Tari Landar

I'm not going to link to it, because I am in abject opposition to such preposterous things that are so far from entertaining, it almost makes me cry (ok, laugh crying counts too, right?). That's mostly because they're taken super, super cereal by the people involved in them, and I find their behavior and opinions on the matter, especially when dealing with opposition (which they find incredibly insulting apparently), a bit more than slightly disturbing on levels even I don't understand...but... There already is a Miss and Mr sl dealio thing in sl, and has been since, at least 2008 (I'm not sure before then, I knew of no one and had no need to know of anyone involved in such before then, I have no need now too but unfortunately need went on vacation). It's pretty much just a popularity contest pretending to be about faux pixel beauty and walking/posing skill that apparently isn't as easy to achieve as buying/making/wearing the right things and walking/using the right poseball/hud the right way... it's a good thing I don't believe in hell, I might have to actually fear going there someday

I'm still reading the thread, but, wanted to say something... First, some background, though. I haven't put a rl cent into sl, in a long time. When I have done so, in the past, it's been pretty minimal. Why? Because I don't have what are, to me, the justifications for doing so (and have only done so, when I did..confused yet?). In other words...I ain't got the money to put in the money. I knew this coming IN to sl, though. So, I made sl work for me...and it was rough, lemme tell ya. My kids were still wee ones (maybe not too wee, but wee enough) so working in rl, AND working in sl, while still being the bestest mommy I could be, homeschooling, going to school myself, and finding time to eat, poop, shower and breathe in that mix ...not easy. But, I knew if I wanted money in sl, I'd have to make the money for sl, in sl. I did it (and it took ages). And then the poop really hit the fan in rl, like, hit the fan, flew into the walls, the ceiling, the white shag carpet, the windows and curtains, the dog, and my hair...ugh. T'was then I realize...fudge....my literal only income, is basically monopoly money. How in the haides am I going to use monopoly money to keep rl tummies full, the rl roof from flying off or caving in, the rl lights in their on position, and whatever other annoying rl expenses are required to live..? Ugh. So I said "Self", because I do that, "self, we need to figure this poop out", and so me, myself, and I, figured our poop out. All of a sudden (ok, not really all of a sudden, this took more effort than I'm willing to admit I put in) my monopoly money was magically transformed into colored linen with dead dudes' faces all over. It didn't make me a millionaire, but it paid for ALL rl expenses, and sl enjoyments for damn near 4 years, all by itself, despite the fact that even WITH it, I still couldn't afford to own land in Bay city so...pardon my grape jelly on that one (not really, lovely place, but..eh...I'd rather visit than live, lol). Anyhoo, long story even longer... I eventually came to a point where monopoly money neither needed to, nor did I want it to bring in dead dude face covered linens, for reasons that matter not an iota to anyone but me. Now, I fully enjoy my slife, having gone back to not bringing any rl cents, or dead face dude lined linens, into sl. If I want monopoly money here, I make monopoly money here and I spend it here too. I still, very much enjoy my sl, and the...really countless to me..aspects of sl. I do not currently own any land, and haven't for quite a long time. When/if I do, though, I pay for it through that same monopoly money I make here. I do squat on a friend's land, but that's only because she lets me and I sometimes make it look perty for her(and she doesn't need it, nor want it, for reasons only important to her). I don't need a large spending habit, or any spending habit, in sl. But if I WANT one, I make it happen. I don't ask LL to perty please hand me some, or more, monopoly money just because my rl wallet is feeling malnourished..they'd have to do that for everyone and I'm just not nice enough to make that request (though they HAVE reduced some costs, especially in the area of land ownership, so, I can't commiserate on not being able to afford land in one of the most expensive areas ever in sl...that's just..well, kinda silly, as silly as those land prices in that same area being as high as they are..but that's a personal opinion) It can take some work to truly enjoy sl the way you want to, on a limited budget. but it is absolutely, without a doubt, 100% possible for anyone, and everyone. The literal only thing blocking you like a brick wall, is yourself. If you don't know how to enjoy sl on a limited budget, don't know where to look for entertainment and nifty things free or cheap, have a desire to learn how to aid sl in working for you to put more monopoly money in your fake sl wallet....reach out to the places and people that can best help you. Honestly, there are loads of places inworld, in the forums, on different blogs and websites that can all offer a helping hand. There are even more individuals, fellow residents, willing to offer a helping hand too. I'm not being snarky when I say this, but, simple searches will find you a LOT, like, way more than people realize lot, of stuff, and ways, and people, and websites, and blogs, and.....Yeah. Look for it, and if you don't know where to look, ask someone, because someone else does know, lots of us do. I'm not denigrating the budgets of anyone else, regardless of how high, low, or middle ground they might be. I honestly don't judge people for something like that. Your income alone doesn't dictate how much you can enjoy sl. In fact, it doesn't have to dictate it at all, or even play ANY role. I know loads of people who figure out how to make sl work for them so they have some monopoly money every week, OR...they do just peachy without any at all. Those people come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, income levels, with varying capabilities and life (rl and sl) circumstances and situations. Few things are as limiting as we think they are at first. Being disabled or on a limited income doesn't HAVE to limit you quite so much in sl, in fact, it can even work in your favor through motivation alone whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite spaces...wiiiiiiiiider than a miiiiiiiiiile....I'm wriiiiiiiiiing you in style some daaaaaaaaay You can ignore that last bit, it was in my head and just felt it needed to come out my fingers too

