Uzumaki Yue Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Is it really not possible to give new users BOTH options instead of forcing just one? There are too many alphanumeric drones, and SL doesn't feel like the "constant" world it used to feel like a few years back. I like the new 3rd party viewers, graphics update et cetera but why meddle with the one thing that was fine?Why won't LL listen to us who want to have the option to use last names? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but SL saw an enormous surge of new residents simply because it had the option of being free to play, and nothing to do with "people abandoning the registration page". I'll tell you what, I want to make an alt and I keep abandoning the registration page because they don't even allow me to have a username with a period in it (like john.smith), only terrible, outdated AOL style usernames with letters and numbers. Are we going backward?SL couldn't feel any less personal than it does now. I have no "freedom" by being forced to use a bad looking handle instead of a proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucagrabacr Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well, at least we can always change our display name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzumaki Yue Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Your username will always be visible, though. Last names made SL feel more like a virtual world, and it was one of the things that separated SL from its competitors at the time. I wish LL would stop hiding from this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Uzumaki Yue wrote: Are we going backward? Yes. Always backward & never forward. Think of it like a time travel. What genius it is! Seriously I agree last names should be allowed, it must be so simple to implement. If I was Linden I would do it. Easy way to make lots of people happy :catmad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzumaki Yue Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Sure seems like it. Even MMORPGs (the decent paid ones) don't use numbers for character names. In Final Fantasy XIV you actually need to pick both a first and a last name, same way as display names work on SL now but without those horrendous usernames. I planned on becoming premium but I don't want to use it on this account, and since I can't make an alt with a last name I guess I just won't become premium at all. Not that LL cares or anything, seeing as they don't even bother to tackle the last names issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 have to hunt thru the other threads about this to find the actual technical reason why cant have last names anymore am just repeating here what someone else said in another thread about last names seems like that in the names datatable is two values for name: 1) a field for your firstname 2) a ID (number) field for your lastname. the ID number is a lookup index into a separate lastname table is a number of ways can patch this. the simplest would be to put user-created lastnames into the existing lastname table and auto-index them on creation. problem with this tho is that as the table grows into millions then is scale issues + is quite a few other ways as well that can patch the existing way to make lastnames work. but doesnt really solve the scale problem only real way to do it, like do it proper, is to make a whole new other naming system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Some information came out some months ago on the subject in a blogpost from Rodvik Linden: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/Update-Last-Names-Roundtable/m-p/1409403 Basically, last names are gone (or will continue to be Resident) for new registrations. I don't know of any newer information regarding last names... - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Muni Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 There is a very active (and unattended, of course LOL) JIRA abou this: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7125 Hope never die hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orca Flotta Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I read Rod's reply now repeatedly since he first scribbled it down. And always have to shake my head over this hogwash. Spoken like a true CEO: many words completely missing the topic, sneaking around the pudding but never touching it. And then, shifting the blame in direction of the residents. The roundtable didn't come up with a solution? WTF? The roundtable didn't implement the one-name stuff. The roundtable doesn't have any obligation towards LL to help them solve their home-made problems. The roundtable was a discussion here in the forum I suppose, so it's made up from users/clients. What developer relies on the clients by figuring out ways out of their own mess? That's just so lame. LL should have done it before coming up with the new system. Then they would've learned that we don't want it, that it's crappy, that it's a nogo, that they could've saved a lot of manpower by implementing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzumaki Yue Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hence this thread, and the JIRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Short answer: Probably There was a long discussion on my.secondlife.com/Rodvik.Linden awhile back and there was a variety of opinions expressed. The only thing I dislike about display names is that some people make them very challenging to read with circles, backward and upside down characters. I DJ and like to greet patrons on mic. When I see a display name I cannot read, I greet them by their username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm figuring it also had something to do with not knowing what the heck to do with all those who registered since last names were cancelled, who now have the last name of Resident. - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronometria Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It's now so hard to choose a name that people are simply giving up during the process. This is also getting progressively harder with time as more and more name choices are taken. Even choices with numbers are starting to be rejected as having been taken. So if