Viewer 3 Sucks. Give us Viewer 1 UI

[JohnMiddlefield]

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16 wrote:

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

I have done my research. I know what the concurrency levels are, and they have been deteriorating since the advent of Viewer 2.

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can also show other correlations over the same period

bot policy

real world economy

increase in mobile devices providing other forms of entertainment

games like minecraft and others that allow modding

increase in people building on soas rather than in SL proper and then uploading

increase in marketplace use by both creators and shoppers without the need to log inworld to do that

linden not dropping prices of tier

and so on

+

is not just one thing. i think is quite good that despite all these things SL is actual still doing as well as it is

 

 

 

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Change in bot policy was inititated long before Viewer 2 was introduced.

Real world economy - started its major tailspin and its impact was far worse, 2 years before Viewer 2 was introduced.

The other reason you have given are really stretching for an explanation.

Prior to Viewer 2 introduction, there were always factors that one could point to, to explain drop in concurrency, but the fact is, when Viewer 2 became introduced, concurrency levels started to drop noticeably, and continue to do so. The only reason why they have not tanked more, is due to the LL policy of allowing TPV. Just ask yourself why the official viewer of LL in not used by the majority of SLers - that in and of itself speaks volumes.

Noobies are given the worst Viewer ever made to use when they first come to SL, and LL scratches its head and wonders why retention is so bad, and concurrency levels continue to drop.

I am sure LL programmers when challenged in this area, keep giving the CEO an equivalent list of reasons that you just gave, and he gives in, and pursues another course; and thus we have incentives to become Mainland land users, premium membership and all the other lost causes.

 

 

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

You seem to blame the programmers at LL  Do little facts such as that viewer 2 development was outsourced to another company trouble you at all?  Unfortunately it's the managers that manage LL and they don't have a clue about anything except expense accounts and giving jobs to their friends.

[JohnMiddlefield]

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

You seem to blame the programmers at LL  Do little facts such as that viewer 2 development was outsourced to another company trouble you at all?  Unfortunately it's the managers that manage LL and they don't have a clue about anything except expense accounts and giving jobs to their friends.

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Chances are pretty darn good that one of the venture capitalists sitting on the LL board of directors, had also invested in a certain Ukranian software company. I do believe that that is all past history now, with the Viewer being outsourced to that company that had not a clue about anything concerning SL. The programmers internally are now in charge, which is a two edged sword.

It is just that I have seen posts by several of these programmers. Their arrogance is unbelievable, and I am guessing that they are the ones who really run the show. It should be an embarrassment to LL that most people prefer TPVs, and if not, it should surely at least clue in the top management into the fact that something is seriously awry. But in the long run, top management has the ultimate responsibility, but someone should put the boots to those programmers and wake them up to some heavy doses of reality. 

 

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Fair enough.  My main knowledge of any Lindens' posting is through scripting where they are always cool.  Maybe that's just because we talk the same tech :-)

[Ansariel Hiller]

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Jacki Silverfall wrote:

TL;DR  LOL :matte-motes-evil:

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Exactly that! What's so difficult in posting a statement in 5 sentences? :matte-motes-yawn:

What was the short version of the pages and pages of text again?

[Karma Avedon]

...and while we are at it, let's go back to cassettes instead of CD's and that cumbersome IPOD. Also, i find that the internet in general keeps changing and evolving in a way that does not suit me. Since it does not suit me, it obviously could not suit anyone else, so let's get rid of the internet and go back to just writing letters.

[AnnaleyaMarie]

phoenix viewer [not firestorm] is a lot like the first one. pie menu everything..

[Avariado]

I use Snowglobe v1.1.3. Guess what: it still works. Thank you, Lord.

I also would prefer Snowglobe v0.0.0 instead of the heavy beasts (Viewer 2, 3, etc.).

The perfect viewer must be: SMALL, LIGHT and FAST. Unfortunately, it doesn't exists.

[Coby Foden]

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Avariado wrote:

I use Snowglobe v1.1.3. Guess what: it still works. Thank you, Lord.

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Well, if that pleases you, then ok.  :smileyindifferent:

 

But you will be missing the beauty what mesh objects are capable of.  SL will start looking stranger and stranger for non mesh enabled viewer users as the number of mesh clothing and other mesh objects increase daily in the grid.

