Dimensions, Avatars, Content - some thoughts

[Tari Landar]

Y'all are really dead set on this size/scale thing aren't ya?

When I build, I build to what I can only assume is average. Since I can't possibly know, I eyeball it. Most things I make, I leave modify, for people to shrink, or enlarge, at will. On the few things I don't leave modify-which is usually pretty rare, I'll gladly modify the size for someone. I in fact just did this recently for someone who plays a very, very small(but not tiny) av. She had no problems asking, and I had no problems helping. Win-win for us both, and we didn't even have to argue about rl scale.

There is no way to build to suit everyone's opinion of average, large, or small..or any other size. All we can do is assume. Even if you don't just eyeball it, you still have to assume you know what average is, unless you intend to poll the entire grid, or majority of it, and the various types of avs too. Ain't no one got time for that, sorry. Even the most dedicated of builder hasn't got time to learn how to read minds and determine what each person's idea of perfect really is.

I kinda like that though. We've got all sizes of things, and people, in sl. Stuff made for the largest, and smallest of avs. Not everyone out there is even looking for rl scale. Some folks may be, but to be honest I don't believe they are the majority-but that's just my opinion based off entirely anecdotal evidence(which is all anyone really has). I don't take an opinion of a relatively small sampling of sl and assume that's what many, or most, want. I do the best with what I've got. If it's not right, they can either suit it to their liking, or have me fix it. In either case, it's not a huge deal.

I've never really understood the whole size/scale argument. I mean it's been around for as long as I can remember, and the minds never meet on the matter. Whether or not something is possible isn't really all that important, as I see it as far as this issue goes. But what is important is whether or not people WANT to do it (rl scale inside sl that is). I don't think most do, or at least they certainly don't come off as if they do. So I suppose that's the part I don't understand. Why arguing about the possibility is even all that important, when the desire(overall) to make said possibility happen doesn't exist. Maybe I'm just an oddball, because this argument seems about as pointless as many others. Yet I still read them, in case anything has changed, lmao. It hasn't, ftr. Same opinions, same arguments, same thoughts.

Whatever floats your boat, eh?

[Ceka Cianci]

bleh..

pulled my post..

was a waste of time.:smileyfrustrated:

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

And, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the avatar height slider is a different measurement to the prim measurement, even though they both use meters. It used to be, anyway, and it probably still is. So anyone who sets their height with the Appearance editor, would get it wrong anyway.

---

To be clear:

The avatar appearance editor uses exactly the same meter (exactly the same lenght) as is used for prim and land measurement. Meter is the same meter all over SL. There are no different sizes of meter. 

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Ok. So the idea that the Appearance editor height measurement and prim meters don't match is correct. Therefore new arrivals using the Appearance editor to set their RL height will end up with the wrong height, which is what I was pointing out.

Now for your long post, which I have to break up into smaller chunks

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

1. You are mistaken that there has been any speculation that you have been trying to "force" everyone to be RL heights. But you have been debating in favour of it. You can't force anyone, and nobody even suggested it.

2. Nobody has even suggested that you support that every avatar should be the same height (the bolded sentence in your post), so I don't know why you wrote and emphasised that sentence.

3. You are mistaken if you believe that anyone has stated that RL and SL meters are not the same. What was said (by me) is that, if you treat them as being different, your desire that general avatar heights = general RL people heights is already true, so there is no need to change anyone's mind about avatar heights.

4. You yourself have agreed that things in SL cannot work properly in RL sizes. I.e you agreed that rooms need to be bigger for it to work. But, if rooms are bigger, furniture needs to be bigger to make the rooms look right. And then, of course, avatars need to be bigger to be right for the furniture.

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1. I just wanted to make it crystal clear that I'm not trying to force anybody to be anything. I'm not even "persuading" (as you say in your very post I'm replying to) anybody. I just present ideas how I see things, and what methods I think would make SL a more beautiful and coherent place. And I really do think that building to RL scale would be very good step towards that goal. Clear enough?