they are interested in making the sign up process easier, then second names should return. As it is, its putting people off and becomes worse each passing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What are you talking about? Anyone can have last names now. And middle names, clan names, titles, whatever they like. LL's biggest mistake is the wishy-washy, confusing presentation they've given the new name system. There's no reason to show usernames in the name tag. If someone sets a display name, then that display name is what they want visible, not the username they use to log in with. Unfortunately, with display names not being unique an identifier is necessary for certain transactions, so usernames are visible in those transactions already, no need to include them in nametags. Just confuses the issue. Second, LL currently does not inform new residents about display names. That's right, new users coming in sign up with a username limited on availability (limited moreso by the lack of forced surnames). If LL were smart about this they'd have new users select a display name either during registration or upon first login. Failing to address these issues is what leads to threads like this, prompted either by a lack of understanding of the current name system, or an outright oldbie curmudgeony defiance of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That's not to say that I think the current name system is ideal. I really don't, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be, it's just that it's presented so poorly by LL that it seems much worse than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzumaki Yue Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Exactly. It's easier to come up with a first name and pick a last name from a predefined list than to think of a new name altogether. Can't be "John"? Fine then I will be "John1", oh it's taken, how about "John894" - that's taken too. With the last names I can be John Smith, and if that's taken I can be John Rosenberg (for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzumaki Yue Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 You know that's not the point I'm discussing, so why bother even bringing that up? As I see it, the new name system wasn't needed. Oldbie curmudgeony (wut) defiance of change? There is good change and there is bad change, and some things don't need to change. That new naming system just made SL feel like There, but at least in There everyone have usernames like that so there is no clear division between new and old members. Do you enjoy seeing usernams like xXLongshizzle1991Xx? Even if you hide them, decent 3rd party viewers still show them if you untick "Show usernames", so I'd see "Hans Mcdoodle (xXLongshizzle1991Xx) has entered the region", and things like that. I don't mind any other changes made to SL, because this particular change made SL feel like another game. From my viewpoint it's a pointless and badly executed change, and I see no merit in it whatsoever except maybe making the lives of the LL techs easier (and if they came up with this, they probably don't even spend time on SL). Other than that I see no financial advantage in overhauling the naming system to something that was fashionable in the late 90's, so why not give the people who make SL possible what they want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Uzumaki Yue wrote: You know that's not the point I'm discussing, so why bother even bringing that up? As I see it, the new name system wasn't needed. Oldbie curmudgeony (wut) defiance of change? There is good change and there is bad change, and some things don't need to change. That new naming system just made SL feel like There, but at least in There everyone have usernames like that so there is no clear division between new and old members. Do you enjoy seeing usernams like xXLongshizzle1991Xx? Even if you hide them, decent 3rd party viewers still show them if you untick "Show usernames", so I'd see "Hans Mcdoodle (xXLongshizzle1991Xx) has entered the region", and things like that. I don't mind any other changes made to SL, because this particular change made SL feel like another game. From my viewpoint it's a pointless and badly executed change, and I see no merit in it whatsoever except maybe making the lives of the LL techs easier (and if they came up with this, they probably don't even spend time on SL). Other than that I see no financial advantage in overhauling the naming system to something that was fashionable in the late 90's, so why not give the people who make SL possible what they want? Isn't it? The old name system worked, but not perfectly. According to Rodvik Linden, the introduction of the new system has shown a very substantial uptick in completed new user registrations, the numbers posted by LL seem to confirm this. I know firsthand that being forced to choose a last name from a list kept me from signing up for about a year before I saw a surname I was satisfied enough to settle on. THAT'S A GOOD CHANGE! (Altho, as myself and others predicted, there has been no improvement to new user retention, so arguably LL's time would have been better spent on other issues.) If anything, your comments about usernames prove my point about LL's poor presentation. Usernames are account names, not avatar names. They're visible only as unique identification authenticators, which is needed since display names don't need to be unique, but even so you don't demand to see a person's driver's license every time you meet them in real life, just so you don't NEED to see usernames constantly in SL. If usernames were hidden by default and shown only during necessary transactions, complaints about usernames resembling AOL or There screen names wouldn't be an issue. That's a problem with LL's presentation, not the system itself. Likewise, that SOME third party viewers show them even if you choose not to have them displayed over everyone's head is a flaw with said third party viewers, not a problem with the system. I do agree that LL poorly executed this change, but it really could have been a change for the better. Sorry if I directed my snark at you, but your thread just continues to prove my point that LL has presented this new system extremely poorly, and it would have been much more