So some people consider Griefing to be a form of RP?

[Ceka Cianci]

it's all in their head all right..the power trip i mean..because at the end of the day when they shut off the computer..if they ever do..they will still be that same sad person craving attention so bad that they had to force it on others..because they didn't have the family jewels to go out and get it the real hard way..

real men do it the hard way.. these other guys just stink up desk chairs freaking out when the power goes out crushing their little world..

so ya in that sense..it's role play..

[Pussycat Catnap]

If you're on a sim with the theme of X, and rated and set up for X - then go ahead and do X all you want - more power to you.

But if you come to a sim not set up for and not purposed for X - then expect to be banned when you start forcing others to participate in X.

- Where X is almost any sort of thing that requires multiple people, 'alters the shared experience' for multiple people, or impacts on sexual or violent themes in ways regulated by the TOS.

 

 

[161488303349]

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Hm so generally you are saying that  this griefer and their friends are playing to sit back on the couch drink coke, eat lots of potato chips, and possibly a lot of $5 foot logs get fatter and laugh at me by doing things to get on my nerves and laugh at my response?

Yes I am a very destructive kitten when I

rage

  I would love nothing more but to have the option for a nuclear bomb similar to that of Modern Warfare 3, I would totally use it take out all them griefers, hopefully the innocent would get in their bomb shelters before it happend, but once the sims turn red I would totally laugh at it knowing I got that one or two griefers they were dead, then I would take over all the land for myself claim it in the name of the Furious Kitten :3.

Is there not a nuclear bomb option for when all else fails );?

I would so love to meet these trolls on Xbox Live I would send them over to FUOS.

---

pretty much like i said you playing it as a shooter. all what you said confirms this

when say yards then means like territory. patch. turf. hood

the people you playing with/against dont want your turf you see. they just want to make scores

is really easy to defend your turf against this. if the opponents cant score on your turf then they dont bother coming back bc for them is only about the score

whereas in SL, like any other patch, hood, turf, is only ever about the territory. SL gameplayers, winning ones anyways, dont give a chit about any scores. the game as far as they concerned is only ever about the turf. making yards you see

[Perrie Juran]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I give up............I have a niece who is 6 years old and I can talk to her in a somewhat intelligent manner and she comprehends most of what I'm saying.  But, you?  I'm not sure it's sinking in.

Like I said in my previous post.......have fun with this game you insist on playing. 

---

I just so totally agree with you here.

Is there a way to mute someone in the Forum?  I have never done that because it goes against my core beliefs but I am really considering it here.

[Melita Magic]

Is griefing roleplay?

I recently read a quote (wish I could remember who said it) about hunting not being a sport because "in a sport both parties consent and are aware of the rules."

Griefing is the same thing.

Roleplay requires the consent of those involved, and some awareness of what is going on (if not rules per se.) 

Griefing has no rules, or is against all rules, and depends only upon the imagined or anticpated stress of the person it is aimed at.

So, no, they are not the same thing, although I wonder if the first post is as much as question as a discussion starter.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I wouldn't consider hunting a sport (not according to the strictest of definitions).  But, then, niether is role playing.  Hunting could be a game, even if one party is not playing (the hunted)..........and so could role playing be considered a "game" for the same reasons.  When the hunted figures out that they are being hunted they can change the "game" by ceasing to be hunted (they can hide, move to different locations, or take actions to level the "playing field").  In SL it's difficult to level the playing field without the hunted, violating the rules with the AR system being the only legal action to take.......and with the way SL is set up (nearly unlimited free and anonymous accounts available for the hunter utilize for their side of the game) the AR system has limited success for the determined griefer.  Even with that limited success, the AR should be used in all cases.....if for no other reason, than to make life just a little bit more difficult for the griefer.  That leaves hiding or moving to a different location.  An alt can be effective for hiding (though it is inconvenient and, in my opinion, cedes defeat........and I don't like loosing ).  But moving to a different location (groups, sims, or whatever) is a good option.  There is nearly unlimited role playing groups and sims in SL.  If one is causing you problems (such as Gothgirl's) why would you stick around that group?  The only reason I think of is that Gothgirl likes playing the game........so in that respect, the griefing is a sport.  The griefer enjoys griefing and Gothgirl enjoys attention of being griefed (mutual satisfaction by all parties involved in the game).