This most recent, and all other previous iterations of Drune have always intended to be temporary, never permanent, let alone preserved. I applaud the OP for truly enjoying a place, believing it was going to be lost and wanting to do something about it (it speaks highly of the OP, and the draw that Drune provided OP and others, actually, whether or not it was the best way to go about "saving" it, and whether or not people here had ever been there or heard of it). That said...the creator of Drune has never, and probably will never, intend for it to be a permanent place in sl. It changes from time to time, it disappears from time to time, it gets rebuilt entirely from time to time, as that is what the creator of it wishes it to be. Asking for LL to come in and save something that for all intents and purposes doesn't want to be saved, I am afraid won't draw much enthusiasm from others. It may even rub some folks the wrong way..I dunno which folks, but, probably some, lol. I am sorry, OP, that a place you love is no longer, or will be no longer even if it still is (as is the purpose of that particular place). But, I am willing to bet if you explore sl, you can find new places that you love just as dearly. Just prepare yourself for the temporary nature that really is more of the norm in sl than it is a rarity. Some creators and owners of these properties don't WANT them to be permanent, no matter how much we visitors might love them. We do have to respect that. I can't tell you how many places have come in gone in sl that I truly loved, and are no longer. The Africa sims (the original ones, not the new version which is lovely in its own right, but not the same) would've been a fantastic example of what was possible so many years ago, while also being an amazing teaching tool. Sadly, that was not to be saved by LL either. Most likely because preservation back then just wasn't as commonplace as it is now (and it's not even really commonplace now, so.., lol) and people didn't necessarily see the value in preserving places like that, until after it was too late to do so (or they simply didn't know it was possible, so never pursued it beyond asking for help from visitors to cover tier) I wish they had been, I wish with every fiber of my being, because even if it wouldn't be "up to date" by today's standards, those sims were absolutely breathtaking, the animals magestic (and extremely entertaining, plus....you could ride and/or interact almost all of them, AND It was encouraged...I digress..), the balloon ride was actually educational (it spouted out facts about Africa, the animals, etc...) and generally, it was one of the best places I have ever seen in sl. That's saying a lot, considering how many superbly fantastic places have existed in sl over the years, and how many of them I have seen, almost practically lived on, over the years too, lol.

Lots to cover ..I'll just cover it all in one post, because it's easier for me. First, I wish people would either ignore my damn posts, or stop skimming them and actually read them if they intend to respond at all. I have said, REPEATEDLY, that we have a broken system, and it needs a lot of work. Some seem to believe that I think otherwise, when my actual words, say differently and couldn't possibly be misconstrued to say anything else unless you're skimming them over and not even reading them. Go back and read them if you want to converse with me, I'll gladly do it...because I see more of the system we have (where it works, where it fails, where it needs work, where it can be improved) than, clearly, some others..and I have no problems discussing all of those points, the good, the bad, the ugly and the indifferent (it's an important topic for me, if that wasn't already made obvious). Reiterating the exact same points over and over because someone wants to ignore them, however, is a bit of a pill This is flat out bullspit, sorry but calling a spade a spade here. People act as if people in other countries don't ALSO struggle, don't have difficulty getting medical treatments, all because your glossed over view of "free". (again, go back and read what I said about free...it's NOT free, they pay for it..all of them, in various different ways, NONE Of it is actually "free", which is a huge part of why we struggle to implement better, universal, healthcare...we can't afford to increase taxes to anyone in this country enough to cover what we'd need to do that....yet..maybe someday, but not right now). Do you know why a lot of people LEAVE other countries to come to the US for various treatments, despite the fact that we don't have "free" healthcare? Because they can't get it where they live, have to go on wait-lists for months on end and suffer in the meantime waiting, yes, even in Europe. The hospitals and specialists me and my family use (well, have used over the years) are world renowned for a reason, and more than 35% of their patients aren't from this continent, but rather...Europe. Although that has sod all to do with us having affordable healthcare...it does relate to the fact that the healthcare people can get in other countries isn't always sunshine and rainbows either, despite being "free". Do you REALLY think that people in other countries can simply go to the doctor and not have to worry about paying for it, or covering lost wages if work has to be missed, or covering other bills, or whatever other expenses they too (like we) will have? Do you really think they aren't somehow paying for that care in some form or another? If that is what you think, you're misguided, and misinformed (that goes back to that "free stuff" you think is free, not actually being free). I can't tell if that's what you think, which is why I ask, you don't have to actually answer though, just something to actually research and ponder, I suppose. Again, you're misinformed, severely. Yes, people do, still, often pay a lot for medication in many areas of the world (some less than us, some more, but don't pretend they all have literally no cost, that's simply not true). Yes, many do have a lot of out of pocket medical expenses not covered. Yes they also have a lot of things covered we don't, too. Yes, families do go bankrupt, lose things and have to go on other assistance programs because of medical bills, lost work, etc... Many (most, perhaps, on this I'm not clear) don't have pre-existing condition clauses, because they also don't have many insurance providers like we do, they have universal care and things similar (which is a huge fault in our system, like I already stated), and they're ALL paying for their own medical care through various taxes (aka, not free), not JUST the rich (although as already pointed out by someone else, their rich pay more in taxes just like our rich, including businesses, do, you just don't seem to want to accept that fact). There are a WHOLE lot of benefits to the systems other countries have regarding medical care, I never once denied such and why you're so fixated on believing I've said anything to the contrary is beyond me. Again...our...system....is...broken. Those words couldn't possibly be more clear, yet you choose to ignore them every single time I type them. Shrugs...weird. I discussed way more than just medical assistance though, because they're all important, not just medical care. Also for your snarky "oh what joy we have more than a bowl of rice to live on in America." comment...YES you should be damn grateful that we can provide more food than that for people here, we should ALL be damn grateful about that (while STILL working towards providing more, and better...we should always strive to do better, even while being grateful for that which we have). We should be grateful that we have any type of assistance, even though it's broken assistance, because something is always better than nothing. I don't think you actually understand how much our food programs (food stamps and WIC primarily) Actually HELP families in this country...even though (And I again, said this too) it could be a whole lot better (I"d prefer no nation anywhere in the world need it, but, clearly, we ALL do and some nations fail miserably, far worse than we do!) It is absolutely heartbreaking and devastating that there are so many areas of the world where that's not possible, where children die of hunger....friggen HUNGER! It is heartbreaking that there are children all over Europe, even, the area you keep praising for fantastic medical care, that are homeless, living on the streets, living completely on assistance programs for generation after generation (there are some fascinating documentaries on youtube if you care to look them up..and that's not meant snarky..but some of them are a bit harsh when they open your eyes to the reality of poverty the world over, even in developed countries), aren't getting enough to eat, and a lot of them don't finish school in many areas, nor are they expected to.......Why don't people seem to care about their food intake as much as they do their ability to walk into a doctor's office, a doctor's office isn't going to put food in their tummies? Their system is no more perfect than our system is, even if some aspects of their system work better than ours, like healthcare. There are aspects in other nations which are absolutely horrendous. Your words read as if "free healthcare", because we don't have it, makes every other area better...while ignoring the parts of their systems that don't work, flat out fail, too. In Britain alone, over 20% of people live in poverty (which is NOT considered low income there, it's destitution), while not even 13% of people in the US do and our numbers are going down, while all of their numbers are on the rise (rapidly growing actually). Good medical care isn't feeding their nation's children. Our various assistance programs, even being broken, attribute a hell of a lot to why our numbers aren't higher (Like they have been in the past and could easily be). Again...broken system..didn't deny it, never have denied it, never would deny it. There is still some function to it, however, and I'm not so willfully ignorant that I'll ignore that very real fact. I see families in low income, poverty, absolute destitution, all the time (mine has been one). I speak and work with them on a daily basis, actually. I also see families get a hand up, become able to stand on their own two feet, and do better (both staying on and getting off assistance, whichever is needed) because of the numerous programs we do have in place that other areas of the world do not. I won't ignore those benefits because our healthcare sucks donkey toes...and, it DOES. Most daycares and child care centers, minus some in-home ones that refuse to certify (or legally can't, because...we have regulations) take the vouchers (because its a guaranteed payment AND they can charge the government more than they might otherwise, there are even centers that only deal with these programs and no one else in many areas). Things with those programs have changed a TON over the years, it is far better than it has ever been, more centers are willing to be certified providers for parents receiving the aid, more centers have opened, and generally MOST parents' standards have gone up (those are all good things). They are not all, or even most, crappy places like you, or anyone else assumes. Are there crappy ones? You bet your butt there are (I HATE THAT), and people use them including people NOT using the program, not because they HAVE to, but because they CHOOSE to. Those places being crappy has nothing at all to do with childcare assistance programs, and everything to do with generally crappy people (the ones who own those centers, and work at them) That's a slight against those parents for continuing to take their children there, not standing up for their children, not finding better care, and not caring to..well, care, and a slight against the people that run and work at them. We have crappy daycares in this state too, like every other state. Why people send their children to them and how they stay open at all, is beyond me. I suppose if people stopped sending their kids there, they'd finally close, eh? It's maddening, I don't like it either, I don't think most people do, but it speaks volumes about anyone that chooses to send their child to one..and spare me the "it's the only choice available"...because it's not, especially if you're using an assistance program, the number of centers you can use is growing every single year, all over the US. I too wish there were more accommodating centers for people who work shift work (with or without accepting the vouchers, this is a problem, always has been), it sucks that there aren't more of them. Again, that has nothing to do with childcare assistance or its availability, but a lack of centers willing to be open those hours. There is little anyone can do about that, except encourage more centers to accommodate more hours (and hell they'd make more money if they did, so it's sound advice any way you slice it). We have a few centers where I live, most parents either go a town in any direction, or use one of the few we do have (all of which are actually really nice, and are certified providers, one of them is actually open weekends and nights too, which is great for shift workers and definitely not typical). A lot of parents that live here and have children young enough for daycare don't actually work here in this town though (we're over 50% rural anyway, so..kinda limited on employment in this town to begin with, lol). By and large we have more people that use other assistance programs than we do childcare here (like MOST towns in the US), and a lot of those who do use childcare only use it part time here. Other cities are different of course but the odds of finding a good child care center, which everyone should want anyway, that is certified, grows exponentially when you get to a more populated area. A guaranteed payment straight from the government, no worries about parents being able to afford, or remembering to pay on time...waaaay less hassle, are all benefits for the center, so few have reason not to accept the programs. Another benefit some people don't know about these centers is that these grants cover more than childcare vouchers in MOST States (I think there are 3 that don't do this, but that is by choice of the state..and I don't know why, I"D have to ask someone more versed in those states, because I"m not). They actually get things like diapers, food, formula, toys, supplies, furniture, equipment (including security equipment), and other necessary things through the grants and organizations that donate too. Like I said though, these programs are a lot different than they once were and far more money is allotted to them than ever before. Doesn't stop rumor mills and myths, of course....