easily embraced by the userbase had LL executed the presentation better. Even with that said I don't think this new name system would be perfect even presented better (but it would be arguably better than the old system in that case) just I find it far less likely LL will, or even could, change to a more ideal system this late in the game. LL needed to think things through better in 2002, before opening the doors to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Penny Patton wrote: ....There's no reason to show usernames in the name tag. If someone sets a display name, then that display name is what they want visible, not the username they use to log in with. Unfortunately, with display names not being unique an identifier is necessary for certain transactions, so usernames are visible in those transactions already, no need to include them in nametags. Just confuses the issue. STRONGLY Disagree. You can't use a display name to AR someone or deal with a griefer. Sure if you can see them you can bring up their profile but that's just adding an extra step when time is of the essence and you can't always see them. Also, some people change there display name and appearance making it difficult to recognize them without seeing their username. I will always set my viewer up to show usernames. I see display names too, and will address people with that name if it is readable and not obscene, but I will remember them by their username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: STRONGLY Disagree. You can't use a display name to AR someone or deal with a griefer. Sure if you can see them you can bring up their profile but that's just adding an extra step when time is of the essence and you can't always see them. Also, some people change there display name and appearance making it difficult to recognize them without seeing their username. I will always set my viewer up to show usernames. I see display names too, and will address people with that name if it is readable and not obscene, but I will remember them by their username. Usernames are easily visible whenever you need them. Trying to AR someone? It's right there. Sending inventory to someone? It's right there? In an IM conversation with someone? Username, right there at the top next to their display name. I'd go so far as to say you can't not see them when you need to. Showing usernames in the name tag by default is needlessly redundant and confusing to new users. Granted, I'm not arguing for the ability to show usernames, optionally, if you so want to, to be removed. I'm just saying that by default it is a mistake to have them shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 lucagrabacr wrote: Well, at least we can always change our display name. Except those of us that are not able to use the new viewers don't see them.* *(I'm not going into another explanation of "why" I can't use the new viewers...just accept that I can't....lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Overdrive Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Last names aren't really lost. You can have a display name with a first and last name. LL just needs to do a better job at explaining to new residents at sign-up the difference between the account / user name and the display names that can be used in-world. I too miss the last names, but really do not see them coming back anytime soon, if at all. Even though I completely support the return of last names, I decided to have a one name display name rather than my old first and last name. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Patton Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Czari Zenovka wrote: lucagrabacr wrote: Well, at least we can always change our display name. Except those of us that are not able to use the new viewers don't see them.* *(I'm not going into another explanation of "why" I can't use the new viewers...just accept that I can't....lol) Going to take you at face value that you can't. For a some of people, almost exclusively on underpowered hardware, the new viewers won't run or run so poorly as to be unusable. There's plenty of TPVs based on older viewer code which have imported some newer features. Pretty sure both CoolViewer and Phoenix support display names and most people unable to run new viewers seem to have good luck with these. And even if their post-mesh versions won't run for you, I'm fairly certain they've got older versions where display names were added before mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronometria Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I`ve recently been getting into giant snail racing, run by the charismatic Racerx Gulwing as a weekly treet tv event. The name issue comes up constantly there and it reminded me that even in this time of "display names", our display names arent really worth a thing. On the race scoreboard, i show up as "Chronometria resident", not Chrono Cogshine. On the nametag that marks my snail racer shell, again i show up with my resident title and login name. To all the items the commentators use to identify us, our logins are the only thing they see and it confuses them. Racer asked me "what do we call you?" and "what name do you want on the league table?". I said chrono, which is what people call me as my login name is usually too complex for them to pronounce. This question, however, was a very painful reminder that I and other residents with a so called "single name" are still not fitting into second life. They actually had to ask me what they should call me, as they didnt know. That, in itself, is a failure of a name, if people cannot understand it, or recognise it. This message board, for example, doesnt show my display name either and the sad thing is that in snail racing, i am the lucky one. What of the people who are "j46g28" and so on as their login? They dont even have a login that makes sense as a name and they make the scoreboard look a mess and the announcers have no idea what to call them as they race. I`d take resident as a surname, but there is always someone who turns up saying "its not a surname, you have no surname". Well, i do and that surname is resident and i want it recognised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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