KarenMichelle Lane Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I was a Granny-Geek before I met Second Life. Now I can add a new badge to my nick-nack shelf - YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenMichelle Lane Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: I thought geek was the new sexy. :smileyvery-happy: Anyway, I'm proud of being a geek so I'm not insulted in the least. To be a geek you have to be smart. RIGHT ON ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 A quick perusal of the forums here, the SL feeds, and many inworld groups for clubs and fashion will quickly inform you that this place has a very strong LACK of geeks. The lack of technical aptitude among SL's user base is sometimes astounding. SLers seem less tech savvy than even the general internet / web browsing global population. Sometimes the questions asked are amazingly basic in nature. What this place needs is a customer support not geared towards the tech-savvy, but the tech-intimidated. That said, it has rarely had either approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissDeeMeanur Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Pussycat Catnap wrote: A quick perusal of the forums here, the SL feeds, and many inworld groups for clubs and fashion will quickly inform you that this place has a very strong LACK of geeks. The lack of technical aptitude among SL's user base is sometimes astounding. SLers seem less tech savvy than even the general internet / web browsing global population. Sometimes the questions asked are amazingly basic in nature. What this place needs is a customer support not geared towards the tech-savvy, but the tech-intimidated. That said, it has rarely had either approach. Geeks are perceived by non-geeks (and some geeks as well) as having a range of characteristics. It may be that Ebbe perceives just one of these characteristics, a semi-autistic lack of empathic common sense, to be the most significant one, when of course this is really just a prime selecter for those who volunteer to immerse themselves in a fantasy world where their anonymity prevents effective retaliation against their own deeply flawed social perception, with the ability to self-augment a corrupted moral indignation. And the main problems in the forums is that the tech-savvy generally do not seem to realise that it is even more important to express themselves accurately when typing posts than to ensure that code is correct, and that just because they know the difference between a subroutine and a subfunction does not mean that they have an expertise in personal relationship management. Dee Generate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 So he's leaving? I hadn't heard. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Prokofy Neva wrote: So he's leaving? I hadn't heard. Link? I think it's a question of perception of time. I'm willing to bet good money that Ebbe won't be the LL CEO fifty years from now and some people may well consider that as "soon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Like the internet itself isnt a vast wasteland of geekdom. Everyone is looking at their cell phone screen today is a geek. If you are reading this, you are a geek. If you attempt to form an argument against what I am saying, an anonymous person on the internet whom you have never met in real life, you are a geek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Prokofy Neva wrote: So he's leaving? I hadn't heard. Link? After a while of reading the forums you'll find certain posters will put up things just to get a rise out of people. You can discover this through a mixture of psychology and serendipity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Theresa Tennyson wrote: After a while of reading the forums you'll find certain posters will put up things just to get a rise out of people. You can discover this through a mixture of psychology and serendipity. One very interesting observation that illustrates this: I don't think Ebbe had even started his first day at work at LL before the first postings about how big a failure he was appeared. No, I may exaggerate a bit there but he certainly didn't have time to do anything before it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 ChinRey wrote: One very interesting observation that illustrates this: I don't think Ebbe had even started his first day at work at LL before the first postings about how big a failure he was appeared. No, I may exaggerate a bit there but he certainly didn't have time to do anything before it started. That probably had something to do with where he used to work before getting the job at LL, and why he stopped working there... Analogy: You are a sailor on a New England whaling ship, in the early 1800's, the First Mate comes out on deck and anounces that there's a new Captain... Then he tells you the Captain's name is Jonah, and he's got a phobia about whales... Cue sarcastic comments before the new Captain stomps up the gangplank on his two wooden legs, and waves hello with his hook after scratching his eyepatch then anounces "Ok lads, aim the pointy end that way!