My only problem with this game is that it's not something I like yet so many threads are started by people who complain about the problem, know the solution to the problem, but insist that everyone take up the "good fight" against the evil griefers.  When people like me refuse to feel sorry for them they start making up excuses for their behavior to enlist support.  Sometimes it's fun to read the petty BS that the person can come up with.  But, in this case, the problem has been going on for a year or more and the comedy of the whole situation is gone.  Gothgirl likes this game as much as the griefers..........why else would she continue to play it for so long?

[Melita Magic]

Hmm, I did not mean that roleplay is griefing, just the opposite. Roleplay could be considered a game, I suppose; there are many types of games. And many definitions for the notion of 'a game.'

My point, though, was something along the lines that griefing and hunting do not have the consent of their victims. 

Since the OP wanted to compare griefing and roleplay, I also mentioned that roleplay does require the consent of those involved, to work. Or at least, to work in the fullest extent. But, on the other hand, one could go around 'roleplaying' in one's avatar, in a comedic fashion, whether or not anyone responded. And that would not be griefing. (Maybe it would be along the lines of a pesky 'mime' in a real life crowded place, being someone else, and reacting to whatever comes; but not really griefing. And now I guess that moves into 'is all of Second Life a roleplay' but I don't think it necessarily is.)

But griefing is by nature intended to cause distress, and once consent is given, is no longer griefing.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"...

But griefing is by nature intended to cause distress, and once consent is given, is no longer griefing."

------------------------------------------------------------

Bingo!!!

After a year it's pretty obvious the OP has given consent and is playing just as much as the griefer is playing.  Role playing in the normal definition would not include griefing as part of the game.........but, once consent is given, it's just part of the role playing game (so, in Gothgirl's case, yes griefing is a form of role playing).  She enjoys being the victim as much as the griefer enjoys victimizing her.  She can stop it at anytime she chooses but she chooses not to stop it.  She's role playing plain and simple.

[GothGirl Demonia]

To answer some questions.

1. I do not stick around the people who are doing this, keep in mind this drama occur over a year ago, I was banend from the region, and kicked from the group, the group is not open enrollent. The situation is this user is a Griefer, they come from one of those griefer sites, and they use Alternate Accounts to grief their own RP sims to begin with and their friends and accused me of it the GM in this MMORPG believed her.

Simply put even after that was way in the past this griefer has been attacking others I know with NoteCards from Alternate accounts, and even CopyBot some creators and spam sandboxes handing it out & some groups, then accused me of doing it, and this isn't even talking about the rumors they have been spreading around the last rumor was just this month and its been going around a bit because of this griefer, and the GM who believes it.

In a matter of speaking I have sent IM's to some of these griefers in the Sandbox doing this, and they come out and say they were just RolePlaying Griefing becuase they know everyone likes it. Talk to some of my friends who are not griefers they say they RP with the griefers back on their own private sims when they get griefed with huds and such to teach them. ** This is a bit all new to me.**

2. I did Abuse Report for all of this over the past year, the user including the one who has ripped off quite a few people and threatend to do it more based on information I was able to find outside SL is still playing SL today I don't understand why they could do so much grief and still be here, and that is simply the problem I am having.

Otherwise besides the grief this person keeps throwing at me I am pretty much having fun when I login to SL well sometimes with other RP groups, not a Major RP sim or anything like that but still good. To be honest I have been avoiding major RP sims because of this griefer, I am afraid they will follow me over to other sims and cause problems if they haven't already.

Most Drama that I have seen which involves RP has always been something that was Over and done with really fast, sometimes things went well, other times things didn't go so well someone got temp banned, or something like maybe a debate or arguement, but it was never anything where a griefer went on a huge power spree first geting a person kicked off of a entire group of sims, suckering up to GM's of the MMORPG, and then trying to get the user banned from hundreds of more sims or banned from SL that is how some of these griefers like to play they don't just stop there. I have muted the griefers before, but see they just make more accounts, and come back, or they use others as Pwn's in theire game of chess.

[161488303349]

 songs for you (:

 

[Carcus Core]

Griefing is not rping period.  Find me a rp definition that says griefing is a part of rp

 

Griefiers are low life scum who seek to ruin the enjoyment and environment of the RP community, and if i could meet some greifiers in rl Id give them some rl grief

 

And...gothgirl I know the sim your talking of and the GM your talking about, maybe your pissed cos they playing you at  your own game but playing it  better than you despite all your efforts

For the record ..private IMs are shared between admins and Gm's if a call is made against another player who is breaking the rules or going OOC abusively in your IM, admins need that as proof and its the ONLY time any private chat is shared, its for keeping the rules inforced and players in check, without it admins can do nothing and the sim would run into a big mess as no rules can be inforced with no proof of them being broken.

