What is everyone's thoughts about mesh clothing?

[Persephone Emerald]

"Should the development of Second Life's look and feel be stopped until all people can afford to buy faster computers which are able to to render all the present and future new features?"

No, of course not. Second Life should be made as detailed & feature-filled as possible for those who can afford the better computers. But there should also be options for users who can't afford the higher-end computers. If 90% of users can see SL in all it's beautifully detailed meshy glory, the 10 % who can't should be able to play along, seeing odd boxes, spheres & donuts along with the rest of the regular prim world.

[Peony Sweetwater]

I'm not ready to go out in mesh clothing for all of those reasons already mentioned. But I'm hoping it won't be too long before the worst of the bugs in the new viewers are ironed out and mesh viewers become more popular.

 

As a dress designer I'm working on mesh designs alongside my more traditional clothing - I think there will be a good market for both the traditional prim & sculptie clothing as well as newer mesh types. For now I'm just testing what I can and can't make work in mesh, but it will be a little while before I release any mesh clothing for sale. Personally, I don't want to release ANY mesh clothing for sale until I can rig the mesh to fit people's shapes, not just their bones.

[JoJo Aurelia]

My thoughts: So far I don't like it. I don't want to change my avatar size. I have one size for my built in mesh skirts, but that's it, I just saved it as Shape for Skirts. But changing the avatar all the time is a sure way to lose your original shape. I did write down all the numbers and have a back up, but please... I'm also a designer and it's all Greek to me. They're working on a better system of wearing mesh, and I'll wait, but, I prefer flounce skirts and dresses, not form fitting. Also many shapes are not modifiable!

[Ember Hanly]

As with a lot of other's replys I love the idea of mesh, but not the current exicution of the product. The ability to have dresses move with you and bend with your legs is fantastic, but the fit issue is really my only issue.

Coming from a user who was dead set on staying away from the new SL viewer after beta testing the first version and finding myself not enjoying my time at all -- I switched just to explore the new Mesh clothing. I now have both SL3 & Phoenix and my SL experience hasn't changed much between the two viewers as far as the basics of being able to travel around inworld with ease unlike before.

SL has changed so much since I signed up, which wasn't too long ago - only a little less than two years, and I'm embracing all changes and hoping for the best. The fact that so many designers are already having their try with the new Mesh abilty blows my mind and I tip my hat to them all.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

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Lyra Blackthorne wrote:

 

 While mesh is in infancy, have not yet seen anything mesh that generated a "wow, this is sooo much better than what I already have"

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^ This ^

[Coby Foden]

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Persephone Emerald wrote:

"Should the development of Second Life's look and feel be stopped until all people can afford to buy faster computers which are able to to render all the present and future new features?"

No, of course not. Second Life should be made as detailed & feature-filled as possible for those who can afford the better computers. But there should also be options for users who can't afford the higher-end computers. If 90% of users can see SL in all it's beautifully detailed mesh glory, the 10 % who can't should be able to play along, seeing odd boxes, spheres & donuts along with the rest of the regular prim world.

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Persephone, I totally agree to that :womanhappy:. My earlier post was meant to give something to think about for all those viewer V2/V3 and mesh haters :matte-motes-evil:. I'm all for any graphical enhancements to Second Life - mesh, better shaders, bump maps, shadows, cloth physics, hair physics, enhanced avatar mesh, whatever which enhances the look and feel of SL - all welcome. I enjoy seeing beauty (who doesn't?).

I hope that Linden Lab would enhance the mesh clothing rigging as soon as possible. All present problems in rigged clothes would vanish. Somebody even has made a detailed list what problems would be solved with "Parametric Deformer and Layer System": http://images.plurk.com/2767af6225257672540d14ef94a30a43.jpg  If this was done then the mesh clothing really would become the major mesh application target in SL. Crossing my fingers... :smileyhappy:

PS.

Viewer V2/V3 haters: It's different, the UI design is "out of this world". But it's learnable and it's usable (if your computer can run it). It just takes some effort to learn the different UI. Why not give it real try? Two minutes is not enough... :smileytongue: Use it for many days. Besides Linden Lab viewer there are third party viewers (like Firestorm) with a lot better design and features.

 

My computer cannot run V2/V3 viewer sayers: There are now some third party V1 viewers which can render mesh. Why not give them a try? (Cool VL viewer, even Radegast has now graphics which can render all present SL features).

 

I love my old V1 viewer and I don't want to upgrade: Well, it's your choice, which baffles me... :matte-motes-agape:

 

My computer is very old and cannot run SL properly with any viewer: Time to save money and upgrade! Nothing else can be done. Sorry.

Hint for enjoyable SL experience: The faster and the more resourceful your computer is, the less problems there will be in SL. Few months ago I upgraded mine. Now the viewer based lag is almost non existent. I have high frame rates with all the graphics upped. I hardly ever crash with any viewer. A huge difference compared to my old computer in which viewers crashed ever so often.

