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Viewer 3 Sucks. Give us Viewer 1 UI


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Here is why.

I downloaded and started Second Life in 2008, I remember the old day of knowing nothing about third party SL clients or anything for that matter, but I have to say that using Viewer 1 from 2008-2012 I would say viewer 1 is still the best viewer around.

Viewer 1 had a siple and easy to use interface, Admin/God Tools Function, and with Third Party Viewers, easy access to Script Times, and stats pretty much everything viewer 2 has but more simple to use. Viewer 1 was also the ideal of a viewer for new residents it wasn't confusing simple to use UI, simply click Map to find a simulator, Use Build to start building, or Fly to start flying that easy. Even the search functions in Viewer 1 were easier to use, did not require Java Scripting to be enabled, and had a more friendly profile interface compared to Viewer 3 I could search and use Viewer 1 faster than I can with Viewer 3.

OverAll after finally changing to Viewer 3 not because I wanted to but because Everyone around me is using Mesh, beyond the Griefing, and Drama which some stupid RP mods caused and chased me away from Second Life while that is some of it Viewer 3 is the other reason I really don't want to spend much time in Second Life anymore. I like Mesh, it is the one thing that can't be copybotted yet that is at least from what I know, and in General Mesh is great, but Viewer 1 is still my best friend, I will miss V1 because of what I described above of how easy it was to use.

On using Viewer 3, and finally going through and configure all of the settings the way I wanted to make it behave like Viewer 1 in some ways I just couldn't get it to change such as the way it views profiles I would like all this back like Viewer 1 it is much faster and easier to use, in fact I would like to reroll my entire UI back to V1, and use just mesh and add features I want there from Viewer 2.

Even View Profiles takes time to load on Viewer 3 compared to Viewer 1 it was like instant usually.

The real problem I find with Viewer 3 is that it feels like a Web Browser, Instead of a Virtual World it feels like I am surfing a website, or playing EVE Online, and I am serious about this not Trolling that is what it feels like to me when I login from Viewer 3.

While Viewer 3 may have some benefits I find it very confusing, and Slow to navigate compared to V1, I feel that Viewer 3 needs to be re designed to allow users to revert back to the Viewer 1 style/profile, and complete interface, and switch between Viewer 1 UI, and Viewer 3, this way people can easily choose whic they want for example Viewer 2 might be great if you are visiting websites, media, and certain In World JOBS like building. However the most of Second Life community is actually RolePlayers in GOR, NoR, DCS, BNWCS, CCS, or some other RP systems which I have not used or played yet, but there are actually more consumers than there are developers, and you factor in the confusion of using Viewer 3, the problems Viewer 3 has which doesn't even support Multi GPU/CPU, and over 512 MB of Video Memory yet there is serious problems because people are not wanting to play as much I am one of those people.

Other Problems I feel that are related to the decline of SL.

1. People can create as much content as they like in World, but you factor in the CopyBot which has plagued many for so long then you factor in the consumers who are leaving this game or have left for various reasons of griefing, the use of systems like CDS & Red Zone, at first I didn't believe it was a problem but then I saw what was going on and today they still exist, I to be honest Hate stepping in anyones store reguardless because of these systems not because I am afraid of being IP logged because I am afraid of being Flagged as a BOT actually I already have been but fact is that rumors tend to spread around even if a user has no knowledge of such, and for this reason I don't like going into any Store in SL, even my friends stores I try to avoid them, not because I don't enjoy their work because I do but because of these reasons rumors go around, and then if I don't actually buy something I want from there I feel they might really believe im a bot there to rip off others because of this crap that has plagued our grid for the last few years. The problem with this is less people buying peoples content, the less time they will work to develop new content, or releases if they use SL as a source of income.

This doesn't include the Griefers who grief in other peoples names, or the Admins who get Control/Moderator rights on regions, abuse those rights create lots of Drama, and cause issues/rumors for others ive experienced this at least twice in SL by Admins who helped griefers by bringing drama down on two developers and dragging me into the middle of it for the laughs, problem is these people actually believed and might still believe I am a BOT, and god knows how many of their friends and friends of friends would pass on such rumors.

Those are the two other reasons that I feel SL is on its decline.

SignUp Accounts.

2. The SignUp's might be great, but you still have to factor in how many of these are disposable griefer accounts, I found it amazing when Linden Lab said they don't accept prepaid cards, that is a LIE, or a misconception because certain prepaid cards will infact work but very few of them actually will and even if the creditcard itself doesnt if it works with paypal it will let you use it on Second Life.