 

I would suggest you accept the outcome of the crap you got yourself into and move on, your fighting a losing battle by griefing, which by the way you seem to know alot about

 

Peace

 

[GothGirl Demonia]

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Carcus Core wrote:

Griefing is not rping period.  Find me a rp definition that says griefing is a part of rp

 

Griefiers are low life scum who seek to ruin the enjoyment and environment of the RP community, and if i could meet some greifiers in rl Id give them some rl grief

 

And...gothgirl I know the sim your talking of and the GM your talking about, maybe your pissed cos they playing you at  your own game but playing it  better than you despite all your efforts

For the record ..private IMs are shared between admins and Gm's if a call is made against another player who is breaking the rules or going OOC abusively in your IM, admins need that as proof and its the ONLY time any private chat is shared, its for keeping the rules inforced and players in check, without it admins can do nothing and the sim would run into a big mess as no rules can be inforced with no proof of them being broken.

 

I would suggest you accept the outcome of the crap you got yourself into and move on, your fighting a losing battle by griefing, which by the way you seem to know alot about

 

Peace



 

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Well to make note of a couple of things.

1. Sharing IM's reguardless of rules is a violation of the SL TOS/CS even if it is in the covenant, or listed on a website or blog. When this happend I was never aware of the Rules being there I can be blammed for not knowing them either they changed, or  I had just been too many other places and forgot about them.

In a sense of speaking Sharing logs of Role-Play, or harassment between Admins I would see okay, but not sharing private information, or anything unrelated to harassment, or RP. See this is what happend I trusted someone who I didn't know much they were part of my group and turned out in my eyes to be a griefer looking for Drama. If they really are not such a person then I would like them to show me their true colors without their im the big boss attitude and being a stuck up player.

See my talk with this person I believed to be private, I believed this person to be a respectful person because they were part of my group, I was wrong, and I wish to god that day I would have never IM them if I had not have none of this would have happend. * I also don't see why people have to bring their personal drama that doesn't involve a person into a community to ruin a persons life for example they own a club, have an arguement, or something totally unrelated, or even a talk one person is drunk and says something stupid to the other not meaning any harm but it gets taken the wrong way which is pretty much what happend to spark all this.* Something we could have just shake hands over and been over with the enxt day, but they decided to take it IC, make threats of bans, and you name it.* I still do not understand why the admin chooses to accuse me, and the other player who started all this is still there to my knowledge.

2. Fighting a loosing battle, I wouldn't say it is much of a loss.

I really don't care about the frigging ban that the admin placed on me because I didn't play there anyways, I just knew of friends that did and ask me to see them once in awhile and some of them paid to be there, but now I am denied access because of one little griefer who wanted it their way.

Am I griefing these RolePlayers?

Absolutely not, I have been accused many times of using Alts to grief them by this one person, and her Admin who is the Manager, but know this, I never griefed the sims if I had of done such LL would have banned my account way long ago, and people would have seen me do something.  I have nothing against that community I am against the admin who still refuses to speak to me, the people who have pointed fingers at me and thrown around these rumors like I am responsible for everything. I have my faults in it yes, I disclosed logs outside SL which is not offically a TOS violation after they thought it was funny to start their lies about me, and accuse me of such. In fact despiste the lies I tried to help this community to find out who was doing this, and I have a pretty good idea of exactly who it was and where it most likely connects back to, but see The admin refused to hear anything I had to say, it was just like this.  The Gavel hits, and I am immediately guilty of everything eventhough I admit to my part in this a few times, and tried to get them to let me know exactly what was going on before it got very ugly. * In fact the only thing this admin/GM did was tell me to prove my innocence, like how exactly am I suppoed to do that he said.* " He demanded names from me" I didn't know names of who was doing what because I wasn't behind it, I knew of a couple because they used a spammer from their sim on me and filled my email as well as some sandbox sims thats all, but these griefers are long banned from SL.*

If this manager wanted to ban me for No reason at all they had the right to do such, they did not have the right to break the TOS by spreading rumors and lies around SL like they did. They could have simply had told me, even this person who started this whole thing could have got together and asked me to leave the group nicely I would have done it, but they decide they wanted drama.