2. Again just to make it crystal clear that I do not support equal avatar size for everybody.

3. You are playing with words "the meters can be the same" but "treat them as different".

   

(you are an expert in wordplay, sometimes I have to read many times to clearly understand what you have said)

4. I have said that RL sized avatars and objects do work perfectly in SL. You have said so too. We are in agreement regarding that. We both agree that avatars need larger rooms to feel comfortable.:

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1. All I said was that there has been no speculation that you are trying to force people into RL sizes. However, your posts have come across as attempt at persuading us, whether it was intended or not. And I'm not talking about only this thread. Like you, I'm talking about the other thread, which is what you were referring to in your OP.

2. Nobody suggested that you did or do support equal avatar sizes for everyone. The first time that was even mentioned was in your own OP in this thread.

3. The 'meters' thing is not a play on words at all. It was a suggestion that would give you exactly what you want, that's all.

4. We do agree on that. It would be stupid not to. But the result would be that the larger rooms would need more furniture, using more prims/LI, just for the sake of making them look right. That waste is unnecessary with larger avatars and, therefore, larger furniture.

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

I want to point out:

Big avatars need large rooms, small avatars need less large rooms than big avatars. Why should small avatars need as large rooms as big avatars? Anyway for both, the rooms would be larger that in RL.

Let's suppose a male avatar which is 2.20 m tall would be ok in a room measuring 7 m x 7 m. Then there is mean RL height male avatar 1.74 m tall. What would be suitable room size for it? Surely the big avatar's room would be too large in comparison. To get the exact same feeling for small avatar as the big one has we need to do:

Floor length of small avatar's room = (1.74 / 2.20) * 7 = 5.53

Thus for the same room experience:

• Big avatar's room 7 m x 7 m

• Small avatar's room 5.53 m x 5.53 m

 

Your argument "

if rooms are bigger, furniture needs to be bigger to make the rooms look right. And then, of course, avatars need to be bigger to be right for the furniture

" is not correct. You are totally wrong in thinking that way. Think very carefully again. You are just going in circles with that statement, and in effect you suggest (unconsiously or knowingly)  that the big avatar has reached a size "sweet spot" where everything looks right. Of course you have earlier denied of supporting any "sweet spot" idea. Draw exactly dimensioned layouts from both rooms and furniture, and observe.

(Or easier make the large room with large furniture, make a copy, shrink the copy by 1.74/2.20 and there you have the rooms to compare.)

 

We can say that the 7x7 room is all right for the big avatar, and the 5.53x5.53 room is all right for the small avatar. Small avatar is happy with RL sized furniture, big avatar needs larger furniture, fit for its size. Visually inspecting the rooms, the furniture in each of them occupy relatively the same areas from the floors.:

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I hope I get through the very long post before I'm due to tee off lol

I haven't decided that there's a "sweet spot" for avatar, furniture and room sizes. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The only thing I've decided is that the practicality/functionality of seeing and moving well in confined spaces (rooms) causes a limit on those sizes at the smaller end because of the camera.

Of course you can have RL-sized avatars and furniture in large rooms, provided you have either much more furniture in the rooms (or it will look far too empty) or bigger furniture. The first is an unnecessary waste of prims and the second leads to bigger avatars. SL users in general have settled on the bigger avatar option and it works perfectly well.

I'm not even going to test your shrinking idea because I already know that there's a lower limit before the camera gets in the way. And I'm not going change the camera settings because, on the whole, people use the default, so there's no need to test it.

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

As I said above I'm not trying to persuade anybody to be anything. You could take this as education and an eye opener, things could be different, and in mind better, than what they have been so far.

