footstool occasionally, and the Lindens certainly aren't 'the enemy' like some people seem to treat them as, but I think being on the payroll it wouldn't be such fun - at least you and I and all the other helpers/contributors/advisors/etc can walk away at any time without giving notice, should we be so inclined.

Keep on with your 'outbursts', Peggy. You tell it as it is, and admit when you're wrong (which is rarely).  You are not responsible for how people choose to take your words. I bite my tongue a lot (which is why it resembles a doily), and wish sometimes that I would say more of what is on my mind, although on the Answers section, I have learnt not to make it like the General Discussion area.

[Paul Hexem]

While SL really could go for more power in their servers, this thread is just... pointless.

[BendableJade]

how is this thread pointless in face what im trying to say is the SL Servers needs to be more sercuity agains these kind of things and stuff

[Innula Zenovka]

Either you mean LL should improve security against exploits that crash sims or you mean that they should upgrade the servers.

If you mean they should be improving security, they are, all the time.  If you bother to read the release notes for the new server releases, you'll very frequently see that "security fixes" have been applied.  That's what it means.   As greifers discover exploits, LL investigate them and fix the vulnerability that allows the exploit to be accomplished (because if they knew about it before-hand, they'd have fixed it earlier).

If you mean you think the servers should be upgraded, well, they are being for all sorts of reasons, but it's not really to do with griefing.

Either way, I think the thread's pointless, I'm sorry to say.

[Paul Hexem]

Actually I meant it's pointless because LL is inept.

 

But Innula is right too.

[phaedra Exonar]

To say LL isn't doing any thing about servers is silly.

"This year, Linden Lab is making the single largest capital investment in new server hardware upgrades in the history of the company. This new hardware will give residents better performance and more reliability."

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/Project-Shining-to-Improve-Avatar-and-Object-Streaming-Speeds/ba-p/1583465

If your getting crashed just by being around other people with lots of normal (non grieffing) attachments and huds with scripts then it might be time to upgrade your computer, or turn down your settings, or avoid large crowdes, I had to do that when my graphics card died, and it took me several months to save up for a new computer.

Even with a new computer I still crash several times a day, all due to having really unreliable internet service, so far they have replaced my modem 4 times.

The only time I've ever been crashed by a grieffer is in a non premium public sand box, in this case it actually crashed my graphic drivers.  It would be easy to say just avoid this by not going to non premium public sand boxes, but I thinks that it's unfair to say that, because many new residents have few other options, and the public sand boxes are easy for them to find. 

I think your rant about LL needing to upgrade their servers is uninformed, but being concerned about griefers crashing people is valid.  One thing that disturbs me is that LL knows about and allows the sale of tools on the market place that can crash others peoples viewers, their explanation was that these tools can all so be used to get rid of griefers and there for are useful.

I won't pretend to have any idea how network or servers security works or say how it or the policy around it should be. But I do think LL should make more of a priority around providing new residents with a less hostel environment if they hope to have more resident stay past their first log in.

 

 

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

What is it about some people that it seems like at every corner, every time they log in to Second Life, They see Griefers and Griefer attacks every where they go?  What is that they are doing with their SL?

I am an avid SL explorer.  Some days I may hit as many as a dozen different SIMs.  I've been doing this for over five years.  I go to Sandboxes.  I go to welcome Hubs.  I have been and am all over the Grid.  And except for a few incidents where someone has wanted to play push and orbit with me, I have never witnessed attacks on the level that some of the OP's come in here claiming.

I am not saying griefing doesn't happen.  I know full well that it does.  But if this is the sum total of your SL Experience, maybe you need to rethink where you are going and what you are doing.  Einstein defined Insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get different results.

In other words, maybe what some of these OP's need to do is get out and get a Second Life and quit wallowing in the muck.  There is so much to do and enjoy in Second Life.  Go have fun!  It's out there waiting for you to enjoy.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"What is it about some people that it seems like at every corner, every time they log in to Second Life, They see Griefers and Griefer attacks every where they go?  What is that they are doing with their SL?

I am an avid SL explorer.  Some days I may hit as many as a dozen different SIMs.  I've been doing this for over five years.  I go to Sandboxes.  I go to welcome Hubs.  I have been and am all over the Grid.  And except for a few incidents where someone has wanted to play push and orbit with me, I have never witnessed attacks on the level that some of the OP's come in here claiming.

I am not saying griefing doesn't happen.  I know full well that it does.  But if this is the sum total of your SL Experience, maybe you need to rethink where you are going and what you are doing.  Einstein defined Insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get different results.