3. Like I said I really don't care, about the ban as I said, but I want my name clear of these lies, I don't want to be punished and accused of something I did not do.

I just want this Admin to see their mistakes it is that simple, They have no proof of if I griefed them, and they have no proof I didn't so how can they go around spreading these rumors about me when they can't back them up. I was more than willing to peacefully sit down with this admin tell them about anything they needed to know, and help them with the griefer who was attacking, but instead I got rumors, and personally I watched him lie to my face it was not funny either. The thing is this, I do not play alts in their community either, this is my only character that has actually played in their community.

I have been against this griefing for a long time in SL, I have seen many people harmed by it including friends I know from that community, I would not harm them, and most important I would not take out my revenge on an entire community or a group of over 1000+ people if I did such it would not look good on me. Personally while I can't give names here, I am sure you likely know who I am talking about, but I feel that public exposure of their lies, drama, and such is punishment enough.

If these admin's or GM's, and even if this person wants to talk to me or respond to me peacefully and stop immediately accusing me of the harm which I never did I would be more than happy to keep things quiet, but the moment they start ranting about me doing things I have not done then I have problems with it.

I am not here to RP Griefing as some might think of griefing as RP.

Just FYI the way I see it Role - Play can be assuming the role of anything even if it doesn't ivolve Text based combat. For example joining a Military, or army in SL is taking a role of something which you might not really be, even being a biker in SL from SL.

4. And if you think I am pissed off over a Ban, I have been banend from some other sims in SL most likely because of these rumors, but I have not griefed them, and I have not heard anything about me griefing them either, I did ask nicely why I was banned, and if they could contact me, thats about all, I have no reason to make a big issue unless they start to spread lies, then I will abuse report it and deal with exposing those lies.

Btw just FYI.

If you don't know why I am debating this issue so much it is because I continued to get griefed even after the ban, and eject from the group by people from there spreading those rumors/lies. I believe in fighting peacefully for right is right, and if you go to the website, and look under the Adminstration code of conduct you will see a part which says. Punishments are the result of evidence. & No one is above the rules. You will also see, always go into a situation with an open mind. This admin unless these do not apply to him clearly did not follow any of the rules, I tried my best to respect this admin, but I had it after the second and third times of rumors started by them. In fact as a player I believe what I did exposing it outside LL's jurisdiction was right to protect the real MMORPG gamers, and I believe I have done my best as a player even more than what a normal player would to try to get to the bottom of it.  As an admin I believe he did not do what he should have,  Maybe I am wrong its a matter of opinion, but I would just like for them to see the mistakes they have made, and shake hands with the issue, there is no need for the grief, and drama let alone the accusations from them. I want to see this person be a Good and respectful GM, and I have no Idea how or why he choose to pick me as being a bad person over one little incident, and because of who I am. As the rule says on their site too, no one is perfect, I have tried to see that, and I do see it, but when constant grief continues against me with those rumors, it makes the kitty angry. In simple terms of speaking, There is no need for WAR,  but sometimes there must be WAR, before there can be peace, and I find that really sad but it seems to be in human nature.

There is also no game I am playing, they are the ones who played the game/pressed my buttons. I only played it back as a player, not with griefing or anything like that.

Kitten says Peace too :3.

[Ceka Cianci]

so many walls of text ..i can't stand it anymore hehehe..

it's time to call in the big guns..

oh Chuckie poo!!

need a favor sweet'ums..

[GothGirl Demonia]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

so many walls of text ..i can't stand it anymore hehehe..

it's time to call in the big guns..

oh Chuckie poo!!

need a favor sweet'ums..

---

 

Pretty sweet all the ChuckNorris jokes in games lol reminds me of World OF Warcraft. Being a Mutant like that would be awesome in RL :3.

And Yup lots of walls of text :3 thats called Drama Jerry Jerry :3.

[Ansiri]

---

GothGirl Demonia wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

so many walls of text ..i can't stand it anymore hehehe..

it's time to call in the big guns..

oh Chuckie poo!!

need a favor sweet'ums..

---

 

Pretty sweet all the ChuckNorris jokes in games lol reminds me of World OF Warcraft. Being a Mutant like that would be awesome in RL :3.

And Yup lots of walls of text :3 thats called Drama Jerry Jerry :3.