If you travel a lot in SL, by foot and really look at things, you would see that everything is not all right concerning sizing of things. Some designers rely on GAH method (like you). I'm sure that there are many sizes of GAH, there is no globally defined size of GAH. Each designer who relies on GAH naturally have their own estimation of GAH. So GAH method in designing is not accurate. Things all over SL are not scaled equally. Some designers make large things, some make even larger things. And anything in between. There are designers who actually do use meters (surprise!). But most them of scale up things like the GAH people. Some scale up by 1.5, some might scale up by 2.0. And again anything in between. In my mind this is not a very good thing. It makes SL to like some topsy turvy place. Nothing is exact. Keen eye notices this easily. If you stay mostly in the same place always, everything could look "okey'ish". But travelling all over SL gives a different picture how things are.

Your view that "we should accept things as they are" sounds pessimistic to me. Why should we accept it as we know that things could be better? I would be very happy to see that SL was more consistent and thus more beautiful than what it is today.:

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Aha! A bit that takes very little to answer

First. What does GAH mean? I can't reply to most of the above quote without knowing that.

Accepting things as they are is the only sensible option, otherwise we'd be frustrated all the time. Yes, people do create things on various scales, so they don't look right together, but that's what SL is. It would be very nice if all creators made things to the same scale. I won't argue against that because I agree that it would be much better, but it doesn't happen and it never will, so there is no point in even bothering about it. Some may think, "I bother because I care about SL and what it looks like", and I would say that that's just how *they* would like things to be for themselves, so it should not carry the day.

 

It's a heck of a long post to reply to but I'm getting there. Not too much more to go now

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

The sizes in SL have not worked perfectly well for many years. It is just how you have observed things. I have observed things differently. Avatar of any size can see that content in SL is not equally scaled. It's not "perfect" situation.

The sizes

have

worked perfectly well for years - for the vast majority of users, that is. We know they don't work for you. You have chosen to have an unusually short avatar, so there isn't a lot of stuff you can buy that suits your height. It's you who is out of step with the world. The world isn't out of step with its population.

f you haven't seen me state the benefits of RL sizing earlier then you have not read all my posts thoroughly.

It's not that "I just prefer it".

 

To state clearly the benefits what I see in RL sizing:

• LI and land area savings using mesh content

-- lower LI means that people could decorate their homes with more objects than would be the case with large upscaled ojects

• In prim content land area saving

  --- instead of that house occupies the whole parcel, with smaller house one could have nice small garden

• Consistent scaling of things (Means using: 1 SLm = 1 RLm)

• More beautiful SL experience for everybody

• If Linden Lab finally could find a way to tell the true mesh height in appearance editor:

-- no more confusion about avatar heights

   (now the situation is a chaos: different viewers give different heights, measuring with prim is the only accurate one)

Again, I'm not trying to persuade people to change anything.  Take this as a fun reading how things could be instead of how they are now.

Happy SLing all, thanks for reading.  :smileyhappy: :heart:

---

I can't find fault with your reasons for wishing RL sizes throughout. I have no objections to it, except that, because of the camera, it doesn't work in typical RL-sized rooms - and I'm talking about my own RL rooms which, in fact, are larger than most of the houses around me. If you can't have a little fully furnished country cottage, sized in RL meters, then RL sizes don't work. And we both agree that you can't have that RL-sized country cottage because the rooms would be much too small to move around the furniture in.

On the other hand, if all creators and builders only created stuff on a 2:1 scale, then it would all look identical to 1:1 and would work very well with the camera. By all means scale things, but 1:1 does not work. It only works if you abandon the idea of RL-size rooms - which you've done anyway, so your RL-sized idea is already broken

 

Phew! Here endeth the reply to your very long post

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

First. What does GAH mean?

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Here goes, short explanation of GAH method: (:smileyvery-happy:)

 

GAH is short for ”General Avatar Heights”. There isn't any information anywhere how tall this GAH is. To obtain GAH it goes something like this: You go inworld often, spend many hours there each day for a period of your choosing. What you do during that time is that you observe the avatars near you, make mental notes of their heights (no need to actually measure the avatars and make notes, just eyeball them). After you feel that you have made enough observations you have some mental image of the general avatar height (i.e. GAH). What you do next is that you adjust your height to this GAH. Don't measure your avatar with a prim, don't rely on what the viewer tells for your height. Just eyeball your avatar and adjust the height so that it matches the GAH instilled in your mind.