Yes, they probably very well did deny themselves something in order to save that $10k. I'm not about to guess what, because that too varies as greatly as humans. Maybe they denied themselves simple pleasures they realized they didn't need, maybe other more important things..I don't know, and I don't think anyone but them can say for certain. I'm not convinced playing the guessing game on that part is a good idea, because..not universal and it would be very difficult to make it so. How are you gonna prove that person is telling the truth or lying? That's really just rhetorical, I prefer to take the most folks are as truthful as they can be route on such. I can see how agencies don't want to make that assessment, though, too many variables. That said, income DOES play a factor, the absolute biggest factor, and it is compared against assets (like something many who struggle would consider a pretty darn cushy savings) and necessary expenses (utilities, rent/mortgage, health insurance, child care expenses, school expenses for adult students, in some instances necessary ongoing healthcare that would otherwise not be covered by another source too). Those things are all considered, even when the system sucks, they're taken into account. I know it happens, even worse things happen, it's awful, and it sucks, You will never see me diminish those things, those awful circumstances that can keep a family just this side of not qualifying, when all it takes is one bad thing to go wrong.... Like I said, I make, roughly, $10 too much a month to get healthcare for myself, I don't qualify for any actually, even many providers that all have preexisting condition clauses (and I don't know of an insurance company out there, that doesn't...used to be a few). I do get it, on more levels than I wish I did. There really aren't as many tests (I'm not quite sure what you mean by that part, I might need clarification) to determine eligibility as you might think. That doesn't mean they always get it right, that it always seems (or is) fair, or that people will always get the assistance they need and deserve. don't support the belief that humans don't deserve certain things I, quite strongly, believe should be rights...I'm not the constitution, nor government, though...so I do what I can to help invoke change, and it starts with the people that need assistance, and trickles up, unfortunately (I believe it should go the other way, but it doesn't). If it were actually simpler, for us in the US, it would be so. The fact that its NOT that simple and NOT that cut and dry, is why we don't have some of the things others do. The main problem, is cost, and how we come up with that in order to help as many as possible. That's the part no one can seem to figure out, and it's why we have the assistance and programs we do now, because it's as close a compromise as we've ever had. The system is broken, most people know it's broken...but it IS a system, it does have a purpose, and even through those cracks, it does still work on some levels. Comparing us to other countries, is something I find a bit unfair. Part of the reason some countries have what they do, is because far more of their people actually NEED it to survive (which shows a failure on those nations' parts to realize how better to prevent the need before it exists, the same failure WE have). There are things I wish we had too, lots of things, lots of programs, lots of assistance....I'm just not the person to ask how we get those, mostly because I know, it's not an easy answer except in theory alone. We haven't found a system that works 100% of the time, anywhere in the world, that's not a fault of the US, but ...well, our species as a whole. Why haven't we yet figured out how to accommodate the basic needs of life for all? I have no clue, but no one else seems to either, so I don't feel nearly as bad that I don't know the answer. Until we do have it, though....we work with what we've got, and we work towards better. We may be running a snail's pace through frozen molasses, but we are moving, and for that I'm grateful. Just as I am grateful for every bit of assistance we do offer, of which there is a tremendous amount that I am not willing to denounce or denigrate. We do help people, we keep families together, we keep babies and children fed, we educate, we feed, we house, we train, we employ...and we do whatever else we can, system be damned. Like I said, it's broken, has been forever as far as I'm concerned, but it's not yet shattered entirely....so I leave a lot of room to be grateful for that very real fact. I like recognizing the help we DO have available, despite being someone who could really use a little more, but can't get it. I see this system from the inside and the outside...sometimes it's not so easy when the two intertwine. What we have IS better than nothing...and there are children around the world that live off less than a cup of rice a week...so..pardon if I am somewhat grateful for that fact and not keen on comparing us to other nations who can and choose to do more, when there are some nations that can do nothing.