---

We need a lot of Chucks and Clints to take care of all the griefers in sl and irl also.

I wish you luck GothGirl, i can imagine how you feel since i've been sort of griefed irl and the guy who's spreading rumors and lies about me is doing the same in the net too.

If you ever read about Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), i think some of those griefers go under that definition and they can be very talented manipulators. + the net is too nice playground for them.

( picture taken from http://www.motifake.com/141757 )

 

"1. Age Verification, Back in SL or fixing it so people have to provide an actual ID to Linden Lab to get access to simulators that require it, this would not be shown to anoyne and would stay on file with LL but it would sure the hell prevent abuse and so many griefer accounts."

That would be really good thing to have, so that everyone should give an actual ID when making an account.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

GothGirl Demonia wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

so many walls of text ..i can't stand it anymore hehehe..

it's time to call in the big guns..

oh Chuckie poo!!

need a favor sweet'ums..

---

 

Pretty sweet all the ChuckNorris jokes in games lol reminds me of World OF Warcraft. Being a Mutant like that would be awesome in RL :3.

And Yup lots of walls of text :3 thats called Drama Jerry Jerry :3.

---

i thought it was time to to call in the big guns .so i had to ask him if he had some spare time and could step away from WoW for a minute..

he said..i wait for no time..it waits for me..be right there..

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"...

"1. Age Verification, Back in SL or fixing it so people have to provide an actual ID to Linden Lab to get access to simulators that require it, this would not be shown to anoyne and would stay on file with LL but it would sure the hell prevent abuse and so many griefer accounts."

That would be really good thing to have, so that everyone should give an actual ID when making an account."

---------------------------------------------------------

Back in 2005 when I first joined SL, you did have to provide some identification plus pay, at least, a one time fee of $9.95 for a basic account (the one time fee was waived if you went Premium when you first started).  Everyone in SL up to June 6, 2006 had to provide identification and pay, at least, $9.95 to have an account......either premium or basic.  We still had griefers.  People lie and use stolen CC's or other fraudulant payment methods.  But, you're correct (in my opinion) that griefing would be a lot less of a problem with the griefers were forced to lie instead of recieving the welcoming arms of Linden Lab when the "anyone can join and we don't want to know who you are" took place.  Griefing exploded to what it is today.........and, at least, 90% of the blame can be placed squarely in LL's lap.

[Ceka Cianci]

my alt cost me 9.95 and she is from after i was born which i was born july 30, 2006..

and i was already premium..not sure if they were just still charging for alts or what but thats what my basic accoutn was back then tied to my premium account..

[Peggy Paperdoll]

In June of 2006 LL changed the registration for new sign-ups in a way that it was no longer a requirement to provide any sort of identification and they stopped the one time charge for creating a basic account (speciifically, that day was June 6, 2006......I remember it well).  What thatt did was open the grid to a lot of people who were hesitant about joining due the the $9.95 fee...........that was when SL "got on the map", so to speak.  I know I did some research back in October, when I joined.  I wanted to know who Linden Lab was and if I could trust them with real life identification and my credit card number......I've been a pretty paranoid person about personal ID and financial information for a very, very long time (way before SL).  I could not find any information saying anything bad about LL so I took the chance and joined.  First as a basic but after about a month I went premium.  Of course, I provided honest and truthful information because I knew that LL could track me if they wanted and I was "covering my ass".....if LL turned out to be some rip off then I had the "evidence" right there on my computer and on my ISP's logs (basically, I'm paranoid to some extent......but I'm savvy enough that I know where to curb that paranoia). 

I was genuinely amazed at the some of the griefers and their boldness about doing things that could get them in trouble......not only with LL but with RL authorities.  It's at that point that I "learned" that a thief or a crook doesn't care about authorities in the least........they will lie, steal, and ignore laws in order to do what they want to do.  But, that's the hardcore types..........they exist and they will always exist (everywhere.......not just SL).  When LL opened the "flood gates" in 2006, not only did we have to deal with those hardcore griefers, you had to deal with the more timid griefers.........but they are not so timid now.  They know LL does not know who they are and LL doesn't want to know who they are.  And the griefer population in SL exploded.  It was a problem when I joined.......it's a huge problem today.  And, for that, I point my finger squarely at LL.