 

How do you use GAH?

 

After you have adjusted your avatar to GAH you're ready to go. You use your avatar as reference when creating content. You eyeball your avatar, and you eyeball your content under creation. When it looks that the size of content matches the size of avatar then your content is ready. Congratulations!

 

Instead of GAH, can we use meters in content creation?

 

What the GAH supporters might say is:

”Absolutely not! Meters are totally meaningless in SL. They have no use whatsover. Meters just confuse matters. Only thing that matters is GAH. Linden Lab should have measured even land and prims in GAHs instead of confusing meters. Meters in SL are evil, they are trying convert SL into RL.”

 

Are there any bad side effects in using GAH?

 

There are rumours that GAH method is rather inaccurate and that it continues to spread and support gigantism. It has been also said that it breaks relative scale and consistent sizing of things. That might be due to the fact that designers who use GAH use their own individual GAH based on their personal observations. Therefore GAH comes in many sizes. There is no common GAH what every designer could use. One more thing: when a group of designers make a building together they could have hard time in deciding who's GAH to use as a measuring stick. (The again, GAH experts might have more positive ideas about GAH).

:smileytongue:

[ETA]

Corrected spelling error, in one place the GAH had transformed itself into a GAF. Weird!  What's going on here? :smileyindifferent:

[Ceka Cianci]

here is a thought....

 

you two could see that you both are never gonna get anywhere with each other and could just

Agree to Disagree...........

[Phil Deakins]

Ah. Thank you Coby. Did you make it up (GAH) or is it something that used in general?

Yes, I'm a GAHist but you know that anyway.

I'll give you an instance where RL matching simply won't work. It's a sofa. I make sofas with cuddle and sex animations in them. Some of the anims are full length, as I'm sure you appreciate. My RL sofas are bigger than average and I am not very tall - a mere 5'9½" now. (I used to be 5'10½"), but I can't lay full length (straight) between the arms. So, if I made SL sofas the same size as my longer than average RL sofas, even RL-sized avatars wouldn't be able to lay full length in a cuddle, for instance. Of course I could make cuddle anims with raised heads or feet, just for the sofas instead of being able to use the same anims in the beds, but I don't. What's the odd 12" on the length of a sofa, anyway

Incidentally, that's not an argument against RL sizes. It's just something to write because I love you 

[Phil Deakins]

We did that already - more than once

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

By all means scale things, but 1:1 does not work. It only works if you abandon the idea of RL-size rooms - which you've done anyway, so your RL-sized idea is already broken

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I can only LOL about this Phil. You agree that RL sizing would work in avatars and objects.

How does the thing that avatar is happier in larger room would break my idea in any way?

Your statement does not make any sense at all.

Your GAH sized avatar might need 2 times larger room than typical RL room is.

What makes you think that smaller avatar would need as large room as the big avatar?

Is it very hard for you to understand that small avatar would need smaller room than the big avatar?

Maybe you didn't undestand my room/furniture sizes comparisons at all for big and small avatar?

There must be something what you don't understand. And I don't undestand what is it.

 

Don't refer to the default camera view - what supposedly most might use. We can adjust it to a better one. Stating that because of the default camera view - RL sizing does not work is not a very sound argument. It's like saying "this car is broken because I don't know how to adjust the seat - it does not work for my size".

So what's left when you think "hey, the camera can be adjusted"?

Does the RL sizing work or not?

Don't argue something like "it doesn't work because everything is big already". That's not the point at all. As an experiment think that virtual world is totally empty and we are just laying out things. Would my idea work or not? That's the point of this thread.