While I haven't checked the stats myself for a long time word out has it that Second Life shows lots of Signup's but a slow economy this could be due to RL economics being bad in the U.S as well as I believe the Dollar will decline big times still if www.newamerica7.com is right.

So might want to consider giving us back Viewer 1 User Interfaces to start with, and improvements on the viewer to support Multi GPU, and 64Bit OS.



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May I ask why it is that every single post that you make references the griefing and drama that you've found yourself mixed up in but that is never through any fault of your own? Just curious.

As to your wanting Viewer 1 back... I don't think that's gonna happen.

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Well I would like to see Viewer 3 with the option to revert to a Viewer 1 UI/User Interface because I honestly think after using it for awhile now it absolutely sucks, too confusing to new people, and just way too slow to do things I can do faster with any viewer that is Viewer 1.

For example the profiles load a lot slower in viewer 1, finding people on viewer 1 was faster because I didn't have to click a drop down menu, and also Viewer 3 requires Java Script turned on to use the search feature which opens up more security exploits in Viewer 3 another thing I forgot to even talk about, which could end up causing any user to get malicious software which could compromise a users account without leaving in world just by accidently clicking a link even with update security software.

OverAll I just liked the way the UI was on Viewer 1 a lot better than Viewer 3, I wouldn't and don't mind using Viewer 3, But I would love to have the option to fully customize, or use an old UI instead of the Viewer 3 UI basically under options a setting that says use V1 UI, or something, and be able to set it back like Viewer 1, and switch to Viewer 3  UI at any time the same way it would be great I believe because not only would it speed up things the way they were for me before but it would actually not be so confusing to new users as well.

Mesh is actually the new Best Griefer tool in the game I believe because I really can't find a way to derender mesh in viewer 3 meaning graphics card crasher galore maybe I just haven't found it yet.

As for why I bring up the Griefing thing, It is a thing I hear about from some of my friends everytime I login to SL even when I don't, and it is sad to have to hear about such. For a user who has been accused as a Bot by CDS, or Red Zone it is there 24/7, and abusing consumers who spend Real Money in Second Life, this is one of the biggest things chasing cosumers away from stores in Second Life and from shopping/ enjoying the game. Linden Lab has known about this for years yet they still have not removed the system from the Market Place, or in World no matter how many of us expressed our dislike. As for the Drama it is not something that will simply go away you login to Second Life and end up having to deal with the same drama created by these two systems in Second Life, and this doesn't include the stupid mods which ruin perfectly good play in SL for lots of people and cause grief on lots of others because of their mistakes, and we are not just talking about a one time thing either, we are talking about SandBoxes constantly getting hit, people Trolling Welcome Areas it all does chase new people off.

As for griefing it isn't griefing I have found myself mixed up in, It is griefing on a wide scale I refer to which has caused problems not for only myself but for many users as a whole, we are talking about the kind of griefing where one griefer starts a problem, Linden Lab doesn't do anything when it clearly is them, then a Moderator steps in and finally before you know it the sims start getting nuked kinda thing problems like this that happen daily this being the last good example which lasted about two weeks or so total before it finally died off a bit but that wasn't before they got what they wanted. But this doesn't only go on in private Sims, it actually happens in Public Sandboxes, PM's, and Welcome Areas as well.

Sometimes I don't login to SL for like a week but I hear about problems like this from people I have known for a long time so I know it still goes on, I honestly because of Viewer 3 and mesh don't bother with SL as much anyways but to deal with friends and such other than that I am off SL these days, but I know it all still goes on because sometimes I still pop my head into a SandBox and find it filled with Cubes.

My Point is that LL needs to start by giving us back a Viewer 1 UI,/User Interface, work on some improvements to support 64 bit OS, and MultiGPU/CPU support, and while they are at it Remove CDS from the Market Place, and the systems similar to it, and that would be a great start it really isn't that hard to do giving users of Second Life an option to choose.

Oh yes and Viewer 3 also makes SL Start to look more like a WebSite, and EVE Online, because of the UI instead of a service where you can build,script, play games in the virtual world as we know it like the Virtual Game Arcades, or Militaries it begins to kinda make it feel like a place but to do nothing in my opinion but sit in a chair and talk to friends, the Reason I would like the mode select between the UI.