[Ashton Colter]

I have a few hopes for Mesh clothing.

 

First, I'm loving the fact that, although I have to edit my shape a bit, I can wear clothes that stretch across the breasts as opposed to look like they're painted on them.  This could look exceptionally good for period gowns that typically are worn over corsets (ie Baroque and Victorian gowns).

Also, I'm hoping (though have yet to see any) that large mesh gowns like mid-Victorian era hoop skirted gowns look great with mesh.  Some designers are good about the flexiprims in their gowns, but I find that most designers have too much 'flow' in the gowns, so that when you're walking it looks like they're moving through water.

 

 

[Marymac Dougall]

It has been shown that technology advances about two times as almost anything else in the real world. Some people try to save money when buying a computer that will barely stay alive for four or five years and by then it is outdated. Meanwhile, other developments take place in software that requires changes in hardware. It is a universal situation. The only way around that is to get a computer is more than is the norm at first then it can cope with the advances in technology. It is almost sure to be a bigger problem if the computer is a laptop that might be great at first but the upgrades on a laptop are limited and aren't meant for such demanding graphics...not usually. Some laptops might pull it off but they will demand more of a price at the beginning. Keeping and expecting a computer to run well for a number of years is avoiding the reality of a tough bit of news. The moment of purchase of a computer would be coupled with a dedication to begin saving for the next computer because that is the reality of reality. 

[Coby Foden]

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Marymac Dougall wrote:

... Keeping and expecting a computer to run well for a number of years is avoiding the reality of a tough bit of news. The moment of purchase of a computer would be coupled with a dedication to begin saving for the next computer because that is the reality of reality. 

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Indeed, this is the unavoidable fact of things. People should realize and understand this fact. Asking that every computer what people are using should be able run SL viewers perfectly is like saying "Why my old T-Ford cannot go as fast as modern cars? Darn, the manufacturer really should do something about it!"

Only fast enough computers will serve some years in graphics intensive programs, before it's time to upgrade again. Upgrading is a never ending cycle, that's how it goes. Buying a low spec computer which really wasn't meant to run such programs is a waste of money and leads to disappointment. Besides, a low spec computer even shortens the time span when it's a must to upgrade again. So, buying "a bit too fast" more expensive computer is actually saving money as there is no need to upgrade so often.

[Wildcat Furse]

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Kylie Jaxxon wrote:

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Lyra Blackthorne wrote:

 

 While mesh is in infancy, have not yet seen anything mesh that generated a "wow, this is sooo much better than what I already have"

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^ This ^

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I agree!! *meows*

[Leander Philbin]

Personally, as an "early adopter" I want to see mesh succeed.  I've tried a mesh tee and two pairs of mesh pants, and, along with the corresponding alpha layers, the've fit with very minimal changes to my avi.  However, based on this thread and others, mesh is pretty much DOA for clothing until LL implements shape sliders.

 

As for people not wanting to use mesh because so many are reluctant to move to viewer 3,  every program has minimum requirements, and as the program evolves, those requirements change, either adapt or die.  If you "can't afford to upgrade", eventually your computer will become obsolete.  Ask for a 2nd hand video card for Christmas if nothing else.  I would've killed LL V1 a long time ago, leaving TPV to pick up the slack if they wanted.

[Trix Braveheart]

For those here who commented about fit, maybe you would like to check out a thread dealing with sizes, here...

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Mesh-clothing-sizes/td-p/1097619

I'm sure your input would be appreciated and you could see what others are doing to try to deal with the issue.

All sizes of RL clothing don't fit everyone the same and it does cover up your shape. Nonetheless, well designed clothes are attractive.

[Siss Criss]

"The ranks of the nation's poor have swelled to a record 46.2 million -- nearly 1 in 6 Americans -- as the prolonged pain of the recession leaves millions still struggling and out of work. And the number without health insurance has reached 49.9 million, the most in more than two decades."

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/09/nearly_1_in_6_americans_live_i.html

I hear you but I can't agree with you. The freedom and the potential to creative connection with people all over the world is what makes it for me and I would prefer to have an inclusive SL than the perfect look (I do spend a lot of time and money on dressing my pixeldoll, though).

Already there's a visible thinning of interesting builds and rented properties around the grid. If this economic 'natural' selection erodes SL too much, what's left won't be worth a computer upgrade.

About mesh.. the potential is fantastic but I put my voice behind the peeps who's raised the shape issue. My gender puts the vast majority of mesh clothing un-wearable for me and I simply refuse to morph.

[Coby Foden]

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Siss Criss wrote:

About mesh.. the potential is fantastic but I put my voice behind the peeps who's raised the shape issue. My gender puts the vast majority of mesh clothing un-wearable for me and I simply refuse to morph.