 

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Ah. Thank you Coby. Did you make it up (GAH) or is it something that used in general?

---

Hehehe, I invented that short GAH explanation based on what you have said about general avatar heights and how to use that in creating content.

:matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

[Phil Deakins]

I'm teeing off shortly so this can't be a full reply to your post. I'll just answer that last bit for now.

The idea of RL sizes in an empty SL would work in exactly the same way is it works in the current SL. Avatars and furniture would work just fine, but room sizes must be bigger than RL because of the way we see. So your idea of having avatar and furniture sizes the same as RL, and having bigger rooms because of the way we see, would work just fine. We've never been in disagreement about that.

I can't stop to address the rest of you post just now. Sorry.

[Ceka Cianci]

 

OK you two leave me no choice!!

 

Now agree to disagree  and mean it or it's gonna get real messy in here.. i'm talking cheesecake  Everrrrywhere!! \o/

[Syo Emerald]

Wouldn't that create a silly look? The size of the furniture compared to the room would give it an empty and oversized feeling? It would require much more prims to make a comfortable feeling and even then, you wouldn't get rid of the sizedifference which would let the furniture look like its made for children.

[Coby Foden]

Now as everybody knows what GAH is, let's see how it works in collaborative building. (Take this as a joke. :smileyvery-happy:)

Ava1: We need to make building for a shop.

Ava2: Ok. Let's make it together to save time.

Ava1: Good. You make half and I make half.

Ava2: Would a layout of 40 m x 80 m be big enough?

Ava1: Meters! You must be kidding! They don't work in SL.

Ava2: What we use then?

Ava1: I have read that general avatar heights is the only reliable thing.

Ava2: Humm... and where do we get that height from (let's call it GAH).

Ava1: Well, there isn't any info about GAH anywhere.

Ava1: It has been said that we must go into world and observe a lot of avatars.

Ava1: After that we would have a good feeling what is the size of GAH.

Ava1: Then we can make our own avatars to the same height and use them for measuring.

Ava2: Hehe... avatars cannot be used as a measuring tape. LOL

Ava1: Silly! We don't actually measure with avatar. We eyeball and estimate sizes against it.

Ava2: I see. Let's go then and explore the world and observe avatars.

Ava2: Every day for some 5 hours each day for the duration of two weeks should be enough?

Ava1: Yes, that should be fine.

 

After two weeks...

 

Ava1: Hi. Everything ok?

Ava2: Everything went fine. I have a good estimation of GAH.

Ava1: Me too. :-)

Ava1: I have decided that the store layout should be 20 GAH x 40 GAH.

Ava1: So each of us must make 20 GAH x 20 GAH.

Ava2: Height for two storey building... hmm... 6 GAH should be ok.

Ava2: We should make also some furniture so customers can relax while shopping.

Ava1: Yes. Now we have all the info needed. Let's go and build.

Ava2: Let's meet here again after we are both ready with our building halves.

Ava2: We will link them together here.

Ava1: Hey, don't forget to adjust your height to the GAH before building!

Ava2: Nope. That's valuable info collected. :-)

 

When the building halves are ready...

 

Ava1: Ok, let's rez our building halves and link them. Here's mine.

Ava2: And here's mine. Let's move them next to each other.

Ava1: What the ...

Ava2: OMG! (@-@), They are not the same size!

Ava1: Did you adjust your height to the GAH you got from your observations?

Ava2: I sure did. Did you?

Ava1: Of course I did.

Ava2: But we are different heights. You are about half head taller than I am.

Ava1: Well, I mostly went to those crowded popular clubs to observe avatars. And you?

Ava2: Sailing places, various places. Not to clubs at all. What will we do now?

Ava1: We can resize either half to match the other one.

Ava2: Ok. Which half shall we resize then?

Ava1: It has been said that in SL big works better than small. So we resize the small one.

 

Before they have resized, enters one petite avatar...