If I could sell them for what they're worth in stores here...I'd sell them Then if I still needed assistance, I'd apply 😜

Sometimes that distinction is very minute, almost invisible (and can make things very difficult)....but someone with $10k available to them right this moment that they can tap into, is not in need of most assistance right at that moment. If I, at any point when I have ever needed assistance, had $10k in ANY form in savings...I would not have ever applied for assistance, that would be taking away assistance from someone else that probably needed it more (and that in and of itself is a problem and contributes to us not having "more" assistance available).

It has been in place since before I was even born actually, in one form or another. The main qualification is that the parent(both, if present, not simply one if both are present unless there is some medical reason that makes one parent incapable of caring for the child(ren)) must be working and/or attending a higher education at least 20 hours a week. The funding tends to come, primarily, to the states in the form of Federal Child Care and Development Block grants, but is also funded by other federal funding collected in the form of taxes, etc.. The money is paid directly to the carer of the child(ren), so that it is used for that purpose and ONLY that purpose. It's actually a really good program, and a lot more people use it than people think.

Why would a family with $10,000 in their savings account need childcare assistance in the first place? (that would disqualify them from a lot of programs, which are all NEED and income based, if you have $10k in savings, you're not in need right now).

It IS federal and yes, they very much do, whether or not people use it, may differ, but it's a federal program. The state handles only doling the funds out(just like they do pretty much every other federally funded assistance program, they're the middle man, but the programs are all federally funded). There are some links you;ll find online about it, a lot have outdated information regarding which states, but most of the other information is pretty accurate. Every single state in the US receives this funding for childcare assistance (that once wasn't the case, for a few states that never requested such, nor needed, for whatever reason, but that was decades ago)> There are some states that have their own separate programs that don't come from federal funding, on top of the federal funding, dependent entirely on need, and a couple states only request the funding on an as needed, individual case basis, but it is available and offered to ALL states., no exceptions.

Because you keep lying about those points. WE DO OFFER FREE CHILDCARE TO THE WORKING POOR. There, was that loud enough? I literally signed four families up today for it.

I'm just addressing this part....your friends, if they are the ones informing you of this, are lying to your face on this if they suggest those things don't exist here. The poor absolutely DO get both child care and health care (in few instances, the medical comes at a very low cost, a very small sliding scale, but most instances "free" to them, minus their % of taxes paid to social programs of course)., if they are indeed poor and fall within (at the very lowest) 150% of the federal poverty line (that percentage actually goes as high as 250% in some areas of the country and certain situations as well). The income levels to qualify for such things are a lot higher than people think. Now I'm going to get a bit personal and tell you how I know this, aside from my experience helping others, but actually firsthand (the childcare I have never used, but I Help people sign up for it every day, so..I know it to be fact) . My family has received assistance on and off whenever necessary since my children were very little (off when I didn't need it, obviously on when I did). My children have had medical assistance most of their lives, even as a supplement to an actual paid for (by me) provider (because insurance companies suck sometimes). In fact, two of them still qualify (being of age for children with medicaid), while I do not qualify for any medical assistance at all because I make just slightly (roughly $10 a month) over the qualified limit. IT sucks, but my children do very much have medical care and it is paid for by tax payers (and yes, that includes me). Of course we rarely ever NEED it, but they do qualify, they do have a medicaid card, and should they need to go to the doctor, we can (which is nice since we have no free clinics or things like that here). Children in this country qualify for a LOT more than people think, including free childcare, WIC, food stamps and medicaid. Adults struggle, especially individuals and the barely working poor, and that part sucks donkey toes (but I already discussed that part, lol)...but there's a lot more assistance than you think, and a LOT more people qualify for it than actually use it.