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Klytyna wrote: That probably had something to do with where he used to work before getting the job at LL, and why he stopped working there... Yes, there was this diehard rumour he had been responible for some DOA project at Microsoft - can't remember the name. He wasn't actually, he was working at the MS Word department. I think there are three reasons why some people distrusted Ebbe right from the start. One is of course that SL'ers tend to be rather conservative and don't like changes very much. The other is that SL'ers tend to distrust "outsiders". The third... well there's no denying that LL hasn't always been lucky with their choices of CEOs in the past. That being said, I do actually believe that Rod Humble did a far better job than he's usually given credit for. Yes, he didn't achieve much noticeable improvements and some of LL's Biggest Blunders happened while he was at the helm. But he had to deal with a corporate culture gone wild and a middle management stuck in a rut and unable or unwilling to make necessary changes. It's worth noticing that Ebbe achieved some remarkable improvements very fast and that can only mean that his predecessor had laid a very good foundation for him. Unfortunately, right now Second Life doesn't really seem to have a CEO at all, he's too busy with Sansar these days. That's a pity because although the SL team at LL seems to work far better now than ever before, they're still making mistakes and a lot of those msitakes are exactly the kind somebody like Ebbe could have helped them avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 ChinRey wrote: Unfortunately, right now Second Life doesn't really seem to have a CEO at all, he's too busy with Sansar these days. That's a pity because although the SL team at LL seems to work far better now than ever before, they're still making mistakes and a lot of those msitakes are exactly the kind somebody like Ebbe could have helped them avoid. Yeah well, bst way to improve the SL Dev team... Frankly I suspect whats needed is to FORCE all dev team members to throw away their 2003 phil linden clone avis, and get decent ones, then FORCE them to spend at least 2 hours a day roaming the main grid, in a decent modern avi, so they can SEE what their hypothetical planned changes will mean and SEE what SL is really like. There was that 'amazing new stealth feature' one of them dreamed up, after belatedly noticing that for years, people had used prims more than 10m on a side to build with. So, he thought it would make sl look better if 'large architectural prims' were rendered even if they were upto 32 m PAST your draw distance, and modified a sercer code to do this with altered priorities on the server sending object details to your viewer for rendering. In a 2003 noob avi, on an empty sim on beta grid, this probably looked fine. When they rolled it out on Le'Tigre RC (about 10$ of the main grid back then) people in flexy skirts, flexi hair and sculpty boots (this was back in the pre mesh era) found that half their hair, half their skirts, the floor they were standing on and the avi's around them were invisible, BUT... you could see the floor slabs of the buildings on the sim next door AND the gpu crasher prim on the grifer in the next sim too. Then they rolled this crud out at 2 week intervals over Bluesteel RC and Mafnum RC, so you had a 30% chance of tp'ing to a sim where your avi would... fail. It was more than 8 weeks before they even TRIED to fix the mess. The 'geeks' are in the dev teams, geekdom isn't finding out how sl works, thats an essential survival skill, geekdom is thinking than an empty sim on the beta grid in an old old ststem noob avi is 'representative of current sl' and designing around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Klytyna wrote: Yeah well, bst way to improve the SL Dev team... Frankly I suspect whats needed is to FORCE all dev team members to throw away their 2003 phil linden clone avis,... I hadn't joined SL in 2003 but I'm fairly sure they didn't have avatars like Oz Linden's Grand Old Man or Dan Linden's skeleton or Nyx Linden's little robot back then. Klytyna wrote: There was that 'amazing new stealth feature' one of them dreamed up, after belatedly noticing that for years, people had used prims more than 10m on a side to build with. I was away for a few years so I missed that one. But I did see how messy the implentations of SSB and Project Interesting were in 2013 so I have noe problems believing you. But! The middle management stuck in a rut I mentioned, left shortly afterwards (only weeks before Ebbe joined), things changed almost overnight and have kept changing since then. The first big project in 2014 was the introduction of CDN and that was a very well executed project. They have slipped back into their