 

Ava3: Hello guys. I came to see what you have here.

Ava1: Hi. Welcome. :-)

Ava2: Hi. Just ask if you need any assistance.

Ava3: Strange. Why half of the shop is bigger than the other half?

Ava1: I made the other half and Ava2 made the other half.

Ava2: We both used GAH as a reference for sizes.

Ava1: Here's a notecard what GAH is and how to obtain it.

Ava3: Hmm.. interesting. I've never before seen such bulsh.. (Oppss.. sorry, blushes..)

Ava3: Let's see inside?

Ava1: You're welcome. :-)

Ava3: Hmm.. even the furniture sizes are different. Did you notice?

Ava1: They are also made by using GAH as a reference.

Ava3: Did you both use your own estimations for GAH according to your individual observations?

Ava2: Yes, we did.

Ava3: Holy crap! Why didn't you combine the observations data and estimate GAH from that?

Ava1: The instructions didn't mention anything about combining observations.

Ava2: Besides there are designers all over SL. It's impossible to combine everybody's data.

Ava1: They should arrive to same GAH after collecting enough observation data.

Ava3: Hum... why didn't you use meters? Meter is exact, always the same length.

Ava1: Meters are irrelevant in SL. Meters don't work right here. GAH is the only thing that matters!

Ava3: I see, you guys obviously have studied things thoroughly?

Ava1: Thanks, we indeed have done so. :-)

Ava3: By the way, why the building is so huge?

Ava1: Everything in SL is big. That's the way it is and has always been – and will be.

Ava2: Because the building is based in GAH it naturally comes big because avatars are big.

Ava1: Yes, and big works better in SL than small.

Ava2: It has something to do with default camera location I think.

Ava1: It's mysteriously hidden in some obscure setting what people in general cannot find.

Ava1: So in general we are stuck with it and everobody have to learn to accept it.

Ava1: I have even heard that small avatars have difficulties in moving indoors.

 

Petite avatar is going upstairs...

 

Ava3: YOU'RE RIGHT. It's difficult for me to climb up these stairs.

Ava1: SEE, that's what I said!
Ava3: May I fly here?
Ava1: No flying here!

Ava1: If you flew from place to place here like a bat you would miss to see lots of things.

Ava1: We want customers to walk here, so they are sure to see everything.

Ava3: I wonder though that why I don't have any difficulties in my cosy place?

Ava3: Everything is based on meter and natural sizes.

Ava3: The house is bigger than what I could afford in RL. :-) It's not huge anyway.

Ava1: I think you are either hallucinating or dreaming in your place. Under heavy medication?

Ava1: It is impossible for builds and avatars based on meter and in RL sizes to work well in SL.

Ava1: It cannot work. SL is not built that way at all. It is not.
Ava2: SL is meant for BIG things, some even think ”the bigger, the better”.
Ava2: It's a pity that there is a limit how tall an avatar can be. :-(

Ava1: Nothing to worry, in mesh avatars there is no limit in size.

Ava2: Really? How very interesting. :-)

Ava1: I saw one female mesh avatar in one island. Standing 7.5 meters tall!

Ava1: That should make anybody happy! :-)) Available in Marketplace.

Ava3: !(@_@)!

Ava3: That'll be outdoors avatar only. It cannot get inside anywhere.

Ava3: You might consider taking one wall off from your building.

Ava3: At least then those giants will see inside and be able to buy something.

Ava3: Oh, you also might need to re-estimate your GAHs. ;-)

Ava3: In case if those avatars come popular...

Ava3: Ok, thanks guys. This was an amuzi... I mean interesting experience.