Helping them see how they got where they are, so they can avoid getting back there, is part of the solution, and a huge part of that IS very much personal responsibility(it's the icky part sometimes, but still a part). You didn't even remotely acknowledge that. There's a lot more to the science beyond simple (well, it's not really simple at all, it's very complex, but, I don't know what word to use there) brain development. There is so much more to it than just that, but a lot of people boil it down to "young people are stupid because their brains aren't fully developed yet" and it tends to snowball into "we need to give them more free help". That, to me, is not compassion, because it doesn't help them develop further, it doesn't help them set good life goals, it doesn't help get them out of a rut and it doesn't help them build a better life, or figure out int he future the best ways to avoid those bad times (As best as one can, of course, life being what it is). Compassion is understanding that they are in this situation now, it's hard, it's going to stay and be hard (may get harder) until it's better., and they need help now, including teaching them how not to need help later. I Have far more compassion than I think people realize, it's why I do what I do, because I want to see everyone have a good life and I will do what I can for anyone, enemy, friend, or stranger, to try and make that happen. I'm just a realist when it comes to "how did we get here?", because it's way more beneficial to do so,and helps break the proverbial cycle. It's why we have less and less generational destitution than we have ever had since our welfare programs were first instituted, and it is the ONLY reason why. No one has said that, no one, anywhere in this thread. So you're defending against something no one has said, and very few people actually believe, including some of Rand's most staunch supporters. However, everyone actually CAN pull themselves up by the bootstraps, they may just need an extra hand,. or few, to do so, hence why we DO have assistance programs in place....a LOT of them!!! There is a limited amount of help we can offer, of course, but please stop pretending we don't offer any. I literally work every single day getting people help they need, helping them get to a better station in life and helping them realizing why giving back (when and where they can) is beneficial for us all. Many are, and some aren't (I would venture a guess that way less aren't, certainly way less than ever before at this point) but our programs DO help them get to the best that they can. Offering more of them (again, we really do have a LOT of assistance available for people, your words sort of give the impression we have none, and it makes no sense to me..someone who helps people get this very assistance every day, lol), without teaching people how to NOT need them, isn't going to help anyone do the best they can, though. I have no friggen idea where this came from, I said nothing of either scenario, nor would I EVER suggest they simply "stop and do your job" or "quit having a mental illness and get to work" like you're suggesting...again, few people would ever actually be so cruel, minus those willfully ignorant, and I believe those willfully ignorant hold very value in anything, but..I digress. But, if you want to know, I can answer. Yes, I have seen people with all kinds of mental (even physical) illnesses try and cope with life in general, need assistance, be unable to do better than they are currently doing, and all sorts of other scenarios. I have been, and am, that someone too, though certainly not to the severity of others, nor would I pay the comparison game (because I think it's stupid). Part of what I do on a daily basis is help people in situations like that find help, be it in the form of assistance or medical(mental and physical) care. If you believe I'm suggesting that it is their fault that they are where they are, you're barking up the wrong tree (I can't tell if you think that, if not, disregard). But the vast majority of people on assistance, don't actually have mental health issues, most are working poor families that need a hand up and not a hand out. Yes, it is a fact that a lot of people could've made different choices somewhere in their past that would've aided them, but what's done is done. So now, we help them, give them assistance they actually need, and teach them how not to need it. It's not simple, it's not easy, and sometimes, it sucks. What we don't, okay what we shouldn't, do, is claim they always have no hand in their station in life. That makes it more difficult for people who truly DO have no hand in their station in life, and it serves no one well, it's also the main reason those with mental health issues don't get as much assistance as they need, but, again, I digress, that's a whole different discussion and one I don't think we actually disagree on. We DO offer those things, why are you ignoring that very real fact? You're pretending we offer little to no help at all. We DO put the welfare of children first and foremost in this nation as far as assistance is concerned (it's why there are more programs available to help them than anyone else and in some areas...waaaaay more programs), then families, then individuals. Although I agree we can and should do more for those with mental health issues, that is an entirely different can of worms. We still offer them the same amount of assistance as we offer anyone else, the problem is they often need documentation stating they NEED it and that can be beyond difficult to obtain (mostly out of willful ignorance on the part of everyone else, not them, of course)..but, again..different can of worms, and not one I think we disagree on. The federal poverty line does absolutely look dreadful, until you consider that ALL federal assistance programs look at at least 150% of that guideline, so it's actually larger, and many other things are taken into account as well (and some programs look at up to 200%-250% of that, so, double it, at least). Some areas of the country, the cost of living is actually low enough that this isn't a problem, but cost of living in areas where it is higher, raises that % even higher, it's a weirdly flexible scale, which not many of the websites discussing it seem to convey very well) The qualifying amounts are a lot higher than they look more often than not. Its actually a bit surprising how truly high they are in some instances (which probably lends a lot to why we don't have as many on assistance programs in this country as some other developed nations who literally live on assistance programs for generations and always have) I know the system needs a hell of a lot of work, it really does, and on that we most definitely do NOT disagree. I wish we could ensure that every person in this nation (the world, really, tho that might be a bit altruistic of me) had a roof over their head, proper employment, food in their bellies, could afford their utilities and provide all that they need for their families/selves. I really do wish that were possible, but that's not a reality for ANY Nation on this planet, even those you think offer more "free" things. That's why we have assistance programs, to help cope with this reality, and they very much do, despite needing a LOT of work. I just really don't like people pretending we have none at all, because it makes it very hard to try and get things changed, get help for people who truly need it, redesign assistance programs and generally ensure a halfway decent, or better quality of life for as many people as we can....let alone help people get OFF assistance and be more self sufficient. Denying what we do have, or demanding we do more isn't going to magically make more appear out of thin air, it just makes it harder to make the help available. That certainly isn't going to help anyone who actually is just trying to do the best that they can. And yes, I will stand, firmly, by the belief that personal accountability DOES often play a bigger role than some are willing to accept, regardless of one's age, or brain development, when they made the choices they did. I can say that, because I literally see it all day, every day, and few people I have ever helped, have ever said differently (most realize where they fudged up, or could've done differently, or.. even if at the time that didn't seem so...that's key in developing self sufficiency). That doesn't mean it ALWAYS does, but way more than people seem to be able to accept. That's where a hand up helps, and not a hand out. Teach people, whenever and wherever possible, how they got where they are, and how to prevent getting back to it once they get out (and teach next generations how to avoid it), warning signs, how to prepare for what ifs, where to go when all the preparation in the world don't help...and you'll have a whole nation of people that not only CAN help others who can't get out of those bad situations and ruts as easily...but also WANT to help. That's part of why our entire system needs an overhaul, though. In the meantime, we have programs that work, that help, that keep families under one roof, fed, clothed, with utilities on, and educate. I'm not going to deny they exist just because some think it isn't enough "free stuff".

I forgot something, but it's super important for people who don't live int he US to understand the kind of assistance we DO have. Using the example given...minimum wage...that mother would qualify to receive: full childcare , Medicaid for her child and herself, WIC (women infants and children, they provide some basic foods, formulas, even prescription ones, etc. for pregnant and nursing mothers, infants and children up to age 5) food assistance...all completely "Free" to her (minus the portion of her taxes, like yours and mine which go towards assistance), potentially rent and utility assistance, and possibly even cash assistance.....in every single state in this great nation, based on the federal poverty level (state and local play no role whatsoever). A social worker would actually know this, but it can also be found online with a quick search, for anyone who isn't. The difference between us and other nations, is that the majority of those who actually qualify for those assistance benefits, don't actually pursue them all and we don't willingly tell everyone they should, whereas it is the norm to suggest and accept it in many other nations for generation upon generation (which may contribute to why it seems "free" in those nations...). We tell people to get what they need, while and when they need it, and try to make your station in life better while doing so. We are slowly moving away from the generational destitution, though we have a long way to go, it just chaps my hide to see people that want to perpetuate it instead of ending it.