In other words, maybe what some of these OP's need to do is get out and get a Second Life and quit wallowing in the muck.  There is so much to do and enjoy in Second Life.  Go have fun!  It's out there waiting for you to enjoy."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been in SL for a bit longer than Perrie and I agree 100% with his statement.  I've been orbed, I've been at a club and had the sim crashed by griefers, I've seen the prim **bleep** cubes and monkeys falling from the sky, I've see the fabled "grey goo" creep across sim after sim until the entire grid was brought down........but each one of those griefing incidences were so rare  back in the days of early SL.  For more than 3 or 4 years I haven't seen any of that (aside from getting orbed about 2 or 3 times).  Griefing happens......it will always happen as long as SL allows more than one account for every user and allows free accounts (which means it will happen forever).  Saying that the servers need more security is showing a great deal of ignorance about servers and what servers do...........the servers don't provide security.  It's the software that does that and, LL is constantly upgrading the software (and, periodically, upgrade the servers too).  There is a reason that griefers no longer take the grid down....it's that software upgrading that makes that not a problem anymore (that is security, by the way).  Take Perrie's advice.....find better places to visit in SL.

Though, I will different a bit with Perrie.  I really think it's not that the posters of threads like this are visiting all those "bad" places.  I think it's that they are using weaker computers (or even not so weak computers) and don't have a clue about what  crash is.  They have problems because of their computer or the way their computer is set up and it "crashes".  Just what can LL do about that?  It's not LL's problem, LL has no access to the users computer...what's to fix for LL?  It's sort of funny how the same people have the same problems all the time and they never seem to be able to get it resolved.......why is that?  I think it's because they don't have a clue about what's causing it and refuse to look at their system or network.  It's easier to rant about LL needing to fix it.........or upgrade the servers.    It's ignorance and it's totally fixable......it just takes a little effort and an honest look at what you know about your computer and how it works.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

"

What is it about some people that it seems like at every corner, every time they log in to Second Life, They see Griefers and Griefer attacks every where they go?  What is that they are doing with their SL?

I am an avid SL explorer.  Some days I may hit as many as a dozen different SIMs.  I've been doing this for over five years.  I go to Sandboxes.  I go to welcome Hubs.  I have been and am all over the Grid.  And except for a few incidents where someone has wanted to play push and orbit with me, I have never witnessed attacks on the level that some of the OP's come in here claiming.

I am not saying griefing doesn't happen.  I know full well that it does.  But if this is the sum total of your SL Experience, maybe you need to rethink where you are going and what you are doing.  Einstein defined Insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to get different results.

In other words, maybe what some of these OP's need to do is get out and get a Second Life and quit wallowing in the muck.  There is so much to do and enjoy in Second Life.  Go have fun!  It's out there waiting for you to enjoy."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been in SL for a bit longer than Perrie and I agree 100% with his statement.  I've been orbed, I've been at a club and had the sim crashed by griefers, I've seen the prim **bleep** cubes and monkeys falling from the sky, I've see the fabled "grey goo" creep across sim after sim until the entire grid was brought down........but each one of those griefing incidences were so rare  back in the days of early SL.  For more than 3 or 4 years I haven't seen any of that (aside from getting orbed about 2 or 3 times).  Griefing happens......it will always happen as long as SL allows more than one account for every user and allows free accounts (which means it will happen forever).  Saying that the servers need more security is showing a great deal of ignorance about servers and what servers do...........the servers don't provide security.  It's the software that does that and, LL is constantly upgrading the software (and, periodically, upgrade the servers too).  There is a reason that griefers no longer take the grid down....it's that software upgrading that makes that not a problem anymore (that is security, by the way).  Take Perrie's advice.....find better places to visit in SL.

Though, I will different a bit with Perrie.  I really think it's not that the posters of threads like this are visiting all those "bad" places.  I think it's that they are using weaker computers (or even not so weak computers) and don't have a clue about what  crash is.  They have problems because of their computer or the way their computer is set up and it "crashes".  Just what can LL do about that?  It's not LL's problem, LL has no access to the users computer...what's to fix for LL?  It's sort of funny how the same people have the same problems all the time and they never seem to be able to get it resolved.......why is that?  I think it's because they don't have a clue about what's causing it and refuse to look at their system or network.  It's easier to rant about LL needing to fix it.........or upgrade the servers. 

  It's ignorance and it's totally fixable......it just takes a little effort and an honest look at what you know about your computer and how it works.

---

You are probably very right about it being a user/client side problem many (if not most) of the times.