[Avariado]

Yes, I know that!

But at least my graphic card isn't melting in heat with Viewer 2/3... it's just too resources intensive.

 

 

[Coby Foden]

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Avariado wrote:

But at least my graphic card isn't melting in heat with Viewer 2/3... it's just too resources intensive.

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/me quickly checks are there signs of melting on her computer's graphich card... :smileysurprised:

No, nothing at all, phew.

 

The temperature is ok, can run Second Life and many other programs simultaneously.

Did you say too resource intensive?

 

No problems here, everything runs smoothly. :smileyhappy:

 

 

[Avariado]

Good for you, honey!!!

Here, Viewer 3 eats at least 600mb RAM, reaches 100% of CPU usage often, and keeps CPU at 60ºC or more.

I really like when people say... "Do you have problems? Are you sure?! Because I don't !!!".

That's very clever.

[Coby Foden]

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Avariado wrote:

Good for you, honey!!!

Here, Viewer 3 eats at least 600mb RAM, reaches 100% of CPU usage often, and keeps CPU at 60ºC or more.

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Are you British by chance?  If so, I can accept the honey... or more likely I would accept "luv" what the Britons use very freely and affectionally even to strangers. :smileywink:

At the moment, just after being half an hour in SL, Firestorm uses 898 MB of memory. When I stay for many hours it can approach 2 GB.  However the CPU usage ticks between 8 to 12 percent.  Hardly ever it will go over 15 per cent even in busy places.

[Marigold Devin]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Avariado wrote:

Good for you, honey!!!

Here, Viewer 3 eats at least 600mb RAM, reaches 100% of CPU usage often, and keeps CPU at 60ºC or more.

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Are you British by chance?  If so, I can accept the

honey

... or more likely I would accept "luv" what the Britons use very freely and affectionally even to strangers. :smileywink:

At the moment, just after being half an hour in SL, Firestorm uses 898 MB of memory. When I stay for many hours it can approach 2 GB.  However the CPU usage ticks between 8 to 12 percent.  Hardly ever it will go over 15 per cent even in busy places.

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Heyup, mate, cocka, love, duck, chuck (I'm up north in the UK).  I might use Honey if I worked with you and you were a lot younger than me.  My ex-boss's secretary in my first job used to call me Honey. I thought it was very sweet.  (She had trouble remembering my name, it turns out. )

I don't know what my own statistics are, I just know when I'm slow.  Just for the purposes of the notes swapping on this thread, my viewer of choice is Phoenix, I prefer a black handbag, even in the summer months (swapping bags means I often would forget my keys, or something:catindifferent: ), and I am (sub-consciously I think) rebelling against mesh viewers.  Ironically, when I go to extremely busy sims, such as Bondage Ranch, Phoenix crashes on me, and Firestorm works a treat.  For general teleporting around the grid, and things rezzing quickly around me, and a steadier FPS, Phoenix seems to do it for me.:catvery-happy:

I have nvidia 9500GT, only 1.5mb of RAM (which is uber-pitiful).:matte-motes-shocked:

And my Virgin connection leaves a LOT to be desired. :matte-motes-sick:

But generally, Honey Pie (I really really like you ) I tick along without many problems in my Second Life. 



[Avariado]

I'm not british, in my country we say "querida".

Querida, fofa, linda, borracho, amorzinho, doce, gata, gostosa.

Kiss and bye bye

[Coby Foden]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

 

But generally, Honey Pie (I really really like you ) I tick along without many problems in my Second Life.



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I have always liked how the British use the affectionate words, even though they might not mean much.  When I visited first time in London I was amazed by all the polite manners there.  Gives a nice humane touch.

 

[Marigold Devin]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Marigold Devin wrote:

 

But generally, Honey Pie (I really really like you ) I tick along without many problems in my Second Life.



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I have always liked how the British use the affectionate words, even though they might not mean much.  When I visited first time in London I was amazed by all the polite manners there.  Gives a nice humane touch.

 

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Sweet smiley hugs - love that gesture.

Aye, our bus drivers up north call everyone - male and female alike - "love".  It is nice, can really make your day. 

I wish Viewer 3 did suck, though, then it would have two uses, and I could have it as a vacuum cleaner (or something).