Super, super long, and a bit more direct than I usually am, but...warranted for this kind of topic (especially when someone thinks offending an entire nation is a good idea) TLDR; teach a man to fish....... (typos blah, blah, blah..) I don't often get into these debates, but I have some serious concerns that you're even remotely speaking the truth about your life experiences in social work, based on what I have bolded above. NO social worker would ever say something so absolutely horrendously stupid, and expect to be taken seriously. They want to END the need for social programs, help people find a way out of them and better themselves, not increase it by saying "oh you poor dear, you just HAD To have sex, it was out of your control". I can't even come to terms with such idiocy. How little faith do you have in others that you TRULY believe women have no control, at all, over their own reproductive health? I am not even certain I can begin to explain how absolutely idiotic and ridiculous such statements are. Birth control methods are free in most areas of our country, and if not one's direct area, nearby areas, condoms are free in every single public health institution in the country(yes, even ERs, oddly enough), most private ones too. Even things like actual birth control pills can be found free or at a very reduced cost, even here and we don't even HAVE public clinics or anything like that.....and abstinence is always free. Yes some girls are brought up to think that sex=love (so are some boys, so let's not play the gender compare game, it's stupid), but that doesn't mean these girls, these women have no control at all over getting pregnant, or boys and men have no options either. Save for few instances such as rape (and I am not defending or justifying that instance before you go off on your woe is me tirade and get some other sock puppet in here to do so as well, those instances happen and they are HORRIBLE, but they are few and far between, not even remotely typical) women, and girls absolutely can ABSTAIN. All schools, even private ones, in the US teach some form of sex ed, they teach where babies come from, most teach about STDs, so the whole "We're ignorant as to where babies come from" excuse is as piss poor an excuse as it comes in today's culture. I AM someone who got pregnant young, and it was through my own CHOICES that I did, I had sex, and made poor choices for birth control (ie, none), no one did that for me. I don't regret those choices that I made, but they are still very much MY choices, just as they are for the vast majority of others. Don't friggen tell me I had no choice, don't tell me most have no choice...of course we do, it's ignorant to even suggest otherwise (I can't even begin to explain just how ignorant that belief truly is). You're mixing "what happens after X happens" with "how do we prevent X from happening", and it's a stupid comparison, they are two separate issues, entirely, even if they might be related. I also am someone that works closely with and for people who are down on their luck, families who are struggling, individuals that need help...and the difference between most of them and stupid things like this, is that they'll willingly admit that yes, sometimes their life choices lead them to where they are..and we ALL Have choices, even the most destitute. We may not LIKE our choices, and we may not be able to change them once we make them, but we do have them. They want out of it, they don't want to disregard their own hand in how they got there, because they don't want to end up right back where they are later. That's reality, not your little fantasy land of "no one has a hand in how they get where they are in life", you're not helping ANYONE with that kind of attitude and it's so maddening....ugh, I can't wrap my head around it. You cannot offer a hand up or a hand out, without first accepting that prevention of the problem may have been on the table at one point or another. Even if it no longer is, even if someone seemingly did everything they thought they possibly could, at the time, you have to be able to admit that we have a much larger hand in things than people are willing to admit...and that you very well may be part of the problem. I've been that person that did everything, at the time, seemingly right, and still fell on very hard times, losing my home, losing everything, while having a family to care for and a young child living on death's door (in and out of the hospital, at a few points on life support, etc.)....I GET struggle on levels I can't even begin to explain. I am not in any way knocking that, or suggesting ***** can't happen, but I"m also not a liar, and not willing to say I had NO hand in it. THAT's how I got OUT of needing as much help as I once did (and I freely admit that sometimes, I still need help), and figuring out how to make my choices work better for me, use what help I could get and then later be able to return that help ten fold to others. Sometimes ***** does happen, and that's why we have the help we do, but it's not a lifestyle worth living on a constant and consistent basis, and it's not conducive to a productive society, or even family home. It's problematic in many ways and we're not meant to live off assistance for our entire lives unless we literally have no other choice (and more than 99% of us do have choices, stop pretending we don't!!) Help should exist, and it very much does, let's not pretend that it doesn't. I am surrounded by people that need it, I am and have been someone that needs/needed it. I Know the situation from the inside out..and you just pretend you do from the outside, which pisses me off to no end and only reiterates what I said about white knights in a previous thread. You aren't helping a gol darn soul with your faux concern. You are, in fact, putting every single person that does need help at one point or another back decades. Offer them a hand up and teach them how to stay up and you'll be helping them. Give them a hand out, fail to explain how to stay up, and fail to hold them responsible for their future, and you're just going to have to keep doling out those hand outs, no one gets anywhere in that society (and many other nations fight with this very issue constantly, which you've failed to acknowledge repeatedly). While people like me work for and towards a better outcome for all, you just want people to rely on assistance from everyone else and not work towards helping themselves and being part of the solution. We make organizations that help, that teach, that assist. We provide opportunities, we provide education that tries to undo the absolutely awful advice of "oh you poor dear you don't know any better" people like you are doing. We offer hands up, not a hand out, and that is better for all. A hand out is temporary help, a hand up, is far more valuable and will escalate into a whole nation of hands up. That should be our ultimate goal not "every other nation has free stuffs, we need free stuffs too" Your ignorance on just how "free" things get to be "free" in other countries just.....I don't know how in the hell anyone could have a conversation with someone of that mindset. It is not rocket surgery, but that belief most definitely makes it seem like so. It all boils down to this... what you think is "free" in other nations, isn't actually free. People ALL pay for those benefits in one way, or another, it comes at a cost, it doesn't just magically show up some day on the back of a unicorn farting rainbows and cupcakes. The fact that WE don't have some of them, in the same forms, doesn't mean we have none. Different nations structure things differently, but stuff doesn't magically appear out of thin air, the cost comes from us all, in one way or another. The vast majority of those on assistance in this country also pay for their own assistance as well, you have such a skewed view of things you can't possibly see this though. Many of these nations that offer "free"(Insert whatever) also have higher instances of people NEEDING that assistance than we do., which one would think would speak volumes to someone that claims to work in social work. There are a lot of things we need in this nation, including a complete overhaul of our entire welfare and social assistance programs, our educational system(first and foremost, as it will lead to things such as better training, better career paths, more financial security...)...and god knows how many other areas. But providing "more free stuff" is not the answer when we can't afford to provide what we already do. We need to start with personal accountability, and supplement it with assistance when and where necessary..not simply assume we're all supposed to get everything "For free" Based off some idiotic belief that "Free" actually means "Without cost". Also, yes, corporations in this nation do get a lot of breaks, some that they don't need, and some probably don't deserve (when you look at it from the outside in)...but how the hell do you expect people to get employment when businesses are struggling too? How do we help all? SOME corporations are merely greedy jack in the boxes that I wouldn't wipe my rear end with (so are some people...cheetoh in charge being one of them), absolutely, and some are definitely corrupt from the top down (And you can't blame those on lower tiers for that), but that has absolutely sod all to do with social welfare and assistance programs...again you're comparing things that don't even reasonably FIT in a comparison. Corporate greed, of which there is plenty the world over (and most other nations are worse than us on this one..so I dunno where you're going with that) has little to no bearing on us, as a nation, being willing to offer a hand up and not a hand out. We need more of the former, and less of the latter. Sometimes, yes, businesses, like humans, struggle, even if YOU can't see it and just see it all as greed. Yes, sometimes it seems like some businesses get tax breaks they shouldn't, but are you really the best judge of that when you can't see their books, don't, seem, to understand how "tax breaks" work, and, clearly, have no experience owning a business that is or has struggled? You (like we all) want people to have better lives, better training, better education...where the hell are we getting the money for all of this and how are businesses supposed to provide it? You're not providing it, you just want to coddle people, tell them "there there" and pretend they can't help themselves...so, who shoulders the brunt of the blow.....oh, yes, businesses and those with more money...just like EVERY OTHER NATION on the planet. Maybe you should take a pay cut, that will certainly help, right? I don't get paid to do the social work I do, except in watching people emerge from the ashes they once felt stuck in do better and be better, and frankly, I'm perfectly okay with that. How about you work for free for a few years, that should free up some money for someone else. But wait...you have bills to pay, right....so do others, including businesses. I really don't think you understand how taxes, or most businesses work, at all, lol. Businesses may seem to get more tax breaks to you, but they also pay more than you and have far more cost than any of us. I've actually owned businesses, with actual employees (yes, brick and mortar businesses) it is not nearly as cut and dry as you think. One wrong move, and just like any family...everything crumbles. Who is going to help the business though, and by trickle down, everyone that benefits from that business, like, employees? Clearly, not you, you just think they should all get welfare and we'll all be hunky dory.......without realizing, the cycle starts all over again when that happens.