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Linden Lab are well avare of the present problem with rigged clothes and they are looking into it. There is JIRA about this matter here: Request for Rigged Mesh Parametric Deformer

 

So, we do have hopes to get better mesh deformer for clothing. There is a great potential for mesh clothing market when rigged mesh conforms to all shape changes. I'm sure that Linden Lab will not ignore such potential and will do something about it. :matte-motes-smile:

 

[Mayalily]

No, I think the new mesh clothing is horrid.  It looks like someone rumpled a piece of tissue paper to give it a rumpled fabric effect and stuck a bow on it as belt and some sleeves, and then tinted it a color.  The construction of what is available free, I wouldn't even want for free.   Also, other's in group chat I've talked to, said no way would they even want any of the free mesh clothes on SL right now...so it's not just me.  I haven't met one person inworld who says they like the free mesh clothes currently on Marketplace. 

Please keep making clothing the way it's always been; about 95% or more seem to prefer it that way from whom I've talked to.

Also, I think SL is trying to get rid of prim clothes and make SL more like IMVU.  With less prims in the outfits, SL can have very small sims like the "rooms" on IMVU.  I've already noticed that some clubs springing up are getting smaller and smaller.  As mesh clothing comes along, I think SL will have very small clubrooms and be more like IMVU and very "claustrophobic".  But, with mesh clothes, it could stand to reason, these clubs are just going to get smaller and smaller.   Maybe so, maybe not.  But, the mesh and very little prims to the ugly clothes is there for a reason(?)  I doubt it will get rid of lag... I think it's just going to make for tinier land rental space. 

 

[Coby Foden]

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Mayalily wrote:

No, I think the new mesh clothing is horrid.  It looks like someone rumpled a piece of tissue paper to give it a rumpled fabric effect and stuck a bow on it as belt and some sleeves, and then tinted it a color.  The construction of what is available free, I wouldn't even want for free.

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Mesh, sculpties, prims: all can be horrid. All of them can be very beautiful too. It's just what designer is capable and willing to do. Mesh itself as just does not set any limitations how detailed and good looking it can be. In fact it gives more possibilities for the designer. Texturing one's design is a real art. It takes a long time to master it well. Painting mesh with a single color is not art, it's just a quick hack.

There are already great looking mesh items and clothes in the grid. Some are even free. Maybe you have not seen them; only the not so well made ones perhaps?

I made a simple rigged miniskirt in Blender. I'm just learning Blender but the miniskirt was fairly easy to make anyway. To my eyes this looks a lot better and realistic miniskirt than those horrid miniskirts where one has to wear the terrible prim or sculpty between ones legs. What do you think?

[Trix Braveheart]

I completely agree about the skirt. I made it my first project too. And, the skirt looks great without the extra little prim that is often hard to get textured the same as the outfit. Lowcut tops also sweep properly. Mesh will not replace everything, giggles, you just can't get skin tight jeans any other way. 

Most designers are sure to unwrap the mesh and paint it in PS or Gimp. Mesh offers so many options, in the skirt I designed I added a skinny belt with a buckle and it is possible to actually make it proud of the skirt...it seems a little thing and the effect visible only up close, but, think of all the hours you've spent fitting  belts or sleeves or cuffs. 

I wish we had movement, but, some designers have done a marvellous job of making some long skirts seem to flow. Maybe someday.

[Mayalily]

@ Coby, I will agree about the mini skirts and the little patched item that fits as a prim and doesn't quite blend in, is not that great of a look for mini skirts.  So yes, after seeing this picture, I will agree I love the look without the patch that doesn't fully blend in!  What I'll be looking for is a black leather mini skirt, cuz this black leather mini skirt I have I just love, but I don't like the fact that when I bend over it looks like a rubber hose is between my avatars legs.   So, to avoid that, I can only dance with no bending whatsoever or else it just looks too weird. 

When I get time, I will post a picture of my favorite black leather mini skirt in the wanted section and see if anyone can make the design. 

Is that top mesh?  I must say it has a better fit than most I've seen.

ETA:   A question.  Let's say someone wants to splurge on something they love such as a black leather mini skirt and have it custom made to their avatar's shape, can that be done?  A custom sizing in mesh?  I'd probably only want a few items custom made to my avatar's shape and I'm sure it would be a little "pricey", but can it be done?  Custom made to fit? 

Also, mesh clothes are lacking in seams.  If I bought a mesh black leather mini skirt, I'd like seams and seams for the zipper area.  Can seam textures be added to the mesh clothing?  I'd like to see some seaming to make mesh look less like a tube dress or skirt and less like a 2-hour pattern dress from Joanne's that hardly has any seams or details.  I prefer more detailed and seamed clothing.  Mesh can't seem to provide that for me, yet.  Mesh seems to be lacking in detail. 