Motto in this house is "if it doesn't have two uses, it doesn't come in our house" !

[Avariado]

Well, the old Snowglobe only eats about 150-200mb of memory and gives me more FPS than you will ever have with your Viewer 3.

Probably my graphic card will live longer too.

^ ^

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Avariado wrote:

Well, the old Snowglobe only eats about 150-200mb of memory and gives me more FPS than you will ever have with your Viewer 3.

Probably my graphic card will live longer too.

^ ^

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That simply implies you don't have alot of room to play with. 150-200MB is little over what my webbrowser currently uses. With 2GB or so to spare, V3 shouldn't be an issue memory wise. The graphics card is pushed a little harder maybe, but if you get an actively cooled one (with a fan on it), running V3 should also be no issue.

The framerate is a good point, on my old computer I got about twice the fps in V1. (Coolviewer vs V3.something)

I use V3, it took some time to get used to after years of V1, but I like it a lot better than V1. Some things are just plain stupid though, like the "is typing" showing on top of an IM window while you read at the bottom. Or closing messages, sometimes it feels like you need to click a million times.

[Pirate Russell]

Try Cool VL Viewer.  It's Mesh capable, and it has the old V1 interface.  Cool VL Viewer

 

ENJOY!
~Pirate

[Allison Morningstar]

Ok, so this is a very stupid topic.

 

First off v1 is dead. Phoenix will be dead too. No plans for it to continue. Thirdly use Firestorm Singulairty or Cool VL if you want a v1 interface. I'll include the links below for you v1 fan boys/girls. 

 

But, as for asking and bitching about how linden lab will not bring v1 back. Sorry, you're **bleep** out of luck. Linden Lab has moved on. V1 had its day in the sun. Now, it's time to move on or get left behind. The new avatar baking system linden lab is going live with soon will break your precious v1 viewers including Phoenix. Also, it should be mentioned that any v1 viewer not using either the new http protocol or avatar baking protocol will no longer work. They will be indefinitely broken.

 

Not to mention. Why not use something different for once? Give a new viewer a try. There are a great selection of 3rd party viewers out there. And Firestorm REALLY caters to your need of a v1 UI. Without all the headaches of messing with settings and **bleep**. Singulairty and Cool VL well they are different let's put it that way. They are v1 UI. But, they in my opinion have their own issues. But, still give them a whirl. Can't hurt to use something different.

 

Technology moves people. Keep up or get left behind. End of story.

 

Links:

http://www.singularityviewer.org

 

http://www.phoenixviewer.com

 

http://sldev.free.fr/

 

Try those.

[JohnMiddlefield]

For a pure IT company such as Linden Lab not being able to make a viable, workable, and easy to use viewer interface as the standard viewer, and to enforce it so that everyone uses the same thing, is not only the height of incompetence on its part, but is incredibly stupid as well.

[Baloo Uriza]

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

For a pure IT company such as Linden Lab not being able to make a viable, workable, and easy to use viewer interface as the standard viewer, and to enforce it so that everyone uses the same thing, is not only the height of incompetence on its part, but is incredibly stupid as well.

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I think you're missing the point that their corporate culture encourages innovation, which requires being a lot more open than your assumption makes.

[Luc Starsider]

I would hardly call LL an IT company - let alone a pure one. They are a service provider where the service happens to be an online service. A social experiment more than anything else. That does not make them an IT company any more than, say, Facebook is an IT company. The viewer, as such, is more of a byproduct of the service than a main product (or even main part of the product).

- Luc -

[JohnMiddlefield]

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Baloo Uriza wrote:

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

For a pure IT company such as Linden Lab not being able to make a viable, workable, and easy to use viewer interface as the standard viewer, and to enforce it so that everyone uses the same thing, is not only the height of incompetence on its part, but is incredibly stupid as well.

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I think you're missing the point that their corporate culture encourages innovation, which requires being a lot more open than your assumption makes.

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If corporate culture proves detrimental to retention rates and concurrency, then it should change. I am thinking more on lines of improving retention rates and enhancing concurrency, for when SL was less open, SL thrived. SL has been on the decline for about 2-3 years, if you haven't noticed. Providing a user friendly standard in viewer that is superior to all the other TPV, would be a good starting point before pulling in the reigns.