[GothGirl Demonia]

---

Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

In June of 2006 LL changed the registration for new sign-ups in a way that it was no longer a requirement to provide any sort of identification and they stopped the one time charge for creating a basic account (speciifically, that day was June 6, 2006......I remember it well).  What thatt did was open the grid to a lot of people who were hesitant about joining due the the $9.95 fee...........that was when SL "got on the map", so to speak.  I know I did some research back in October, when I joined.  I wanted to know who Linden Lab was and if I could trust them with real life identification and my credit card number......I've been a pretty paranoid person about personal ID and financial information for a very, very long time (way before SL).  I could not find any information saying anything bad about LL so I took the chance and joined.  First as a basic but after about a month I went premium.  Of course, I provided honest and truthful information because I knew that LL could track me if they wanted and I was "covering my ass".....if LL turned out to be some rip off then I had the "evidence" right there on my computer and on my ISP's logs (basically, I'm paranoid to some extent......but I'm savvy enough that I know where to curb that paranoia). 

I was genuinely amazed at the some of the griefers and their boldness about doing things that could get them in trouble......not only with LL but with RL authorities.  It's at that point that I "learned" that a thief or a crook doesn't care about authorities in the least........they will lie, steal, and ignore laws in order to do what they want to do.  But, that's the hardcore types..........they exist and they will always exist (everywhere.......not just SL).  When LL opened the "flood gates" in 2006, not only did we have to deal with those hardcore griefers, you had to deal with the more timid griefers.........but they are not so timid now.  They know LL does not know who they are and LL doesn't want to know who they are.  And the griefer population in SL exploded.  It was a problem when I joined.......it's a huge problem today.  And, for that, I point my finger squarely at LL.

---

I agree with this post, I am not sure exactly when LL Changed the Credit Card, or Debit Card required because I didn't play SL back then, but I do remember years ago when I was under the age to even be in SL when they required it I remember seeing Second Life on an AD, I didn't even have a credit card I still don't back then they didn't have prepaid cards as popular as today like GreenDot, etc. I use debit now with my bank and lots of other prepaid sources however.

The problem, is grieferes, money laundry, and Laws can be broken depending where you live, however the LL servers from what I know are located in the U.S, I am not so much into knowing other countries Laws.

Anyways, problem with Second Life, is I agree that it is easier to join SL without giving out personal information, even your name not required to make an account anymore. However there is a cost to that, and that cost is that it will be abused by Griefers sadly, and I absolutely hate what I have to deal with myself with other griefers, but what I see happen to others with griefing, and it becomes down to the point where people fight it out and take matters into their own hands, I don't support or encourage griefing, but sometimes griefers get griefed and thats how war works in SL at times from some of what I see.

Most MMORPG, companies, such as Blizzard, NcSoft, Riot Games, Steam, etc. All these companies actually require Real Life  Name, Telephone, and basic information like where you live, Second Life doesn't require this anymore at all, all they get is an IP address, Computer MAC/HD serial which are easy to spoof on them all, and a email which anyone can get a dispoable email account.

With this said, I know that griefers can grief other games too, and believe me as a Gamer I have had to put up with griefers in other MMORPG's too outside of Second Life, so I know what it is like these days.

The problem is that Linden Lab really needs to go back to Require some type of information, and verification, possibly even Telephone verfication like google, I know ways around telephone verification myself for example, but not all griefers are very smart, or know much so not every griefer is going to know how to do it.

Requirement of ID Would not be required, however Land Owners, would have the right to restrict access to people who have not given ID to Linden Lab, its their land its their choice right? Just as they can ban anyone for no reason, why not add this feature. * This would prevent a lot of griefer and Alternate account abuse.*

Go to google and search for.

VPS Servers, or VPN's, on top of that look up proxies, these are all the avalable ways to spoof your IP address, griefers know it they use it, even on forums like Second Life, and other MMORPG forums as well it can be abused too because forums ban by IP address, and in the most can detect browser version, so I like to throw in TOR which also hides my information even better for example, griefers know this I know it.

Actual Abuse

1. In abuse situations like a for example a plot of Real Life terrorism, or Life threatening threats made towards a person in a MMORPG, if the FBI takes it seriously enough believe me no matter how many proxies you hide behind they can and will find you if it is serious enough, unless you are at a public WI-FI, even then they will log time stamps track back those cats, until they find you the Zippo Cat, and if they cant find you they will pull Traffic Camera's and security footage of the area.