You know like in World OF Warcraft how a person could download custom UI's and add the .XML, and .TOC files to their Add-On Folder and it would change the look and allow users to customize the games menu's and such it wouldn't be so bad if Second Life had a similar system which offered similar features allowing people to download viewer 3, and use the old Layout, or the New, and maybe share their customization although this might be able to be abused with keyloggers.

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Well, i agree with you mostly, but i don't need so much text to explain LOL.

The copy thing of assets in SL is frustrating, but... fact ot life... and little that can be done as a full proof solution. There's always some smarty who finds a way around. Textures for example are the most simple to copy, nothing that can be done about it. I don't think the copy mess is a real problem since SL assets aren't worth a rl penny. Of course there a handful of big players in SL, but they live with it.

About all the rest, yes i do firmly agree.

Another matter that bothers me is that the rendering code has been totally rewritten since V2.8. The cause was license issues due to its viewers open source policy. The result is a lower basic fps for many, compared V1.

If one can't move around decently, there is no reason to experience SL as fun.

SL has missed the internet boat a long time ago due to major instablity issues, an isolated technical development, irrelevant position towards large companies, and the spin simply was too huge. I mean, to commercialize a product it is normal that its best sides are shown, but LL was telling huges lies.

Anyway, yes the basic V1 engine back, revamp the skin to a more modern look, add the latest options, back to the original rendering engine and... bam... everyting is much more simple and way faster.

It is possible, Phoenix has proven it can be done.

 

However, shouting to LL is like shouting to your bank or government LOL, nothing will change...

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Well I would like to see Viewer 3 with the option to revert to a Viewer 1 UI/User Interface


Have you tried this?

• Firestorm 4.0.1

It is V3 based viewer. In preferences, in skin selection there is V1 lookalike UI too.

The UI is as a close to V1 UI as can be done without extreme efforts.

How about?

Phoenix Viewer 1.6.1.1691

It is native V1 UI style viewer with mesh support.

 

And?

Cool VL Viewer v1.26.4.11

It is native V1 UI style viewer with mesh support.

Has also multilayered clothing support.

(Who said it cannot be done in V1 based viewer?)

GothGirl,

If you have not used the above viewers, why not give them a test drive to see do they please you?

You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

P.S.

As for hoping that Linden Lab would revert back to V1 style UI in their viewer: you are out of luck. It's development has stopped. It's history. Any wishing, hoping, whining, crying, shouting are in vain. Nothing will help in bringing that back in Linden Lab viewer. End of story.

P.P.S.

Personally I like V3 style UI, and the performance of V3 based viewers. V3 rocks. :smileytongue:

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

OverAll after finally changing to Viewer 3 not because I wanted to but because Everyone around me is using Mesh, beyond the Griefing, and Drama which some stupid RP mods caused and chased me away from Second Life while that is some of it Viewer 3 is the other reason I really don't want to spend much time in Second Life anymore. I like Mesh, it is the one thing that can't be copybotted yet that is at least from what I know, and in General Mesh is great, but Viewer 1 is still my best friend, I will miss V1 because of what I described above of how easy it was to use.

So might want to consider giving us back Viewer 1 User Interfaces to start with, and improvements on the viewer to support Multi GPU, and 64Bit OS.



Sounds like you would like Singularity.  It gets a lot of backports from V3, while keeping the V1 interface.


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Other Problems I feel that are related to the decline of SL.

Imminent Death of the Grid Predicted!  We'll have this story and highlights from game two of tonight's WHL finals at 11.


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

The problem with this is less people buying peoples content, the less time they will work to develop new content, or releases if they use SL as a source of income.


Seems like to a large degree, this has more to do with flawed business models dying than anything.  Failing to take into account lossage into any business model is automatically doomed to failure regardless of the environment.  To do so in a digital environment is to fail to understand the medium in which you work.  Scarcity based business models don't work where there is no natural scarcity.  Therefore, it is safer if you work in things that do have scarcity: Manhours and land.


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

2. The SignUp's might be great, but you still have to factor in how many of these are disposable griefer accounts, I found it amazing when Linden Lab said they don't accept prepaid cards, that is a LIE, or a misconception because certain prepaid cards will infact work but very few of them actually will and even if the creditcard itself doesnt if it works with paypal it will let you use it on Second Life.


I agree, abuse mitigation has been a long-standing problem with Second Life; right now it's getting bad enough that abuse prevention and response needs to be a high priority.

