Annie Melson Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've been checking out mesh clothing, and starting the process of learning how to make mesh myself as I am a clothing designer, but I have to admit that I have very mixed feelings about mesh clothing. I see some cool things about it, but then I also see negatives. I like the textures and ease with them, and how simple it is to wear, but one major downside that I have found so far is that it makes my AV look either puffy or super skinny, and I'm not liking that. What do you think??Do you like mesh clothing? Or do you still like the "old" way of wearing clothes with sculpted attachments? What's your thoughts? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambergris Baphomet Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I'm sort of on the fence myself. I see some amazing stuff already coming out, and even beautiful full perm templates available for those of us (ok me!) not able to function well in Blender. I think if each creator looks carefully at what they want to create mesh-wise, and see that its advantages are more than the disadvantages - when making the same thing the regular way, they can't really go wrong. For me, its more a matter of will my customers (current and future) want to buy/wear mesh clothing or not. I guess I'll send out some polls and ask them myself I still like the regular way of making/wearing clothing, I don't think mesh will replace that, but be incorporated into it - like sculpties were - as simply other options available for people to create/wear in SL. I'm still poking along at the edges of mesh, and haven't jumped in full force yet: but I've been around a long time, and I do try to keep up with the new stuff coming out. And any outlet for my creativity is a plus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've just started trying on some mesh clothes & as a whole I like them. As with any process, it's going to take creators a while to get used to it & learn how to do it well. But a mesh dress or skirt can look so much more realistic than a prim one. Just look at the difference between sitting in a typical prim skirt vs. a mesh one or between walking in a typical long system skirt vs. a mesh one. I think creators need to make mesh clothing in at least 3 sizes & include corresponding alpha layers. "Small", "medium" & "large" work ok, but I found one outfit with "curvy", "average" & "model" size designation, which I thought were more descriptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Vuissent Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I love the way they look and the way they move. I hate the way they fit. I don't want to have to adjust my avatar to wear mesh clothing, so it's a little disappointing in that respect. Overall, I'll wear them if I find something I really like, but I have to really like it in order to spend $L on it. I don't like how rigid mesh hair is, so overall I'll most still wear prim and system clothing, with the occasional mesh or part mesh outfit. But I do love to see what people have come out with for mesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Melson Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 I thought I would show some pictures of my AV to show the differences mesh makes in my appearance. Albeit, the pics don't show the real look and feel of the clothing, but it gives an idea of it anyway. I picked the best looking mesh I found so far so people wouldn't think I just picked a badly created one. This one is Buttercups mesh hoodie and really this creater did an incredible job on it! The texturing is fabulous and the detailing is top notch. Love it! But I have to change my shape size in order for it to look good on my AV. I don't know if I'm really keen on changing my shape. I like my shape, but with my original shape the mesh clothing makes it look overweight, when it is far from that. This picture is my original shape with the regular clothing: Here is that very same shape with the mesh hoodie on. It looks like I gained weight instantly, and not in a good way at all. This is the smallest size that was given of the hoodie. Of all of the outfits I tried on, I tried on the smallest version. (The pic doesn't show the actual puffy look it gives my AV because the movement of my AOs shows it. It's actually puffier. But my arms show the largeness. It's like that all the way around.) And here is the mesh hoodie with my shape adjusted. The hoodie size now looks good, but I think my legs looks too thin. Could I get used to it? Sure, but it's not really my shape, and I'd have to keep changing my shape size to fit whatever mesh clothing I am wearing at the time. I don't know if I'm wanting to do that. Now if I wore mesh jeans with the mesh top my shape would probably look like my original shape, but good golly, I better not be seen naked or my AV would look sickly! LOL! The jacket I bought makes me look worse. It is large on my frame, and it was the smallest version I put on too. It's like I'm wearing my husband's jacket.I have nothing negative to say about this jacket though. It is textured beautifully, and I love the different texture options I can choose from. My normal shape with the jacket. Again, the pic doesn't show the actual largeness it is, but gives you the idea: And when I alter my shape so the jacket looks like it fits better, but again, I think my legs look too thin: Even still, I'm very torn on it all. I like them, but then I don't. I just don't know. I think it's a good idea to put out a poll in my group to see what my customers want. That was a great suggestion! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Melson Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Exactly, Ariel! I love the way it looks and moves, but not the fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceera Murakami Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The concept of mesh clothing and Mesh avatars is wonderful. LL's implementation of the concept is severely flawed. Mesh clothing won't go mainstream until Mesh can be designed and imported in a way that adapts to the entire avatar's appearance slider settings, and not merely the subset related to avatar bone lengths. There's too much variety in body shapes for clothing designers to be forced to offer clothes that only fit a very specific set of apperance slider settings, and require masking out all or part of the avatar's actual shape to force the items to fit. No matter how cute the shoe is in RL, I'm not cutting off a toe to wear it, just because it only comes in narrow widths. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikita Jefferson Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 perhaps we should get that loon person to give us some guidelines as to what is acceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalia Heckroth Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Meh...We will see with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I always have to mod the clothing I buy because my avi is smaller than average all the way around. I'm very particular about fit and won't wear any clothes that don't fit perfectly. I don't even like resize scripts because they only make things larger or smaller. If your avi is small and slender your sol with most resize scripts unless you can adjust everything on xyz axis. Even that's a pain since being a builder I can mod things better and faster using edit tools. Sizes aren't going to cut it with me either. I made my own shape and doubt any 'size' is going to fit like clothes I can completely mod. I refuse to have to buy or mod my shape just to fit clothes either. I took a long time with my avi so it looks attractive and like a real body not some fantasy pinup. Why would i buy a shape that makes me look like hundreds of other avi's? IF I can find mesh clothes that actually fit me right then I would buy them. But i don't see that happening anytime soon, and i'm not going to spend hundreds of lindens buying clothes only to find they don't fit because then they are worthless to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura18 Streeter Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I would have to agree. I love mesh and am buying it, but it doesn't work for everything. While I'm used to changing my shape, most times my shape isn't even visible - the concept of alpha layer hides it. As a model I've spend long hours tuning my shape to make it the way I want. I appreciate designers who make several sizes - but you would think a mesh outfit would adapt to a mesh avatar. And the whole alpha bit is rather annoying especially if you have 2 mesh pieces worn. There are some issues, but I think it will be a new part of what we wear, not a replacement. So far I'm having fun with it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I took some pictures of two of my avatars wearing one of the better mesh demo dresses on SL Marketplace. The feeling I have about mesh clothing is that it's more like RL clothing in a couple of ways. One is that it can move with your avatar's body better than system or prim clothing can. Another is that you have to try it on to be sure it will fit your particular body shape. If you're thinking of buying mesh clothing, be sure to try on the demo outfits first. Alycia wearing a model-sized dress without & with the appropriate alpha layer: Alycia wearing the same dress in the average & curvy size. Persephone wearing the same dress in curvy-size without & with the appropriate alpha layer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Melson Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I tried on that very same demo dress and it didn't fit my AV at all, not even when I made my shape thinner. The arms stuck out through the sleeve part. I want mesh clothing to work because I love how it moves with the AV and looks more natural, but as of right now I'd have to completely change my body shape in order to do it. I made my own shape and am quite fond of it. And I have found most people do not want to change their shape, even if they think it is for "improvement." (But that's a whole different subject.) The point is that people like their shapes. I saw another thread hear about a JIRA out saying that mesh clothing should respond to all slider values and not just the skeletal ones, but on their own values, not the AV shape (like with the SL mesh skirt and system clothing layers.) I completely agree. Then you can change the clothing to fit your AV and not have to change your AV shape every time you change clothing. Like all things, it takes time to improve things, so I'm having hope that in time it will get better and become a very successful part of SL. As of right now, though, I'm still vey torn on the mesh clothing.... It needs a lot of work, but they are also so very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Kraus Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I have a few mesh dresses and I love