Next, I don't want to wear mesh in clubs when people are on other viewers because my avatar will look weird or half nekkid to them.  I don't understand that part?  We are not allowed to be nekkid in (most) clubs.  I think "au naturale parties" are invitation only. 

 

[Coby Foden]

Hi Mayalily, glad to hear that you liked the simple miniskirt. Mesh suits best for tight garments, tight miniskirt is one example. Long pants, shorts, tops, jackets, shoes, boots, bikinis, etc. For the fluffy flowing gowns, skirts. etc mesh is not suitable, flexi prims work best for those. In all, mesh has many uses in clothing.

The top I was wearing on the photo is not mesh, it's just ordinary textured top. However it would be perfectly possible to make that kind top in mesh and texture it just like the one in the picture. In fact the mesh top would be more realistic one when well made.

It is possible to export ones own avatar mesh, the exact shape what you have in SL. Then one can import that shape to design program (Blender for example) and then make exactly fitting mesh clothes for that avatar shape. That's how I made the skirt, fitting exactly to my own shape. The great advantage is that I can wear normal panties under the skirt, no alpha is needed under it to hide any body parts. One can export ones own avatar shape with Phoenix viewer.

So if you want something custom made and have some photos of the thing what you want, a skilled designer can make it in mesh for you. (I cannot do it yet as I'm a newbie in learning Blender... :smileywink:)

About seams: Yes indeed, seems can be made to mesh clothes. One can make textured seams. One can even create the seams by actually modeling them in the mesh. Create a zipper in mesh and texture it realistically. It can be done. Mesh can be simple, it can be very detailed too. The texturing can be simple, and it can be very detailed. It's just up to the designer. Mesh itself has no limitation for detail.

[Siddean Munro]

All I ask is that people give the content creators of SL a chance to settle in and get comfortable with what they can and can't do in the new technology.  Forming an opinion on what is currently available (which are a LOT of copies of a certain subset of a certain designer's fullperm templates) is fine, but don't judge us all on their standards please.  Some creators will come up with beautiful, innovative, detailed designs, when they find their sea legs, so to speak.  we're not all buying mesh templates and putting textures on them.  But it's new, and we are still learning how it all goes together.  Plus, these creations take time.   That's all

[Ashton Colter]

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Coby Foden wrote:

. For the fluffy flowing gowns, skirts. etc mesh is not suitable, flexi prims work best for those. In all, mesh has many uses in clothing.

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Rats.  I was so hoping that mesh would bring out some amazing bustle/crinoline gowns.

Can I then ask the designers to PLEASE consider making the flexiprims more responsive in large gowns?  So often I see a designer with excellent textures but then the gown itself feeeeeelllllllssssss liiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkeeeeeeee itttttttttsssssssss fllllllllllloooooooooowwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg innnnnnnnnnn waaaaaaattttttttteeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr....

 

 

 

[JoJo Aurelia]

Tonight I was at a local jazz club and a lady was in mesh dress, but to me and most of the ppls there, she was naked from the top up, while her mid section was invisable, and she had a big blob attached to her. I told her she was exposed to most of the attendees, and she told me to embrace technology, and got kinda mad at me for pointing out her nipples. The thing was, the guy next to me was enjoying the view. I don't know what the rules are going to be, but to me, going out in mesh to high traffic areas that have dress codes is risky business at this point, until everyone is viewing mesh at the same time. I realize  now I should have minded my own business, but I was just trying to point out that she was exposed. Oh well... Guess this is the wave of the future.

[Jesica Dragovar]

I got a mech dress and tried it on, the first time I sat down and the skirt did not hang straight through my legs and the chair I was hooked

 

ideally I can't wait for some maternity shaped mesh outfits and a way to eliminate the need for the alpha but other than that I love em

[Rush Nicholls]

I hate mesh clothing. Yes, you are exactly right about either looking like a teletubby or a bean pole. Especially if you are a guy. I have a big avi, big butt and legs and I hate how my avi looks in it. Also, it takes all the fun out of the fun of putting together seperates and creating your own unique outfits. So that and not being able to resize are big cons to mesh clothing and I am not impressed with it so far whatsover.

[Coby Foden]

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Rush Nicholls wrote:

I hate mesh clothing.

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You do, do you?  Ain't this great?

 

My friend looks very happy in his mesh pants, mesh belt, mesh shirt, mesh tie.  The outfit includes also mesh jacket.  He looks absolutely great in it.  All the items are modifiable, so he can change the colour to his liking.  He's got white pants too, on which the colouring works great.  Naturally one cannot adjust the size of rigged mesh items.  But he was able to find the size which suits his shape very well.  When you compare the suits made with the old method (painted on the skin ones, with silly jacket lower prim/sculpty part) to the mesh ones, the old look like crap.  Mesh clothing looks very realistic.  Excellent!  :matte-motes-big-grin:

 

How about this mesh dress?