Perrie Juran Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I wasn't even sure which would be the correct Sub-Fora to put this in so here it is.Isn't it time that we be able to upload a sound file longer than 10 seconds?I wanted a particular sound on my parcel. 30 seconds long.How much difference can there be between having one 30 second sound file or having to use scripts to loop three 10 second sound files?I know that there can be a lot of different opinions on how long we should be allowed to make the files, but seriously, 10 seconds is just too short!Extend the length a sound file can behttps://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24799 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: I think they just fixed it so you could hear a sound the first time it played. Instead of having to play it once to load it and then play it again to hear it. I do kinda like the idea of charging L$1.00 per second of sound. (How will they determine the Land Impact though?) <0ff Topic> Now there is an idea to encourage people to optimize their textures. The larger the file, the more it should cost to upload! </Off Topic> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I recall reading long ago that the ten second limit is there to discourage copyright violation. I don't know if the length was negotiated with RIAA or the like to avoid scrutiny. Preview times at places like Amazon and iTunes have been negotiated up over the years (iTunes is at 90 seconds now, from the original 30 seconds), so there might be wiggle room. That's providing LL has an extra body available for such negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monti Messmer Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 As far i remember even for a 10 seconds preview you need the "full license", at least in my country. I guess, some of the regulations for upload files to SL are still from the early days and no one bothered to update .... Monti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Madelaine McMasters wrote: I recall reading long ago that the ten second limit is there to discourage copyright violation. I don't know if the length was negotiated with RIAA or the like to avoid scrutiny. Preview times at places like Amazon and iTunes have been negotiated up over the years (iTunes is at 90 seconds now, from the original 30 seconds), so there might be wiggle room. That's providing LL has an extra body available for such negotiations. It is possible in the aftermath of the Napster debacle that LL was concerned about getting sued. But briefly summarizing, the reason the original Napster was shut down was because based on the evidence the Court found that their primary purpose was to enable copyright infringement. (Yes, I know there is more to this and it's a broad generalization). However, Linden Lab enjoys safe harbor protection under the DCMA. The RIAA and such would have to prove that the purpose of the longer sound file was to enable infringement. But by comparison, by enabling Mesh, Linden Lab made it very easy for people to copy mesh builds from other services (i.e., steal them) and import them into Second Life. They don't appear to be too concerned about getting sued for enabling this. And based on comments I am reading in the Forums, especially the Merchant Fora, it's going on a lot. Honestly, I think the original limit had more to do with available resources (computing power, bandwidth, etc.) than copyright concerns. I do remember Torley making a comment several months ago that he couldn't understand why in today's computing environment it was still only ten seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Monti Messmer wrote: As far i remember even for a 10 seconds preview you need the "full license", at least in my country. I guess, some of the regulations for upload files to SL are still from the early days and no one bothered to update .... Monti Don't know where you live but in the U.S., for educational or review purposes, 30 seconds is the accepted allowed length. The reviewers don't need to get permission from the Studios as long as they don't exceed this length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monti Messmer Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Germany, and even for a preview you need to pay to the GEMA - the reason we cannot view alot videos on YouTube even Machinima when there is a slight possibility it´s a licensed track. You can play each song only once in 2 or 4 hours and only such often a day ... have to mix local songs and not only play top 10 all time. For short lots of rules that only suck ! Monti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinfulPrince Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Monti Messmer wrote: Germany, and even for a preview you need to pay to the GEMA - the reason we cannot view alot videos on YouTube even Machinima when there is a slight possibility it´s a licensed track. You can play each song only once in 2 or 4 hours and only such often a day ... have to mix local songs and not only play top 10 all time. For short lots of rules that only suck ! Monti Wow. That does suck. But maybe it shows all of us different things. For those who don't have that situation , to appreciate what they do have. For those in that situation maybe to inspire change by being able to compare. Always beneficial to know how things are outside your own backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: Madelaine McMasters wrote: I recall reading long ago that the ten second limit is there to discourage copyright violation. I don't know if the length was negotiated with RIAA or the like to avoid scrutiny. Preview times at places like Amazon and iTunes have been negotiated up over the years (iTunes is at 90 seconds now, from the original 30 seconds), so there might be wiggle room. That's providing LL has an extra body available for such negotiations. It is possible in the aftermath of the Napster debacle that LL was concerned about getting sued. But briefly summarizing, the reason the original Napster was shut down was because based on the evidence the Court found that their primary purpose was to enable copyright infringement. (Yes, I know there is more to this and it's a broad generalization). However, Linden Lab enjoys safe harbor protection under the DCMA. The RIAA and such would have to prove that the purpose of the longer sound file was to enable infringement. But by comparison, by enabling Mesh, Linden Lab made it very easy for people to copy mesh builds from other services (i.e., steal them) and import them into Second Life. They don't appear to be too concerned about getting sued for enabling this. And based on comments I am reading in the Forums, especially the Merchant Fora, it's going on a lot. Honestly, I think the original limit had more to do with available resources (computing power, bandwidth, etc.) than copyright concerns. I do remember Torley making a comment several months ago that he couldn't understand why in today's computing environment it was still only ten seconds. Ten seconds of 44.1KHz WAV audio consumes 882Kbytes, about the size of a 1024x1024 texture. That would be an issue if longer recordings were allowed, although open source encoders were widely available at the time of SL's design (Ogg Vorbis, etc), so they could have encoded down to a tenth of that easily enough if they desired. There are countless DJs in Second Life, playing music for hire via licensed streaming services (and countless violators streaming from their