2. Copyright Infringement, is the Second Biggest thing I deal with, I know exactly what Bots do like the CopyBot for one, Data is shared between the users computer eventhough they don't own the data its still cached on their PC. But not only that a person with the way the SL asset system works can spoof pretty much anything in Second Life, now lets assume that I was a griefer who ripped off someones store in SL. Well lets say I hide behind an alternate account, and did this using someone elses name to spoof assets on Skins for that matter or anything else. The creator can file a DMCA and I might get banned from Second Life for giving out all those items I did not have permission to do such with, but if they try to bring foruth a Lawsuit at least in the United States, lets assume the creator had the money to even do such, they would have to find me, and then from there they would have to prove that I actually did it, and in a Court, or LAW its innocent until proven guilty, given the fact that the data is all loaded into clients using UUID's, and I didn't actually download anything there would be no proof I have violated copyright, therefore LL could ban the account, but in a Court or Law I could easily Take the 5th, and not say anything, or I could prove in a court how many exploits the permission system really has, and even probabily get the exploits posted on television interviews, wouldn't put LL in a good light you see.

3. Griefers we all hate them.  I know about every griefer trick they have, The only thing I can't do is code scripts I can edit them, I can recoginize exploits, and hacks, or cheats, or bugs in a lot of games released today. But most important, I know how a griefers mind works, how they play their games, and the different types of griefing. With this said Technically I could be called a griefer myself, but that said its the experience I have learned over the years of Internet Gaming, we are talking about over 10 years, someone with no Real Life really and over 12 hours a day to learn things.

4. Money Laundering  The reason LL shut down gambling, because of the Law for that matter, however I am still sure gambling goes on in many ways in virtual games not limited to Second Life these days. I have no problem with gambling much, but there are Laws, and I also know that any type of gambling mostly in SL can be rigged, hacked, cheated, exploited, but even RL machines are vulnurable to hacks I am sure. I am generally the type of person who looks at exploits in anything I see SL & RL, and learn how these work.

This is not limited to gambling however, Scripts that if a person grants debit permissions can empty your entire SL account, which by the way usually Linden Lab wont do anything because you granted it permission, but imagine, if you were using a very popular Second Life Share vendor that splits profit, or vendors selling your products. You have to grant these debit permissions, but you can't view the script yourself so you don't know someone doesn't have a remot command to still millions of L$ from everyone using the system grid wide now do you? Not saying that this will ever happen, but the exploit is there, and can be abused.

Lets not even talk about Real Life Taxes  which people in SL get out of paying because they cash out the money I believe there is a Tax limit before it is reported but using friends, or multiple accounts to cash out, or Third Party Trading, and cashing out to their PayPals, Sometimes I think about calling the IRS and telling them about the potential vulnurabilities like this.

This is the reason why companies need to be a bit more strict as throw away griefer accounts and who is behind them. Believe me I understand even with such there will always be a griefer, but the numbers would likely go down compared to what they are right now.

The current way the registration works a person can create an account, get banned, come back 30 seconds later and grief again, Sometimes Linden Lab attempts to track items back to where they came from, sometimes LL Blacklists the griefer items, but even then that is why I for example buy everything I want to use FULL Permissions, and backup copies to my own Hard Disk drive so even if the script gets lost I have another copy of it no problem, and on top of that it can't be tracked back because it has a new creator each time.

Anyways as I was saying, griefing, and Trolls happen daily on more services that Second Life, they happen in other MMORPG's, but I find there to be for one a lot less drama, and Second the game companies which I happen to know actually take a lot of action way faster than Linden Lab does, plus they still require that RL information when you sign up. So I understand how dificult griefing can be for people, and in no way over the years since I became to really understand it I never support this type of conduct in games. Often these griefers target me as well, but since they can't get me  they use other people who don't spend their hours researching to do stupid things like spread accusations about me, or get me banned from sims and all that just to try to get me because really they have griefed me before on my own land, they failed just got banned from SL over and over they really couldn't use their little toy huds on me either, and believe me I monitor every packet coming and going from my PC, every little box or packet in SL, so even if someone uses a griefer attack that is supposed to be stealthed, chances are I will find who you are, and it will be gone pretty fast.