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Mesh is actually the new Best Griefer tool in the game I believe because I really can't find a way to derender mesh in viewer 3 meaning graphics card crasher galore maybe I just haven't found it yet.

I HAVE NO TROUBLE DERENDERING MESH WITH FIRESTORM.  IN FACT IT'S A GREAT WAY TO SEE NAKED GIRLS WHO HAVEN'T HEEDED THE WARNINGS TO WEAR UNDERCLOTHES UNDER THEIR MESH CLOTHES.

HOWEVER, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO USE A TPV, MAYBE YOU COULD START A JIRA TO HAVE IT ADDED TO THE PIE MENU IN THE OFFICIAL VIEWER.

 


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

As for why I bring up the Griefing thing, It is a thing I hear about from some of my friends everytime I login to SL even when I don't, and it is sad to have to hear about such.

BIRDS OF THE FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER MAYBE ?????

 


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Well I would like to see Viewer 3 with the option to revert to a Viewer 1 UI/User Interface because I honestly think after using it for awhile now it absolutely sucks, too confusing to new people, and just way too slow to do things I can do faster with any viewer that is Viewer 1.


PERSONALLY, I LIKED THE UI IN FIRESTORM BEST (FIRESTORM BEFORE THE INTRODUCTION OF 'FLEXIBLE USER INTERFACE (FUI).'  ONCE I GOT USED TO IT I THINK THE MENUS AND LAY OUT  WERE THE MOST INTUITIVE.

I DO AGREE WITH YOU AND IT DOES TEND TO COBBLE THE OTHER VIEWERS  THAT THE CURRENT SEARCH AND PROFILE GUI LL IS USING SUCKS.

 

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The programmers run LL and SL and they do not want to do anything extra because they are lazy. Since most users settle on using TPVs,  the LL programmers don't care that SL is being ruined by providing terrible official viewers. Besides they know that they will remain to the end and be the last ones to turn out the lights, in case things do get out of hand.

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SL is a lotuv fun so long as you dont obsess over anything about it. I never used viewer1 but viewer2 really sukked .. so i started using Firestorm .. problem solved! I havent tried viewer3 so i dont know about it .. why should i try it when FS works ok for me? As for copybotters .. I dont make or sell anything so they dont bother me 1 bit .. & as for "griefers" .. they dont bother me either cuz i either befriend them or ignore them

The attitude w/ which you approach SL determines how much fun you have. If you get all bent over stuff not working or ppl being weird .. then you end up just complaining & not having much fun. But if you dont care about all that stuff you complain about .. just shrug it off or ignore it .. then you can make friends, listen to music, dance, rp relationships, etc etc .. & hav loadsuv fun

Why even bother w/ SL if yer goin2 let the stuff that goes on in SL bother you so much that you post a big long complaint about it? If SL bothered me as much as it seems to bother you GG D .. i simply wouldnt play it

Jeanne

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Baloo Uriza wrote:

Two tips: Using different typefaces is great for highlighting specific points, but is a pain to read when you do it for everything.  ALLCAPS just makes it look like you're writing from a terminal that was considered obsolete by 1980.

i agree

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

The programmers run LL and SL and they do not want to do anything extra because they are lazy.

 More like, are you, since it's an open source project.  Granted, the main branch gets pared down to just what the Lindens are willing to support out of business need, but that's why code forks exist as TPVs.  In other words, if you don't like it, fork it and make it your own.  Or submit a patch and see if it gets accepted into main.

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Baloo Uriza wrote:


JohnMiddlefield wrote:

The programmers run LL and SL and they do not want to do anything extra because they are lazy.

 More like, are
you
, since it's an open source project.  Granted, the main branch gets pared down to just what the Lindens are willing to support out of business need, but that's why code forks exist as TPVs.  In other words, if you don't like it, fork it and make it your own.  Or submit a patch and see if it gets accepted into main.

Or use a TPV developed by those who actually use SL. The lindens don't use it apparently.

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

Or use a TPV developed by those who actually use SL. The lindens don't use it apparently.

More like you're confusing what you want out of a viewer with what the Lindens have a business need for in their own viewer.  It'd be pretty foolish to think for a minute that they don't eat their own dog food over on Linden Street.