personal collections). Had LL allowed uploading of audio clips long enough to allow DJ sessions directly from SL servers, and the corresponding trading of sound files , I think the RIAA would have peered over their glasses. Mesh has far more strategic value to LL than sound clips, and the gaming industry doesn't speak with the might of the music industry. So it's not suprising to me that LL can play faster and looser with mesh than audio. LL's early decisions were made during a time when they appeared to be operating proactively (and perhaps biting off more than they could chew). I believe they are now operating reactively, and neither bite nor chew. It's interesting that Torley doesn't understand why the product he sells has such limitations. I could understand that this is all a mystery to us. It should not be a mystery to LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Remember we are only talking mono sound files here as well :smileysad: so everything Maddy says x 2. I wish there were a Premium Elite membership version where you could run a stand alone sim on your own PC with such luxuries as 7.1 surround for your own entertainment & development purposes. Eg: Export avatar to software for anims, easy importing of mesh clothes & stuff for test fitting, machinima making and so much more. Whuups sorry that is intended as a general reply Maddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: Honestly, I think the original limit had more to do with available resources (computing power, bandwidth, etc.) than copyright concerns. that sounds about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiselleErin Teardrop Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Land impact is one thing but they would have to have a standard called "annoying impact". Things with high scoring annoying impact would be crap like that gesture that plays the song "gummy bear". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Convair Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I was thinking of the effects of larger sound files. Whats the advantage? Whats the difference between 10 and 30 seconds? It's easier to play a music file? No you still need a script to link the pieces. Playing 30 sec chunks? Thats easier then. But I'm not allowed to do that anyways in case of music. No 10s no 30s. I'm allowed to listen though - what I don't want in most cases. So I say: I don't care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiselleErin Teardrop Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 They have a tool that prevents someone from turning off their RL computer speakers? I know what you mean though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmeishche Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Mute all SL sound for a short while, until you're away from them or they leave. I do it all the time.. it's maybe not the idea situation ("ideally" they would be polite) but they can't get past "no volume" on your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Ten seconds of 44.1KHz WAV audio consumes 882Kbytes, about the size of a 1024x1024 texture. I understand that data storage and transfer is always an issue they need to be concerned with and the cumulative effect of all the data being transferred. I was working on a sound effect for a friends art exhibit. To do the effect is going to take eight separate sound files looped with a script. MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote: Land impact is one thing but they would have to have a standard called "annoying impact". Things with high scoring annoying impact would be crap like that gesture that plays the song "gummy bear". The balance between annoyance factor and convenience factor will always be an issue no matter where we go or what we do. As to what should be the maximum allowable length, I'm not sure, but I'd like to see it longer than 10 seconds. I'm sure most of you ladies like your men to last longer than that although sometimes I know you'd like to get it over with short and quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazarin Mondrian Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'd like to see SoundFonts at the very least [or something similar] adopted. That way a content creator could upload keymapped wavesamples that could be triggered, looped and edited [envelope, filter, etc.]. That would open the door for more realistic in-world musical instruments as well in-world musical collaboration, composition and recording. SoundFonts are an old tried-and-tested technology created by Creative Labs so maybe the licensing wouldn't be too exorbitant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote: They have a tool that prevents someone from turning off their RL computer speakers? I know what you mean though. Now and then there are some people I want to hear and some griefer spewing some rant that I can't turn down. Turning off the speakers is not ideal. ^^ that i would like more fine control over blocking on a per avatar basis like block: chat | im | gestures | sounds | voice | particles | lights | delivery | render | all like i be quite happy to public chat someone while at same time have them gesture or attached lights blocked. while at same time allow others in my view to do that same i be quite happy to chat | voice someone but i not want to get IMs off them bc of what they sometimes say in IM also sometimes i wants to finetune delivery: like block receive notecards or LMs but get other stuff like things i buy stuff like that + is heaps of dif combinations for dif situations which could be dealt with ourselfs if we had more fine blocking controls. maybe would help lower the level of drama/annoyance/rage and reduce the desire/need to AR people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 With proper industry-grade compression you could have tracks a minute long a fraction the size of these 10 sec wav files. The problem stems from Linden insistence to use only outdated & lag-heavy formats (for everything not just sounds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amie Kaestner Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Once some random person gave me a music disc that played a whole song. It must've been made of several different sound files scripted to play in a sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilbert Dilweg Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Amie Kaestner wrote: Once some random person gave me a music disc that played a whole song. It must've been made of several different sound files scripted to play in a sequence. I have done that before with just a gesture and no script. You can load each 10 second sound consecutive and have 0 second wait between sounds and play.. Not the whole song. but a very long portion of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 There's actually a LOT of issues with sounds I'd love to see addressed. Did you know that if there are too many sound emitting objects around you, it will crash your viewer? SL desperately needs to join the 21st century and implement surround sound support. This technology existed before SL, yet ten years later and SL still lacks what is now commonplace. Being able to stream audio/media through an in-world object would be brillaint. As in, you could stream the parcel music through an in-world radio, so the music is louder the closer you are to that radio. these are just a handful of examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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