old sins a few times of course (remember the first mesh starter avatars?) and I certainly won't say the new LL is perfect. But you can't compare the current SL developer team to what it was before 2014 and any example dating back to the time before that simply isn't relevant to how they perform today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 ChinRey wrote: I hadn't joined SL in 2003 but I'm fairly sure they didn't have avatars like Oz Linden's Grand Old Man or Dan Linden's skeleton or Nyx Linden's little robot back then. I was on the Catznip Group chat just before xmas chatting with Nirans (the Dev team for Black Dragon TPV), and they were commenting on how they just go and talk to Torley Linden when they have a problem rather than filing JIRA's, and later in the conv the 'out of touch dev' thing came up and Nirans admitted that... *gasp!* That after a decade or so, Torley Linden has finally bought a new beard... It's a sculpty... As forf the 'Welcome Island Refugee FuglyMesh' I'd rather not remember, I mean, a years preparation for fitmesh launch and they launch with no-mod non-fit fitmesh, where no two avis can share a single clothing item, and all of them looked worse than ruth! My retinas still bleed remembering that stuff so I won't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Klytyna wrote: ... That after a decade or so, Torley Linden has finally bought a new beard... It's a sculpty... See what I mean? Even Torley is trying his best to update and he's the oldest and most conservative developer Linden. The developers will never ever manage to match Governance though, some of those guys have the coolest and most unusual avatars ever seen on any grid. Edit: Am I the only one who feels that a good retro avatar can often be cooler than 99% of the modern barbie doll ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissDeeMeanur Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 ChinRey wrote: Klytyna wrote: That probably had something to do with where he used to work before getting the job at LL, and why he stopped working there... Yes, there was this diehard rumour he had been responible for some DOA project at Microsoft - can't remember the name. He wasn't actually, he was working at the MS Word department. Nah, Ebbe was responsible for the stillborn Vizact 2000 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Vizact] and left Microsoft on the day (April 1st, 2000 - and no, it's not a joke) that it was discontinued. Previously he had been in charge of the Mac Office 98 migration, until an internal email of his was leaked, which discussed stealing (literally) a competitor's functionality. Dee Stroyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 MissDeeMeanur wrote: Nah, Ebbe was responsible for the stillborn Vizact 2000 Oh, seems they forgot to mention that. But does being in charge of a project the last few months before the company decides to abandon it mean you're doomed to be a failure 14 years later? Even if you've been working for 11 years in the same company before that happened? MissDeeMeanur wrote: and left Microsoft on the day (April 1st, 2000 - and no, it's not a joke) that it was discontinued. He left in March that year actually, to work for - and eventually replace again - the guy he had succeeded as head of the Vizact team. Edit: This isn't actually about Ebbe Altberg at all, it's about the people who declared him a failure as CEO of LL even before he had started. And of course, consequently about the mentality that makes so many people declare Sansar a failure even before it has launched. I'm sceptical too, I have to say that but I reserve my judgement until I've actually seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cully Andel Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'm certainly not preteen and I'm too old for Disney and your comment was way more offensive than Ebbe's. There's no insult there just a plain simple fact that we're not all technophobed who can script and have the latest technology - so he wants to make sure that that isn't how Sansar is set up. It's so everyone can use it no matter how limited our techno knowledge is. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinuxGod4u Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I assume Ebbe Linden is going to part ways with SL then?? "I Love Simplicity" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissDeeMeanur Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 LinuxGod4u wrote: Are you saying "Ebbe Linden" is leaving??? Fact over Fiction Perhaps you should check his Twitter feed? Dee Lirious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Ebbe's c;laim that his pet project, Project Stupid, is for everyone and not for geeks is utterly inane. Project Stupid is centered around VR, Ebbe even posed for a pic on one of his How to save SL blog posts holding an occulus vomitcam geek-goggle. Any conversation between the vr people rapidly decends into pure unadulterated geekdom as they