but..I want to discuss avocados! They're a pain in the ass to get here, because they're expensive, and not always very good (they are definitely taken far too soon from their trees, tbh). They're also definitely not a thing here, even though some people will tell you that they are (in the bigger cities people like to pretend to be hip, but they're not as good at "trending" as they think they are...I digress....), those people are lying, or just taking their cues from other places, I suppose. People do like them, of course, I do too, depending on how it's being used (my son and I could live off guac for days...ours is amazing 😛 ). But they'll never be very cheap here, and i'm lucky if I can get one for under $3. That's too much money on a single piece of fruit, when we need multiple pieces of this fruit per person to truly enjoy it, all of which will ripen when they're damn good and ready and never at the same time, and certainly not within the first few days after purchasing. Sometimes they'll go both good and bad in the same day even. We have weird avocados, I guess, we probably get all the misfits. I wouldn't mind if they weren't expensive. We have the same problem with milk (as in, it being expensive, not being unripe, lol), which is beyond ironic considering most milk in this state COMES from this state, and the increase in cost is most definitely not justified..sigh. This is why I need an indoor garden, or, a greenhouse if you wanna be a jerk about it So I can create an entire area to grow things not native to anywhere near here, and save a LOT of money doing it. I can grow things that work well here too, of course, and things that should grow well but don't for whatever reason, and also save money. Should that happen, I will also get a buttload (whose butt is yet to be determined) of professional quality freeze dryers, so we can have foods for eons....or partial eons anyway. ok, back to your topic now...it wasn't really a derail, just a penny on the track

My answer is actually pretty stupid, well, most people say it is.. My screen is adapted, so I can read it, and part of that includes cropping out a LOT of things and primarily leaving the text with little more. IF I want to see the lil pics on the side and names, the other side gets cropped off (if it's a real bad day, both do, and I can only tell who is saying what by quoting to find out), lol. Most of the time when I do react, it's because I've reloaded the page without adapting it, and the lil heart thingymabobby that you hover over to react, shows up, so then I can click it, if I can see it. I can't click what I can't see, though, so.. 99% of the time, I don't react, because I hate reloading the page without the adaptation (it's a process) in case there are new posts. I can't read them without adapting the page again, and it just adds another process into my whole reading process and it annoys the crap out of me. I'd rather respond than react. As much as I understand why people like the react buttons, they hold very little value compared to actual discussion for me. They also don't always accurately represent what people think they do, get misconstrued ALL the time here (I mean, we've had whole discussions about scorn laughing alone, have we not? lol). Sometimes I react, most of the time I don't, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I read what people have to say. I read pretty much everything, I laugh, I scorn, I raise an eyebrow...but I do it all in person, not in icon form 😛 If I could edit it, I'd probably actually remove those entirely, because I'm not convinced they serve the purpose people think they do..and I really hate the idea that people who don't give them are somehow giving posts less attention, or that people who do are giving the right attention I'm a mixed bag on those things, really I even give thumbs up in person, but none of ya ever see it, just hubby and then I get the "forums?" He thinks he's cute, and he's lucky he is 😛

This, every bit of this..

What on earth is wrong with you, that's the Eye of Sauron!! Or my cat when he's on way too much nip...slightly photoshopped.