Ava3: I will go back to my place now – to dream that my place works ok.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

I decided to do some research to see what the actual de facto avatar scale in SL was. The way I did this was to measure objects I had that were intended for use by avatars and which were based on a real-life model and compare their dimensions to the RL versions. I measured six cars from six different makers, a pinball machine and a guitar. I came up with a scale factor of roughly 1.25:1. This would make a shape meant to represent a real-life female fashion model (minimum height 5'-10") about 7'-3" in SL and a 6'-5 professional athlete would be about 8 feet tall. These are pretty close to the common heights of traditional avatar shapes for the idealized body types popular in SL. It's also close to the hard limits for maximum avatar height using the system shape.

A consistent scaling system based on avatar heights would therefore mean that everything would be around 1.25 times real-life size. However, a RL room scaled up 1.25 times doesn't work significantly better than a 1:1 model due to the camera position. Built environments are usually significantly larger, quickly getting up to 2x life size. It's impossible to make a standard avatar twice natural size so even the large avatars will look too small in these larger rooms. As far as furniture goes it can be scaled either to the avatar scale, making it small for the room; the building scale, making it large for the avatars; or anywhere in between. Different makers will have different ideas about exactly how to scale things and none of these will be based on an actual measurement system.

I fail to see how this state of affairs could be considered to work "perfectly well."

Using RL sizes instead of arbitrarily scaled up ones for avatars would at least let the overall environment be reduced to about 80% of its current size while maintaining the current building proportions. As far as the camera position goes the camera offset is partially based on avatar height - a shorter avatar will have a lower default camera than a taller one. The "chase" position, which causes room footprints to need to be larger, won't change but room height can be reduced somewhat and height is the controlling factor in buildings with open floor plans.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Coby Foden wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

 

First. What does GAH mean?

---

Here goes,

short explanation of GAH method

: (:smileyvery-happy:)

 

 

---

This reminds me of a time I was in Court.  When asked where he had gotten his "facts," the witness replied, "I swagged it."

The Judge looked at the witness and with a puzzled look on his face queried, "Swagged it?"

The court room broke out in laughter when the witness replied, "Yeah, Scientific Wild Ass Guess."

But really, that is what has happened in SL because a consistent standard has not been used for building and avatar shapes.  A lot of swagging has gone on in the attempt to make everything fit together / look good.

 

[Coby Foden]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I'm teeing off shortly so this can't be a full reply to your post. I'll just answer that last bit for now.

The idea of RL sizes in an empty SL would work in exactly the same way is it works in the current SL. Avatars and furniture would work just fine, but room sizes must be bigger than RL because of the way we see. So your idea of having avatar and furniture sizes the same as RL, and having bigger rooms because of the way we see, would work just fine. We've never been in disagreement about that.

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Thank you very much. :smileyhappy:

That was the whole point of this discussion. I just forgot to start my thread with the statement about empty SL thing - and then continue with presentation of my idea.

Wow, it's fun to see that we do agree (in spite of some pointless misunderstandings on the way).

 

[Phil Deakins]

I'm back from golf now. I thoroughly enjoyed your play. I really did.

I won't now reply to the rest of your post that I didn't have time to reply to earlier because it seems that we've reached an agreement. Ceka will be delighted 

[Phil Deakins]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

Now agree to disagree  and mean it or it's gonna get real messy in here.. i'm talking cheesecake  Everrrrywhere!! \o/

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No need for us to agree to disagree, Ceka. The threat of cheesecake everywhere was too much for us to even contemplate, so we've reach an agreement.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

Part of that video reminds me that I didn't start the fire...

This video always brings back memories since I lived through (most) of it.

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wow i like that song!!

just imagine what it took for him to write that and for it all to make sense..

finding all that stuff then making it line up and work..

that's a really good song =)

 

[Czari Zenovka]

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

no i've heard it before.butit's been a good while..so i forgot about it..

i could swear it seemed like it was faster before..

that or maybe it was the first time i ever heard someone line up so much stuff in a row in a song that it just seemed like it was fast hehehe

 

i had to get the lyrics to offsprings song so i could see what it was about..

they are one of my faves..and they also have a way of talking about stuff that is right there in the middle point of view and not left or right..

i like that =)