discuss the hypothetical merits of the Uberthrutch 9000 vs the Megapuke 8500 if/when either of them comes out of alpha testing assuming they will sell for less than 600 US greenbacks. Ordinary non techy non-geeks won't use Project Stupid, its geek specific from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Klytyna wrote: Ordinary non techy non-geeks won't use Project Stupid, its geek specific from the get-go. Maybe more for rich kids than for geeks perhaps but yes, I see your point. LL is sending out conflicting signals there, one moment it's a ultrahigh tech toy for the few, the next moment it's a low entry service for the masses. They have to choose one or the other. I hope they go for the "rich kids' toy" option because that is obvioulsy what they want to and things you make from your heart tend to be better than things you make with your mind focused on your bank account. It's named "Sansar", not "Stupid" btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Klytyna wrote: Ebbe's c;laim that his pet project, Project Stupid, is for everyone and not for geeks is utterly inane. Project Stupid is centered around VR, Ebbe even posed for a pic on one of his How to save SL blog posts holding an occulus vomitcam geek-goggle. Any conversation between the vr people rapidly decends into pure unadulterated geekdom as they discuss the hypothetical merits of the Uberthrutch 9000 vs the Megapuke 8500 if/when either of them comes out of alpha testing assuming they will sell for less than 600 US greenbacks. Ordinary non techy non-geeks won't use Project Stupid, its geek specific from the get-go. Because nobody can see 3D information without a 3D viewer - nobody got to see movies like Avatar, Toy Story 3, Star Wars - The Force Awakens, etc. unless they wore 3D glasses. Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 ChinRey wrote:It's named "Sansar", not "Stupid" btw. A brief history of Project Stupid... The executive formerly known as Phil Linden comes up with the idea of starting SL 2, to put SL 1 out of bussiness, he goes to the bankers and they say... NO! Phil makes a public announcement to the effect that he intends to stand on a street corner with a paper cup begging for money to make his dream happen. Ebbe panics, and launches Project Stupid, claiming that if anyone is going to put SL out of bussiness, it should be him (Yes he actually said that, in an official blog post on SL...) Plan A... A new improved SL, running on cloud, so all the pesky stuff about servers, and technicians etc. is somebody elses problem... They announce no account/content transfer. Massive negative consumer reaction, exodus of people people convinced SL is doomed begins... Plan B... an innovative not-sl-at-all vr experience foxcused on pretentious experimental art installations by famous vr artists. There are not enough of those to make a sustainable bussiness, nor enough consumer interest to get anyone to wisit the stuff. Plan C... Corporate VR product preview displays! Companies will be really edgy aboiut uploading their 2020 model saloon car onto Stupid, incase a competitor copybots it and launches the shape in 2019... Plan D... Ummm, Well... Maybe, you know we could, ummm... Oh crap, where is Ebbe, he's full of bright ideas, didn't he come up with plans A,B, and C... It's called Project Stupid for a reason, can you guess what that reason is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Klytyna wrote: The executive formerly known as Phil Linden comes up with the idea of starting SL 2, to put SL 1 out of bussiness, he goes to the bankers and they say... NO! High Fidelity was founded in April 2013, almost a year before Ebbe Altberg joined LL. The list of investors who invested 2.4 million dollars in the project that month includes Google and Linden Lab. Klytyna wrote: It's called Project Stupid for a reason, can you guess what that reason is? Yes, I have kind'a noticed that you're not exactly Sansar's biggest fan. What I don't understand though, is why you're so emotional about it. If you don't like it, stay away from it. Simple as that. If you are worried about the negative impact Sansar may have on Second Life, let's look at the facts: Sansar has been (barely) visible in the news twice, when it was first announced and recently when it seems to be close to release. On both those occasions the decline of Second Life slowed down a little bit for a while. That may have been a coincidence but there is certainly no indication that Sansar has reduced the interest in Second Life so far. As for development, Linden Lab has done a better - or at least less bad - job updating Second Life since 2014 than they have ever done before. Of course, you could argue that the resources spent on Sansar should have been used to create a "Second Life 2" instead. I think that would have been the ideal solution but let's face it, that option was lost long, long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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