No TLDR; 😛 There are some people that I am now convinced, after having spent several years (ok, way more than several) reading their posts on the forums, only come here because they like to argue, not because they actually have a valid point. Some of them do so under the guise of "helping others", or "offering a different perspective", mostly white knights, and at this point it is VERY clear that this is exactly what they do, nearly always. They just aren't very good at hiding it. They're also the same people who will later textually berate others, mostly without colorful language or barely sneaking on this side of "legal"(so to speak) as far as the TOS/community standards are considered, especially long after the fact with some weird kind of desire for vindication for past transgressions against them (but they can't tell you what those transgressions were) . Some of them just like to read their own words and have some of the most closed minds I have ever seen anywhere in the world, while pretending they don't. That's saying a lot, I work with people who are very close minded and I'd rather have a heated debate with them than some folks on the forums who annoy the living bejeebus out of me. I still converse with those formites, don't get me wrong, I just know to take damn near everything they say with a grain of salt (if even, usually I prefer to let it go in one ear and out the other, absorbing almost none of it, lol). I also tend to avoid acknowledging that they've spoken, they just don't usually realize it and keep posting as if people DO acknowledge it, which just kind of makes it entertaining, on a weird level, lol. Those people are the ones, for me, that really make forums, message boards...places, really uncomfortable. People who are overtly mean, controversial, and make it obvious, are far less of a problem...they're obvious and easy to ignore. I'm super not comfy with the faux protection they claim to offer others, the super weird white knighting that no one needs, no one asks for, and is super not helpful to anyone, especially the ones they aim it towards. That said, I still think they have their place here, if for no other reason, to show people why pretending to be a white knight and actually being a white knight, are not one in the same, and why the former (*I put latter, but meant former*) is very bad for any community. Most of the people they defend, don't need that defense, they tend to make things worse. There's one of them posting in this thread, still white knighting for all of us...and none of us asked for it (and it's not Pamela, white knight is something I wuld never cal her, she's one of the only people I've ever sen here actually try to see all sides of things, even when she doesn't agree with them....but I digress...I just wanted to add that, she tends to understand me better than some) Also....the vast majority of removed posts do absolutely NOT result in people leaving the forums...gtfo here with that kind of nonsense, lmao. A huge portion of the removed posts get removed because a thread does, or a thread gets derailed in a way not conducive to this forum and needs to be reigned back in, 99.99999999999999999999% of those removed posts never even lead to a warning, much less anything worse. Most of the people that leave forums do so because: they find no reason to be here anymore, they've moved on to other/different things, they get tired of everyone not agreeing with them or their nonsense, something heavy goes down and it brings the to the realization that they're being negatively affected...not because they "were censored". None of our forumites are really that sensitive or stupid, have some faith in your fellow forumites. Those that were banned, even temporarily, were banned for damn good reason, they pushed the envelope (more like set it on fire and threw it off a cliff) beyond just needing a warning, and they don't get my sympathy. We need the moderators to moderate those people., since we can't remove their posts and more often than not, no one really needs to read those. It takes quite a bit of bad crap to get yourself removed from here, or any of sl, really. I do think we need some moderation, because there are some people that don't self regulate very well, and we're always going to have those people. Although the TOS/Comunity standards really aren't a preventative measure, they're reactive, or a "what to do when something...X..happens", like any other rule or law. They all have their role, even if we don't like it. I also know these forums wouldn't really be moderated at all if it weren't for the members here, none of sl would, and that would be detrimental too. Do you really think the mods do any moderating here of their own accord? Of course they don't, they need us to tell them when something needs a look, because they've already said countless times, they don't really read the forums much (I thought that was common sense, they probably all have other jobs, and those take precedence, lol). So, yes, they need us to help moderate. I just actually am of the camp that believes the wrong people get moderated more often than not...I'd rather see some of the white knights I previously mentioned get moderated more, they're a detriment and cause more divides than most others, because they hide the controversy they cause, they're super annoying and they "pretend" to confront but really don't actually confront or even address actual issues, at all (but that might be more personal opinion than fact, probably, lol)

I read nearly every day, except when I take a break, and when I'm done with that break I play catch up. There are very few posts ever made on the forums (all of their incarnations) that I have not read to completion. I don't always participate, and sometimes I will go months, if not a god year or so, without ever saying a word...but I'm still reading. I read the forums because they can be pretty entertaining, fulfilling, interesting, a good way to stay (feel?) still connected with sl and its people...my people...even if they don't agree with that assessment . I like reading other perspectives, especially those I don't agree with (they're my fav), because it helps to: A-bolster my own opinions, B-keep my mind sharp, C-keep my mind open. At some point, reading is going to be an even bigger challenge than it is now, I'm not looking forward to that day, so I make good use of what I've got while I've got it. I read lots of things, and yes that does include cereal boxes and packaging, for no other reason than "I can". (I literally spent an hour just last night reading food labels for something, not because I had to, but because I could...I'm a lot bit weird) I also learn a LOT, about people, about sl, about other areas of the world, about all kinds of things, by reading the forums. I'm pretty fond of that aspect, as the fora of yesteryear, coupled with my incessant need to take things apart and learn how they work (breaking them included), is what drove me to learn how to build, create, script, animate...do all the stuffs one can do in sl. That's actually probably the most important aspect, aside from the people part, the ability to learn. Tutorials can't teach me nearly as much as other residents have, and I'm very grateful for that.

I do not currently own or rent land in sl. I used to rent land, both for my store and so that I could provide a place for others to enjoy, make a few lindens (like through fishing, money trees, camping, etc..), and I thoroughly enjoyed doing so. Now, it's not really a reasonable expense for me, so, I don't do it. Perhaps if it ever is again, I will, but I'm pretty fiscally responsible, so this is more of a pipe dream than it will ever be a reality in sl again for me. There are more important things to me than my own forms of virtual entertainment, and they take precedence, in all ways. If I had more money in rl, I would have no need to invest in anymore rl land, I already have a lot of acreage, lol. I would, however, invest a bit so I could make better use of the land I do have, make much needed repairs, and have the land work a bit better for me, my family and surrounding communities (there is a serious lack of things like food pantries, fresh fruits and veggies for those who are less financially sound, etc... in my area....as in, there are none). I would love to be able to have both an indoor and outdoor garden, plus availability of other resources (clothes, household goods, pet foods and care), so I could provide more for those that need it on constant and consistent basis. There are more who barely make ends meet than there are those who manage, and I am not particularly comfortable with suggesting it is all a product of fiscal irresponsibility, but rather a product of circumstance more often than not. I know struggling, and I know how most get to that point....the vast majority of people in this country are one emergency away from eventual destitution, even despite some of the best laid plans. I am actually working towards this goal, albeit it far more slowly than I would like, I am making strides, no matter how small, whenever possible, despite some serious wrenches being thrown into the works. People need help, and most of them probably aren't going to ask, many probably don't even know where or how to look, let alone ask, and that makes me very sad. Virtual entertainment doesn't seem nearly as important when I look at things from that perspective If I had more rl money I would most likely NOT invest it in sl, because...well ^ That's probably not where anyone intended this thread to go, but...eh

You absolutely CAN gift a gacha directly from the MP. The only limitation of gifting from the MP is $0L items (you can't gift those, unless that's changed since this morning..but I doubt it has lol) I gift gacha items to people all the time, directly form the MP, the same way I'd gift anything else.. "buy as gift" > enter the recipient name > enter a message in the lil box if I so desire> click finish, then check out (or continue shopping and adding items to my cart if I want). I literally gifted a handful of them just today

Definitely not alone. I like it well enough, when I make it myself, but...eh....I am no fan of any commercially available pizza, and by commercially I mean any pizza made anywhere that others can also get. I'll also include any pizza made anywhere by anyone but me. It all kinda sucks Pizza's just not all that. As for the NY vs Chicago , or vs anything else, I will never understand how anyone can compare them, to be honest, they're not even remotely the same, so it makes no sense whatsoever. Not even the sauces are comparable, much less anything else.

You are the first person I have found , in years, that actually remembers cheese discussions