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I find V3 to be the best user interface.  Firestorm has some additional features that I like, but Firestorm currently has messed-up profile boxes.  I'm really looking forward to the next Firestorm update.  Currently, I use Firestorm about 60% of the time and V3 40% of the time.  Oh, I use CoolVL rarely because it has a couple of features that I can't find anywhere else.  V1 sux big time.

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Baloo Uriza wrote:


JohnMiddlefield wrote:

Or use a TPV developed by those who actually use SL. The lindens don't use it apparently.

More like you're confusing what you want out of a viewer with what the Lindens have a business need for in their own viewer.  It'd be pretty foolish to think for a minute that they don't eat their own dog food over on Linden Street.

Business need for a viewer? The business need for a viewer would be a viewer that is intutitive, easy to use, and one that would actually enhance business, rather than drive people away.  LL seems to be unable to create a viewer that is good for business. I am sure that LL has looked at every possible reason as to why less than 1% of new sign ups stay for less than two weeks, but it won't look at the obvious reason - the official viewer.

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

Business need for a viewer? The business need for a viewer would be a viewer that is intutitive, easy to use, and one that would actually enhance business, rather than drive people away. 

And the Lindens agree.  Oddly enough, monthly active users has been climbing steadily since Q3 2010, which was approximately when V2 entered beta.


LL seems to be unable to create a viewer that is good for business. I am sure that LL has looked at every possible reason as to why less than 1% of new sign ups stay for less than two weeks, but it won't look at the obvious reason - the official viewer.

I'm certain your idea of their churn rate is grossly exaggerated, given by most accounts it's more like 64% based on the trend last 60 days versus total users painted over the time range in which they were published (up to Q3 last year thus far), which is about MOR for  online entertainment.  Hulu Plus would kill to have that kind of retention.

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Baloo Uriza wrote:


JohnMiddlefield wrote:

Business need for a viewer? The business need for a viewer would be a viewer that is intutitive, easy to use, and one that would actually enhance business, rather than drive people away. 

And the Lindens agree.  Oddly enough, monthly active users has been climbing steadily since Q3 2010, which was approximately when V2 entered beta.

 


Active users? Since that stat has been eliminated from public view, how do you know that? You aren't a linden alt are you?

The real stat that is useful is concurrency, and with that stat which is still available there has been a stead decline in concurrency since the introduction of Viewer 2. That is a fact. Go back to your little cubicle in Linden Lab land.

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

It has been eliminated from public view, how do you know that? You aren't a linden alt are you?

You heard it here, first: Being able to Google something now means you're a Linden alt.


JohnMiddlefield wrote:

The real stat that is useful is concurrency, and with that stat which is still available there has been a stead decline in concurrency since the introduction of Viewer 2. That is a fact. 

A fact not backed up by any publicly available information.  Do some research, I told you what to look for already.  Just because you see fewer people around might have to do with your winning personality and people avoiding you specifically.  I can't blame 'em.

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Baloo Uriza wrote:


JohnMiddlefield wrote:

It has been eliminated from public view, how do you know that? You aren't a linden alt are you?

You heard it here, first: Being able to Google something now means you're a Linden alt.

JohnMiddlefield wrote:

The real stat that is useful is concurrency, and with that stat which is still available there has been a stead decline in concurrency since the introduction of Viewer 2. That is a fact. 

A fact not backed up by any publicly available information.  Do some research, I told you what to look for already.  Just because you see fewer people around might have to do with your winning personality and people avoiding you specifically.  I can't blame 'em.

I have done my research. I know what the concurrency levels are, and they have been deteriorating since the advent of Viewer 2. Would you like me to provide a link? I bet you don't, because that would really show you up. You are obviously a linden hack, if not an actual employee of LL.

Come on now, show your real colours. Would you like the link showing concurrency levels or not?

Now show me your link showing that more distinct avis are logging into SL than they were before the advent of Viewer 2. You can't because that data has been discontinued for public consumption by LL, and for good reason.

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JohnMiddlefield wrote:

I have done my research. I know what the concurrency levels are, and they have been deteriorating since the advent of Viewer 2.


can also show other correlations over the same period

bot policy

real world economy

increase in mobile devices providing other forms of entertainment

games like minecraft and others that allow modding

increase in people building on soas rather than in SL proper and then uploading

increase in marketplace use by both creators and shoppers without the need to log inworld to do that

linden not dropping prices of tier

and so on

+

is not just one thing. i think is quite good that despite all these things SL is actual still doing as well as it is

 

 

 

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