With this said I hope that people will understand how serious Requirement of RL Information can be at times, well maybe not to require Payment Information, but to give residents the option to better protect themselves by requirement of ID, and such. It would really help if LL would require at least basic information such as Name, Address, etc. If people really don't like this then they don't have to use SL as a service. I know I have already given LL my RL information, & Debit Card, but I have insurance incase of my account getting compromised with the CC company that will cancel the transaction, and I use a seperate account for SL aka I only deposit so much funds I don't keep a lot there anyways which I believe is a smart way to go just incase you never know.

If you really want to be paranoid then check this out, I believe this guy it makes sense what an evil world we live in and what some are doing, so many coverup's.

http://www.jesseventura.net/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LDgUGztmP0 I know that I will not be eating any fish after this, not that I eat them anyways, but for the people who do this is very bad. ( It is sad that some people want to remove his video's with false copyright, but once word is out its out.

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

In June of 2006 LL changed the registration for new sign-ups in a way that it was no longer a requirement to provide any sort of identification and they stopped the one time charge for creating a basic account (speciifically, that day was June 6, 2006......I remember it well).  What thatt did was open the grid to a lot of people who were hesitant about joining due the the $9.95 fee...........that was when SL "got on the map", so to speak.  I know I did some research back in October, when I joined.  I wanted to know who Linden Lab was and if I could trust them with real life identification and my credit card number......I've been a pretty paranoid person about personal ID and financial information for a very, very long time (way before SL).  I could not find any information saying anything bad about LL so I took the chance and joined.  First as a basic but after about a month I went premium.  Of course, I provided honest and truthful information because I knew that LL could track me if they wanted and I was "covering my ass".....if LL turned out to be some rip off then I had the "evidence" right there on my computer and on my ISP's logs (basically, I'm paranoid to some extent......but I'm savvy enough that I know where to curb that paranoia). 

I was genuinely amazed at the some of the griefers and their boldness about doing things that could get them in trouble......not only with LL but with RL authorities.  It's at that point that I "learned" that a thief or a crook doesn't care about authorities in the least........they will lie, steal, and ignore laws in order to do what they want to do.  But, that's the hardcore types..........they exist and they will always exist (everywhere.......not just SL).  When LL opened the "flood gates" in 2006, not only did we have to deal with those hardcore griefers, you had to deal with the more timid griefers.........but they are not so timid now.  They know LL does not know who they are and LL doesn't want to know who they are.  And the griefer population in SL exploded.  It was a problem when I joined.......it's a huge problem today.  And, for that, I point my finger squarely at LL.

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just saying alts still costed money at the time tied to a premium account using the same payment info..

i know cause i paid the one time fee for mine lol

[Tracy Redangel]

Yeah, I'm not gonna bother reading half of what you wrote (who has that kind of time?) but I'll just echo what everyone is trying to tell you. It's simple. Griefing is griefing. Roleplaying is roleplaying. If you are in a roleplaying sim where they engage in whatever combat using huds, and you don't want to participate...then don't. They can have whatever sort of rules they want. If you don't like the rules and don't want to play, don't go to that sim. Move to another. If people harrass, threaten or mistreat you MUTE them.

If you are in a non-roleplay sim and you are being griefed, then all you can do is file an AR, mute the chat spam, turn of particles, then contact the Estate manager or sim owner to clean up the mess.

I've been griefed, lots of people have been griefed. No, it's not fun, but Linden Labs will do pretty much next to nothing to help you out.

You have to handle griefers by yourself. My husband and I are now estate managers of our sim we share with a couple of other people. We have object entry turned off. Rezzing objects, running scripts, flight etc is set to group only. Everyone has a security orb on their land, so anyone who is not on the access list can only stay for 30 seconds before getting kicked.  Guess what? No more griefing. Those people can curse our names until the day they die, and you know what? I could care less, because those buttholes can't do a damn thing to me, haha.

[Jacki Silverfall]

tl;dr

[Czari Zenovka]

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MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote:

Expecting anyone to read that big ol long post is a form of griefing.

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LOL...I was thinking the same thing.  I tried reading it but after a paragraph of "Valley Girl" language, I kind of lost the intent.

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote:

Expecting anyone to read that big ol long post is a form of griefing.

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LOL...I was thinking the same thing.  I tried reading it but after a paragraph of "Valley Girl" language, I kind of lost the intent.

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She has been griefing us with these posts for a long time now.

Any attempt at a mature conversation is futile.

As I said in an earlier reply, if her posts are any indication of how she interacted with others in these RP SIM's, well, I think you would understand what I am getting at.