them , I have no problem changing my shape if need be. so far the biggest problem I have come across is being asked to leave certain areas because I appear half dressed to people who refuse to upgrade to a new viewer. one person went so far as to try and report me, but that's to be expected The second life community as a whole has never been very good with change. They really need to fix the coding somehow so people can view mesh on all viewers or simply disable the old viewers, since they will soon be obsolete anyhow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It's really not fair or economically sensible for Linden Lab to disable old viewers just so people with better computers will be happy. Many people can not afford to upgrade to a newer computer or better video card. And any tactic that forces people who want to use Second Life out of it would be suicide for Linden Lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Vuissent Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It would be nice if people would be intelligent enough to realize that the person around "half naked" with a "donut" attached to his/her body is, in fact, wearing mesh clothing. They're not actually half, naked; they just appear that way to anyone not on a mesh viewer. Since many people can't realize this, you get a lot of idiots banning or AR'ing people who do wear mesh. It's the sad truth. The other side of this issue might look something like this: "It would be great if LL would fix the code so mesh would work on all viewers, or disable mesh altogether so that I don't have to see weird-looking, half-naked people walking around PG sims. My computer can't run a new, mesh-enabled viewer, but I love this game. It sure does suck that I can't see the great new clothes and have to deal with half-naked people because I can't afford an upgrade." I do wish more people could see mesh clothing, since I've come across a few dresses that I love, but feel weird walking around wearing them knowing that half or more of the people I'm around see me partially naked and wearing a donut, and strangely deformed to boot! But it is what it is. I wonder - what happens if you wear something, like a T-shirt or a bra and panties, under a mesh outfit? Obviously the alpha layer and mesh outfit would cover it to anyone who can see mesh - but would it help mesh users not to appear half dressed to those users who can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Haven, I do not like and will not use the SL V3. I have tried it. Its not because i don't like change, but because its not stable and the UI is horrible especially if your an advance user. I will more than be happy to use a viewer that is acceptable when one becomes available. Most of my friends feel the same way. And as pointed out in an earlier post, not everyone can run V3 because they can't afford to upgrade their computers. Fortunately I have a brand new computer that is more than capable of running it but a great many of the people I know who tried it can't. This is another reason I probably won't jump into mesh clothes. Since the majority of people can't see them correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trix Braveheart Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Mesh looks very nice for some things, like that nasty little prim piece that never seemed to have the exact colour or texture of the rest of the skirt. It also looks great in a top where the fabric flows more naturally over the breasts. But, for skin tight things that show off your shape, stick with paint, smiles. I can see it especially once sizes become more uniform or available becoming something for special bits of your clothing, like a long evening gown or a short pencil skirt...things that have been difficult in the past and requiring pants under gowns. It unfortunately does not flow. So, for me, in some situations it is going to be nice to have. Regular clothing and prims will still form a very big part of my wardrobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Melson Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 That brings up a whole other aspect to creating mesh clothing - others not seeing them and appearing naked. As a clothing designer this seems likened to shooting oneself in the foot. You've spent time, effort, and money creating the mesh clothing and half - if not more - of the people online won't be able to see it. It sounds like the best thing to do as a designer is to hold off on creaing mesh clothes until it is more user friendly or the other viewers are obsolete. But then I feel for those who can't afford to upgrade to the viewers that include mesh. This is not a good thing. It certainly won't help LL or it's economy to lose many users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Vuissent Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 As time goes on, I can see mesh becoming a special sort of "niche," perhaps. Maybe a few people will create some good mesh hangouts (I believe there might be one or two started already?), where those who use mesh can go and be in the company other others who use mesh, without worrying that half the people there see them naked. Those who wander in without mesh would be the minority, so those using mesh wouldn't have to change or be reported. Could be interesting. We'll see, I suppose. I'm still on the mesh fence For now, I've found some great mesh dresses, and I'll wear them when I want, but I haven't found a mesh top that I like yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trix Braveheart Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 /me smiles yes, I did sit in a club the other night, a large void south of my navel and a lovely checkered ball in my hand for nearly everyone else there. It's a great skirt, but, for now only about 25% of the people got to see the look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tako Absent Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I think the cons of mesh clothing are these: -You can't resize it inworld so it's like you bought a free size RTW product in real life -and because you cant resize it, parts of the alpha texture is visible special when you are wearing a tube.. our hallow avatar is very exposed -until now not everybody is using a mesh ready viewer so you end up wearing a big tire or doughnut to others;) pros: - Who doesnt want a rigged dress specially skirts?? -I might be wrong with this but it's easier to rezz since you are wearing a single piece compare to a sculpted prim that sometimes one part of the whole item wont rezz ( like shoes with sculpted toes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coby Foden Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Persephone Emerald wrote: It's really not fair or economically sensible for Linden Lab to disable old viewers just so people with better computers will be happy. Many people can not afford to upgrade to a newer computer or better video card. And any tactic that forces people who want to use Second Life out of it would be suicide for Linden Lab. Which arises the question: Should the development of Second Life's look and feel be stopped until all people can afford to buy faster computers which are able to to render all the present and future new features? And for how long time? One year, two years, five years, or even more? There will always be people with older lower end computers which will not be able to render things properly. Is it feasible to stop development because of that? Second Life looks rather cartoonish at present. Are we satisfied with it? And for how long? Or would we like to see it rendered more realistically perhaps? Would we like clothes that acted like real clothes do? And hair which acted like real hair does? Such features do need fast computers, nothing can be done about it. Maybe Linden Lab should develop a code which would automatically render invisible everything what the user's computer could not handle properly. :smileysurprised: :smileytongue: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Little Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I am tecnically challenged. Talk to me about computer specs and graphic, and I will just not get 99% of what you are saying. But more savvy people than me, who I trust, ensure me that mesh will give a better CPU and be less hard to load than sculpts and prims. So people with old computers should welcome mesh, not hate it. I see that it loads quick for me, and I don't have a gamer machine. Over to the viewer issue... many who hate V3 give me reasons that have been solved. Some haven't tried V2 since the sidebar crunched the SL screen, and use that as an argument. Not in this thread yet, but I have heard it in other arguments. It is TPV's out there who is able to show mesh, you are not forced to use V3 in any way. I am a middleaged woman with not much education, in a job that demands more of my muscles than my brain. But I switch between several viewers without much trouble. I don't break down because things are different. I honestly don't understand why some are so bound to one viewer, only one viewer? Of course I see things that irritate me, but that goes for most viewers. And the TPV's include AO and radar, at least some do. And a lightweigt AO or radar is so terrible to use, you can't switch viewer because of that? Some TPV's even include Restrained Love, what is the problem? I can just vote with my vallet, so I buy mesh to encourage designers to put out more. LL will hopefully solve the no modify issue, but not if mesh becomes a niche product that nobody uses. So far I have bought mesh boots, mesh skirts, mesh pants, mesh bag, mesh faun legs, mesh dresses.... And just get used to it, mes is here to stay. Look another way, ignore it, but it will not go away now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyra Blackthorne Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 At least today I have no interest in mesh 1. Will not change avie just to fit a clothing item. But, I also do not buy no/mod prim clothing... and a resizer imo does not qualify as mod. Like with a resizer, mesh comes in "bigger" but just having an item cover my body does not mean it "fits" 2. While mesh is in infancy, have not yet seen anything mesh that generated a "wow, this is sooo much better than what I already have" 3. Cannot use in my shop for styling; even if I made the avie fit the item, more than 50% of my clients do not use a V3 viewer. Same goes for home items, most of my guests/friends just don't use a V3 regularly 4. Viewers, while I use both Phoenix and Firestorm, on-a-day-to-day basis I prefer Phoenix. Even with the tweaks to Firestorm I find the chat/notices/messages and the edit appearance/shape just clunky and annoying. So if I have to switch viewers just to see an item...so far there is no mesh value to make the viewer hassle worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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